I do not understand the complaints

[thededman]

RANT ON

 

People who just started f2p are complaining about limited access to certain aspects of the game.

 

These same people are complaining that they have to pay for certain things to be able to actually enjoy playing this game.

 

Yet these same people are saying they will never sub because the game is not worth $5-$15 per month

 

So just so I understand... these people will not pay for CC or a sub because the game and or F2P model is so bad and use this excuse to justify not paying for anything?

 

What would there be left to actually spend money on if they got everything they wanted at no cost?

 

Do these people really think that EA (which is a business actually trying to make money) is going to cater to someone who has no intention of ever dropping a dime into this gameplay experience?

 

And no you do not "need" this or that to play this game.....will these things help you? Sure they will.

 

EA has given you everything you need to play and complete the storyline for FREE. Shouldnt you be happy with that fact alone?

 

RANT OFF

Edited November 20, 2012 by thededman

[Ashu-ri]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

[astrobearz]

dude did you seriously needed to make another thread about this? i mean there are so many threads with this exactly topic out there with answers to your question.

 

stop being lazy and read those threads. all you going see here is the same old rehash arguments.

 

geez

Edited November 20, 2012 by astrobearz

[Slowpokeking]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

 

Yeah, that's why they released those XP boost.

 

I think the restriction could please most of the people if they do some minor changes such as remove the bars and equipment limit. The real challenge is they have to release new stuff when the new players reach 50.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[Ashu-ri]

Yeah, that's why they released those XP boost.

 

I think the restriction could please most of the people if they do some minor changes such as remove the bars and equipment limit. The real challenge is they have to release new stuff when the new players reach 50.

 

Right. So far, hubby and I have been sending him all the xp boosts that we've gotten - not just off the starter planet, but I got a couple from cartel bag as well.

[Guancyto]

So you don't actually know what's being restricted, or asked for, and you're in full rant mode about it?

 

Those are some easily twisted panties.

 

Let's break down the really reasonable ones:

 

-Parts of the user interface are being charged for. Most new players haven't gotten to the point where this is a problem, but some of them have. Many are objecting on principle. They should. It's crass. "You don't need those hotbars!" comes the response. Yeah, you don't need the minimap either. Expectations are shaped by the games they've played previously. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to equip epic items is being charged for. Probably no new players have gotten to the point where this is a problem, but they recognize quite quickly that it will be. If they're coming from another MMO, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to submit a support ticket is sub-only. Things are always buggy right after a patch. Free players are getting bugged into other people's spaceships and can't figure out how to get out. They don't have fleet passes either. Some of them have found the forums and found out the solution (use the escape pod; if that doesn't work queue for a flashpoint). Some of them. Given the restrictions already in place, it's logical for one of them to assume that they're supposed to buy a 1-time fleet pass i.e. pay to get their character unstuck. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

Protip: click that "Cartel Market" icon at the top of your screen. Look at the "add cartel coins" button. Stare at it for a while. You looking at it? Good. That's how people who don't want to subscribe spend money on this game. There's not an Iron Curtain between "totally free" and "subscriber."

Edited November 20, 2012 by Guancyto

[Slowpokeking]

So you don't actually know what's being restricted, or asked for, and you're in full rant mode about it?

 

Those are some easily twisted panties.

 

Let's break down the really reasonable ones:

 

-Parts of the user interface are being charged for. Most new players haven't gotten to the point where this is a problem, but some of them have. Many are objecting on principle. They should. It's crass. "You don't need those hotbars!" comes the response. Yeah, you don't need the minimap either. Expectations are shaped by the games they've played previously. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to equip epic items is being charged for. Probably no new players have gotten to the point where this is a problem, but they recognize quite quickly that it will be. If they're coming from another MMO, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to submit a support ticket is sub-only. Things are always buggy right after a patch. Free players are getting bugged into other people's spaceships and can't figure out how to get out. They don't have fleet passes either. Some of them have found the forums and found out the solution (use the escape pod; if that doesn't work queue for a flashpoint). Some of them. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

Protip: click that "Cartel Market" icon at the top of your screen. Look at the "add cartel coins" button. Stare at it for a while. You looking at it? Good. That's how people who don't want to subscribe spend money on this game. There's not an Iron Curtain between "totally free" and "subscriber."

