HoloTweed Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Here were my suggestions from another thread. It is like I said before...it really depends on how many cartel coins it costs. If the cost is low, it's not a problem to unlock it every week, but there should be an option to pay a larger coin amount to unlock it completely. No. Never. THAT will be the total death of the subscription system. I will not pay $15/month for you can get for what amounts to a 2 month payment. You should also be paying that weekly fee per character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) No. Never. THAT will be the total death of the subscription system. I will not pay $15/month for you can get for what amounts to a 2 month payment. You should also be paying that weekly fee per character. Wow. Then don't pay per month. Let me see if I understand this correctly....your dead set against F2P? Or are you against purchasing to unlock game features and believe F2P should be a restricted trial? Just wanted to be clear. Edited October 17, 2012 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloTweed Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow. Then don't pay per month. Let me see if I understand this correctly....your dead set against F2P? Or are you against purchasing to unlock game features and believe F2P should be a restricted trial? Just wanted to be clear. I'm against flat rate permanent game unlocks. That is unfair to me as a paying subscriber. And your whole flippant "then don't pay per month" is exactly my point - your flat rate permanent unlock would destroy the subscription system entirely. Bioware would instantly lose a substantial amount of revenue - enough that they would likely have to shutter the game. That's not the purpose of F2P - the purpose is to make ADDITIONAL revenue, not destroy one revenue system and replace some of the money with a different one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow. Then don't pay per month. Let me see if I understand this correctly....your dead set against F2P? Or are you against purchasing to unlock game features and believe F2P should be a restricted trial? Just wanted to be clear. FTP is not about giving away portions of your game forever with a tiny upfront unlock. It is designed to get you to pay monthly but not think you are spending more than you need. This game is still about monthly revenue (and people's jobs and your future content are tied to that). You need to really leave your ideas behind because they don't want them, don't need them, and they are not helpful to their goal. Trust me if there's anything that EA/Bioware can do correctly it's going to be a FTP system that generates more revenue than the current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 FTP is not about giving away portions of your game forever with a tiny upfront unlock. You're right Tim. FTP is about accessing a file system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 No. Never. THAT will be the total death of the subscription system. I will not pay $15/month for you can get for what amounts to a 2 month payment. You should also be paying that weekly fee per character. Hey, you know what? If in that case, being a subscriber isn't worth it, then don't subscribe and go the new F2P route. Honestly, I play DDO F2P. I could subscribe, but there's some things in the game I don't feel like purchasing (certain classes/races). So instead, I take that $15 a month, and actually buy points instead. With those points, I pay to unlock things, buy cosmetics and experience boosters, and all sorts of other conveniences. Now, generally, I end up paying a little more for some things, but a little less for other things. I don't get the monthly stipend of points, so I generally have to be more careful about purchases. Sometimes I actually spend a little more than $15 a month if there's something I really want. The point is, it's a valid alternative to a subscription, and I'm still giving Turbine my money as much as any subscriber. I lose out on some of the innate subscriber perks, like faster in-town movement, free classes/races, and monthly points. But it still feels like a fair deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You're right Tim. FTP is about accessing a file system! Blast! F2P is a dumb acronym anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Blast! F2P is a dumb acronym anyway. But, it fits the "hip" way all the "cool cats" speak today. *snaps fingers repeatedly on both hands* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloTweed Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hey, you know what? If in that case, being a subscriber isn't worth it, then don't subscribe and go the new F2P route. Honestly, I play DDO F2P. I could subscribe, but there's some things in the game I don't feel like purchasing (certain classes/races). So instead, I take that $15 a month, and actually buy points instead. With those points, I pay to unlock things, buy cosmetics and experience boosters, and all sorts of other conveniences. Now, generally, I end up paying a little more for some things, but a little less for other things. I don't get the monthly stipend of points, so I generally have to be more careful about purchases. Sometimes I actually spend a little more than $15 a month if there's something I really want. The point is, it's a valid alternative to a subscription, and I'm still giving Turbine my money as much as any subscriber. I lose out on some of the innate subscriber perks, like faster