So much for not charging subs for Makeb

[Phenyr]

http://www.swtor.com/buy

 

Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. Is all we ever hear from you bioware. 5 lvl cap increase and 1 planet is your definition of paid expansion bioware? Really?

 

 

Welcome to the era of mmorpg with DLC. We knew it will come to this

[MrSchmo]

Great topic and questions.

 

I'll pay for and xpac at this price any time if it has a planet and/or good content. I will NOT play over $10 for a mount or outfit even with stipend coins.

 

We have to vote with our wallets. The less we buy, the cheaper theyll get. That's probably why life day items are on sale already.

[CorellianWannabe]

I'm not sure what your point is, here - you're saying that Makeb will last longer than a movie, and will cost roughly the same... and that's a negative?

 

I'm saying that Bioware releasing almost no information about this non-expansion and expecting people to pay real money based on that non-information makes no sense (and posters claiming it's only $10 so pay blindly isn't much more comprehensible). At least with a movie you can see a trailer or two-even with a skewed idea of the plot you can see the cinematography and such, which can help determine if the film was competently made if nothing else.

[AlyxDinas]

They will adjust the prices when people are not willing to pay for them anymore. Nothing less and nothing more. If you think the item is too expensive....just don't buy it. Suddenly, everything is okay in the world. Edited December 19, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[RichT]

You already agreec it was free, it's too late to go back on that, but anyway that was what you were looking for earier.

 

It was free, now it's not. Whether you like/hate that is up to you, but they did say it was going to be free.

 

 

Which part of the video link "proof" used the word free? Im just not hearing it.

[CorellianWannabe]

Given, for the money ratio to time watched (or played) I'll play an MMO any day and since I never now how either one will turn out before paying, you'll understand my point VS your flawed analogy.

 

$30 for a nice meal also highly priced vs the time you actually get using the meal. Your original analogy is bogus at best.

 

 

So you never read film reviews, see trailers, etc.-you just walk in blindly and hope for the best? At least Bioware could release some information, given they have supposedly been working on this 'non-expansion content' for over 6 months. Instead blind faith and sending them $10 is apparently enough for some people.

 

I don't go out to eat-why pay so much for something that I know will be crap within 24 hours?

[Goretzu]

Yes, yes I did but I was there so that might make a difference.

Fair enough if you know more than Bioware EA employees about what is going to happen to the game, there's not much arguing with that.

 

Not really, that was thrown out to pander to the crowd. Again, all the reason to never tell the gamer anything if at all possible.

They don't need to tell us anything if you somehow already know.

[CorellianWannabe]

Which part of the video link "proof" used the word free? Im just not hearing it.

 

Bioware stated content updates would be free to subscribers. Ohlen stated Makeb was 'the biggest non-expansion content ever released'. As it is not an expansion but merely a content update, it should be free to subscribers.

[RichT]

Bioware stated content updates would be free to subscribers. Ohlen stated Makeb was 'the biggest non-expansion content ever released'. As it is not an expansion but merely a content update, it should be free to subscribers.

 

 

So....when I untwist that, basically they never stated Makeb would be free.

 

Ohlens statement was quite awhile ago, things change over time obviously. Could be as simple as Makeb has grown from what it was originally going to be into something more. They ARE calling it an expansion today...so we can either believe they're lying, or the product has grown.

 

Each will make up their own mind of course.

 

But noone can truthfully state that makeb was promised to be free. This is simply not true, it's an inference at best and depends highly on whether its considered a Patch vs Expansion.

Edited December 19, 2012 by RichT

[Herang]

its not about being cheap or what not , its about investing in the future of htis game and if it is worth the effort.

[Eldrenath]

Very valid points by the OP, and I very much agree. The prices in the cartel market are insane. I just re-subbed the other day. I was looking in the shop, and I was astounded at the prices. Pretty much 50% too high across the board. I'm sitting on about 1800 cartel coins (I got the bonus coins for previously subbed months, which was nice), but I have no intention of spending the coins, everything seems massively overpriced.

