7k smash,...intended?

[HettonVir]

1290 Expertise and I took a 6.2 smash last night.

 

Yea. It happens.

 

I find the people that say it doesnt happen, typically are playing smash specs. No, it doesnt happen every single time (They seem to average 2.5-4k vs. me) but it DOES happen. That being said, my only issue with it is that its AoE. My AImed Shot hits for about the same range of damage (5k hits are fairly common) but its single target. Reduce the AoE range, make it single target, make it weaker the further from ground zero you are...something.

[mrekxxx]

1290 Expertise and I took a 6.2 smash last night.

 

Yea. It happens.

 

I find the people that say it doesnt happen, typically are playing smash specs. No, it doesnt happen every single time (They seem to average 2.5-4k vs. me) but it DOES happen. That being said, my only issue with it is that its AoE. My AImed Shot hits for about the same range of damage (5k hits are fairly common) but its single target. Reduce the AoE range, make it single target, make it weaker the further from ground zero you are...something.

 

6.2 is too much? and what do you think i can heal with my sorcerer 6.8k in one dark infusion heal... cast time is about 2.2 secs, with one button... quicker than press charge+enrage+smash = 3 buttons ...

 

no offence, just asking... healers do 1200 heal per second, my guildie did 1,7 mil in a match, so ?

[SgtBranham]

I have a fully Min/maxed smash Juggernaut and against most equally geared players (i.e. Full Warhero) and i hit in the 5-6k range. If they have some armor debuffs that moves up to 6-7k'ish depending on their armor type.

 

If they are silly enough to come into WZs without any expertise then http://i.imgur.com/SkIEG.jpg awaits them.

 

This is roughly 18-25% of most players hitpoints (again, equally geared) which to me sounds fine. I seen people talking about merc back after 1.2 and the problem there was that multiple debuffs stacked allowing for huge crits (i think i recall getting 8k hits back then when the majority of peoples health was in the 12-15k range. This wasn't fine in my opinion as it was over 50% of their total pool.

[Bronaimeth]

6.2 is too much? and what do you think i can heal with my sorcerer 6.8k in one dark infusion heal... cast time is about 2.2 secs, with one button... quicker than press charge+enrage+smash = 3 buttons ...

 

no offence, just asking... healers do 1200 heal per second, my guildie did 1,7 mil in a match, so ?

 

You're not doing 6.8 every heal, to up to 5 targets.

[SgtBranham]

You're not doing 6.8 every heal, to up to 5 targets.

 

This is the silly part. Juggs damage output is only as good as the enemy team is stupid. SPREAD OUT. Don't stand where 5 people can get smashed. Sure there are a few bottle necks in WZs but keep that to a minimum. Also, lets mention that in the 9 seconds smash is on cooldown, Juggs hit like a wet noodle compared to the other melee dps classes. It all builds up on one attack. Yes it hits hard. Yes it can hit alot of people if they bunch up. Its a burst damage ability and when factored in so that all damage is taken as a whole, they are on par with the other melee DPS classes.

Edited November 26, 2012 by SgtBranham

[Lionflash]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but...

 

 

...Is it possible you were debuffed? Like with armor reduction? Or maybe they picked up one of those power-ups or buffed by another player? When the planets align you I'm sure it's possible to pull off a 7k hit in your type of gear.

[Safgril]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but...

 

 

...Is it possible you were debuffed? Like with armor reduction? Or maybe they picked up one of those power-ups or buffed by another player? When the planets align you I'm sure it's possible to pull off a 7k hit in your type of gear.

 

LOL well the planets must be aligned a lot.

 

i have been hit for 5k, 6k, and 7k... i am 18k+ health... full war hero...have been for a long time. before warhero was full bm... and never hit that hard before.... come back after a small break.. and im getting crushed by mutliple smashers.

 

there is a huge problem... it comes more times then a big hit use to when we use to use relics and adrenals. there was down time for that amount of damage. now its 12 seconds when their cooldown on smash is up

 

love the people who play guardian/jugg are so hard trying to defend it. before there was only 1 or 2 juggs in a premade.. im seeing more and more. Oh and i am also seeing juggs more and more at the top of damage charts

 

my guard is almost 50.... i will be joining you. cant beat them join em.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Safgril

[Lexlo]

I got hit for 5,900 on my Operative Healer last night. ~1280 expertise. All War Hero Armor.

 

 

******* ridiculous.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Lexlo

[PlagaNerezza]

This^^

Not to take this quote out of context but it applies here ...

Sometimes you will get hit hard with a smash because you have 4-5 stacks of armor debuff on you. Lots of factors to take into account besides expertise, gear, crit, etc.

 

It is possible for a marauder in ataru form running a smash spec to force choke for a 4x dmage multipler to smash, then gore to apply a 100% armor penetration, obliterate/leap and get an auto crit smash and an autocrit force scream (blood frenzy should trigger on gore and/or obliterate) and get crits off both skills and still have a ravage. The best part is you don't even have to choke the target of the smash if you want to say maintain surprise bursts.

 

OP doesn't begin to underscore the nonsense of the smash tree and its not even because of the burst. Its instant cast AOE burst on demand crits of its main attacks smash and force scream. I have a juggie to 50 and I am working up a marauder now. My main is an assassin.

 

To pretend that I can auto crit hit like this even as an assassin with recklessness up is absurd. To give someone 100% ap every 15s ontop of that 100% crit must be great. Not even my maul's setup perfectly with duplicity hit that hard on a single target with the shock follow-up and not with the ability to go through someones armor.

 

I have to setup my assassins single target burst and that gives people a chance to respond. Now mind you I can faint a duplicity shock by misdirection like force choke and use my voltaic slashes not on my intended target and save my shots, but even then I am doing that damage on a single target I have to close on a person.

 

There is a lot of ways to correct this problem most of it in my opinion would be requiring a setup and making smash damage apply different to the target verses the bystanders, but I don't much care how its resolved.

 

The biggest problem is not even the single smash player, but the group targeting with it and using the broken resolve mechanic to maximize the aoe burst.

[IHate]

because every spec has 30% aoe damage reduction available to them?

lol...and because everyone's get out of jail free card is on the same cd as the smash...which is what, up every time you jump pretty much?

[Zunayson]

I get 5k Demo rounds by this one commando every time if it crits. No I'm only half WH. Working as intended, i guess. Remember, OP, people here will say lol**** class balance if you don't have gear.

 

But we all know hulksmash is op.

[MidichIorian]

This is the silly part. Juggs damage output is only as good as the enemy team is stupid. SPREAD OUT. Don't stand where 5 people can get smashed.

 

Don't stand where you might be affected by some nearby enemy's bubble stun

 

Don't pop bubbles when you're in range of stun.

 

Don't stand behind a sorc/sage that's using his/her knockback....oh that's right...they already nerfed that.

 

Same logic.

 

If it's that easy, why do we have 10000 crying knights/warrriors? It seems like everyone should adapt to your classes' mechanics but you cant adapt to ****.

 

I took a 6222 hit in 1380 expertise he other day. I usually don't pay attention to how big they are anymore (on behalf of them being in that range every time) but it was hard to miss since it killed me.

Edited November 26, 2012 by MidichIorian

[WaywardOne]

This is the silly part. Juggs damage output is only as good as the enemy team is stupid. SPREAD OUT. Don't stand where 5 people can get smashed. Sure there are a few bottle necks in WZs but keep that to a minimum. Also, lets mention that in the 9 seconds smash is on cooldown, Juggs hit like a wet noodle compared to the other melee dps classes. It all builds up on one attack. Yes it hits hard. Yes it can hit alot of people if they bunch up. Its a burst damage ability and when factored in so that all damage is taken as a whole, they are on par with the other melee DPS classes.

