Best Build per Boss?

[Mrog]

It seems one of the huge boosts to snipers in 1.5 is the ability of unlimited respec. With 3 DPS trees to choose from, this gives the sniper great versatility to match the build to the boss. I generally see 5 major builds and put my opinion as to their strengths/weaknesses. Please feel free to disagree. The question then becomes what is the best build for each boss in tier 2 operations?

 

MM Build - Strength: Ability to quickly swap targets. Weakness: Mobility

MM/Eng Hybrid - Strength: Flexibility. Weakness: Single Target DPS/Energy

Eng Build - Strength: Multi-Target/AoE DPS. Weakness: Single Target DPS

Lethality Build - Strength: Mobility. Weakness: Target Swapping

Lethality/Eng Hybrid - Strength: Single Target DPS. Weakness: Complicated Rotation/Target Swapping/Energy

 

EC

Zorn and Toth: Lethality

Firebrand and Stormcaller: Marksman

Colonel Vorgath: Marksman

Warlord Kephess: Marksman

 

TFB

Withering Horror: Lethality

Ciphas, Heirad, and Kel’Sara: Lethality

Operator IX: Marksman

Kephess the Undying: Marksman if on Distortions/Lethality if just boss burn

The Terror from Beyond: Marksman

 

Nightmare Pilgram: ?

 

Of course the X factor is the groups strategy for the sniper. (i.e. if you are tasked with getting adds on certain bosses it may change the answer to best build)

Edited November 20, 2012 by Mrog

[Bouncy_Hunter]

For me the best build for all bosses is MM. I don't think the difference in DPS is so significant that we should switch spec every time for different bosses. Should just play the one you enjoy, snipers are top DPS with marauders either way, especially if you know how to play your spec. This is just my opinion.

[Mrog]

That is true in you certainly don't have to swap specs to be successful. That being said, after having run several of the builds, I have noticed that some fights seem to favor one build to another. I have heard of others swapping builds in the middle of the operation before the cost was set to zero. Now that the cost has been set to zero, there is no reason not to give it a try and see how swapping specs makes the runs seem easier. I was curious for input from someone who already does this or is planning to do their opinion on fight/build synergies that work well.

[Synavix]

I may start messing with the hybrid Leth/Eng spec on more fights, but like the above poster said, I'll likely just stick to my normal spec (Lethality) for most stuff because I'm used to it, and can do more DPS.

 

The one exception is probably Operator IX. It ends up pretty close either way, but MM still seems to pull ahead for that particular fight.

[Mrog]

Lethality/Engineering Hybrid is my personal favorite, and it seems to be the best on a combat dummy. Unfortunately, most operations bosses are quite different than an ops dummy. I have never tried Marksman on Operater, but may give that a shot. Thank you for the input.

 

For the terror from beyond, it seems like marksman may be a good fit if you are on add duty. If you are not on add duty, I would probably stick lethality/engineering since most of your job is to quickly burn down a large single target.

 

Kephess the warlord in EC is an interesting fight that I am not sure about. My gut says marksman due to the number of targets, but you also have periods of trying to maximize your single target dps. Decent amount of movement in that one as well.

[Synavix]

For the terror from beyond, it seems like marksman may be a good fit if you are on add duty. If you are not on add duty, I would probably stick lethality/engineering since most of your job is to quickly burn down a large single target.

 

For phase 1 add duty, MM is definitely superior. However, it's still do-able as Leth with a bit more practice, and Leth becomes far better for most of phase 2. I suppose Irregularities slightly favor MM, but with Anomolies or Tentacles you can pre-DoT targets before actually reaching the target (or during slam) and spend the entire time you're on the platform using your heavy-hitters. In straight-up terms of DPS, Leth is "better" because your CG is constantly hitting TfB during that phase as well.

 

Kephess the warlord in EC is an interesting fight that I am not sure about. My gut says marksman due to the number of targets, but you also have periods of trying to maximize your single target dps. Decent amount of movement in that one as well.

 

At first glance you'd think MM, but if you time your abilities right Leth can still come out ahead here. If you save your Explosive Probe for only Distortions (just in p1), and use Ambush every time in your normal rotation, you can EP -> SoS every Distortion and then Rifle Shot -> Takedown as you're moving back into position for a possible laser target. Your DoTs should be reapplied just before distortions come out as well, so you're keeping up a good portion of your DPS on the boss at the same time.

