New to the game - pessimism all around!

[Superawesomerman]

This game has attracted a lot of haters that want nothing but to see the game fail.

 

Ignore both the hype and the hate.

 

I would agree, I but there is entirely too much ignoring going around here.

[Recoup]

You guys are just making me eager to get home and play!

[Kahotep]

I have issues with this game. There are things about this game that I don't like. However, I can honestly say that SWTOR is my second favourite MMO right now.

[Rogoo]

Everyone seems so pessimistic.

 

This is because Bioware has a really terrible record of promising things and not delivering. Let me name a few:

 

- Monthly content updates

- Chat bubbles

- The new companion that was supposed to be in game some time ago

- etc, etc

 

Other than that.

 

- After TEN MONTHS, PvPers got ONE new warzone, yet Open World PvP was completely removed (because the engine is completely fubar'd and can't handle it at any reasonable framerates)

- Two rounds of layoffs hit Bioware, which means less content, less updates

- Switch to Free 2 Play

- Subs dropped from 1.7 million to who knows what ? 650 k maybe ?

 

All in all, game cannot be considered as a success, hence all the negativity.

[Karkais]

A lot of experienced (and some times spoiled) MMO players have taken up this game. This has sadly lead to many people believing this game should be identical, if not far succeed, the game they left (or forced to leave in the case of Star Wars Galaxy) to play this.

 

For me it's exactly opposite, I would want something new, not same old.

Currently the only thing I'm logging in for is some pvp since thats actually somewhat good in this game, gamemechanicswise, compared to other games that compete for my interest. I can also say that currently there is no MMO on the market that I'm happy with. (playing or played until recently SWTOR, secret world, GW2, eve online, champions online). Out of these GW2 is the worst. Currently secret world is the only one I have active sub on.

 

I would just want MMO developers explore something new instead of doing the same thing over and over..

 

ps. For the devs: freeplay has absolutely no effect, positive or negative, to my gameplay. In fact if anything it has negative effect, because the % of idiots on the general chat channel will SURELY go up when the game goes f2p.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Karkais

[captncrunch]

This is because Bioware has a really terrible record of promising things and not delivering. Let me name a few:

 

- Monthly content updates

- Chat bubbles

- The new companion that was supposed to be in game some time ago

- etc, etc

 

Other than that.

 

- After TEN MONTHS, PvPers got ONE new warzone, yet Open World PvP was completely removed (because the engine is completely fubar'd and can't handle it at any reasonable framerates)

- Two rounds of layoffs hit Bioware, which means less content, less updates

- Switch to Free 2 Play

- Subs dropped from 1.7 million to who knows what ? 650 k maybe ?

 

All in all, game cannot be considered as a success, hence all the negativity.

 

Exaclty and the reason a lot of people are upset with the game is because of the high hopes we all had in the beginning only to be let down. I was excited to get into beta testing, but after playing the game for awhile and experiencing all the different problems and the dreaded higher level boredom at end game it all kinda went sour.

 

If this is your first MMO then you probably will be satisfied, if you played others that were of any kind of quality then you're going to understandably compare them to Swtor and you may or may not be happy with the game.

It's not a horrible game, but it leaves a lot to be desired as far as depth (crafting, customization, etc)...

[Goretzu]

According to the hate machine, if you say anything positive and you are part of the "everything is fine brigade" No one said everything is fine there are issues I complain about them too, but having issues and subscribing to the cult of goofy girl that has taken up residence on these forums are two entirely different things.

 

The thing is though the flaws of SWTOR have nothing to do with SWG (although it is a constantly used strawman arguement against any improvement to SWTOR [i.e. "this isn't SWG 2.0] ).

 

Although ironically most of the flaws of SWTOR would be fixed by including the strengths of SWG (and SWG flaws generally are SWTORs strengths).

 

 

"Everything is fine" has seen 2,000,000 people try and leave SWTOR........... everything is NOT "fine".

[Goretzu]

LOTRO hasn't been scrapped it's thriving

Same with DDO

CO despite having an abysmal launch has quite the community

EQ II is doing just fine

 

So really SWTOR has a good chance too if they are diligent, nothing is guaranteed, but I'll remain optimistic.

 

 

 

Isn't LOTRO pretty much back to pre-F2P numbers now (although obviously all are now not monthly sub paying)?

 

The problem is look at Warhammer Online, it actually had decent subs for much of it's life, certainly enough to be making a profit, but it still got ZERO content addition (barring LoTD).

 

So even if SWTOR gets 2,000,000 F2P accounts in November it doesn't therefore follow Bioware EA will increase the Dev team and start churning out more content (P2W or otherwise).

[turjake]

"Everything is fine" has seen 2,000,000 people try and leave SWTOR........... everything is NOT "fine".

You keep repeating this so I ask you: How exactly would you have prevented this? On the other hand, do you have any idea how many people have tried and left for example WoW?

[Roalmo]

You keep repeating this so I ask you: How exactly would you have prevented this? On the other hand, do you have any idea how many people have tried and left for example WoW?

