CaptRavenous Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Everyone is a critic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 If it stopped there, you can call it classic fairy tale. But did it? No. There were two more chapters of the fairy tale, even if the third part was really just a re-write of the first. And then.... It became a geo-political thriller that made no sense at all. And a teen coming of age story that made you want to kill the hero yourself just to make him shut up. And a mystery where the highly secret mystery character was known beforehand by 90% of the population of the Earth. And a war movie with military tactics so stupid, Army Ants called it dumb. And a comedy with a racist cartoon rabbit. And a love story with actors who had zero chemistry. And an action movie with action so far over the top that it made Superman look a farmboy from Tattoine. Etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillianS Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 how many different stories are there? hero saves world/galaxy/girl/whatever a great sacrifice is made a mystery is solved there are certainly a few more that dont come to mind at the moment in reality every story ever told is just a rehash of a very small number of root stories indeed humans are less creative than they first apear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendaric Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Even LotR's plot share some similarity with the ancient hero epics. Such as The With King's fall is similar to Macbeth, Aragorn is similar to many great heroes like king Arthur. Which is mainly due to Tolkien taking his inspirations from ancient epics, especially Beowulf (which he also translated from anglo-saxon to modern english). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 No. There were two more chapters of the fairy tale, even if the third part was really just a re-write of the first. And then.... It became a geo-political thriller that made no sense at all. And a teen coming of age story that made you want to kill the hero yourself just to make him shut up. And a mystery where the highly secret mystery character was known beforehand by 90% of the population of the Earth. And a war movie with military tactics so stupid, Army Ants called it dumb. And a comedy with a racist cartoon rabbit. And a love story with actors who had zero chemistry. And an action movie with action so far over the top that it made Superman look a farmboy from Tattoine. Etc. etc. Oh really? Sure RotJ got a Death Star, but there is a lot of characterization. Luke realized the villain was his father, and Obi Wan was lying to him. He was told to destroy his father but could not do it, this also slowly awoke his father's good side. Under the Emperor and his father's taunt, he was close to the Dark Side, but didn't fall like his father because he saw there was his father, and his action finally let his father returned to the lightside and threw the Emperor off, saved his son. I agree post RotJ Luke is a bit overpowered and endless conflicts are boring. I respect Tolkien but it's not his characterization is perfect, it was 50 years ago, his characters in LotR now seems a bit too black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Even LotR's plot share some similarity with the ancient hero epics. Such as The Witch King's fall is similar to Macbeth, Aragorn is similar to many great heroes like king Arthur. Norse and Celtic mythology to be exact. Edited November 27, 2012 by MorgonKara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The lore is full of regular people beating Jedi, we just don't see it much because the force sensitive is often the main character or primary antagonist and Lucas is a bad writer. Umm the reason is the same as not seeing much people stopping bullets with their teeth. It's RETARDED and unbelievable. The EU is also a worthless source for any argument that involves reason because it's riddled with BAD writers, BAD stories and plots that make as much sense as wearing ice skates to a beach in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Umm the reason is the same as not seeing much people stopping bullets with their teeth. It's RETARDED and unbelievable. The EU is also a worthless source for any argument that involves reason because it's riddled with BAD writers, BAD stories and plots that make as much sense as wearing ice skates to a beach in the summer. Why can't Jedi Master/Sith Lord be killed by strong non Force users? They are powerful but no invincible for sure. The movie also clearly showed it. Such as Jango killed a council member, the masters got killed in Order 66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Umm the reason is the same as not seeing much people stopping bullets with their teeth. It's RETARDED and unbelievable. The EU is also a worthless source for any argument that involves reason because it's riddled with BAD writers, BAD stories and plots that make as much sense as wearing ice skates to a beach in the summer. The force isn't god mode. Jango Fett killed twelve Jedi on Geonosis, and that's not EU. Darth Vader(y'know, the Chosen One and one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever) got put out of commission by a mundane by the name of Han Solo in the very first Star Wars movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) I would just also like to add that this discussion about originality is stupid, plain and simple. Every conceivable theme and over-arching plot has been conceived at the time of the ancient greeks. I mean, even the writing style taught in schools is from those times. Which, of course, was imported from Egypt. Though most like to skim over that minor detail. Edited November 27, 2012 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The force isn't god mode. Jango Fett killed twelve Jedi on Geonosis, and that's not EU. Darth Vader(y'know, the Chosen One and one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever) got put out of commission by a mundane by the name of Han Solo in the very first Star Wars movie. You probably should read back to what the actual conversation was about. I specifically said that an instance where there is no element of surprise nor any other advantage, just a straight up face to face fight. Like you have in Corellia, 3 times, against people that rank among the most powerful Sith of their time. You are talking about something COMPLETELY irrelevant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Who is Mary Sue and how did she get into every story?? Inquiring mines want to know!