[Fedenip]

Hi there, very good thread. I'm a french gunslinger who's name is Akopra and for me, the MM spec (Sharpshooting for gunslinger ^^) is the best spec on :

-Colonel Vorgath (i'm for the moment 1st on the stats of TORParse in 8HM with this spec)

-Warlord Kephess

-Operator IX (the same, 1st for the moment in 8HM with that spec)

-The Terror from Beyond (1st gunslinger/sniper in 8HM, and 5th or 6th if we count every classes for the moment on TORParse stats with MM spec)

 

(bosses with many different mono-target)

 

After for others bosses, i hesitate between the MM spec and the lethality spec (i do 2k dps on the ops dummy on more than 5min with the 2 spec, and i think we can do 2 or 3% more dps with lethality spec on one target, just when it's more than 4-5min)

 

So me i prefer the MM spec for "Kephess the Undying" and "Firebrand & Stormcaller" too because we have to burst sometimes (with the debuff on Kephess and for trandos on Firebrand & Stormcaller, particulary if you are on Firebrand and you have 3 trandos)

 

But for "Zorn & Toth", "Ciphas, Heirad, & Kel'sara" and "The Writhing Horror", for me, the two spec (full MM or lethality) are approximatly the same or perhaps a little bit better in lethality spec (i stay in MM me)

 

Akopra Nekrat

Edited November 19, 2012 by Fedenip

[NotRonin]

Unfortunately, changing spec messes up your hotbar, and it may also means carrying another set of gear. since MM gets 3 pts of accuracy in the tree, so optimized gear for MM will be different from optimized gear for Lethality.

 

The comment on single target DPS for MM/Eng and Leth/Eng is somewhat inaccurate. Their weakness is energy. The perfect rotation for MM/Eng is very convoluted as you're juggling 5 skills with different cooldowns (EP is 30, IP is 18, SoS is 12, Ambush is 13.5-14.5, OS is 60 seconds) while also managing your energy. Leth/Eng in contrast is very simple in the rotation, (CG/CD on CD, Cull on CD, filler in between), however you're constantly gambling energy for damage. While Leth/Eng is pretty rare, I have not met a single MM/Eng in an operation yet. (Or an Engineering sniper for that matter.)

 

Won't go into the MM vs Lethality argument : it's really a playstyle preference.

[Synavix]

Akopra, glad to see your input. I remember your post on the Gunslinger forums a while back with your parses, they were impressive. Unfortunately at the time I didn't have any saved to compare, but if I remember right you had me beat on Operator IX and TfB, but I had higher parses for Writhing Horror and Kephess (as Dirty Fighting). I think my best on the council fight was within ~20 DPS or so of yours.

 

To what NotRonin brought up:

I actually saw a lot of people talking about using MM/Eng hybrid back before/early parser days. Once they started messing around with Burst Volley all the talk about it seemed to die out. I'd agree that I almost never see anyone do any serious PvE as Eng.

 

I think if we ever went back to a situation where we had very hard enrage single target bosses, we might see a small comeback for using Leth/Eng. I used to mess around with the spec quite a bit when 4manning HM EV was difficult/new, and it worked for those two (KP/EV) instances. Once you start getting more complex mechanics, or real adds of any sort, it just quickly falls below what you could get with full Lethality. I'd be interested to see what I could pull using the Leth/Eng hybrid on TfB's Kephess, but it would require me to focus on the boss and leave distortions for someone else, since you'd lack any real proper ways of taking care of them quickly without hurting your single target DPS.

[Mrog]

 

To what NotRonin brought up:

I actually saw a lot of people talking about using MM/Eng hybrid back before/early parser days. Once they started messing around with Burst Volley all the talk about it seemed to die out. I'd agree that I almost never see anyone do any serious PvE as Eng.

I agree as well. To be honest, I think both MM/Eng and Engineering excel more in the PvP arena. I can't think of a boss that either of these builds would be ideal. I added to list to keep an open mind.