 

Well, at a guess it wasn't 90% of the total that tried it.

[Goretzu]

You keep repeating this so I ask you: How exactly would you have prevented this? On the other hand, do you have any idea how many people have tried and left for example WoW?

 

The list of things I've suggested to improve SWTOR is long and varied.

 

I very much doubt WoW had lost 2,000,000 subs in its first 9 months, WAR had a similar trajectory and look how it ended up.

 

But yes if SWTOR had lost 2,000,000 subs in the last 9 months, but currently had 6,000,000 subs then yes the "everything is fine" brigade would have a serious point. But there's at least 4 times as many people have left the game as are still playing the game...... again that is NOT "fine".

[LordArtemis]

You keep repeating this so I ask you: How exactly would you have prevented this? On the other hand, do you have any idea how many people have tried and left for example WoW?

 

Lets see....

 

BF2 style persistent space battleground

Crafting with hands on ability, ability to crit

All armor convertible to Orange armor

Enhancements to each and every crew skill EXCEPT Biochem (one of my suggestions)

Pathing problems resolved (especially Taris)

Random mission generator (another one of my suggestions)

Ability to decorate our ships like SWG style housing inside and out

More customization options

Pazzaak, Swoop racing, etc.

Tomb of Lords style raid (one of my suggestions)

Chat bubbles, changing weather, day and night cycles

Ability to recolor all pieces of armor, redesign your characters appearance at any point in the game

 

...just to name a few.

[turjake]

The list of things I've suggested to improve SWTOR is long and varied.

 

I very much doubt WoW had lost 2,000,000 subs in its first 9 months, WAR had a similar trajectory and look how it ended up.

 

But yes if SWTOR had lost 2,000,000 subs in the last 9 months, but currently had 6,000,000 subs then yes the "everything is fine" brigade would have a serious point. But there's at least 4 times as many people have left the game as are still playing the game...... again that is NOT "fine".

 

What you really want to say by repeating that number is :

 

2 000 000 PEOPLE LEFT ALREADY -> THIS GAME IS THE MOST SMELLY PILE OF TURD EVER. STAY AWAY FROM THIS GAME.

 

In reality that number has nothing to do with the quality of this game or the amount of "fun" you can have in this game. Loads of people still play this game. Yet you keep repeating that 2 000 000 people have left this game. By now atleast 50 000 000 people have tried and left wow, probably more, yet I dont see you yelling doom and gloom in the wow forums.

Edited September 14, 2012 by turjake

[LordArtemis]

In reality that number has nothing to do with the quality of this game or the amount of "fun" you can have in this game.

 

I'm not exactly sure I understand why you feel you can make this assertion. I tend to think it's highly unlikely you could make any case for your statement and give it any shred of validity.

 

You are presenting hyperbole as factual information. It is, in fact, your unproven uninformed opinion if anything.

[RocNessMonster]

The next six months-ish should tell the tale.

 

If they try to re-hook the crowd that already gave up by going more WoW-ish. It will die a quick death. That ship has sailed and one doesn't get a second chance to make a first impression.

 

If they try to cater to the wants of those who tough it out, they have a chance.

 

This is EA were talking about here, they are all about box.

[turjake]

I'm not exactly sure I understand why you feel you can make this assertion. I tend to think it's highly unlikely you could make any case for your statement and give it any shred of validity.

 

You are presenting hyperbole as factual information. It is, in fact, your unproven uninformed opinion if anything.

 

Depends if you can understand the idea of making up your own mind or just following others with your opinions I guess. I dont see any verified connection between that number and a quality of the game.

 

50 million flys cannot be wrong...

Edited September 14, 2012 by turjake

[Goretzu]

What you really want to say by repeating that number is :

 

2 000 000 PEOPLE LEFT ALREADY -> THIS GAME IS THE MOST SMELLY PILE OF TURD EVER. STAY AWAY FROM THIS GAME.

 

In reality that number has nothing to do with the quality of this game or the amount of "fun" you can have in this game. Loads of people still play this game. Yet you keep repeating that 2 000 000 people have left this game. By now atleast 50 000 000 people have tried and left wow, probably more, yet I dont see you yelling doom and gloom in the wow forums.

 

 

You might be wanting me to say that, but no, that is not what I am saying.

 

SWTOR has many strengths, but its flaws are causing the problems with retention.

 

Only FIXING THOSE FLAWS IS GOING TO HELP...... ignoring them will simply continue the game down the same path as the last 9 months.

[LordArtemis]

Depends if you can understand the idea of making up your own mind or just following others with your opinions I guess. I dont see any verified connection between that number and a quality of the game.

 

50 million flys cannot be wrong...

 

You may not SEE that but an absence of fact does not translate into fact. Truth is no one knows why they left...but knowing human history and habit, the smarter money is on the idea that they game couldn't hold them because it wasn't up to snuff for some reason.

 

It's a pretty hefty loss. A much smaller loss could have made it more speculative, but with this large a loss (2/3 of the player base in less than a year) one can reasonably surmise the game did not meet expectations.