 

I think they should get resub players better f2p mode and remove these restriction when new players have a level 50 char. At least the fist 2 won't affect low level players much.

 

However, if they change it now, won't it be unfair to players who paid for these?

Edited November 20, 2012 by Slowpokeking

[arunav]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

 

I am all for most of the restrictions for F2P. But the decreased experience will just frustrate people into not playing the game, if the leveling is that far behind.

 

We, as subscribers, and EA, as a business, want to bring people into what is, at its core, a really good, fun game. How long it stays that way depends on how many characters you play thorough. But, for a casual player with some extra money to spend, this can potentially be a long time.

 

Things like limiting experience to such an extent, limiting the UI, etc., are a detriment to the game getting better.

 

For the most part, the Cartel Shop and F2P design is done pretty well for this particular game, what it has and what can be monetized. They went overboard on some restrictions, though, and I hope EA decides to make them slightly less stringent in the near future.

 

This is coming from a long-time subscriber that wants the game to improve and have actual resources going forward.

 

What we've been seeing in the game lately is a result of a lot of layoffs at BioWare. Think of what the HK quest really would have been if SWTOR were doing well financially - wouldn't there be more "new" content to it, than just 1, albeit cool, lost ship to poke around, and the Fatality? The entire rest of the quest was done on the cheap, as was the event in August. This patch is named for HK, and, while I'm glad he's in the game now, it wasn't up to the standards the leveling experience set. Neither are his gearing problems, and the bugs in the QUEST THE PATCH IS NAMED FOR, ones that were pointed out on the PTS.

 

That is SWTOR now, and we won't be seeing it change to what it could be unless F2P goes well. The current player base spending more probably isn't going to cut it, though some people are really going rather crazy with those packs.

 

/end rant

Edited November 20, 2012 by arunav

[ChuangTzu]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

 

Well from testing on the PTS the reduction in xp does not kick in until you leave the starter planet so there should be no reason why he should be behind at that point if he is doing everything ur doin!

[Guancyto]

I think they should get resub players better f2p mode and remove these restriction when new players have a level 50 char. At least the fist 2 won't affect low level players much.

 

However, if they change it now, won't it be unfair to players who paid for these?

 

There's a record of all cartel transactions. Refund the cartel coins (equivalent to giving store credit for a defective product) and you won't hear too many complaints.

[Smashbrother]

So you don't actually know what's being restricted, or asked for, and you're in full rant mode about it?

 

Those are some easily twisted panties.

 

Let's break down the really reasonable ones:

 

-Parts of the user interface are being charged for. Most new players haven't gotten to the point where this is a problem, but some of them have. Many are objecting on principle. They should. It's crass. "You don't need those hotbars!" comes the response. Yeah, you don't need the minimap either. Expectations are shaped by the games they've played previously. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

I have a 46 sin--which is one of the classes with the most abilities--and all my skills I use are on two bars. 2 bars doesn't hinder anyone from leveling up. I could care less if they charged for minimap as well, since I mostly use the actual map to find things.

 

-Ability to equip epic items is being charged for. Probably no new players have gotten to the point where this is a problem, but they recognize quite quickly that it will be. If they're coming from another MMO, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

Non issue while leveling up. You'll rarely ever find purples, if any.

 

-Ability to submit a support ticket is sub-only. Things are always buggy right after a patch. Free players are getting bugged into other people's spaceships and can't figure out how to get out. They don't have fleet passes either. Some of them have found the forums and found out the solution (use the escape pod; if that doesn't work queue for a flashpoint). Some of them. Given the restrictions already in place, it's logical for one of them to assume that they're supposed to buy a 1-time fleet pass i.e. pay to get their character unstuck. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

This is pretty dick.

