Beniboybling Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Round 1 was a clear victory to Asajj Ventress, Bastila Shan I'm afraid - was no match. (If you disagree, the debate's still open!) So here's round 2, suggested by VigDiath, thanks! Hopefully it will be a closer fight. Round 2: Brianna (lightside) vs Visas Marr (darkside) Both Brianna and Visas Marr where trained in the ways of the force, but at opposite ends of the spectrum. For the sake of this argument let’s assume Brianna wields a double-bladed lightsaber and Visas Marr and single. Brianna was proficient in Echani martial arts and use of the saberstaff and skilled in the art of Battle Precognition, able to predict her opponent’s attacks. Brianna was also proficient in the force and was trained as a Jedi Guardian by the Exile, Meetra Surik. Visas Marr was trained by Darth Nihilus in the ways of the dark side, able to release raw dark-side energy and had great skill in lightsaber combat. Her connection to the dark side gave her the power of dark healing, fuelling her regeneration by draining the life of another. Who will win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Erm, Visas Marr was redeemed by the Exile and became fully in tune with the Light Side, because of her experiences with the Dark Side, she became much stronger when she was redeemed and the connection between her and the Exile was tremendous, Brianna was a very tough Jedi Guardian who took down all of her handmaiden sisters, but was no match for the fallen Atris. Where as Visas Marr went up against Darth Nihilus and was victorious along with the Exile and Mandalore. I have to go with Visas Marr, her knowledge of the force would be too much for Brianna to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) If it was at the prime of their abilities.... Its hard to know. We dont know much about Brianna and the others after the exile left, other than who formed the New Jedi Council. To be honest, if it was them at the exact moment the exile departed the known galaxy..... Visas would have it, however if it was when brianna was a fully trained, full jedi master, against visas (at that time fully trained in the light side too)... It would be incredibly close, and i dont think we know enough about their prowess during that time to actually call it.... And im not even going to hazard a guess. Edit: If i was to say one thing, its that Brianna would olbiterate Visas in a saber duel, and Marr would dominate a battle that was consisted of knowledge of force abilities.... I also think a major factor as to who would win would be where the duel took place, and who initiated it... And if it was such a packed space that brianna would keep up with Visas, or if it was a large battlefield where Visas could use the force to range her..... Its like a sorcerer vs an assasin tank... but not so one sided. Edited September 16, 2012 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Gotta give it to Visas. Unless you're talking years after the Exile left, so they're both in their absolute prime. If we're talking, say, at the end of KOTOR 2 (that's the most powerful that we actually get to see them) then the Handmaiden is still basically a Padawan. Like Luke at the end of ROTJ, she's strong in the Force, but ultimately not fully trained yet. Say what you will about the Sith, their training methods produce results. The only way you become the right-hand woman to a Sith Lord is by being the best. Not only having great potential, but also by consistently proving your worth. And Nihilus was one of the least forgiving Sith Lords we've ever seen, to boot. I have to think, if they were forced to fight for some reason, Visas' superior experience and the fact she's further along in her Jedi/Force user training would give her a significant advantage in the fight. Not to mention that she's a less one-dimensional fighter than the Handmaiden. Without knowing the battleground and other factors, the more versatile fighter takes the advantage. Visas is both an accomplished swordsman (though probably not as good as the Handmaiden, training in the Echani arts all her life) and has strong Force powers, and she's trained in stealth/espionage as well. Versatility and experience both go to Visas, giving her the edge. -Macheath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Just to be clear, were talking Visas Marr at the time she joins the exile, i.e. when you fight her on the Ebon Hawk. In terms of Brianna, to give her a fair fight, after the Exile has completed her Jedi Training - exactly at the point when the game ends. So Brianna has been trained in the ways of the jedi, but is not yet a master - and Visas Marr has been trained in the ways of the sith by Nihilius, but not yet been improved by the Exile. Don't take into account their in-game levels at this time - their irrelevant. Edited September 16, 2012 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Just to be clear, were talking Visas Marr at the time she joins the exile, i.e. when you fight her on the Ebon Hawk. In terms of Brianna, to give her a fair fight, after the Exile has completed her Jedi Training - exactly at the point when the game ends. So Brianna has been trained in the ways of the jedi, but is not yet a master - and Visas Marr has been trained in the ways of the sith by Nihilius, but not yet been improved by the Exile. Don't take into account their in-game levels at this time - their irrelevant. When she joins the Exile, she gets redeemed, rendering much of her dark power moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I would have to say Visas. She is very powerful in the Force and has skill with the Lightsaber. Brianna is a very good duelist, but I don't think she has the power to stop Visas. Visas needs to only hold off Brianna's Lightsaber skills while she slowly beats her down with the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 When she joins the Exile, she gets redeemed, rendering much of her dark power moot. thats what I mean, before she is redeemed to the light - this is a dark side Visas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 thats what I mean, before she is redeemed to the light - this is a dark side Visas Brianna then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Edit: If i was to say one thing, its that Brianna would olbiterate Visas in a saber duel, and Marr would dominate a battle