[Mrog]

Unfortunately, changing spec messes up your hotbar, and it may also means carrying another set of gear. since MM gets 3 pts of accuracy in the tree, so optimized gear for MM will be different from optimized gear for Lethality.

 

I actually was worried about that, but found I really only move a few buttons. I was able to change gear, redo skill tree, and fix my bars in less than 3 minutes. To make sure I warm up to the build, my goal would be to swap specs at the end of the previous boss while they are dealing with loot. I am pretty sure I can finish the swap before they are done.

[Mrog]

So me i prefer the MM spec for "Kephess the Undying" and "Firebrand & Stormcaller" too because we have to burst sometimes (with the debuff on Kephess and for trandos on Firebrand & Stormcaller, particulary if you are on Firebrand and you have 3 trandos)

Akopra Nekrat

 

Thank you so very much for input. I will definitely give this a go.

 

The only one I am not sure about is Firebrand and Stormcaller. I guess this is correct, but boy you can put out some massive damage using Lethality/Eng hybrid and it just seems to time out right for the adds. I will have to give marksman a try.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Mrog

[Fedenip]

Akopra, glad to see your input. I remember your post on the Gunslinger forums a while back with your parses, they were impressive. Unfortunately at the time I didn't have any saved to compare, but if I remember right you had me beat on Operator IX and TfB, but I had higher parses for Writhing Horror and Kephess (as Dirty Fighting). I think my best on the council fight was within ~20 DPS or so of yours.

 

Yes for Kephess the Undying, i wait for a nice try of my tanks (or others) when they don't miss a tower (we don't play with audio to respect the RP server =P) but yes i hesitate for him, i think lethality wouldn't be bad too =) i just did 2k7 for the moment and i'm not the higher gunslinger/sniper in the ranking on him

 

And for the Writhing Horror, it mostly depends of your dps group, because the fight stop 20-25sec after the death of the boss, and so if you can aoe the 3rd or th 4th group of adds just after his death, you have more chance to do good stats, on that fight, without the first time, i never see the 4th group who comes at 5min15sec. But i'll try to do better than my little 1k8 =)

 

In TfB HM, my worst boss is the 2nd for me, i never do a good try in 8HM mod (max 1k6 dps) but i'm sure i can do better, in 8SM mod i did 1k9

 

And so, what is your pseudo on TORParse? Jaedon perhaps? He does impressive stats too =)

 

Akopra Nekrat

 

PS: and yes for my post on the same subject of this thread with my videos and TORParse to compare specs, i had 0 reply, i was thinking i stink ^_^

PS2: i put the video of my 2k dps in Sharpshooting on the ops dummy (MM for you ^^) with the TORParse to don't be seen like someone who just speak =)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/51486

Edited November 19, 2012 by Fedenip

[Synavix]

Unfortunately, I haven't been using ToRparse at all, so none of my fights are up there. Usually I just use MoX parser and upload to other sites when necessary. The site I used to use recently went down.

 

Writhing Horror is definitely a terrible fight to compare. My highest parses (2200 and 2360) were only because I had less competition for AoE. With more AoE'ers in the group I've pulled as little as 1700 or 1800 DPS as well.

 

My two highest parses for Kephess were 2800 (Dirty Fighting gunslinger) and one 2900 (Lethality sniper), but both those attempts I focused on distortions a lot less, only killing 2 or 3 instead of my normal 5 or 6. I think I might be able to get a little bit higher now that I'm in mostly Dread Guard (both those kills were full Campaign), but my normal DPS is usually around 2500-2600 while focusing on distortions more.

 

I'd love to get a chance to run as MM or SS on one of my characters. I've never been able to pull quite as high as your numbers, so it'd be a good learning experience to compare the ability usage.

