Random idea on class balance.

[fungihoujo]

This is why I ignore you half the time...

 

We weren't even talking about marauders... what are even talking about?

 

This is a thread about class balance and I only used marauder changes as an example because it's a comparison I'm familiar with. The idea is about balancing ALL classes.... stop trying to make every thread a nerf marauder thread simply because you STILL don't know how to counter them.

 

And this is why we all ignore you- interested in nothing more than marauder dominance- really, that's still the reason why you think anyone complains about marauders, solely that people don't know how to counter them?

 

This is exactly what everyone is saying- that any time you try to talk balance with a marauder they become volatile and hostile.

 

You used marauders as an example, I answered- you used level 50 vs pre-50 balance and talked about how you prefer gear to win over a no gear advantage system, I said why I disagree.

 

Ultimately this is just you getting mad that I'm saying things you don't want me to be saying. If you don't want to talk about marauder balance- maybe you should avoid telling people that the reason they aren't on par with marauders is because they suck- that's avoiding talking balance because you know if you talk balance, it won't look pretty for the class you've grown used to dominating with.

[UGLYMRJ]

And this is why we all ignore you- interested in nothing more than marauder dominance- really, that's still the reason why you think anyone complains about marauders, solely that people don't know how to counter them?

 

This is exactly what everyone is saying- that any time you try to talk balance with a marauder they become volatile and hostile.

 

You used marauders as an example, I answered- you used level 50 vs pre-50 balance and talked about how you prefer gear to win over a no gear advantage system, I said why I disagree.

 

Ultimately this is just you getting mad that I'm saying things you don't want me to be saying. If you don't want to talk about marauder balance- maybe you should avoid telling people that the reason they aren't on par with marauders is because they suck- that's avoiding talking balance because you know if you talk balance, it won't look pretty for the class you've grown used to dominating with.

 

I'm annoyed because you are changing the subject. This is a thread about an idea to balance ALL classes and does not pertain to any class specifically. I used marauders as an example since it was one of the most recent changes that is a specific example that relates to my idea... it was an example... not a subject.

 

Most actually don't ignore me since I often create constructive threads and make constructive comments... versus what you do which is turn every thread possible into a nerf marauder thread. You started off constructive and then eventually went back to old habits... marauder QQ.

 

And the only thing I'm mad at is the fact that I can't help but reply to your distracting comments.

Edited November 28, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[fungihoujo]

I'm annoyed because you are changing the subject. This is a thread about an idea to balance ALL classes and does not pertain to any class specifically. I used marauders as an example since it was one of the most recent changes that is a specific example that relates to my idea... it was an example... not a subject.

 

Most actually don't ignore me since I often create constructive threads and make constructive comments... versus what you do which is turn every thread possible into a nerf marauder thread. You started off constructive and then eventually went back to old habits... marauder QQ.

 

And the only thing I'm mad at is the fact that I can't help but reply to your distracting comments.

 

I could say the same for you- I was surprised you were able to remain civil this long before 'you are just bad and don't know how to counter marauders' became your answer.

 

I didn't even bring up marauders to you- I brought it up to ultra pro-marauder ******e Xerain's typical one liner appearance he has to give everytime someone who isn't him starts talking balance- if he's going to come in here and have his only addition to the conversation be 'you guys talking balance are a bunch of scrubs' I'm not just going to ignore him- and seeing as I've been at odds with him for months, I'm well aware he eats, sleeps and romances nothing but marauder every waking moment of his day.

 

Then you fly off the handle on a comment I made that had NOTHING to do with marauders- it was solely about RWZ balance versus pre-50 pvp, and how if you want to look at class balance- you should be looking at making RWZ balanced, which isn't even something you disagree with as far as I know so I don't get what got you so volatile there...

 

So- I gave you what you wanted- a conversation on marauders. Yes, I feel bad for being baited into it- but ultimately that seems to be what it always comes down to with you and Xerain. You can keep insulting me all you want- but you know the only people who are having a big issue with me are other marauders, and people who want large gear differences in pvp.

 

And look- you're still insulting me, saying 'I am constructive, but you don't say anything constructive'- and ultimately it comes down to not whether I'm constructive or not- but that what I'm saying is against the class you play.

 

Right now though- all we're doing is you're calling me bad for saying things, and I'm defending what I'm saying- it ends up being a pointless conversation and we both know it's only going to end when either I accept being insulted as the last word and move on, or you stop with the passive aggressive 'marauders beat you because you are bad' nonsense.

Edited November 28, 2012 by fungihoujo

[Lexlo]

[Assume all the boxes are balanced, classes are as balanced as they will ever be, etc.]