that was consisted of knowledge of force abilities.... I also think a major factor as to who would win would be where the duel took place, and who initiated it... And if it was such a packed space that brianna would keep up with Visas, or if it was a large battlefield where Visas could use the force to range her..... Its like a sorcerer vs an assasin tank... but not so one sided. A good analogy, if I were to state a place, to give each a fair fight. Perhaps the Jedi Temple - its got passageways and small alcoves but also large open spaces. So I would expect the fight would move between areas, much like Obi-Wan vs Anakin on Mustafar. That way agility would be key, whoever could maneuver their opponent into the space that gave them the advantage would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 A good analogy, if I were to state a place, to give each a fair fight. Perhaps the Jedi Temple - its got passageways and small alcoves but also large open spaces. So I would expect the fight would move between areas, much like Obi-Wan vs Anakin on Mustafar. That way agility would be key, whoever could maneuver their opponent into the space that gave them the advantage would win. Jedi temple would be interesting... An ambush by brianna could be an easy victory, but generally Force users arent successfully ambushed... Im still going to put it with Brianna as victor at the stages you put..... Visas wasnt very powerful as nihilus' apprentice, mainly because she didnt want to fight most of the time. Brianna however would fight till her last breath for any goal she truly believed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Jedi temple would be interesting... An ambush by brianna could be an easy victory, but generally Force users arent successfully ambushed... Im still going to put it with Brianna as victor at the stages you put..... Visas wasnt very powerful as nihilus' apprentice, mainly because she didnt want to fight most of the time. Brianna however would fight till her last breath for any goal she truly believed in. Very true, but Brianna wouldn't be able to get the jump on Visas, she had very powerful force sense. I agree that Brianna could defeat Visas through sheer force, battering her into submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think the key factor in this duel is not combat skill, its "seeing". Visas Marr sees her opponent through the force and will look for strenghts and weaknesses. She will also look for ways to manipulate Brianna's connection to the force. Brianna can "see" much by fighting her opponent or watching her fighting. She will read Visas character through this. So the whole thing becomes a psychological battle instead of a physical one. And in this Brianna will have the advantage. Visas might have had strong force powers and decent lightsaber skills, but she was weak on the inside. She was Sith in a very slave like way, very reluctant and very insecure. Brianna also had her insecurites, but she was overall stronger, especially if she already has travelled and trained with the Exile. Brianna could probably exploit Visas inner weakness. But would she kill or redeem? She seems more like the killing type, but she is not incapable of pity. All in all this battle should be quite interesting. It seems similar to Luka and Vader in RotJ, which was also more of a psychological battle than a physical one. (Hey, someone want to writa a FanFic about this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think the key factor in this duel is not combat skill, its "seeing". Visas Marr sees her opponent through the force and will look for strenghts and weaknesses. She will also look for ways to manipulate Brianna's connection to the force. Brianna can "see" much by fighting her opponent or watching her fighting. She will read Visas character through this. So the whole thing becomes a psychological battle instead of a physical one. And in this Brianna will have the advantage. Visas might have had strong force powers and decent lightsaber skills, but she was weak on the inside. She was Sith in a very slave like way, very reluctant and very insecure. Brianna also had her insecurites, but she was overall stronger, especially if she already has travelled and trained with the Exile. Brianna could probably exploit Visas inner weakness. But would she kill or redeem? She seems more like the killing type, but she is not incapable of pity. All in all this battle should be quite interesting. It seems similar to Luka and Vader in RotJ, which was also more of a psychological battle than a physical one. (Hey, someone want to writa a FanFic about this?) Hehe, write a fanfic about what? Brianna vs Marr? Id happily do that This also depends on wether it was visas straight against brianna, or Visas had tried to harm the Exile before hand. Brianna would fight with ferocity if she knew the exiles live was at stake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Hehe, write a fanfic about what? Brianna vs Marr? Id happily do that This also depends on wether it was visas straight against brianna, or Visas had tried to harm the Exile before hand. Brianna would fight with ferocity if she knew the exiles live was at stake... Yeah, a fanfic about the fight between them as a psychological battle. With lots of flashbacks which show how their past formed them and influences the battle. And true, if Brianna tries to defend the Exile, she will fight with more ferocity. But on the other hand, this would give Visas much, much more determination. She has seen the Exile through the force and desperatly wants to meet her and then hopefully die through her hands. Which makes her less insecure for this fight, because Brianna has become an obstacle instead of an innocent person she would rather let live. I think in that situation Visas would win. Brianna as a professional fighter would actually be rather distracted by this ferocity, I guess. Edited September 17, 2012 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I have to go with Visas Marr on this one for the simple fact that she's voiced by KELLY HU! <3 Kelly Hu <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I have to go with Visas Marr on this one for the simple fact that she's voiced by KELLY HU! <3 Kelly Hu <3 'My life, for yours' - gotta love that line, shame there's not so many deep lines in SWTOR but hey, what can