in-town movement, free classes/races, and monthly points. But it still feels like a fair deal. Your concept would only work here if they limited the game to F2P players even further than proposed, including limiting the types of characters available to you (maybe only two types on each side instead of four) AND cut the amount of powers you get by 1/3. Otherwise, it would make no sense to let someone pay a small flat-rate to get the game others pay monthly for. Fortunately, your proposal is so bad from a business perspective that there is really no chance it will ever happen. Feel free to continue to troll for it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hey, you know what? If in that case, being a subscriber isn't worth it, then don't subscribe and go the new F2P route. Honestly, I play DDO F2P. I could subscribe, but there's some things in the game I don't feel like purchasing (certain classes/races). So instead, I take that $15 a month, and actually buy points instead. With those points, I pay to unlock things, buy cosmetics and experience boosters, and all sorts of other conveniences. Now, generally, I end up paying a little more for some things, but a little less for other things. I don't get the monthly stipend of points, so I generally have to be more careful about purchases. Sometimes I actually spend a little more than $15 a month if there's something I really want. The point is, it's a valid alternative to a subscription, and I'm still giving Turbine my money as much as any subscriber. I lose out on some of the innate subscriber perks, like faster in-town movement, free classes/races, and monthly points. But it still feels like a fair deal. Thanks. I think we can end this right here. You don't understand the concept of monthly revenue while complaining in other threads about lack of content. There has to be a compelling reason to get people to subscribe. That is still the basis of income in all F2P games. The microtransactions supplement it but it's their guaranteed monthly revenue. Think of this, if SWTOR has 500k subscription (a low estimate) they are clearing a gross of 7.5 million dollars per month before any expenses. Now with a F2P model you can retain many of your current subscribers at that price and then get other gamers to pay as well. The revenue increases but you always want to direct them to the subscription as well because it's the 'safer' option for a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) OR they subscribe. Bottom line, you CAN'T give F2P players the same access as subscription players. WHY should a F2P player get FREE what I have to pay $15/month for? You totally devalue the subscription, and the idea is an f2P option should bring in ADDITIONAL revenue, not cost them paying subscribers. If I pay $15/month I get the right to be entitled. You pay nothing, but get the full 1 - 50 level experience with no gimp on powers or weapons? You get NO entitlement to ask for more. You want more, you pay $$ in Cartel Coins or you subscribe. You cannot equip purple items without paying which I would assume means during 1-50. There are many quest rewards that are purple during 1-50 leveling and the notes indicate those are not free without paying for them with cash. Nor would any purple looted item you got dropped. I don't know what they will do on the GTN but if they let players buy unequippable. Edited October 17, 2012 by PlagaNerezza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prevch Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm a subscriber and I actually think that the F2P option is fairly good. The fact that anyone can jump in the game and do the all of the class stories for free is pretty awesome imo. The only thing that concerns me is that free players have to pay in order to equip purple items. Unless I am misunderstanding something, that changes the game dynamic from: Free to Play -to- Pay To Win and I'm not digging on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is forum access really going to be limited to subscribers? EA./BW rely heavily on the forums to provide customer service and trouble shooting. If F2P players are limited to the in-game "auto-close" ticket system, they are going to be in pretty sad shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is forum access really going to be limited to subscribers? Yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is forum access really going to be limited to subscribers? EA./BW rely heavily on the forums to provide customer service and trouble shooting. If F2P players are limited to the in-game "auto-close" ticket system, they are going to be in pretty sad shape. You can view them but you can't post. Please don't lick the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izorii Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think some of the restrictions are too harsh. They hope by limiting F2P people will get to 50 and then sub might work or people will get to 50 and quit. I seem to think quit will be the option most people take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Thanks. I think we can end this right here. You don't understand the concept of monthly revenue while complaining in other threads about lack of content. There has to be a compelling reason to get people to subscribe. That is still the basis of income in all F2P games. The microtransactions supplement it but it's their guaranteed monthly revenue. Think of this, if SWTOR has 500k subscription (a low estimate) they are clearing a gross of 7.5 million dollars per