 

As some in this thread have said, vote with your wallet. I'd be much more inclined to spend my cartel coins and possibly even purchase more if I perceived that I was getting better value for my dollar. But at the moment, everything just seems hugely overpriced. Granted, I don't have any hard data about spending patterns in the shop. I can only speak for myself and the people I play with, and the general consensus among us is that the prices are significantly too high, and as a result we are not really willing to buy much of anything. For me personally, I can say that if prices were cut sharpy I'd be MUCH more likely to use the shop.

[kamed]

Well considering you can just save up your cartel coins, I don't see why you would want to pay for armor sets, when you can be patient and wait like 2 months to get it. The other alternative is to buy it off from the GTN, because someone is buying them in droves and supporting the pricing of the CM.

 

I only bought cartel packs. I also paid for the expensive character legacy unlocks (mount rank 2 & 3, Field repair 2 &3, Field Respec), because to be frank I'm too lazy to grind dailys to submission and farm credits. So they can have my money lol.

 

Oh and I also bought all the adaptable gear from the GTN for pittles.

Edited December 19, 2012 by kamed
added missing info

[sstanks]

So....when I untwist that, basically they never stated Makeb would be free.

 

Ohlens statement was quite awhile ago, things change over time obviously. Could be as simple as Makeb has grown from what it was originally going to be into something more. They ARE calling it an expansion today...so we can either believe they're lying, or the product has grown.

 

Each will make up their own mind of course.

 

But noone can truthfully state that makeb was promised to be free. This is simply not true, it's an inference at best and depends highly on whether its considered a Patch vs Expansion.

 

exactly things do change and they often have to go back on things they might have promised or said. EVERY MMO has done this at some point. Blizz has done this countless times with WoW and now even with Diablo 3 (PVP and kill animations come to mind).

 

Yet for some reason people wonder why Bioware doesn't tell them more.

[AlienEyeTX]

I am not writing this thread to start a complain-a-thon, seriously. I would just like a little feedback from the devs regarding their logic on the cartel market. Currently with the announcement of their new expansion at only $9.99 for subscribers and $19.99 for F2P players I have to ask myself why do items in the cartel market cost so much?

 

Lets look at the numbers... given the benefit of the doubt that consumers are buying the "Best Value" package at 5500 coins for 39.99. That means that each dollar is worth about 137 coins. So just to keep it simple lets leave it at that. Translate that into items on the market and lets look at the prices.

 

• 
  One armor set is 1200 coins which means at the "Best Price" it cost a player $8.76 ($13.20 at the highest price.)

• Your Life Day Mount at the "Best Price" cost a player about $13. 14.

• The new armor sets are 1440 coins which means that at the "Best Price" it cost the player $10.51

 

This is just a couple prices you can do the math for the rest if you truly desire on your own. My point is who is crunching the numbers in your office? How is it possible that you guys in management consider a EXPANSION with a whole new planet of epic voiced over stories, a level cap increase, and lots more information coming soon™ less valuable than a mount in the Cartel Shop?

 

Did it take you more man hours to create the armor and the mounts than it did the expansion? Seriously? I dont understand who is making these numbers up... In relation to each other the prices are totally out of whack and imply the the items on the Cartel Market are blatant money grabs if the expansion is only valued at $10.00.

 

What I am asking is that you guys at BioWare stop and take a serious look at what your putting out to your consumers. We are not blind we see these things. Would you please reconsider your pricing in the future because right now it seems like a horrible money grab aimed at players who desire some of the flash or new cool items. (Or even to players who are F2P who are getting nickeled and dimed at every corner.)

 

Right now the reason there seems to be so much unrest about the choices that are being made is that your Cartel Shop and launch of F2P was designed to draw in new players. Instead what it seems to have actually done is put off your loyal subscriber base that you have managed to keep by placing all the 'new' items into the Cartel Market instead of adding to the game and giving players cool things to achieve without having to dump money into your market.

 

PLEASE reconsider the choices you are making. We want the game to succeed but your not helping your own cause here.

 

Easy. They will sell more expansions than they will sell Life Day packs. The more they sell, the lower they can price it to offset the development cost.

[Kashley]

Easy. They will sell more expansions than they will sell Life Day packs. The more they sell, the lower they can price it to offset the development cost.

 

I would contend they would sell more packs if they lowered the price and upped the drop rate of some of the rares (note I did not say super rares) to a reasonable amount to entice players to buy. The problem with the shop now is people do not feel they are getting their monies worth. Thus the fuss. In fact I would say they only get to sell an expansion once whereas they can resell a pack over and over if you can entice the players. But as it stands now, they have put nothing in the shop that is worth the real money value they have placed on it, which is exactly why people are upset. Especially with how cheap the expansion is in comparison.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Kashley

[Shingara]

exactly things do change and they often have to go back on things they might have promised or said. EVERY MMO has done this at some point. Blizz has done this countless times with WoW and now even with Diablo 3 (PVP and kill animations come to mind).

 

Yet for some reason people wonder why Bioware doesn't tell them more.

 

even if things change on the size of it, not allowing subscribers to buy it with the cartel coins they are given for being subscribers is wrong and stinks of a money grab, bait and switch.

[AlienEyeTX]

I would contend they would sell more packs if they lowered the price and upped the drop rate of some of the rares (note I did not say super rares) to a reasonable amount to entice players to buy. The problem with the shop now is people do not feel they are getting their monies worth. Thus the fuss. In fact I would say they only get to sell an expansion once whereas they can resell a pack over and over if you can entice the players. But as it stands now, they have put nothing in the shop that is worth the real money value they have placed on it, which is exactly why people are upset. Especially with how cheap the expansion is in comparison.

 

If that is true, and it may well be, then we should see the price of Cartel items drop in a few months. The market is new and we have no idea how much money they are making off of it, currently.

[Rivid]

You know we were promised we won't get charged for it.....

It's not about price is about principle, they keep on promising us stuff then keep on backing out, it's infuriating.

 

take your principle to basement.

 

I WILL BUY I WILL TAKE IT!

[_Darkstar]

I think they have priced everything perfectly.

 

 

• The expansion is smaller than a WoW expansion, so is cheaper.
  
• The QoL items like UI mods and content unlocks are cheap, so as to entice free players to pay 'something'.
  
• The vanity items are expensive, because vanity costs money and for some people the fact that not everyone has it is a good thing, which actually adds value.
  

 

I don't actually think anything is too expensive, they seem to have got the prices just about right. Your real complaint is that you want this stuff, but you want it cheaper. That doesn't work in shops, and won't work here.

[kamed]

I would contend they would sell more packs if they lowered the price and upped the drop rate of some of the rares (note I did not say super rares) to a reasonable amount to entice players to buy. The problem with the shop now is people do not feel they are getting their monies worth. Thus the fuss. In fact I would say they only get to sell an expansion once whereas they can resell a pack over and over if you can entice the players. But as it stands now, they have put nothing in the shop that is worth the real money value they have placed on it, which is exactly why people are upset. Especially with how cheap the expansion is in comparison.

 

If I recall correctly, but I could be wrong, the devs specifically said that there would be "Rares" in the big packs and a chance for a "Super Rare" item. Blues are rare, but purples are even more rare, which everyone hopes would drop. If everyone got the Super Rare, what incentive would drive people to get the packs then?

 

Anyway, with the whole cartel pack thing, you will always have people that like it when they get the drop they want and hate it when they don't get the drops.

 

But I do agree with you on the stupid Life Day mount being too expensive for an ugly mount. I think the devs did that on purpose to kick the people who wanted a lore breaking holiday in Star Wars.

[Kashley]

I think they have priced everything perfectly.

 

 

• The expansion is smaller than a WoW expansion, so is cheaper.
  
• The QoL items like UI mods and content unlocks are cheap, so as to entice free players to pay 'something'.
  
• The vanity items are expensive, because vanity costs money and for some people the fact that not everyone has it is a good thing, which actually adds value.
  

 

I don't actually think anything is too expensive, they seem to have got the prices just about right. Your real complaint is that you want this stuff, but you want it cheaper. That doesn't work in shops, and won't work here.

 

My complaint is I want the pricing to make sense. In relation to each other it is extremely out of balance. I personally don't care for any of the items on the cartel market much less think they are worth the price tag stuck on them. However, I play with people who do like the items and I understand their frustration when they complain about the pricing. I cant reasonably explain why an armor set costs more than an expansion.

 

What I can question is why the chose to make people have to pay out the butt to customize a character, yet they charge barely anything for an epic story™ which is suppose to be the selling point of the game.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Kashley

[HeawiNobal]

http://www.swtor.com/buy

 

Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. Is all we ever hear from you bioware. 5 lvl cap increase and 1 planet is your definition of paid expansion bioware? Really?

 

= preordered.

Edited December 19, 2012 by HeawiNobal

[Invictos]

I think they have priced everything perfectly.

 

 

• The expansion is smaller than a WoW expansion, so is cheaper.
  
• The QoL items like UI mods and content unlocks are cheap, so as to entice free players to pay 'something'.
  
• The vanity items are expensive, because vanity costs money and for some people the fact that not everyone has it is a good thing, which actually adds value.
  

 

I don't actually think anything is too expensive, they seem to have got the prices just about right. Your real complaint is that you want this stuff, but you want it cheaper. That doesn't work in shops, and won't work here.

 

Ascribing motives to other people isn't a good way to make your argument. If you honestly believe that ~$15 for an outfit in a video game, restricted to a single character, is a fair and reasonable price, then that's your prerogative. All I can tell you is that I think you're insane, just based on my experience with other, similar markets in MMOs. Other games either have lower prices, or they sell account-wide items, or both. Vanity items are great, and I might even agree with your third bullet point if we were talking about a couple of isolated exceptions -- but the prices for cosmetic items in SWTOR are ridiculous pretty much across the board.

 

And I don't say that because OMG I want those items FOR CHEAP. I say it because I think EA is shooting itself in the foot. The reason that the F2P model works is that people are prone to spend little bits of money here and there without realizing (or consciously acknowledging) how much those purchases add up. When you slap a monthly fee on a service, by contrast, people tend to take that investment a little more seriously -- but when the "little bits" of money rise to a level comparable to the monthly fee, the customer's suspension of belief is broken. He or she starts to question what the hell the vendor is thinking.

 

Can I afford $15 for a set of pixelated Jedi robes? Sure. In absolute terms, $15 isn't a lot of money, but that's not a useful observation. Bill Gates could afford to spend a million dollars for a pack of gum, but that doesn't mean he'd want to do it. The relevant question is whether the product provides compelling value for the cost. It is in EA's best interest to find a price point that maximizes both the number of sales, and the profit per sale -- not just the latter at the expense of the former.

 

My feedback, as a subscriber to this game for most of the last year, is that EA would make more money if they reduced the cost of several items on the Cartel Market, most notably the ensemble armor sets. Your feedback is that the prices are fine. We'll see how things shake out.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Invictos

[Nemmar]

Vanity is expensive.

 

With that said i would be willing to buy more stuff if the prices were fair.

 

A color crystal was the most expensive thing i got, and i got it cause it was on discount.

[kamed]

If you think paying for $12 for a whole customizable outfit is bad. Try looking at other F2P games that charge for vanity items. If I can recall, Vindictus charges an arm and a leg just for underwear. That's right, just for underwear.

 

Whats more is that you have to pay dye outfits, get a certain look or unlock outfits. And its not cheap too, its somewhere around the $5 per dye, $10-20 per outfit and people horde those things too.