[Desolatos]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

 

I did Korriban with a f2p friend who was and inquistor and he got to level 11. We did both class quests together but it was almost all the same areas you went and just picked up different things to and could not have accounted for 3 levels.

[TheREALKyias]

So you don't actually know what's being restricted, or asked for, and you're in full rant mode about it?

 

Those are some easily twisted panties.

 

Let's break down the really reasonable ones:

 

-Parts of the user interface are being charged for. Most new players haven't gotten to the point where this is a problem, but some of them have. Many are objecting on principle. They should. It's crass. "You don't need those hotbars!" comes the response. Yeah, you don't need the minimap either. Expectations are shaped by the games they've played previously. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to equip epic items is being charged for. Probably no new players have gotten to the point where this is a problem, but they recognize quite quickly that it will be. If they're coming from another MMO, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to submit a support ticket is sub-only. Things are always buggy right after a patch. Free players are getting bugged into other people's spaceships and can't figure out how to get out. They don't have fleet passes either. Some of them have found the forums and found out the solution (use the escape pod; if that doesn't work queue for a flashpoint). Some of them. Given the restrictions already in place, it's logical for one of them to assume that they're supposed to buy a 1-time fleet pass i.e. pay to get their character unstuck. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

Protip: click that "Cartel Market" icon at the top of your screen. Look at the "add cartel coins" button. Stare at it for a while. You looking at it? Good. That's how people who don't want to subscribe spend money on this game. There's not an Iron Curtain between "totally free" and "subscriber."

 

Everything this guy said.

 

When you try to micro-transaction BASIC game functionality and BASIC gear progression why on earth would anyone want to play a F2P model?

 

I personally do not find SWTOR worth a subscription fee. If their F2P model as it stands wasn't so ridiculous I wouldn't mind spending $25 every couple months on stuff I enjoy. That is what the F2P model is about. The problem is the current F2P model sucks and until they change it I won't be playing it.

[AdamChattaway]

All I know, is, I believe, f2p players evidently get lower xp than subbed players. As a sub, if I rolled a new character now, doing all the bonus side missions, skipping the heroics, I would be level 9 - 10 before I was done with the starter planet and . My son, (who is f2p) however, rolled a new character, did all of the above, and was something like level 8 when he left Tython. So, level-wise, he was behind. Now, at the end of Coruscant, he's still behind. I think he's level 13 going into his final class quest?

 

This aint true, im a sub, and my 2 friends are not, we made chars all together and we dinged at exactly the same time, till we left the planet, all lv 10. your son may have skipped a lot of mobs and so on but subs dont get mroe exp.

[Avrid]

So you don't actually know what's being restricted, or asked for, and you're in full rant mode about it?

 

Those are some easily twisted panties.

 

Let's break down the really reasonable ones:

 

-Parts of the user interface are being charged for. Most new players haven't gotten to the point where this is a problem, but some of them have. Many are objecting on principle. They should. It's crass. "You don't need those hotbars!" comes the response. Yeah, you don't need the minimap either. Expectations are shaped by the games they've played previously. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to equip epic items is being charged for. Probably no new players have gotten to the point where this is a problem, but they recognize quite quickly that it will be. If they're coming from another MMO, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

-Ability to submit a support ticket is sub-only. Things are always buggy right after a patch. Free players are getting bugged into other people's spaceships and can't figure out how to get out. They don't have fleet passes either. Some of them have found the forums and found out the solution (use the escape pod; if that doesn't work queue for a flashpoint). Some of them. Given the restrictions already in place, it's logical for one of them to assume that they're supposed to buy a 1-time fleet pass i.e. pay to get their character unstuck. If they're coming from any other game, they'll recognize that nobody else charges for this.

 

Protip: click that "Cartel Market" icon at the top of your screen. Look at the "add cartel coins" button. Stare at it for a while. You looking at it? Good. That's how people who don't want to subscribe spend money on this game. There's not an Iron Curtain between "totally free" and "subscriber."