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 You probably should read back to what the actual conversation was about. I specifically said that an instance where there is no element of surprise nor any other advantage, just a straight up face to face fight. Like you have in Corellia, 3 times, against people that rank among the most powerful Sith of their time. You are talking about something COMPLETELY irrelevant here. Who said powerful Force users must win in face to face fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Who is Mary Sue and how did she get into every story?? Inquiring mines want to know!!! Why not google it? You would get the answer faster and as detailed as you wish. Oh, right, you were trying to be funny... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Who said powerful Force users must win in face to face fight? Something that is obviously absent to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addaib Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Bobba Fett beat Vader. Twice. Cad Bane held off two Jedi at the same time, and would of won if not for plot armor. HK-49 describes in detail how a regular person could defeat a jedi. Infact, he said non force sensitive people are, in many cases, the best people for the job if properly trained. The lore is full of regular people beating Jedi, we just don't see it much because the force sensitive is often the main character or primary antagonist and Lucas is a bad writer. Nope. It's all because of this, not bad writing or plot holes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Even the movie never showed Force users are invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Who said powerful Force users must win in face to face fight? Because if your internal logic states that force users are immune to modern weaponry, and then they suddenly aren't... it falls apart. Being able to block laser beams with a melee weapon is "god mode" immunity. If you can react faster than light, you are a god. You can get away with a character or two (Luke, Vader) being gods. This is standard sci-fi convention. You get one or two massive leaps of logic for free. Trying to explain those leaps of logic or expanding them to entire armies of god-like beings is what is known as jumping the shark. It's when your universe collapses on its own ridiculousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I like it. In other MMOs your character is just a regular scrub. It's nice being the main character for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Because if your internal logic states that force users are immune to modern weaponry, and then they suddenly aren't... it falls apart. Being able to block laser beams with a melee weapon is "god mode" immunity. If you can react faster than light, you are a god. You can get away with a character or two (Luke, Vader) being gods. This is standard sci-fi convention. You get one or two massive leaps of logic for free. Trying to explain those leaps of logic or expanding them to entire armies of god-like beings is what is known as jumping the shark. It's when your universe collapses on its own ridiculousness. Except blasters are "magnetically projected plasma" not light. If you can actually perceive the shot in motion it's not moving anywhere close to the speed of light. Edited November 27, 2012 by MorgonKara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Because if your internal logic states that force users are immune to modern weaponry, and then they suddenly aren't... it falls apart. Being able to block laser beams with a melee weapon is "god mode" immunity. If you can react faster than light, you are a god. No, they are not. They could defend against blasters much better than other but still has a limit. The Mandaloirans even invented a shooting style against Jedi, this style let the Jedi have difficulty to anticipate the attack. Even in the movie, Ki-Adi-Mundi, a veteran council member was killed quickly by the clone troopers even though he tried to block the attacks. Vader could block Han's attack because his cyborg hand was made to block such blast. You can get away with a character or two (Luke, Vader) being gods. This is standard sci-fi convention. You get one or two massive leaps of logic for free. Trying to explain those leaps of logic or expanding them to entire armies of god-like beings is what is known as jumping the shark. It's when your universe collapses on its own ridiculousness. Again it's not leaps of logic, it's explained well enough in the EU and showed in the movie as well, just some people chose to ignore it. Edited November 27, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Even the movie never showed Force users are invincible. Again you use the term "force user" when that's not what you are arguing against! Do you not comprehend what is being said? Just a force user means nothing compared to one of the most powerful Sith of the time. You remember that guy in tython that couldn't lift that tiny rock? You are saying that fighting him is the same thing as fighting Satele. It's complete nonsense and has no bearing on what I'm ACTUALLY saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Except blasters are "magnetically projected plasma" not light. This is what is know as a railgun. A mass is accelerated so fast that it ceases to be matter and turns into energy. Regardless, blocking an arrow with a sword is impossible, a bullet moreso. A railgun is shooting its projectile far, far, far faster than any bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Also, the Mandalorian War was introduced in the TOR website, even if you never know anything before you should know. They are not force users but made HUGE threat to the Jedi and the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Again you use the term "force user" when that's not what you are arguing against! Do you not comprehend what is being said? Just a force user means nothing compared to one of the most powerful Sith of the time. You remember that guy in tython that couldn't lift that tiny rock? You are saying that fighting him is the same thing as fighting Satele. It's complete nonsense and has no bearing on what I'm ACTUALLY saying. And the character you played is also a top level smuggler/trooper. Again, strong force users get defeated by non force users a lot in the EU, even in the movie we see Jango Fett kill Jedi High Council members. The Mandalorians made huge threat to the Republic and the Jedi 330 years before TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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