[TheRealCandyMan]

Yes for Kephess the Undying, i wait for a nice try of my tanks (or others) when they don't miss a tower (we don't play with audio to respect the RP server =P) but yes i hesitate for him, i think lethality wouldn't be bad too =) i just did 2k7 for the moment and i'm not the higher gunslinger/sniper in the ranking on him

 

And for the Writhing Horror, it mostly depends of your dps group, because the fight stop 20-25sec after the death of the boss, and so if you can aoe the 3rd or th 4th group of adds just after his death, you have more chance to do good stats, on that fight, without the first time, i never see the 4th group who comes at 5min15sec. But i'll try to do better than my little 1k8 =)

 

In TfB HM, my worst boss is the 2nd for me, i never do a good try in 8HM mod (max 1k6 dps) but i'm sure i can do better, in 8SM mod i did 1k9

 

And so, what is your pseudo on TORParse? Jaedon perhaps? He does impressive stats too =)

 

Akopra Nekrat

 

PS: and yes for my post on the same subject of this thread with my videos and TORParse to compare specs, i had 0 reply, i was thinking i stink ^_^

PS2: i put the video of my 2k dps in Sharpshooting on the ops dummy (MM for you ^^) with the TORParse to don't be seen like someone who just speak =)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/51486

Wow, I'm super impressed by this. I've always been attracted to MM because of it's higher burst capability but have stuck with a 2/16/23 hybrid simply because it's always worked best for me. May I ask what your build of MM is? Is it similar to this?

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/gunslinger#6k898cce3e-fc-i

I have similar stats to your gunslinger on my sniper and if I can master the build your using I would switch to it in a second. If you wouldn't mind taking the time to elaborate on your rotation a bit I would be very grateful. It's not super easy for me to try and do that from the video you posted as I don't speak french.

[TheRealCandyMan]

Unfortunately, I haven't been using ToRparse at all, so none of my fights are up there. Usually I just use MoX parser and upload to other sites when necessary. The site I used to use recently went down.

 

Writhing Horror is definitely a terrible fight to compare. My highest parses (2200 and 2360) were only because I had less competition for AoE. With more AoE'ers in the group I've pulled as little as 1700 or 1800 DPS as well.

 

My two highest parses for Kephess were 2800 (Dirty Fighting gunslinger) and one 2900 (Lethality sniper), but both those attempts I focused on distortions a lot less, only killing 2 or 3 instead of my normal 5 or 6. I think I might be able to get a little bit higher now that I'm in mostly Dread Guard (both those kills were full Campaign), but my normal DPS is usually around 2500-2600 while focusing on distortions more.

 

I'd love to get a chance to run as MM or SS on one of my characters. I've never been able to pull quite as high as your numbers, so it'd be a good learning experience to compare the ability usage.

 

You wouldn't happen to have any videos do you? I'd be curious as to how you were able to achieve 2900 DPS on Kephess.

[Synavix]

You wouldn't happen to have any videos do you? I'd be curious as to how you were able to achieve 2900 DPS on Kephess.

 

I don't, although I've considered streaming in the future.

 

Also, I do mean Kephess the Undying in TfB, not Warlord Kephess in EC. There are a couple of parses up on ToRParse that I was just looking at. One as a DF Gunslinger at over 3100 DPS and one SS Gunslinger just under 3k, both on 8m HM

[TheRealCandyMan]

I don't, although I've considered streaming in the future.

 

Also, I do mean Kephess the Undying in TfB, not Warlord Kephess in EC. There are a couple of parses up on ToRParse that I was just looking at. One as a DF Gunslinger at over 3100 DPS and one SS Gunslinger just under 3k, both on 8m HM

 

Ya, I realized that. I'm still just curious though. I am able to pull in roughly 1950 DPS on the OPs dummy when i'm spec'd into a 2/16/23 build but I did not come close to 2900 on Kephess.

[NoTomorrow]

MM should be enough for all your raiding needs. I don't understand all the fuss with MM mobility problems. People seem to forget the followthrough can be used outside of cover.

[adezero]

MM should be enough for all your raiding needs. I don't understand all the fuss with MM mobility problems. People seem to forget the followthrough can be used outside of cover.

 

True, marksman's weakness is NOT mobility. I can't believe people still state this.

[Fedenip]

Wow, I'm super impressed by this. I've always been attracted to MM because of it's higher burst capability but have stuck with a 2/16/23 hybrid simply because it's always worked best for me. May I ask what your build of MM is? Is it similar to this?

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/gunslinger#6k898cce3e-fc-i

I have similar stats to your gunslinger on my sniper and if I can master the build your using I would switch to it in a second. If you wouldn't mind taking the time to elaborate on your rotation a bit I would be very grateful. It's not super easy for me to try and do that from the video you posted as I don't speak french.

