wwkingms Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) all in all sorc dmg is rather weak.. the only way to put up competative numebrs is to somehow void being attacked our dmg is bad, our survivability in group pvp is bad... its safe to say to takes immense skill to play this class successfully right now.. or u coudl roll a pt or mara and smash kids while alt tabbed Edited December 3, 2012 by wwkingms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Don't know where you got those numbers from but sure. I got them from my character sheet. I guess you don't know how to do basic math huh? Character sheet + Darkswell+ Entropic field = ??? 25.98+6= 31.98 + 25 = 56.98% damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Most damage in the game is mitigated by it. A fully geared sorc I don't think breaks 20%- meaning a smash that would hit for 10k hits for 8k damage. On someone with 40% mitigation though that's a 6k hit- if they use a defensive for 50% they'd take 5k. Being hit for 60% rather than 80% of damage makes a huge difference- when you take a 6k crit in heavy armour, that sorc beside you would take an 8k crit, and the operative would take around 6.8k. If a decent crit is 4k- you can take in WH gear one full extra crit as a heavy over a light armour without being healed. Every 20k damage you take getting to essentially cancel a decent crit on you is nothing to sneeze at- in fact, that's about how much health you get from a sorc bubble every 20 seconds if reapplied. OMG someone that understands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OMG someone that understands! logic would state that least dmg mitigation intake (sorc light armor) should be relative to dmg output mitigation, through internal dmg, however most of our dmg comes from our lightning tree which gets mitigated, crushing darkness as well is mitigated.. sorcs dont hit their enemies nearly as hard as they get hit. at 1250 expertise i got vicious thrown at for 5k+... a 5k execute from a class that lolsmashes for 7k is unecessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) OMG someone that understands! He's comparing tank-grade mitigation to a DPS character mitigation. Of course a tank in tank stance will get hit for less. My Marauder in Rage spec has only 2% less passive Kin/En mitigation than my Guard in Focus. Edited December 3, 2012 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 logic would state that least dmg mitigation intake (sorc light armor) should be relative to dmg output mitigation, through internal dmg, however most of our dmg comes from our lightning tree which gets mitigated, crushing darkness as well is mitigated.. sorcs dont hit their enemies nearly as hard as they get hit. at 1250 expertise i got vicious thrown at for 5k+... a 5k execute from a class that lolsmashes for 7k is unecessary Cant you lightning>wrath proc> death field> crushing darkness>shock>chain shock proc for a stupid amount of damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaxus Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What Xerain said. A lightning madness hybrid sorc can do a pretty serious amount of burst damage with the right use of procs and reckless. Two of my procs in rotation will do 4k each AOE to 3 and 5 targets. I have wiped entire groups defending a node in 3 hits from 35 to 40 percent health. Dumb teams for sure, but on voidstar at first door pillar, it is fairly common that I can force storm for a lightning storm proc then reckless chain lightning and death field for a 10k burst in 5s to at least three targets. Bioware, please don't buff sorc any... I like being one of the only ones good at it. Well, at least mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psirebral Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 What Xerain said. A lightning madness hybrid sorc can do a pretty serious amount of burst damage with the right use of procs and reckless. Two of my procs in rotation will do 4k each AOE to 3 and 5 targets. I have wiped entire groups defending a node in 3 hits from 35 to 40 percent health. Dumb teams for sure, but on voidstar at first door pillar, it is fairly common that I can force storm for a lightning storm proc then reckless chain lightning and death field for a 10k burst in 5s to at least three targets. Bioware, please don't buff sorc any... I like being one of the only ones good at it. Well, at least mediocre. Stop giving people a false image of what sorcerers can do, those numbers are almost completely imaginary. Fully min/max'd against BM and above, CL (in the hybrid spec) will only crit for 3k+ but never 4k, unless you're taking Reverberating Force and at that point it wouldn't even be considered a hybrid spec. I also doubt you wiped an entire group by yourself as even the most retarded people can spam CC on you while the others bang their head against the keyboard 'til your health is gone. The last example is entirely possible but... a warrior can do it with less build up and for 15k+ damage. I don't doubt you're a good sorcerer but saying that you just roll over everyone with your CL and DF is a bit far fetched. If you have proof to the above statements then I will respectfully retract