 

Exactly.

Are rage juggs/maras the best 1v1 class/spec? Heck no.

 

Do rage juggs/maras always or even usually top damage boards in wzs? No (but yes it can happen and some players are better at wz scoreboards than others - so what?)

 

So what makes them op'd? Because they can pop the biggest crits every so often? That seems to be the entire argument.

[stringcat]

Smash spec excels against people with bad gear,. If your in full wh with 1100+ expertise and a competent team then i can barely break 4k. Not always true cause healers are squishy but yeah...

 

Then you haven't optimized your gear. I've been hit for at least 6800 at expertise 1200.

[mrekxxx]

You're not doing 6.8 every heal, to up to 5 targets.

 

smash is also not instant, its usually every 9-15 secs

 

revification is simmilar, when i heal aoe 6x 5players i heal in this single aoe heal 30k in 3 secs ...

 

just compare only healing per second, and damage per second, the best players do 1000dps or hps, thats simmilar

[PlagaNerezza]

It is possible for a marauder in ataru form running a smash spec to force choke for a 4x dmage multipler to smash, then gore to apply a 100% armor penetration, obliterate/leap and get an auto crit smash and an autocrit force scream (blood frenzy should trigger on gore and/or obliterate) and get crits off both skills and still have a ravage. The best part is you don't even have to choke the target of the smash if you want to say maintain surprise bursts.

 

OP doesn't begin to underscore the nonsense of the smash tree and its not even because of the burst. Its instant cast AOE burst on demand crits of its main attacks smash and force scream. I have a juggie to 50 and I am working up a marauder now. My main is an assassin.

 

To pretend that I can auto crit hit like this even as an assassin with recklessness up is absurd. To give someone 100% ap every 15s ontop of that 100% crit must be great. Not even my maul's setup perfectly with duplicity hit that hard on a single target with the shock follow-up and not with the ability to go through someones armor.

 

I have to setup my assassins single target burst and that gives people a chance to respond. Now mind you I can faint a duplicity shock by misdirection like force choke and use my voltaic slashes not on my intended target and save my shots, but even then I am doing that damage on a single target I have to close on a person.

 

There is a lot of ways to correct this problem most of it in my opinion would be requiring a setup and making smash damage apply different to the target verses the bystanders, but I don't much care how its resolved.

 

The biggest problem is not even the single smash player, but the group targeting with it and using the broken resolve mechanic to maximize the aoe burst.

 

Oh and just wait till all the marauders and juggies who can when 1.6 dropsbuy WH gear for BM gear prices start min/max stating and lets see just how fugly this gets. Yea right now you've got the few geared skilled guys who can really make you feel the pain. Just wait till you have every pvper able to produce 7k crit hits with 3 button clicks.

 

I don't understand how any game developer allowed an instant cast AOE crit hitting ability to hit live servers. That is more troubling then anything.

 

Look at most other AOE skills in the game. The have a huge glowing target on the map. They do damage over time and typically have a cast timer.

 

Not smash. It violates the basic game setup on AOE damage. I appreciate that classes should be varied and have flavors and variety. I get that smash is "fun".

 

Well where are the other classes burst AOE instant crit trees and skills? I am sure every class wants to run that spec. I am sure the merc/vanguards might love that tree. Why not make madness burst AOE instant crit?

 

But nerf Operatives. Those guys suck.

[Lionflash]

LOL well the planets must be aligned a lot.

 

i have been hit for 5k, 6k, and 7k... i am 18k+ health... full war hero...have been for a long time. before warhero was full bm... and never hit that hard before.... come back after a small break.. and im getting crushed by mutliple smashers.

 

there is a huge problem... it comes more times then a big hit use to when we use to use relics and adrenals. there was down time for that amount of damage. now its 12 seconds when their cooldown on smash is up

 

love the people who play guardian/jugg are so hard trying to defend it. before there was only 1 or 2 juggs in a premade.. im seeing more and more. Oh and i am also seeing juggs more and more at the top of damage charts

 

my guard is almost 50.... i will be joining you. cant beat them join em.

 

I do have a guardian, but it's not my only class... I play 6 characters, so I am not defending them because I am biased. A 5k hit isn't that bad... that's up there with most classes.

 

As someone mentioned the 'smash' spec isn't great 1v1. I certainly do better with my 'carnage' maurauder with his gore>ravage>force scream (1,2,3 dead).

 

Also, you mentioned that they can 'smash' every 12 secondes, but I don't see how (with all the 'Stun Wars' threads going around) a 'smasher' can hit 5 doods and live for 12 secondes and not get stunlocked.

[IHate]

Then you haven't optimized your gear. I've been hit for at least 6800 at expertise 1200.

Large overall damage isn't necessarily game breaking because it may be AOE and at a level that can be healed through. Some of the spike damage is of legitimate concern, but I still don't find them game breaking either. I just find that the basic rollface player chooses it and then the WZs are filled with them. When facing a full team of players that can jump to you when trying to knockback or escape and (if there are 2-3 of them) destroy you easily without very good gear, then I think something needs tweaking.

I don't think they need that much of a change, but generally if you see too many of profession X in WZs then there is probably an issue.

[mrekxxx]

Then you haven't optimized your gear. I've been hit for at least 6800 at expertise 1200.

 

Do you know what is OP? its melee class, smashers leap and ppl see how got attack in closed range. Begginers usually see only this. Melee range and how they got smashed. Marauders are overpowered from january since game was released, cuz they attack in melee range. But some ppl dont see usually ranged attacks or dots, they just see melee attackers more, thats why complain.

[PlagaNerezza]

smash is also not instant, its usually every 9-15 secs

 

revification is simmilar, when i heal aoe 6x 5players i heal in this single aoe heal 30k in 3 secs ...

 

just compare only healing per second, and damage per second, the best players do 1000dps or hps, thats simmilar

 

Smash is instant cast. How often you can use it is not what people are stating. Smash has a cooldown.

 

Revification doesn't auto crit heal all those people. Smash when combined with a leap AUTO CRITICAL HITs all at once.

 

Most AOE's like revification, XS Frieghter flyby, lightning storm, etc all have indicators on the map and have Damage over Time or Heals over Time components.

 

Meaning you can ensure that a player has the opportunity to stop that affect from reaching its full potential.

 

Not smash spec. Its going to hit hard. Most likely with a 4x dmg multipler with an automatic crit unless played completely absent any sort of common sense.

[TonyDragonflame]

The next day after 1.2 patch release my gunnery managed to crit about 5k with his Demolition round having 5 stacks of grav on my target. It was counted as INSANE BUG and we were nerfed the next day to bottom when our top tier ability was reduced in crit to about 3k. Ok, we all left our comandos/mercs and started vanguards. But the thread is not about us but about Smashers...

 

My gear is top WH with augs etc and i still get 7k crits. I'm really happy if only one monkey leaps on me not five as it usually happens when they see commando mark. The worst thing is that my reactive shield doesn't reduce the smash crit at all.

 

BioWare, wake up!

 

I can tell you, who are rocks for smash scissors.

 

There are kill 95% chances:

Snipers

Assasins

Juggs in vegeneance (middle tree)

 

- they are always easy kill smashers

 

Also have 50/50 chances to kill:

Operatives (middle tree)

Maras in annihilation

Pyrotechs, if pull with harpoon smashers first before their leap

 

So, this.

 

And now tell me, which class can kill 1 vs 1 Assasins?

[Lexlo]

Do you know what is OP? its melee class, smashers leap and ppl see how got attack in closed range. Begginers usually see only this. Melee range and how they got smashed. Marauders are overpowered from january since game was released, cuz they attack in melee range. But some ppl dont see usually ranged attacks or dots, they just see melee attackers more, thats why complain.

 

Or because anyone with an IQ over 20 can clearly see that an AOE Instant-Crit of 6000+ damage on a cooldown of 12 seconds is blatantly overpowered. It isn't a coincidence that you see 4+ Warriors/Knights using this spec in WZs.

 

We had this same debate ~8 months ago about Arsenal Mercenaries. And they weren't even nearly as overpowered in their state as this spec is right now.

[SgtBranham]

Don't stand where you might be affected by some nearby enemy's bubble stun

 

Don't pop bubbles when you're in range of stun.

 

Don't stand behind a sorc/sage that's using his/her knockback....oh that's right...they already nerfed that.

 

Same logic.

 

If it's that easy, why do we have 10000 crying knights/warrriors? It seems like everyone should adapt to your classes' mechanics but you cant adapt to ****.

 

I took a 6222 hit in 1380 expertise he other day. I usually don't pay attention to how big they are anymore (on behalf of them being in that range every time) but it was hard to miss since it killed me.

 

Adapting to what your enemy is doing is all part of strategy. If you know they are going to be smashing then you spread out. If you know they have an engineering sniper in voidstar, you have to make him a priority if you hope to cap the door on the side he is on.

 

As a rage Jug I hate bubble stun of course. It takes away ~40% of my damage output potential. Its part of the game right now so you gotta deal with it. So if i have one, i put a ranged DPS as my Focus target and when i see their targets bubble go down i leap in and smash. My sniper gets hit for 6k smashes all the time if i let a Rage get close to me. I usually have to prioritize these guys in my kill order and they go down pretty easy.

 

Jugs are not a great 1 vs 1 class and by staying grouped up you just make them better. They are the class that is most dependent on what their opponents are doing and their damage output is most effected by it. To me, this weakness more than makes up for the burst they have every 9 seconds.

[WaywardOne]

Large overall damage isn't necessarily game breaking because it may be AOE and at a level that can be healed through. Some of the spike damage is of legitimate concern, but I still don't find them game breaking either. I just find that the basic rollface player chooses it and then the WZs are filled with them. When facing a full team of players that can jump to you when trying to knockback or escape and (if there are 2-3 of them) destroy you easily without very good gear, then I think something needs tweaking.

I don't think they need that much of a change, but generally if you see too many of profession X in WZs then there is probably an issue.

 

Can you prove that the spec is taking over wzs? I've been In more than a few wzs lately with 0 knight/warriors and more still with less than 4 total.

[Safgril]

I do have a guardian, but it's not my only class... I play 6 characters, so I am not defending them because I am biased. A 5k hit isn't that bad... that's up there with most classes.

 

As someone mentioned the 'smash' spec isn't great 1v1. I certainly do better with my 'carnage' maurauder with his gore>ravage>force scream (1,2,3 dead).

 

Also, you mentioned that they can 'smash' every 12 secondes, but I don't see how (with all the 'Stun Wars' threads going around) a 'smasher' can hit 5 doods and live for 12 secondes and not get stunlocked.

 

a 5k hit is OK... i said nothing is wrong with .... A 5K AOE HIT IS NOT OK... A 6K AOE HIT IS NOT OK... A 7K AOE HIT IS NOT OK.

 

point in case.... if i jump at you and i can immediately hit the smash button with it attached to my mouse buttons. its quicker then most can hit KB. in fact there are times i have force sweeped(same as smash), i swept as they kb'd and still saw the damage go above their head. I have killed people as they popped into stealth trying to get away from my sweep.

 

an AOE doing this damage is not appropriate. look at all other AOE damages in the game. you will find they do not do anywhere near this kind of damage.

 

P.S. oh and in a warzone 2 days ago... i saw 7 juggs and guardians all top damage. lately its been about 4 avg sometimes more on one side. i am seeing more and more lightsabers(melee) in warzones. This reminded me of the days when i saw Sorcs/Sages overrunning the WZs. before their nerf

Edited November 26, 2012 by Safgril