I need to the top shadow tanks, ie Kitru

[Luxviridis]

I have done extensive research for the past month trying to figure out the optimal TTK statistics for my defenses. With no results! I really don't have time to download a spreadsheet program and learn how to use it and then plugin values etc.. I just became logistics captain of my guild and work full time. Anyways, I have read about 3 different methods with pluses and minuses as far as mitigation goes.

 

1 Go purely defensive 32% + and then balance shield and absorption.

2 Go purely for shield at 65% and absorb up to 60% with shield proc relic (up to 75% proccd). defense at 25%

3 **** defense all together and **** up to 67% shield and 69% absorb. defense at ~20%

(4) is a hybrid method of #2 on this list and stacking endurance up to 32k health

 

I will admit I am a fan of having 27k buffed and stimmed health. its just a comfort zone for me. So given the idea that i'm not going endurance crazy but might have a few fortitude augments thrown on, what is the best way for me manage my defensive stats? All accuracy or what? (kidding)

 

I have been leaning towards #2 simply because it seems balanced for all types of attacks and def isn't too high so as to make the high shield % less effective and absorb at 75% while prccd is very nice.

 

The reason i'm asking is because I just got to full 61+ with 2 piece DG from crafting and daily comms. I will be main tanking my guilds attempts at TFB HM and hopefully EC HM --> NiM progressions. I want to provide fully for my guild in being the anti-squish and although i do realize these methods are effective for different fights but given the current end game scenarios I would like to stay with one set of tank gear and provide a decent general mitigation for these fights. (of course i do have the clickable Dread Guard relic to sub for either my WH defense relic or Dread Guard absorb proc relic during specific fights)

 

I really appreciate your help. (and yes i do not have time for spreadsheet creation but i do have time to color words throughout my posts.)

[Kitru]

I will admit I am a fan of having 27k buffed and stimmed health.

 

Call me a freak, a rebel, or a crazy person, but, with stim, I only have 24k hp. I've never had a problem tanking anything, and I actually end up getting a lot of compliments from healers that I'm cake to heal (though my low hp mostly stems from using Resolve hilts and armorings which make the DPS I run with love me because my threats are amazing).

 

As to gearing mentalities, I balance Defense and Absorb (Shield doesn't compete with Defense or Absorb on itemization) with a slight emphasis on Defense (because I pack the proc Absorb relic and it works better when your absorb is slightly lower thanks to DR). I'm currently packing ~500 Defense Rating, ~550 Shield rating, and ~450 Absorb rating (without using a passive relic or factoring in the proc relic). Essentially, I maximize my Shield Rating and try to balance my Defense and Absorb ratings with a slight advantage to Defense.

[Luxviridis]

Thanks for the epically fast response!

 

Anyways, do you have an askmrrobot.com profile that i've simply not been able to find? Or do you like that your gear is unbeknownst to me?

 

After putting together the numbers you presented, I think for the first time it actually makes sense.

 

Thanks

[Kitru]

Anyways, do you have an askmrrobot.com profile that i've simply not been able to find? Or do you like that your gear is unbeknownst to me?

 

I'm lazy and AMR requires I got through and specifically select each and every single piece of gear, armoring, mod, enh, and augment, pretty much all of which are tweaked on my character. It's not out of any need for secrecy: it's because I just don't see much point in it.

[Luxviridis]

I guess i'm just QQing because I spent time on many facets of the internet looking for specific people's gear yours included.

 

I even saw your post from early this year about stacking defense to the MAXX with a 4:3:2 or 5:4:3 ratio but i figured things have changed a bit and had to ask again. lolol. After all, noxxic was leading me down the wrong path for a while. Thanks for you input.

[KeyboardNinja]

My current stats are min-maxed as closely as I can for ideal survivability, with about 60% DG mods, a DG relic, a WH relic, one DG implant. I take into account the accuracy debuff when computing ratios (assuming only a shadow/guardian, no vanguard) and an exotech stim. Here you go:

 

• HP: 26578 (odd note: the game appears to be rounding HP *up* post-1.5. I'm assuming this is a bug)
  
• Armor: 40.55% (another odd note: the game literally gave me 0.3% more DR in 1.5. I've no idea where it came from)
  
• Defense: 30.16%
  
• Shield: 65.10% (with KW)
  
• Absorb: 60.15%
  

 

AMR profile is here (out of date, I'll update it as soon as I have time): http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6d0035cb-8938-4f38-8073-e75392f0b410

 

My overall weighted survivability (i.e. percentage of incoming damage that the healers do *not* have to mend) on current content (EC, NmP, TfB) is 78.1141%, counting all buffs, debuffs, procs and the self-heal with an optimized TkT-delay rotation.