 

 

Actually EQ2 does charge free players to equip the top teir of gear, and SOE requires you to buy an unlocker for each piece of equipment you want to equip

[Guancyto]

Actually EQ2 does charge free players to equip the top teir of gear, and SOE requires you to buy an unlocker for each piece of equipment you want to equip

 

Hmm, I hadn't thought of those, you're right. SOE's is straight-up worse. EQ2's is too, by the looks of it rather than a one-time fee they straight-up require a subscription to equip their equivalent of purples.

 

I'll ease off on the hyperbole. ^^; I don't like that restriction at all but I guess there is some precedent for it.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Guancyto

[Jandi]

They are spoiled, plain and simple. The crying will never end until you start at level 50 with a full set of the best pvp and pve gear in the mail without ever paying for anything.

 

I hope BW realizes this and not give in to these whiners. If WoW has showed anything, the crying and whining will never ever stop, no matter what you hand out, these people will always want more until they have GM powers.

 

And yeah, flame me all you want. It's expected.

[whyzerman]

RANT ON

 

People who just started f2p are complaining about limited access to certain aspects of the game.

 

These same people are complaining that they have to pay for certain things to be able to actually enjoy playing this game.

 

Yet these same people are saying they will never sub because the game is not worth $5-$15 per month

 

So just so I understand... these people will not pay for CC or a sub because the game and or F2P model is so bad and use this excuse to justify not paying for anything?

 

What would there be left to actually spend money on if they got everything they wanted at no cost?

 

Do these people really think that EA (which is a business actually trying to make money) is going to cater to someone who has no intention of ever dropping a dime into this gameplay experience?

 

And no you do not "need" this or that to play this game.....will these things help you? Sure they will.

 

EA has given you everything you need to play and complete the storyline for FREE. Shouldnt you be happy with that fact alone?

 

RANT OFF

 

Well my main concern is, I want to come back, I really do. I enjoyed the game immensely. The problem is, I have 3 toons, all at max level. So, I have a few questions, and this seems like the appropriate thread to ask them in.

 

Have they added any substantial content? HK companion doesn't count. I am talking things like Chapter 4 in the Story lines.

 

When I left a couple months ago, there were 3 endgame raids. EV/KP/Denova. Have they added any more? If so how many bosses and is the content difficult or pretty much face roll like the rest of the raids?

 

They had plans to do a new Hutt raid, and a raid about the dread guard as well. Any word on these raids?

 

*Edit*

The reason I ask is that as a former subscriber, I've pretty much done it all. What incentives do I have to come back and buy an operations pass or a PVP pass?

Edited November 20, 2012 by whyzerman

[Guancyto]

And yeah, flame me all you want. It's expected.

 

Okay!

 

You don't understand numbers.

 

There exist people who will complain about all restrictions. This is a tiny, tiny minority of the people who are complaining now. But this is a forum and not an especially well-trafficked one, you only need like five of them to fill the airwaves.

 

There are lots of people who will complain about really absurd restrictions like customer support being subscriber-only. There are even more who don't complain but vote with their money and their feet (the ones who leave and don't say anything are the ones that make marketers want to punch walls).

 

You will never stop all the complaining. But a deluge of criticism is bad for PR. You can stop the majority of the complaining, make the remaining complainers look like total idiots and improve your player retention and conversion to paying customers by easing up on really absurd restrictions like customer support.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Guancyto

[monkgryphon]

If they implement a way to earn or purchase CCs in game, then maybe people wont feel so bad about it all. Especially if by the time someone reaches 50, they could have earned about 5 dollars worth of CCs. Edited November 20, 2012 by monkgryphon

[whyzerman]

Okay!

 

You don't understand numbers.

 

There exist people who will complain about all restrictions. This is a tiny, tiny minority of the people who are complaining now. But this is a forum and not an especially well-trafficked one, you only need like five of them to fill the airwaves.

 

There are lots of people who will complain about really absurd restrictions like customer support being subscriber-only. There are even more who don't complain but vote with their money and their feet (the ones who leave and don't say anything are the ones that make marketers want to punch walls).