 

It's a much more reasonable idea, though still speculative mind you, than saying they DIDNT leave because the game is fine...paraphrasing naturally.

 

It's a pretty good bet.

[Goretzu]

Depends if you can understand the idea of making up your own mind or just following others with your opinions I guess. I dont see any verified connection between that number and a quality of the game.

 

50 million flys cannot be wrong...

 

WoW must have sold a lot of digital copies over the years, becuase their total sales copies comes to about 1/5 of that.

[turjake]

WoW must have sold a lot of digital copies over the years, becuase their total sales copies comes to about 1/5 of that.

 

I guess I am bored enough so lets calculate a bit

First, the question was about people who have tried and left a game, not sold boxes. Wow has trial accounts too currently.

 

wow was released 2005 (or end of 2004). at beginning of 2006 it had 6 million subs. Beginning of 2007 8 million subs and beginning of 2008 10 million subs. beginning of 2009 it had 12 million subs and it has now come down to bit over 10 million. (source: mmodata)

 

Lets assume that average player plays for 6 months before quitting.

so first year

2005-2006 average 3 million subs (0-6 million) * 2 = 6 million

2006-2007 average 7 mil (6-8 mil) * 2 = 14 million

2007-2008 average 9 mil (8-10) *2 = 18 million

2008-2009 average 11 mil (10-12) *2 = 22 mil

2009-2012 summer: average 10 mil (more really but lets forget that) = 7 half years = 70 million

that would make total of 130 million people trying and most leaving wow since it has 10 million subs atm.

 

If you want to assume that people played for a year then divide my amount by 2. Thats just not counting trial accounts at all. They themselves said that 70% of their trials dont get past level 10 in some article.

 

Anyway I probably miscalculated somewhere and its not really important what the number is. Just like its not important how many people have tried and left SWTOR. Mmorpgs have people starting and leaving all the time.

[Goretzu]

I guess I am bored enough so lets calculate a bit

First, the question was about people who have tried and left a game, not sold boxes. Wow has trial accounts too currently.

 

wow was released 2005 (or end of 2004). at beginning of 2006 it had 6 million subs. Beginning of 2007 8 million subs and beginning of 2008 10 million subs. beginning of 2009 it had 12 million subs and it has now come down to bit over 10 million. (source: mmodata)

 

Lets assume that average player plays for 6 months before quitting.

so first year

2005-2006 average 3 million subs (0-6 million) * 2 = 6 million

2006-2007 average 7 mil (6-8 mil) * 2 = 14 million

2007-2008 average 9 mil (8-10) *2 = 18 million

2008-2009 average 11 mil (10-12) *2 = 22 mil

2009-2012 summer: average 10 mil (more really but lets forget that) = 7 half years = 70 million

that would make total of 130 million people trying and most leaving wow since it has 10 million subs atm.

 

If you want to assume that people played for a year then divide my amount by 2. Thats just not counting trial accounts at all. They themselves said that 70% of their trials dont get past level 10 in some article.

 

Anyway I probably miscalculated somewhere and its not really important what the number is. Just like its not important how many people have tried and left SWTOR. Mmorpgs have people starting and leaving all the time.

 

That's just blind guess work though, there nothing to say an "average" WoW player plays for 6 months before quiting. You may as well assume it's 10 years and no one has actually quit yet.

 

WoW and SWTOR box sales are solid.

 

Either way WoW still has over 5m western subs, SWTOR is now down to around ~500,000.... everything.... is.... not.... fine.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Goretzu

[turjake]

 

 

You might be wanting me to say that, but no, that is not what I am saying.

 

SWTOR has many strengths, but its flaws are causing the problems with retention.

 

Only FIXING THOSE FLAWS IS GOING TO HELP...... ignoring them will simply continue the game down the same path as the last 9 months.

 

Well, maybe I exaggerated a bit but it is kind of a negative advert considering the way you use it. I only asked since its kind of fitting in this particular thread

Edited September 14, 2012 by turjake

[lklinga]

I am in the same boat as the OP see a lot of flack in the forums.

 

However in the state as the game is now and when I started 1.3.xxx It is a perfectly fine although not without some bugs or class balance problems.

 

The most hate the game gets in the forums is from the PVP community even though those guys will never be happy.

 

The PVE side actually really nice leveling experience is the best of any MMO I have played so far and storylines are great.

 

This is though coming from someone who paid only 15 dollars including 30 days of time for a game that was asking a lot more in the beginning.

I just hope the general negativity is not going to kill the game before I am done with all the classes stroylines.

[LordArtemis]

Just like its not important how many people have tried and left SWTOR. Mmorpgs have people starting and leaving all the time.

 

I think losing 2/3 of your playerbase in 9 months is pretty important to Bioware and EA. In fact, I'd bet on it.

Edited September 14, 2012 by LordArtemis

[ShadowBomb]

Not trying to poke a bear or anything, but I just want to point out the fact that Bioware seems to be the subject of all the hate for things going wrong. People seem to forget that EA is the puppet master......