 

With this build, my stat weights are as follows:

 

• Defense: 0.0930631
  
• Shield: 0.0887465%
  
• Absorb: 0.940962%
  
• Endurance: 0.907519%
  

 

As you can see, Endurance is actually starting to look mighty tempting from a purely survivability standpoint due to its contribution to the self-heal. With that said, I would only take it if it were pragmatically the ideal route to higher survivability. Time To Kill is an entirely overrated metric in TOR. Seriously. Bosses hit like a wet noodle, and so the "worst case scenario" involves nearly 20 seconds of bad luck and will only happen (on average) once or twice a week. I have a hard time justifying gearing for that scenario. I prefer to gear myself to make life easier on my healers in the average case while ensuring that I have sufficient health buffer to absorb mistakes. From a statistical standpoint, even 20k HP would be more than ample as a mistake-absorbing buffer on all current content (including Nightmare EC). 26k is just overkill and bordering on a vanity stat.

Edited November 29, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

[Guidotti_Machine]

I'm in nearly all 63's. Don't have my stats off the top of my head, but generally speaking (while stimmed) I am around

 

30.5% def (low 500s rating)

65% shield (with rocks)

60.5% absorb (high 500s rating)

27.5 ish health

 

I've main tanked everything in the game except for Kephess on NM EC (only because he haven't downed him yet).

I've run numerous combat logs against the Guardians/Vanguards in my guild. Generally speaking, the difference in damage in is nominal - maybe 15 DPS difference on 800 something or so. The main difference is the fact that I generally average about 100 heals per sec give or take. This always makes me come out on top if you subtract that from the DPS in. If you were to trade out the high defensive stat mod/enhance for the high endurance, sure your HPS may jump up a bit, but in reality, i'd rather avoid an extra big hit than have 6 more HPS over the course of the fight.

 

I don't like the idea of maxing out any of the stats to be honest - I always liked the idea of a balance of everything. By the time you are in full 63 mods, you are so far into the DR area, that it's really up to you and what you feel to determine which way you want to go. The last time I did the math and analyzed the fight, I noted that defense was worth more to me than abs was at this point. This was different from vanguards/guards because of the flat dmg reduction they got from heavy armor. Basically, an avoid meant WAY more to a shadow than it did to any other tank. If we get hit past shield, it hurts pretty bad.

[Thorriin]

Bosses hit like a wet noodle

 

Care to specify which bosses? Because Kephess NiM hits like a *********** truck. I wouldn't call it a "wet noodle".

 

 

 

PS: Sorry for changing the subject.

[KeyboardNinja]

Care to specify which bosses? Because Kephess NiM hits like a *********** truck. I wouldn't call it a "wet noodle".

 

PS: Sorry for changing the subject.

 

I don't have numbers for EC Nightmare yet. My assertion was based on every other boss in current content (HM EC/TfB and NP). With the exception of Kephess, bosses in Nightmare EC do hit harder than HM, but not by a whole lot (~15-20%). That's still nearly 50% less damage on the tank than you see in Nightmare KP, just for reference. As for Kephess, yeah… He does seem to hit disproportionately hard (trenchcutters anyone?). Once I get numbers for all the fights, we'll have to see if it has a significant impact on my survivability model.

Edited December 1, 2012 by KeyboardNinja

[Kajuana]

Call me a freak, a rebel, or a crazy person, but, with stim, I only have 24k hp. I've never had a problem tanking anything, and I actually end up getting a lot of compliments from healers that I'm cake to heal (though my low hp mostly stems from using Resolve hilts and armorings which make the DPS I run with love me because my threats are amazing).

 

As to gearing mentalities, I balance Defense and Absorb (Shield doesn't compete with Defense or Absorb on itemization) with a slight emphasis on Defense (because I pack the proc Absorb relic and it works better when your absorb is slightly lower thanks to DR). I'm currently packing ~500 Defense Rating, ~550 Shield rating, and ~450 Absorb rating (without using a passive relic or factoring in the proc relic). Essentially, I maximize my Shield Rating and try to balance my Defense and Absorb ratings with a slight advantage to Defense.

 

This is something close to what Kitru and some of the others on this forum says.

 

30% / 65% / 60% / 24K hp

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/d840353d-f4b1-4d28-b462-6f76ba9818c4

Change anything and your stats dip below.

 

Full 63s will give you more hp, but I have reservations on whether this will give another 3K-4K hp.

I certainly like to see links from others. (pls update Keyboardninja!)