you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah, a fanfic about the fight between them as a psychological battle. With lots of flashbacks which show how their past formed them and influences the battle. And true, if Brianna tries to defend the Exile, she will fight with more ferocity. But on the other hand, this would give Visas much, much more determination. She has seen the Exile through the force and desperatly wants to meet her and then hopefully die through her hands. Which makes her less insecure for this fight, because Brianna has become an obstacle instead of an innocent person she would rather let live. I think in that situation Visas would win. Brianna as a professional fighter would actually be rather distracted by this ferocity, I guess. Cool idea However i dont think Brianna would get distracted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Cool idea However i dont think Brianna would get distracted.... When you have written the fanfic, please put a link here Well, maybe not distracted, but for reading the opponents fighting style I guess it's better if you are calm and controlled. But maybe not. It doesn't matter, if Visas wants to reach the Exile, she will be determined enought to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 When you have written the fanfic, please put a link here Well, maybe not distracted, but for reading the opponents fighting style I guess it's better if you are calm and controlled. But maybe not. It doesn't matter, if Visas wants to reach the Exile, she will be determined enought to win. I know what you mean, one of the reasons that Anakin lost the fight against Kenobi is because he was caught up in his rage and did not know how to control it. Focus is important in all situations, even when your using your emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 When you have written the fanfic, please put a link here Well, maybe not distracted, but for reading the opponents fighting style I guess it's better if you are calm and controlled. But maybe not. It doesn't matter, if Visas wants to reach the Exile, she will be determined enought to win. Gonna have to wait till tommorow for Part one, cant write it now... But you should be sure ill post it here when i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnsignSorrow Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I think it would be a tough fight. Visas comes from a force sensitive race, and then she was Darth Nihilus' apprentice, The exile continued her training. She became quite adept. Where as Brianna has just begun her training, although she is still quite skilled in hand to hand combat, acrobatics, and she is skilled with a staff weapon that is like a double bladed light saber. Atris set them up so they could combat lightsaber opponents effectively, but not be force sensitive, so that her academy could stay hidden from the hidden Sith Triumvirate. I think Brianna could take Visas, especially with her new Jedi training. Edited September 17, 2012 by EnsignSorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just to be clear, were talking Visas Marr at the time she joins the exile, i.e. when you fight her on the Ebon Hawk. In terms of Brianna, to give her a fair fight, after the Exile has completed her Jedi Training - exactly at the point when the game ends. So Brianna has been trained in the ways of the jedi, but is not yet a master - and Visas Marr has been trained in the ways of the sith by Nihilius, but not yet been improved by the Exile. Don't take into account their in-game levels at this time - their irrelevant. Well, if you're gonna go change the rules on me... maybe Brianna. Not a fair fight, though. The Exile defined who these ladies were. Both came to the Exile as insecure individuals who were lost, both searching for a meaning to their existence, basically. They both left the Exile strong and independent. Either one would lose to the other, if you pick one pre-KOTOR2 and one post-KOTOR2. Not only do they grow as individuals, but they grow significantly in literal power over the course of their time with the Exile. During every point in their training, however, I'd argue that Visas is ahead of the Handmaiden. When the Exile first assemble her team, Visas was stronger. Visas loses to you when you first encounter her. But even multiple Handmaidens couldn't take the Exile down, and Brianna was the "last" of them. The Exile was also less in tune with the Force when she fought the Handmaidens, versus when she fought Visas. At the end of their training, I stand by my earlier points, that Visas is still far more experienced, and more versatile of a fighter, than Brianna. Brianna's going to win a straight up contest, but Visas doesn't fight "straight up." She's an assassin, after all. -Macheath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well, if you're gonna go change the rules on me... maybe Brianna. Not a fair fight, though. The Exile defined who these ladies were. Both came to the Exile as insecure individuals who were lost, both searching for a meaning to their existence, basically. They both left the Exile strong and independent. Either one would lose to the other, if you pick one pre-KOTOR2 and one post-KOTOR2. Not only do they grow as individuals, but they grow significantly in literal power over the course of their time with the Exile. During every point in their training, however, I'd argue that Visas is ahead of the Handmaiden. When the Exile first assemble her team, Visas was stronger. Visas loses to you when you first encounter her. But even multiple Handmaidens couldn't take the Exile down, and Brianna was the "last" of them. The Exile was also less in tune with the Force when she fought the Handmaidens, versus when she fought Visas. At the end of their training, I stand by my earlier points, that Visas is still far more experienced, and more versatile of a fighter, than Brianna. Brianna's going to win a straight up contest, but Visas doesn't fight "straight up." She's an assassin, after all. -Macheath. Your statement, im afraid, was invailidated by your statement about her being the last of them. If killing all of them in one single duel doesnt show shes more powerful, got knows what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 This fan fiction on its way? (no pressure ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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