 

You will never stop all the complaining. You can stop the majority of the complaining, make the complainers look like total idiots and improve your player retention and conversion to paying customers by easing up on really absurd restrictions like customer support.

 

Well, to be honest the in game customer support for this game has always been a joke, so not giving F2P'ers access to that is more of a blessing for them. I would rather post on the forums and get a reply within 1 business day then wait for 5 days for them to answer a ticket about my toon being stuck and unable to move/use QT/Fleet Pass. At least with the forum support only option you get tips and tricks from other people who actually play the game, and know work-arounds for the bugs.

 

Still curious on what they have added for previous subscribers who want to come back as F2P as far as end-game content goes though.

Edited November 20, 2012 by whyzerman

[sankalp]

Well my main concern is, I want to come back, I really do. I enjoyed the game immensely. The problem is, I have 3 toons, all at max level. So, I have a few questions, and this seems like the appropriate thread to ask them in.

 

Have they added any substantial content? HK companion doesn't count. I am talking things like Chapter 4 in the Story lines.

 

When I left a couple months ago, there were 3 endgame raids. EV/KP/Denova. Have they added any more? If so how many bosses and is the content difficult or pretty much face roll like the rest of the raids?

 

They had plans to do a new Hutt raid, and a raid about the dread guard as well. Any word on these raids?

 

*Edit*

The reason I ask is that as a former subscriber, I've pretty much done it all. What incentives do I have to come back and buy an operations pass or a PVP pass?

 

They have added 2 new raids including NiM EC.

 

EC was itself the first part of the Dread Guard story. This goes a step further in TFB. TFB HM is a lot of fun, not hard, but not easy too. NiM EC seems to be good for 8 man and gr8 for 16m as no one has cleared a 16m NiM EC world wide atm

[thededman]

I probably should have mentioned this in the OP, but what if (for example) I have only had the game 4-5 months and am a casual player, one that likes to solo play and take it slow, has a few characters but none higher than mid 20's or so and happily pays the sub fee? The game goes f2p and I now notice that I can still do ALL that I was doing before but now I can do it for free.

[Jandi]

Okay!

 

You don't understand numbers.

 

There exist people who will complain about all restrictions. This is a tiny, tiny minority of the people who are complaining now. But this is a forum and not an especially well-trafficked one, you only need like five of them to fill the airwaves.

 

There are lots of people who will complain about really absurd restrictions like customer support being subscriber-only. There are even more who don't complain but vote with their money and their feet (the ones who leave and don't say anything are the ones that make marketers want to punch walls).

 

You will never stop all the complaining. But a deluge of criticism is bad for PR. You can stop the majority of the complaining, make the remaining complainers look like total idiots and improve your player retention and conversion to paying customers by easing up on really absurd restrictions like customer support.

 

The point was that you could give the entire game free without ANY restrictions and people would still complain that they have to pay for skills or that they have to level their character. It. Never. Ends.

 

Some restrictions are just stupid, like hide headslot and hotbars. They do not entice people to pay, they entice people to uninstall the game but as a subscriber myself, none of it affects me. I've taken part in many threads before it went live to try to make the case that certain things will only make people uninstall rather than play.

 

They didn't care then and they certain will not care now because some suit who has never play a video game in his life decided it's a great idea. What make you think they would care now? It's just inane complaining that won't change anything.

[whyzerman]

They have added 2 new raids including NiM EC.

 

EC was itself the first part of the Dread Guard story. This goes a step further in TFB. TFB HM is a lot of fun, not hard, but not easy too. NiM EC seems to be good for 8 man and gr8 for 16m as no one has cleared a 16m NiM EC world wide atm

 

 

So if I come back, I basically can look forward to 1 new raid? By the time I left we had been farming HM EC for about 6 weeks, and since campaign gear was the same level as rakata gear with BH mods, this was without getting any substantial gear upgrades except implants that weren't available on the GTN, and hilts.

 

Have they added anything besides TFB than? Maybe some new FP's or warzones? Have they finally implemented world PVP hubs? Did they ever release ranked pvp?