[Assillius]

63 modded

28k hp

29% def

67% shield

61% absorb + passive relic which gives in average 65-66%

wh def + comp passive shield relics

 

preffere 41 power for agro than useless extra 300 hp from DG

[KeyboardNinja]

preffere 41 power for agro than useless extra 300 hp from DG

 

If you were a vanguard or a guardian, then I'd totally agree with you. However, you're a shadow, and a *huge* chunk of your survivability comes from your self-heal, most of which is determined by a function of your HP. For this reason, endurance is actually super-useful. Once you get into full 63s, 18 points of Endurance provides exactly the same survivability benefit as 18 points of defense or absorb. (this is assuming you're using the no-thrash rotation)

[dipstik]

lol

 

you are not going to find consensus here.

 

i have always suggested a balanced build that uses the high endurance versions of the mods and use the augments for mitigation stats. for your reference:

 

a 1300 mitigation pool build (where shield rating plus defense rating pplus absorb rating equals 1300) will make it so on a boss that delivers 2000 incoming dps (if I understand keyboard ninja's assetions correcly and this is not post mitigation damage) you will take about 270 damage per second, have a health pool of 32k, and be able tio survive without heals for 119 seconds. at a 1800 build gives 231 dps taken, a health pool of 27k, and you can survive for 117 seconds.

 

so you can save your healer the trouble of healing you for 40dps if you get more mitigation, but you have a little mlonger youn can survive without a heal with the max HP build.

 

I can tell you from a healing perspecive that healing a max HP shadow feels like throwing force down the drain. remember that every HP is worth more for a max mitigation build from a healing perspective. from a self heals perspective the opposite is true.

 

with all that said, I go for a 30/45/60 build.

Edited December 4, 2012 by dipstik

[Assillius]

disagree. if u will loose agro at least for second it may coz some heart attak for healers which is totally unnessecery. and i hate to waste my aoe taunt to pick up boss back again coz it may needed somewhere a bit later.

build my rotation for high survival + dps enough to keep agro without aoe taunt and still carry any sentinel without guard with 2k+ dps

[KeyboardNinja]

Full 63s will give you more hp, but I have reservations on whether this will give another 3K-4K hp.

I certainly like to see links from others. (pls update Keyboardninja!)

 

My AMR profile is updated now: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6d0035cb-8938-4f38-8073-e75392f0b410 You'll notice though that it claims I only have 25% defense chance. This appears to be stemming from a bug in AMR (it also thinks I no longer have my set bonus). Finally, there is a bug in the current version of the game (since 1.5) which rounds HP *up* (everything else in the game is rounded half-over), so AMR's HP calculation is usually 1-short.

[Kitru]

Anyways, do you have an askmrrobot.com profile that i've simply not been able to find? Or do you like that your gear is unbeknownst to me?

 

I actually put together my optimal gear setup, and it was beautifully simple: Mk-1 Earpiece, Mk-2 Implants, Proc relic, Defense use relic, all armoring/hilt as Resolve, all enhs as Bastion (high Shield w/ Defense), and all mods as Robust unlettered. I also use Power crystals because I like threat more than a tiny bit of extra hp.

 

With exotech stim, it'll put you at just shy of 25k hp (just 4-5 hp short, in fact) with 532 shield rating, 600 shield rating, and 516 absorb rating (just above 30% def, above 65% shield, and above 58% absorb). On top of that, you'll be packing 1826 Willpower for monumental threat generation. The only reason I'm using the Bastion enhs is because there isn't a Sturdiness 27 or Immunity 27 (and that makes me sad).

 

That's gearing up the Kitru way in case you're curious.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Kitru

[Kajuana]

My AMR profile is updated now: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/6d0035cb-8938-4f38-8073-e75392f0b410 You'll notice though that it claims I only have 25% defense chance. This appears to be stemming from a bug in AMR (it also thinks I no longer have my set bonus). Finally, there is a bug in the current version of the game (since 1.5) which rounds HP *up* (everything else in the game is rounded half-over), so AMR's HP calculation is usually 1-short.

 

Thanks KeyboardNinja!

So you actually have 30% def? Isn't that a big buff? -,-

 

Kitru, you are too much of a signature to not have an AMR profile!

Edited December 5, 2012 by Kajuana

[Kitru]

Kitru, you are too much of a signature to not have an AMR profile!

 

I've got one *now*, but that's mostly because I finally sat down and put together all mods and whatnot (kinda like I finished off the last 4 planets of datacrons I haven't touched in 10 months because I finally felt like doing it). You can check it out if you want.

[KeyboardNinja]

Thanks KeyboardNinja!

So you actually have 30% def? Isn't that a big buff? -,-

 

It's nice to have, that's for sure. I do hate being so on the edge w.r.t. diminishing returns though. My defense has gone up by like 5% in the time that my absorb has gone up by 2%.