 

This creates two problems:

 

1. How do they introduce new abilities or skills?

-MMO Developers tend to add abilities to classes over time to freshen up classes or give them something new to learn/master. How will players react to these skills being nerfed/buffed when they PvP but not PvE and vice versa?

 

2. How do players learn to play if their skills in trees have different functions?

- Naturally, most players would answer with "L2P". Indeed, it would certainly be my answer in this case.

 

However, as a business, a game developer will find that is not an answer that leads to a lot of profit. Games that have a higher learning curve (or higher difficulty) than popular games have a harder time meeting profits -- no matter how "good" they are. The trick is to make the gameplay easy to understand, but fun to master.

 

 

That said, I would certainly like two different trees. There are skills that would be overpowered in PvP, that I would like to see in PvE, and vice versa. Give us the option!

[UGLYMRJ]

[Assume all the boxes are balanced, classes are as balanced as they will ever be, etc.]

 

This creates two problems:

 

1. How do they introduce new abilities or skills?

-MMO Developers tend to add abilities to classes over time to freshen up classes or give them something new to learn/master. How will players react to these skills being nerfed/buffed when they PvP but not PvE and vice versa?

 

2. How do players learn to play if their skills in trees have different functions?

- Naturally, most players would answer with "L2P". Indeed, it would certainly be my answer in this case.

 

However, as a business, a game developer will find that is not an answer that leads to a lot of profit. Games that have a higher learning curve (or higher difficulty) than popular games have a harder time meeting profits -- no matter how "good" they are. The trick is to make the gameplay easy to understand, but fun to master.

 

 

That said, I would certainly like two different trees. There are skills that would be overpowered in PvP, that I would like to see in PvE, and vice versa. Give us the option!

 

1. Try to make those abilities as balanced as possible or balance current issues, tweak from there.

 

2. The trees would be essentially the same... only abilites would react differently. While the same point in a certain spec would add maybe 3% damage in a PvP tree but maybe only 2% in the PvE tree. The way I see it... rotations wouldn't change any more than they do now with the transition from PvE to PvP or vice versa.

 

And indeed... the answer is always L2P and nerf operatives... on all trees.

[Mancer]

And the only thing I'm mad at is the fact that I can't help but reply to your distracting comments.

 

He is trolling you MRJ as I know you are aware of, just let the child be.

[UGLYMRJ]

He is trolling you MRJ as I know you are aware of, just let the child be.

 

You're a good man Mancer... I need the reality check sometimes.

 

I hate that while I'm typing I know I'm wasting my time...

 

 

[Mancer]

You're a good man Mancer... I need the reality check sometimes.

 

I hate that while I'm typing I know I'm wasting my time...

 

 

 

Exactly, keep rolling out the sweet threads, they make my day go by!

[fungihoujo]

[Assume all the boxes are balanced, classes are as balanced as they will ever be, etc.]

 

This creates two problems:

 

1. How do they introduce new abilities or skills?

-MMO Developers tend to add abilities to classes over time to freshen up classes or give them something new to learn/master. How will players react to these skills being nerfed/buffed when they PvP but not PvE and vice versa?

 

2. How do players learn to play if their skills in trees have different functions?

- Naturally, most players would answer with "L2P". Indeed, it would certainly be my answer in this case.

 

However, as a business, a game developer will find that is not an answer that leads to a lot of profit. Games that have a higher learning curve (or higher difficulty) than popular games have a harder time meeting profits -- no matter how "good" they are. The trick is to make the gameplay easy to understand, but fun to master.

 

 

That said, I would certainly like two different trees. There are skills that would be overpowered in PvP, that I would like to see in PvE, and vice versa. Give us the option!

 

Well- again, if they focus on buffs/nerfs to defensives, CC and mobility you can have little to no change in how it effects nightmare operations. Not that pvp and pve specific trees would be a bad thing- but it would be something new to the game and I don't think they'll bother with it for that reason.

 

Adding some interrupt protection, giving or taking away CC, changing the CDs on abilities, or adding defensives are all things they have done though- and can be done without any new abilities.

 

For example- putting a root on force slow- so that a class that's supposed to be the best kiting class is not longer one of the only classes that doesn't have a single baseline root (makes sense, don't it). Making force speed ignore roots at baseline- which considering roots ignore resolve because they're called 100% immobilizes, it should already.

 

Those are just examples- but it can be applied to any class (I'll avoid talking marauders since it'll just derail the thread again). For example. For mercs- having some abilities that simply can't be interrupted, adding a CC break to a defensive.

 

Things that all wouldn't touch pve- but could help some classes a little bit.