Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[UncelSam]

We just need to focus so BW can get a clear line of how the premades will be separated from PUGs.

[weyby]

You might, i dunno how good you actually are, there's no measuring stick other than peoples egos. Certain classes are intended to like 3 global people (stealth classes who open on you).

 

Pointing to a 4v1 fight and going OMG PREMADES OP however is just assuming that everyone you run into in regs should be doing sub 200k damage over the course of the wz though.

 

 

Edit: also Op is a sin of some variety who got none of their defensive buttons up. Welcome to playing a sin, if you aren't johnny on the spot with your cooldowns you die in a few globals.

 

did you even bother to read or shall repeat my self? I KNOW when I face a premade and when im not.

Let me tell you a story. I came in late into a AHG and I went to the other pylon 4 was going their not a premade and I was not in a premade team- but I was apparently that good that I held them of from capping for 1:45 seconds, next I attacked again hold them of for the entire round couse they were dumb enough to chase me around, now 3rd and last I was with the team, I attacked but was hold of by 4 and 1 capped I died, returned to the pylon and this time 4 was on me and a stealthier capped their pylon, but the other tem wasn't bad just stupid.

[Raazmir]

Look at the timing, at the damage, at the guild. All the topics of this thread all condensed in 20 seconds of video.

 

BTW When I get attacked by 4 "regular" people I do just fine.

 

That's more a testament to how little damage those "regular" people throw out than it is a testament to how awesome you are.

[Doomsdaycomes]

So they focus fired down targets. A PuG group can do that just as easily if they know what they are doing and are paying attention to the match instead of just trying to top the damage meters.

 

^

 

This isn't a "Denying that Premades tend to rock face" or anything post but quite simply if it's 4 vs 1... the 1 is going to die.

 

To answer the other question some one posted: No, if you are 4 vs 1 of equally skilled players, you're not suppose to be able to hold 4 people off for a minute. Maybe that's what you're use to, but that's not how it's suppose to work.

 

You've got 15 seconds tops (if that). If you're solo and by a node... you better have called it in the 15 seconds it took them to get to you. If there's 4 vs You... somewhere your team is 7 vs 4... 2-3 can't respond and make it there in 30 seconds (or less) from your call... I think you found the problem.

[DariusCalera]

perhaps its because they don't think me as someone who they have to pop their DCs on. now lets take if im pop my DCs when I need to, I can hold them and even take 2 them of them down before I go down, but its rare that im that lucky that I take 2 of them down.

 

so if I gonna understand you right- If we are equal skilled I can't hold of 4ppl for a minute?

 

Correct.

 

If 4 skilled players decide that you are going to die, then you are going to do it in a short, brutal manner.

[DariusCalera]

did you even bother to read or shall repeat my self? I KNOW when I face a premade and when im not.

Let me tell you a story. I came in late into a AHG and I went to the other pylon 4 was going their not a premade and I was not in a premade team- but I was apparently that good that I held them of from capping for 1:45 seconds, next I attacked again hold them of for the entire round couse they were dumb enough to chase me around, now 3rd and last I was with the team, I attacked but was hold of by 4 and 1 capped I died, returned to the pylon and this time 4 was on me and a stealthier capped their pylon, but the other tem wasn't bad just stupid.

 

So what's the difference between being bad and being stupid?

[weyby]

^

 

 

 

To answer the other question some one posted: No, if you are 4 vs 1 of equally skilled players, you're not suppose to be able to hold 4 people off for a minute. Maybe that's what you're use to, but that's not how it's suppose to work.

 

You've got 15 seconds tops (if that). If you're solo and by a node... you better have called it in the 15 seconds it took them to get to you. If there's 4 vs You... somewhere your team is 7 vs 4... 2-3 can't respond and make it there in 30 seconds (or less) from your call... I think you found the problem.

 

ok read the post pls. I was the one who was attacking and I CAN hold of 4 equally skilled as me, just a matter on using my defensive coldowns and use a little quote here "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sunztu Art of war

[Vaerah]

So they focus fired down targets. A PuG group can do that just as easily if they know what they are doing and are paying attention to the match instead of just trying to top the damage meters.

 

The PUGs DO NOT "know what they are doing" and all the other drivel you are spewing. There's maybe 1 out of 100 matches where a super famous player leads and the other actually do what he says. All the other 99 don't.

 

Never seen more of an ostrich attitude than this. You seem to play some alien MMO where randoms are not randoms but 1 member of top guild each.

[weyby]

So what's the difference between being bad and being stupid?

 

if your bad you have no clue at all, if your stupid you will make a mistake.

we all makes mistakes, well unless YOU think you are a god then I can prove you wrong and prove you are an idiot

[Raazmir]

ok read the post pls. I was the one who was attacking and I CAN hold of 4 equally skilled as me, just a matter on using my defensive coldowns and use a little quote here "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sunztu Art of war

 

There is always a mathematically optimal option in games - me, every time someone tries to use "fighting spirit" or "knowledge of all the other classes" to justify engaging against terrible odds.

 

And if you're holding people off 4 on 1 you're better than they are, they are not equally skilled.

[Doomsdaycomes]

ok read the post pls. I was the one who was attacking and I CAN hold of 4 equally skilled as me, just a matter on using my defensive coldowns and use a little quote here "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sunztu Art of war

 

No, you were not equally skilled then.

 

I do not get drawn off the node.

I do not let my eye off the node.

I do not chase when defending.

 

You tried something, they fell for it.

 

Now answer me this:

 

If each player is suppose to be able to hold off 4 players for 1 minute using cool down, most cool downs are between 1 and 2 minutes, and you have 8 players to a team... How does anything get capped? Even if you went against 8 by 2's... the first 2 hold 8 for 1 minute. The second 2 hold 8 for 1 minute, the first two have all their CD's back and it's the 3rd 2's turn. The 2nd 2 have all their CD's back and it's the 4th 2's turn...

 

Seriously, think about that.

[Vaerah]

Correct.

 

If 4 skilled players decide that you are going to die, then you are going to do it in a short, brutal manner.

 

If they are not a top premade they won't coordinate stealth nor "walk as one man" a la DAoC like the guys in the video do. I am guarding nodes (I hate it but you know, everyone demand the shadow to...) hours a day, I am kinda accustomed at being surprise attacked by more than 1 player. Usually just popping my CDs I can call for help and have them get close enough to throw a saber or something on the cappers after I died.

[weyby]

There is always a mathematically optimal option in games - me, every time someone tries to use "fighting spirit" or "knowledge of all the other classes" to justify engaging against terrible odds.

 

And if you're holding people off 4 on 1 you're better than they are, they are not equally skilled.

 

alright, then I can tell you something im a former RTS guy for 10 years have been amongst the top 50 in the world (that's by now the 5 years ago), if I faced a 3 man team I could defeat them just like that, now im just a casul player in RTS with some knowledge, since I have been gone from the "pro league" for 5 years, I can still beat 3 ppl but this time it takes little longer, so tell me what's the difference? if they same knowledge (more or less and im out practice) but haven't been a pro and been amongst the top 50 in the world pls answer on that

Edited July 14, 2013 by weyby

[Aetrus]

so if I gonna understand you right- If we are equal skilled I can't hold of 4ppl for a minute?

Let's break this down with logic. If they are equally skilled as you, that means that one of them equals you (duh, Aetrus.) Which means that 1v1 you would certainly have your hands full excepting for obvious class mismatches like mara vs. merc. So if there are 4 of them, that would basically equate to you fighting 1 person who had 4x your skill. Meaning you would die...quickly. If you say something like, "No, I've fought people who had like 4-5x my skill and lasted for at least a minute" I will reach through the computer and slap you, because no.

 

The only way this scenario breaks down is if you are so bad you keyboard turn, click abilities, and only play with 1-2 quickbars. Then maybe you're right - if those 4 were equally skilled, they still probably wouldn't be able to kill you in a timely manner because they're too awful to do so.

[weyby]

No, you were not equally skilled then.

 

I do not get drawn off the node.

I do not let my eye off the node.

I do not chase when defending.

 

You tried something, they fell for it.

 

Now answer me this:

 

If each player is suppose to be able to hold off 4 players for 1 minute using cool down, most cool downs are between 1 and 2 minutes, and you have 8 players to a team... How does anything get capped? Even if you went against 8 by 2's... the first 2 hold 8 for 1 minute. The second 2 hold 8 for 1 minute, the first two have all their CD's back and it's the 3rd 2's turn. The 2nd 2 have all their CD's back and it's the 4th 2's turn...

 

Seriously, think about that.

 

did I say you Einstein?

 

just because the felt for it doesn't mean they are bad or not skilled. just mean I was more intelligent than they was.

 

did I mention every player? no

but all players can do it if they are good enough but clearly neither you or the others who disagrees with me are good then, (just a guess)

[Raazmir]

If they are not a top premade they won't coordinate stealth nor "walk as one man" a la DAoC like the guys in the video do. I am guarding nodes (I hate it but you know, everyone demand the shadow to...) hours a day, I am kinda accustomed at being surprise attacked by more than 1 player. Usually just popping my CDs I can call for help and have them get close enough to throw a saber or something on the cappers after I died.

 

Bunk, our operative used group stealth regularly, she did it by marking herself and saying "group stealth on gear, heading to X, dps target is reticle" And as they added the visual to the group stealth ability, it's actually really really really simple to stay close enough to remain within it...and as you can hotkey marking a target, target switching (if people pay attention) is pretty easy.

 

Now if you're pugged with skilled players, they'll go with it...seen it happen a million times.

[Doomsdaycomes]

If they are not a top premade they won't coordinate stealth nor "walk as one man" a la DAoC like the guys in the video do. I am guarding nodes (I hate it but you know, everyone demand the shadow to...) hours a day, I am kinda accustomed at being surprise attacked by more than 1 player. Usually just popping my CDs I can call for help and have them get close enough to throw a saber or something on the cappers after I died.

 

Let's see...

 

Sin used it's opener while a marauder lept from it's combat stealth. That's 2 on you. Then it looks like an operative opened up a split second later with a shot (not even their opener) presumable to stop your cap. Finally, a 4th operative did something (looks like a grenade) after you're almost dead.

 

3 people attempting to do 1 thing... stop you from capping. All four had a stealth, and the marauder was smart enough not to let you see him. There's nothing here that screams premade, walking as one, etc... just 1 person getting melted while CC'ed (for most of the encounter) by 4 people.

[DariusCalera]

The PUGs DO NOT "know what they are doing" and all the other drivel you are spewing. There's maybe 1 out of 100 matches where a super famous player leads and the other actually do what he says. All the other 99 don't.

 

Never seen more of an ostrich attitude than this. You seem to play some alien MMO where randoms are not randoms but 1 member of top guild each.

 

Then you have been in some extremely bad PuGs that have not learned the basics of PvP.

 

Focus firing down a healer, or any target for that matter, is not some super secret technique that only premades know.

 

In a large meat grinder type engagement, it doesn't take a lot to mark a healer and relay in OPs chat "Healer Marked". There is even less for them to do if there is 4 of them and only 1 of you.

 

If the PuGs that you have been in are unwilling, or incapable, of doing that then the issue is not with the premades but with the caliber of players on your team.

[weyby]

Let's break this down with logic. If they are equally skilled as you, that means that one of them equals you (duh, Aetrus.) Which means that 1v1 you would certainly have your hands full excepting for obvious class mismatches like mara vs. merc. So if there are 4 of them, that would basically equate to you fighting 1 person who had 4x your skill. Meaning you would die...quickly. If you say something like, "No, I've fought people who had like 4-5x my skill and lasted for at least a minute" I will reach through the computer and slap you, because no.

 

The only way this scenario breaks down is if you are so bad you keyboard turn, click abilities, and only play with 1-2 quickbars. Then maybe you're right - if those 4 were equally skilled, they still probably wouldn't be able to kill you in a timely manner because they're too awful to do so.

 

you don't read apparently couse never said they were above my skill, I said for the 50ths time I held them from capping for a minute can do it for more If that's the case. now I can easily kill of 4 bad players who tries to cap something, if they are my skill lvl. I just need to hold them of and be lucky enough to have that moment of pure glory to kill of 2 of them.

Edited July 14, 2013 by weyby

[Doomsdaycomes]

did I say you Einstein?

 

just because the felt for it doesn't mean they are bad or not skilled. just mean I was more intelligent than they was.

 

did I mention every player? no

but all players can do it if they are good enough but clearly neither you or the others who disagrees with me are good then, (just a guess)

 

If you are more intelligent then they are, you are more skilled.

 

You tried to do something that puts them at a disadvantage.

 

They fell for it.

 

You were more skilled.

 

Had you encountered someone of equal or greater skill, they wouldn't have fell for a simple trick. Like wise, if you encounter a group of 4 equally skilled players, they'll kill you quickly despite CD's. You pop defensive CD's, they Pop offensive, they have 4 sources of significant dps versus your 1 pool of health, you have 1 significant source of dps versus their 4 pools of health.

[Raazmir]

They aren't the one not reading....if you kill 2 people...before they kill you, and there are 4 of them, they aren't "equally skilled" theyve unleashed 4X the damage youve done in the same globals you killed 1 of them in and apparently didn't kill you.

 

If there's an "equally skilled" tank and healer combo there, you won't kill any of them.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Raazmir

[Aetrus]

you don't read apparently couse never said they were above my skill, I said for the 50ths time I held them from capping for a minute can do it for more If that's the case. now I can easily kill of 4 bad players who tries to cap something, if they are my skill lvl. I just need to hold them of and be lucky enough to have that moment of pure glory to kill of 2 of them.

Storytime: 2 nights ago I was on my marauder solo queuing the entire day, switched into IDGAF-mode and running Annihilation. I was playing a Novare match where my team was so bad, I felt like they didn't deserve to get carried by me or win. So, I decided to go south to a node the enemy held and just suicide. 3 people were defending. It was just me attacking. But, you know, ego kicks in, so I figure I gotta make this good and can't go down like a b*tch...I end up 1v3ing and killing all of them. Then the cap is just sitting there, so I'm like, what the hell...cap it. Win game. I was actually more pissed off that we won than I would have been had we lost. Anyway, those guys defending south were garbage. It's the only reason I 1v3'd and won. And if you can 1v4 and kill 2, sorry but the players you're fighting against are trash as well. And it should be obvious if you have any cognitive ability whatsoever, which from reading your posts I'm beginning to question.

[weyby]

If you are more intelligent then they are, you are more skilled.

 

You tried to do something that puts them at a disadvantage.

 

They fell for it.

 

You were more skilled.

 

Had you encountered someone of equal or greater skill, they wouldn't have fell for a simple trick. Like wise, if you encounter a group of 4 equally skilled players, they'll kill you quickly despite CD's. You pop defensive CD's, they Pop offensive, they have 4 sources of significant dps versus your 1 pool of health, you have 1 significant source of dps versus their 4 pools of health.

 

Intelligence are measured as a skill in RTS, now just because im more clever than man next to me in an MMO doesn't mean I have more skill in playing an MMO than he has, I can be more intelligent than a guy who have played a MMO for 10 years, but my skill lvl aren't magically getting to his lvl due to my intelligence, now I can think differently, read the game in another way yes, but that doesn't mean im better than him

[weyby]

Storytime: 2 nights ago I was on my marauder solo queuing the entire day, switched into IDGAF-mode and running Annihilation. I was playing a Novare match where my team was so bad, I felt like they didn't deserve to get carried by me or win. So, I decided to go south to a node the enemy held and just suicide. 3 people were defending. It was just me attacking. But, you know, ego kicks in, so I figure I gotta make this good and can't go down like a b*tch...I end up 1v3ing and killing all of them. Then the cap is just sitting there, so I'm like, what the hell...cap it. Win game. I was actually more pissed off that we won than I would have been had we lost. Anyway, those guys defending south were garbage. It's the only reason I 1v3'd and won. And if you can 1v4 and kill 2, sorry but the players you're fighting against are trash as well. And it should be obvious if you have any cognitive ability whatsoever, which from reading your posts I'm beginning to question.

 

I can be lucky to kill them of yes unless they as you say are garbage then I kill them of 100%. but my only mission when im going there alone is to give my team an advantage of fighting 6 on 4 and maybe be so dam lucky that the other team needs to sent in more ppl to help them it happens if its bad players

[Doomsdaycomes]

Intelligence are measured as a skill in RTS, now just because im more clever than man next to me in an MMO doesn't mean I have more skill in playing an MMO than he has, I can be more intelligent than a guy who have played a MMO for 10 years, but my skill lvl aren't magically getting to his lvl due to my intelligence, now I can think differently, read the game in another way yes, but that doesn't mean im better than him

 

It all factors in. Intelligence, hand-eye, experience, all factors into skill.

 

Fact. If you let yourself get lured off a node, you lack skill.

 

Fact. If you can't kill someone one when you have 3-4 team mates without one of you dying... you lack skill.

 

Seriously, think about it for a second.

 

Each class (supposedly) deals relatively equal damage. So if you can kill someone in 10 seconds (I can, don't know about you), then 4 of you should kill an equal player in 2.5 Simple, simple math.