month before any expenses. Now with a F2P model you can retain many of your current subscribers at that price and then get other gamers to pay as well. The revenue increases but you always want to direct them to the subscription as well because it's the 'safer' option for a company. Which is why you incentivize people to be a subscriber. Easier access to content, don't have to keep up purchases for new content, get free store currency. You can still sell content to F2P at a one-time fee, and still make it enticing to be a subscriber. Tell me, how does a game like GW2 survive without a monthly fee? They must be really hurting since they aren't getting any monthly dollars from their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think some of the restrictions are too harsh. They hope by limiting F2P people will get to 50 and then sub might work or people will get to 50 and quit. I seem to think quit will be the option most people take. If this happens EAware will change the model or shut the game down. They will have no other options. I think, however, that this is not the most probable outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You can view them but you can't post. Please don't lick the glass. I think everyone should have access to the customer service forum, or a vastly improved in-game customer service system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is forum access really going to be limited to subscribers? EA./BW rely heavily on the forums to provide customer service and trouble shooting. If F2P players are limited to the in-game "auto-close" ticket system, they are going to be in pretty sad shape. Yes. Some people are happy about that, but they are fooling themselves really. A F2P customer will be a paying customer as well, and should have some communication with other players and the developers. Communication is what keeps players invested in the game. Without it, players have less reason to stay with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If this happens EAware will change the model or shut the game down. They will have no other options. I think, however, that this is not the most probable outcome. Your opinion. I think quitting will be the most likely option. They got to have fun playing from 1-50. They find out there's all these restrictions, and they leave. Do we really want EA to shut the game down? I personally don't, as I really have enjoyed my time here. But these restrictions and unlocks do not give me much hope for F2P being a fresh breath of life into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evensong Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm a subscriber and I actually think that the F2P option is fairly good. The fact that anyone can jump in the game and do the all of the class stories for free is pretty awesome imo. The only thing that concerns me is that free players have to pay in order to equip purple items. Unless I am misunderstanding something, that changes the game dynamic from: Free to Play -to- Pay To Win and I'm not digging on that. Unlocking purple items is not the same as buying purple items in cash shop. That would be my definition of P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Which is why you incentivize people to be a subscriber. Easier access to content, don't have to keep up purchases for new content, get free store currency. You can still sell content to F2P at a one-time fee, and still make it enticing to be a subscriber. Tell me, how does a game like GW2 survive without a monthly fee? They must be really hurting since they aren't getting any monthly dollars from their players. We'll never know about GW2 actually. There system is a micro transaction model based primarily on retail box sale revenue. They won't be releasing useful numbers either since everyone, even the people that bought it and left after a day will be an 'active account' for life and there is no investors call for everyone to vulture for negative info. That's the other thing people forget. SWTOR made it's initial budget back on retail box sales. Guild Wars 2 will be living off any profit they cleared from that same income. Undoubtedly their developer budget will be significantly smaller and they will be focused on retail expansions to drive their operating revenue. If this will work long term I don't know. I'd bet they need 1-2 expansions per year to keep up the interest and cash flowing. I also believe with a small dev team that's not possible to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwarr Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Unlocking purple items is not the same as buying purple items in cash shop. That would be my definition of P2W. If I can't use the purple Item without payment, how is it functionally different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Yes. Some people are happy about that, but they are fooling themselves really. A F2P customer will be a paying customer as well, and should have some communication with other players and the developers. Communication is what keeps players invested in the game. Without it, players have less reason to stay with the game. It's not really a 2 way street as it is. They don't come into the forums and ask you what they should start working on for 1.7. Your feedback is useful to a point but not as an individual. Not to worry though there will be plenty of people here that have useful things to say even if it's pointless to be to be a single voice among many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts