An in-depth look at: Order 66

[Wolfninjajedi]

I doubt the Jedi knew of Order 66. If they did know, they would have been more wary of the Clones. When Order 66 was initiated, the Jedi were completely surprised by it. Had Order 66 been something that the Jedi knew, they would have seen it coming, especially with Palpatine being Sidious. The other orders aren't even well known. These were secret orders that only a few indivduals knew of. Particularly Sidious.

 

Oh, could also do threads about characters too. Been thinking of doing, a few myself.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Oh, could also do threads about characters too. Been thinking of doing, a few myself.

 

I've actually been thinking of doing one on Qui-Gon Jinn. While he was in the movies, he doesn't really get the respect he deserves. This is most likely due to the fact that he got killed by Maul.

[Uluain]

I would not say that Palpatine's plan was perfect.

 

1. There is no way Palpatine could have ensured that every Jedi was surrounded by a group of clones at the exact moment that Anakin and the Jedi would discover his true intentions.

That was the brilliance of putting the Jedi in a situation where they needed to command the army. Many died on Geononsis. Many more died fighting the Clone Wars. Any capable Jedi was likely directing a detachment of troops.

 

2. The clones were well trained, but not all squads would be successful in taking out a Jedi, or possibly multiple Jedi. Not all Jedi would be as oblivious as, say, Aayla Secura.

A weakness in Jedi training is to focus on the particular goal at hand. They were probing ahead for danger. Years of having clone troops as reliable, loyal support lulled them into not feeling they needed to focus in that direction.

 

3. The distress signal should not fool every Jedi. Would the remaining Jedi not feel the echoes of the deaths of their fellow Jedi? Jedi can feel these kinds of things all the time, in games, books, and even the movies.

Highly skilled Jedi, when not already focussed on monitoring other possibilities. We see Anakin/Vader, Obi-Wan and Yoda do this, but no one else – other than Mace Windu's sensing late in the game a plot to destroy the Jedi.

 

4. Obi-Wan could have finished Anakin off - he bested him after all. Even with Anakin's survival, his robotic state severely weakens the final stage of Order 66.

Obi-Wan couldn't finish Anakin off, and knew as much when Yoda assigned him his task, just as Luke knew he could not destroy his own father. This was ultimately fatal to Sidious' scheme, however, so I will give it to you as a flaw in his plan that he was unable to forsee.

 

5. Yoda could have beaten Palpatine himself. If their positions in the senate pod were reversed, it would have been Palpatine falling to defeat instead of Yoda.

Yoda's fall wasn't fatal and it is safe to assume Sidious' would not have been able. Yoda retreated because he knew that Sidious had an army who could surround and overwhelm him. He was a skilled Jedi Master, but we know Jedi could be overwhelmed when sufficiently outnumbered – that is what the Geonosis arena battle was meant to establish. Yoda did not have an army to throw at Sidious.

 

In conclusion, I think that Palpatine was lucky to eliminate as many Jedi as he did. I also think that the more Jedi survive Order 66, the more realistic it becomes. Jedi outmatch clones any day of the week, surprised or not.

One on one, sure they do. But even battle droids were able to kill them in sufficient numbers. The clones had the element of surprise, for reasons stated above. Obi-Wan and Yoda were both lucky to escape. Others did as well – but not many, and not enough to stage an effective counteroffensive.

 

Sidious was himself gifted with the Force and able to dedicate his whole attention to his master plan. Order 66 was one element in his revenge, which was more largely realized by making the Jedi – champions of peace – devote years to fighting a war. Corrupting their Chosen One to turn against them was the cherry on top. Order 66 was a key tactical stroke, but not the only stage of the game.

[PepiDeto]

I doubt the Jedi knew of Order 66. If they did know, they would have been more wary of the Clones. When Order 66 was initiated, the Jedi were completely surprised by it. Had Order 66 been something that the Jedi knew, they would have seen it coming, especially with Palpatine being Sidious. The other orders aren't even well known. These were secret orders that only a few indivduals knew of. Particularly Sidious.

 

But you also have to remember Mace Windu never had the chance to tell anyone else about the fact that Palpatine was Sidious. Anakin told him right before he went to confront him about the death of General Grievous. If the other jedi had known about that fact that Palpatine was indeed Sidious you are right they would have seen it coming. But since they had no idea except for Windu and the others who went with him they were al blindsided by it.

[Aurbere]

But you also have to remember Mace Windu never had the chance to tell anyone else about the fact that Palpatine was Sidious. Anakin told him right before he went to confront him about the death of General Grievous. If the other jedi had known about that fact that Palpatine was indeed Sidious you are right they would have seen it coming. But since they had no idea except for Windu and the others who went with him they were al blindsided by it.

 

This is correct, but what I was saying that if the Jedi knew about Order 66, as well as the other orders, they wouldn't have been so effectively wiped out.

[Spero_Helix]

I agree. I think far too many Jedi survived such an event. Order 66 was suppose to be the Sith's crowning achievement, but far too many Jedi survived it. I understand that certain Jedi could survive it, but a lot of meaningless Jedi with nothing really remarkable about them survived.

 

I guess the Jedi Purge took out those that did survive, but not all of them. I really think that the Old Jedi Order should have dies with Yoda. His death marked the beginning of a new era of Jedi. But now we have old Jedi popping up out of nowhere.

 

It was all about being in the wrong or right place at a specific time. Yes, some truly insignificant Jedi survived, but think of how many of the Order's greatest fell. It was essentially a matter of luck. Obi-Wan himself would have died if Boga hadn't protected him. It's all a matter of circumstance on who survived and who didn't.

 

And to all of you saying that too many Jedi survived, I disagree. Yes, it was a moment of glory for the Sith, the culmination of a thousand years of hiding and plotting, but think of how many Jedi there were in the galaxy at that time. I've seen numbers vary from anywhere between 10,000 to several hundred thousand. When you really think about it, how probably is it that all but two Jedi would die? Think of how many just happen to be away from their troops; think of how many just somehow manage to escape. Even if you figure 99% of the Jedi were wiped out, you still have 100 Jedi roaming the galaxy (and that's going with the low estimation of 10,000). After hearing that information, doesn't a few dozen surviving Jedi sound not as bad?

[Aurbere]

It was all about being in the wrong or right place at a specific time. Yes, some truly insignificant Jedi survived, but think of how many of the Order's greatest fell. It was essentially a matter of luck. Obi-Wan himself would have died if Boga hadn't protected him. It's all a matter of circumstance on who survived and who didn't.

 

And to all of you saying that too many Jedi survived, I disagree. Yes, it was a moment of glory for the Sith, the culmination of a thousand years of hiding and plotting, but think of how many Jedi there were in the galaxy at that time. I've seen numbers vary from anywhere between 10,000 to several hundred thousand. When you really think about it, how probably is it that all but two Jedi would die? Think of how many just happen to be away from their troops; think of how many just somehow manage to escape. Even if you figure 99% of the Jedi were wiped out, you still have 100 Jedi roaming the galaxy (and that's going with the low estimation of 10,000). After hearing that information, doesn't a few dozen surviving Jedi sound not as bad?

 

Well we know several Jedi survived order 66, but the second attack on the Order was meant to kill the rest of them. The Jedi Purge was meant to kill every other Jedi. We didn't really need Old Jedi Order Jedi being involved in the New Jedi Order. The New Jedi Order was meant to be a new (hence) era of Jedi. But now we have Old Jedi being apart of the NJO.

 

It's another one of those things that I'm not happy about.

[Spero_Helix]

Well we know several Jedi survived order 66, but the second attack on the Order was meant to kill the rest of them. The Jedi Purge was meant to kill every other Jedi. We didn't really need Old Jedi Order Jedi being involved in the New Jedi Order. The New Jedi Order was meant to be a new (hence) era of Jedi. But now we have Old Jedi being apart of the NJO.

 

It's another one of those things that I'm not happy about.

 

I used to be frustrated about that as well. But then I realized, if there were Jedi in hiding and a new Jedi Order was formed, why would they stay hidden? I don't know why they hid that long; Luke could have used them during the Yuuzhan Vong War, but they still came out of hiding eventually to assist and provide their wisdom. It would make no sense to stay in hiding.

[Aurbere]

I used to be frustrated about that as well. But then I realized, if there were Jedi in hiding and a new Jedi Order was formed, why would they stay hidden? I don't know why they hid that long; Luke could have used them during the Yuuzhan Vong War, but they still came out of hiding eventually to assist and provide their wisdom. It would make no sense to stay in hiding.

 

I suppose you are right, but I guess I feel like the old Jedi Order should have died with Yoda.

 

Bah, I guess it doesn't matter. Not any more at least.

[Spero_Helix]

I suppose you are right, but I guess I feel like the old Jedi Order should have died with Yoda.

 

Bah, I guess it doesn't matter. Not any more at least.

 

True. There are many things we may be discontented with, but, alas, we must simply go along with what happens..

[Aurbere]

True. There are many things we may be discontented with, but, alas, we must simply go along with what happens..

 

Yeah. It's sort of like some of the changes to the OT. We may not like them, but these changes are something we have accept.

[PepiDeto]

This is correct, but what I was saying that if the Jedi knew about Order 66, as well as the other orders, they wouldn't have been so effectively wiped out.

 

But also if the Jedi thought that the order was just a contingency order and they had no intention to betray the republic or they completely trusted their clone commanders to make their own decisions they would have had no reason to not approve it or know about it. There was also a contingency order to kill the chancellor if the need arose so if Mace Windu had gone to the senate and told them before he confronted Palpatine and they declared him unfit the clones would have turned on Palpatine so yes I think the Jedi knew and approved of it thinking it would never be used....

[DarknessInLight]

I suppose you are right, but I guess I feel like the old Jedi Order should have died with Yoda.

 

Bah, I guess it doesn't matter. Not any more at least.

 

I don't feel that the Jedi Order died with Yoda. Remember what Yoda tells Luke just before becoming one with the Force,

 

When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be. Pass on what you have learned.

 

The Order was salvaged by the concerted efforts of Yoda, Obi Wan Kenobi and ultimately, Luke Skywalker.

Some of the Jedi who survived the Jedi Purge went on to assist the Order in their own ways and ensured its survival. Here are a few examples:

 

Qu Rahn: Tried to keep the location of the fabled Valley of the Jedi secret from the Miralukan Dark Jedi Jerec. Put Kyle Katarn upon the path to becoming a Jedi Knight.

 

Empayatos Brand: Assisted in finally defeating Darth Sidious and ending his threat once and for all.

 

Rahm Kota: Played a critical role in helping to establish the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Trained Galen Marek in the ways of the Jedi.

Edited September 22, 2012 by DarknessInLight

[Aurbere]

But also if the Jedi thought that the order was just a contingency order and they had no intention to betray the republic or they completely trusted their clone commanders to make their own decisions they would have had no reason to not approve it or know about it. There was also a contingency order to kill the chancellor if the need arose so if Mace Windu had gone to the senate and told them before he confronted Palpatine and they declared him unfit the clones would have turned on Palpatine so yes I think the Jedi knew and approved of it thinking it would never be used....

 

That makes sense, but I know I wouldn't trust the clones. Maybe that is the real reason Kota conscripted his own army.

[Aurbere]

I don't feel that the Jedi Order died with Yoda. Remember what Yoda tells Luke just before becoming one with the Force,

 

When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be. Pass on what you have learned.

 

The Order was salvaged by the concerted efforts of Yoda, Obi Wan Kenobi and ultimately, Luke Skywalker.

Some of the Jedi who survived the Jedi Purge went on to assist the Order in their own ways and ensured its survival. Here are a few examples:

 

Qu Rahn: Tried to keep the location of the fabled Valley of the Jedi secret from the Miralukan Dark Jedi Jerec. Put Kyle Katarn upon the path to becoming a Jedi Knight.

 

Empayatos Brand: Assisted in finally defeating Darth Sidious and ending his threat once and for all.

 

Rahm Kota: Played a critical role in helping to establish the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Trained Galen Marek in the ways of the Jedi.

 

I said Old Jedi Order. Yoda's Order should have died with him. Meaning he should have been the last of the Jedi, passing the torch to a new era of Jedi. But it doesn't matter anymore.

[Vepariga]

Few too many survived just because of EU writers,official G-canon version would be that only a handful would have survived. Bit lame reading about pointless jedi hiding in caves that never did anything remarkable just cuz of reasons.

[Aurbere]

Few too many survived just because of EU writers,official G-canon version would be that only a handful would have survived. Bit lame reading about pointless jedi hiding in caves that never did anything remarkable just cuz of reasons.

 

Well they had to find some wayto make the time between 3 and 4 interesting. /sarcasm.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well they had to find some wayto make the time between 3 and 4 interesting. /sarcasm.

 

Ya, apparently the Rebellion fighting against the Empire wasn't good enough.

[Aurbere]

Ya, apparently the Rebellion fighting against the Empire wasn't good enough.

 

I would have loved a book on some of the rebellions first victories against the Empire. Or even one where Mon Mothma is trying to gather more allies. There is such a great story of how a ragtag group of rebels took down an Empire. Why can't we have more of those stories?

[Wolfninjajedi]

I would have loved a book on some of the rebellions first victories against the Empire. Or even one where Mon Mothma is trying to gather more allies. There is such a great story of how a ragtag group of rebels took down an Empire. Why can't we have more of those stories?

 

Aren't there stories like that? Or are they just implied? I know the Rebs stealing X-wings was a story right?

[Aurbere]

Aren't there stories like that? Or are they just implied? I know the Rebs stealing X-wings was a story right?

 

I've never seen any, but I do believe the Rebels stealing the X-Wings is canon. Seems like something they'd do. I would love to see more Thrawn stuff besides the trilogy and duology. Maybe books that chronicle his activities in the Unknown Regions. I know there is some documentation on it, but I would love for Zahn to come back and make a Thrawn story that just blows everything else out of the water.

[DarknessInLight]

I would have loved a book on some of the rebellions first victories against the Empire. Or even one where Mon Mothma is trying to gather more allies. There is such a great story of how a ragtag group of rebels took down an Empire. Why can't we have more of those stories?

 

The Rebellion's first REAL Victory against the Empire came at the Battle of Turkana.

 

The Rebel Fleet(under the command of Admiral Ackbar) was in orbit over the planet Turkana, when a detachment of the Imperial Navy, numbering 10 Imperial class Star Destroyers, came out of Hyperspace and attacked the fleet. The Rebels launched their newly acquired Incom T-65 X Wing Starfighters. The Imperial fighters and bombers launched took heavy losses and the Imperial Navy withdrew its forces to avoid a prolonged battle.

Edited September 23, 2012 by DarknessInLight

[DarknessInLight]

I've never seen any, but I do believe the Rebels stealing the X-Wings is canon.

 

It actually is Canon. The entire Incom and Subpro engineering team building the starfighters defected to the Rebel Alliance, with the plans, and prototypes hidden on Fresia. Everyone knows that the ancestor to the X-Wing was the Z-95 Headhunter, also built by Incom, with improvement ideas taken from the ARC-170 clone starfighter. Four prototypes were "liberated" during the Battle of Fresia. The T-65 then had it's first test at the Battle of Turkana.

[Aurbere]

It actually is Canon. The entire Incom and Subpro engineering team building the starfighters defected to the Rebel Alliance, with the plans, and prototypes hidden on Fresia. Everyone knows that the ancestor to the X-Wing was the Z-95 Headhunter, also built by Incom, with improvement ideas taken from the ARC-170 clone starfighter. Four prototypes were "liberated" during the Battle of Fresia. The T-65 then had it's first test at the Battle of Turkana.

 

I've only heard of the rebels stealing the X-Wings from EAW. That's why I wasn't sure if it was canon.

[Kaisernick]

I would not say that Palpatine's plan was perfect.

 

1. There is no way Palpatine could have ensured that every Jedi was surrounded by a group of clones at the exact moment that Anakin and the Jedi would discover his true intentions.

 

2. The clones were well trained, but not all squads would be successful in taking out a Jedi, or possibly multiple Jedi. Not all Jedi would be as oblivious as, say, Aayla Secura.

 

3. The distress signal should not fool every Jedi. Would the remaining Jedi not feel the echoes of the deaths of their fellow Jedi? Jedi can feel these kinds of things all the time, in games, books, and even the movies.

 

4. Obi-Wan could have finished Anakin off - he bested him after all. Even with Anakin's survival, his robotic state severely weakens the final stage of Order 66.

 

5. Yoda could have beaten Palpatine himself. If their positions in the senate pod were reversed, it would have been Palpatine falling to defeat instead of Yoda.

 

In conclusion, I think that Palpatine was lucky to eliminate as many Jedi as he did. I also think that the more Jedi survive Order 66, the more realistic it becomes. Jedi outmatch clones any day of the week, surprised or not.

 

ok so he didnt get them all but

Almost to a man, the clones performed spectacularly; an official estimate indicated that out of nearly ten thousand Jedi, fewer than one hundred survived the initial wave—99% of the Order had been eliminated at a stroke.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Order_66 no sith has even come close to doing that.