my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Stop giving people a false image of what sorcerers can do, those numbers are almost completely imaginary. Fully min/max'd against BM and above, CL (in the hybrid spec) will only crit for 3k+ but never 4k, unless you're taking Reverberating Force and at that point it wouldn't even be considered a hybrid spec. I also doubt you wiped an entire group by yourself as even the most retarded people can spam CC on you while the others bang their head against the keyboard 'til your health is gone. The last example is entirely possible but... a warrior can do it with less build up and for 15k+ damage. I don't doubt you're a good sorcerer but saying that you just roll over everyone with your CL and DF is a bit far fetched. If you have proof to the above statements then I will respectfully retract my point. I see a few sorc pvp dps put up good numbers quite often. Sorcs like Ab there then there is Depreva, Thurinlore, and a few others my guildies talk about. Also I've dueled Thurinlore and he'll drop like 15k damage just randomly on you while running the hybrid spec. So no that's no inflated numbers at all. The warrior still takes Leap (1.5)>Crush(3)>7.5 seconds till the smash can go off... A little faster with choke, a little faster in mid combat but it's not all that fast :|. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) You have the most utility. You shouldn't have the most burst. What utility? *The bubble stun that most likely will get nerfed in the next class patch? Add to this that you have to sacrifice 17 or so points in a garbage tree to get it. *The 1 minute CD pull that is only useful in one warzone and can easily be replaced by a leap? *The offheals that take forever to cast, most likely will be interrupted and eat force? Also, troll face? Didnt catch that at first Edited December 3, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I got them from my character sheet. I guess you don't know how to do basic math huh? Character sheet + Darkswell+ Entropic field = ??? 25.98+6= 31.98 + 25 = 56.98% damage reduction. So counting cooldowns huh? Don't think that justifies enough that Sorc/Sage can stay at range while Shadow/Assassin has to be in melee range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Cant you lightning>wrath proc> death field> crushing darkness>shock>chain shock proc for a stupid amount of damage? on war hero targets... IF CRIT deathfield 2.5k-3.5k shock 1.5k-2.5k crushing darkness 1.5k.2k and dot chain shock proc? chain lightning i assume? Chain lightning -2k-2.5k all while being smashed for 5k-7k rail shotted for 4-6k, thermal for 4k, rail shot proc again for 4-6k maul spammed for 4.5k-5k ravaged for about 92829238k idk where this stupid dmg is u think sorcs have, all these classes we vs also have good defensive cooldowns whereas we have none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 your right madness/balance is nice have you play lightning/tk ? I don't find Lightning/TK viable in a warzone. Almost everything is channeled. Procs are too difficult to manage. If Wrath procs, you have plenty of time to find someone to use it on. Lightning's procs are too short. They often run out by the time you could use them. If I wasn't running Madness/Balance, I would run a hybrid using the root from Overload and stun bubble. That would offer some additional utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 on war hero targets... IF CRIT deathfield 2.5k-3.5k shock 1.5k-2.5k crushing darkness 1.5k.2k and dot chain shock proc? chain lightning i assume? Chain lightning -2k-2.5k all while being smashed for 5k-7k rail shotted for 4-6k, thermal for 4k, rail shot proc again for 4-6k maul spammed for 4.5k-5k ravaged for about 92829238k idk where this stupid dmg is u think sorcs have, all these classes we vs also have good defensive cooldowns whereas we have none You're a ranged class. If you know how to play you can perma-kite any melee. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You're a ranged class. If you know how to play you can perma-kite any melee. You must be confusing sorc to sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You must be confusing sorc to sniper. I've been perma-kited by Balance Sages before on my Shadow. I've even perma-kited other melee classes on my Balance Shadow. I'll admit that the kite ability compared to Sniper isn't as great but that's what sets the bad Sages/Sorcerers to the really good ones. The good ones kill you, the bad ones die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So counting cooldowns huh? Don't think that justifies enough that Sorc/Sage can stay at range while Shadow/Assassin has to be in melee range. The one is base armor then the other isn't really a cooldown, it's a proc that builds up pretty fast so you're running around with 31.98 damage reduction while in combat. And it's hard to get into melee range as an assassin?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) The one is base armor then the other isn't really a cooldown, it's a proc that builds up pretty fast so you're running around with 31.98 damage reduction while in combat. And it's hard to get into melee range as an assassin?! Didn't say that. It's quite easy to stay in melee range. But I'm not sure what people do on your server but usually the good players protect one another. And if they see an Assassin in the middle of 4-5 of them they usually just turn and melt his face. While a Sage/Sorcerer can stay at range and not have to worry about being in the melee distance threat. Oh and I can't see your links to the stuff you posted. Work blocks them. Edited December 3, 2012 by AMKSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 on war hero targets... IF CRIT deathfield 2.5k-3.5k shock 1.5k-2.5k crushing darkness 1.5k.2k and dot chain shock proc? chain lightning i assume? Chain lightning -2k-2.5k all while being smashed for 5k-7k rail shotted for 4-6k, thermal for 4k, rail shot proc again for 4-6k maul spammed for 4.5k-5k ravaged for about 92829238k idk where this stupid dmg is u think sorcs have, all these classes we vs also have good defensive cooldowns whereas we have none Maul spam what? You might get 3 if you get lucky and get a proc but it's drains your force way too fast to spam. Also yeah a good sorc can kite for quite some time. Most sorcs face tank... it's sad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psirebral Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I see a few sorc pvp dps put up good numbers quite often. Sorcs like Ab there then there is Depreva, Thurinlore, and a few others my guildies talk about. Also I've dueled Thurinlore and he'll drop like 15k damage just randomly on you while running the hybrid spec. So no that's no inflated numbers at all. The warrior still takes Leap (1.5)>Crush(3)>7.5 seconds till the smash can go off... A little faster with choke, a little faster in mid combat but it's not all that fast :|. Never did I say a sorcerer CAN'T put out numbers, what I said was that his chain lightning is not hitting for 4k, and he did not wipe an entire group in 3 shots. I also didn't say a smashers burst occurs instantly but rather, faster than the sorcerer's. Thank you for missing the point completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Didn't say that. It's quite easy to stay in melee range. But I'm not sure what people do on your server but usually the good players protect one another. And if they see an Assassin in the middle of 4-5 of them they usually just turn and melt his face. While a Sage/Sorcerer can stay at range and not have to worry about being in the melee distance threat. Oh and I can't see your links to the stuff you posted. Work blocks them. C'mon as deception it's not that hard to stay on top of someone to get two voltaics off then to shock and discharge if they get out of melee range. And yeah sometimes team set ups are stupid but you gotta for guards and that in pvp and switch targets if it's that big a problem... Build up procs on the guarded person, target switch to someone fast and blow them up. POT5... lots of scrubs in normals and yeah a good sage/sorc can stay ranged for quite a while but if you stealthy it up right you can blow them up quickly without them getting too much distance. Proxy for the links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Never did I say a sorcerer CAN'T put out numbers, what I said was that his chain lightning is not hitting for 4k, and he did not wipe an entire group in 3 shots. I also didn't say a smashers burst occurs instantly but rather, faster than the sorcerer's. Thank you for missing the point completely. Is it faster? like 7 second set up? 6-7 second set up? that's fast when other classes can burst out harder than that in that amount of time? Even one of the classes that has a smash spec can kill someone in 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 C'mon as deception it's not that hard to stay on top of someone to get two voltaics off then to shock and discharge if they get out of melee range. And yeah sometimes team set ups are stupid but you gotta for guards and that in pvp and switch targets if it's that big a problem... Build up procs on the guarded person, target switch to someone fast and blow them up. POT5... lots of scrubs in normals and yeah a good sage/sorc can stay ranged for quite a while but if you stealthy it up right you can blow them up quickly without them getting too much distance. Proxy for the links? I'm not saying it's not hard to stay in melee range and do damage. But an Assassin in the middle of a bunch of people spamming AoEs or protecting their healers as Assassin will go down much faster than a Sorcerer at range spamming abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm not saying it's not hard to stay in melee range and do damage. But an Assassin in the middle of a bunch of people spamming AoEs or protecting their healers as Assassin will go down much faster than a Sorcerer at range spamming abilities. That's any melee though. Good thing both the classes I play have 30% AOE damage reduction talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexlo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 This thread is going the "Do you even lift?" route. Never played Sorc DPS, too many ways to get interrupted. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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