 

Yes it's approximatly the same, mine is :

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/gunslinger#6k898dce3d-3c-k

 

And ok i'll try to do what i can to do a MM guide (Sharpshooting for us )

 

And so i do a last Denova HM this night to test a last time before Denova Nightmare (we wipe on the 2nd boss this evening in Nightmare, but this week, they'll die for sure =)) and i did 1668 dps on the 2nd boss (bad because we had to wait the 2 dps on Firebrand they kill trandos 10-15sec after ours snif ^^), 1756 on Vorgath, and 1788 on Warlord Kephess, it will be on the TORParse ranking tomorrow

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/52194

 

PS : and very good parses Synavix =) and yes i have 2 others guys who aoe with me on the writting horror hihi, congratulations for Kephess the Undying, i'll try to do the same in MM this week (and if a tank or one other guy miss a tower, he will be punished hihi ) and so i cheer you to put your logs on TORParse, now the ranking is very interesting i think =)

 

PS2 : i give my youtube channel if you want (what? a stealth add? ^^)

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN20w6RVKdaWiU1VTL2YcbQ/videos?view=0

Edited November 20, 2012 by Fedenip

[Synavix]

True, marksman's weakness is NOT mobility. I can't believe people still state this.

 

The Sniper/Gunslinger is a relatively immobile class in general. And, comparatively speaking, MM is the least mobile of the specs because of it's dependance on cover (for both ability usage as well as Foxhole/Sniper's Nest regen). While it'd be false to say that MM or SS should be avoided because of mobility issues -- it's in fact a very strong spec, and there are very few situations where mobility is ever an issue -- it's still accurate to say it's the least mobile. I would even rate it slightly less mobile than Gunnery/Arsenal commando/mercs.

[Mrog]

The Sniper/Gunslinger is a relatively immobile class in general. And, comparatively speaking, MM is the least mobile of the specs because of it's dependance on cover (for both ability usage as well as Foxhole/Sniper's Nest regen). While it'd be false to say that MM or SS should be avoided because of mobility issues -- it's in fact a very strong spec, and there are very few situations where mobility is ever an issue -- it's still accurate to say it's the least mobile. I would even rate it slightly less mobile than Gunnery/Arsenal commando/mercs.

 

Yep, very well put. Everything is relative to comparing sniper builds to sniper builds. Both lethality and MM are not flawed to the point they can't be full time specs. If you want to stay lethality or MM full time, then that will work just fine. The point of thread is to see IF you are willing to swap specs, THEN what bosses are better in what specs. The changes in 1.5 make this a very pain free option to make the swap.

[Mrog]

FYI, I took a first cut of bosses on original post. I don't want to do it completely on parse due to group comp being a large part of numbers, however if I do have one wrong, please let me know. In addition, still don't have a nightmare pilgram recommendation. I have always done as lethality, but marksman may be the better choice.

[TheRealCandyMan]

Yes it's approximatly the same, mine is :

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/gunslinger#6k898dce3d-3c-k

 

And ok i'll try to do what i can to do a MM guide (Sharpshooting for us )

 

And so i do a last Denova HM this night to test a last time before Denova Nightmare (we wipe on the 2nd boss this evening in Nightmare, but this week, they'll die for sure =)) and i did 1668 dps on the 2nd boss (bad because we had to wait the 2 dps on Firebrand they kill trandos 10-15sec after ours snif ^^), 1756 on Vorgath, and 1788 on Warlord Kephess, it will be on the TORParse ranking tomorrow

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/52194

 

PS : and very good parses Synavix =) and yes i have 2 others guys who aoe with me on the writting horror hihi, congratulations for Kephess the Undying, i'll try to do the same in MM this week (and if a tank or one other guy miss a tower, he will be punished hihi ) and so i cheer you to put your logs on TORParse, now the ranking is very interesting i think =)

 

PS2 : i give my youtube channel if you want (what? a stealth add? ^^)

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN20w6RVKdaWiU1VTL2YcbQ/videos?view=0

 

Thank you so much! I look forward to reading it