JmoWolf Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I was thinking about how large the land and fleet forces combined were in several factions. So im wondering how many men total do these factions have in there military: Galactic Empire New Republic Chiss Clone Army And any others that anyone would like to add in. Edited September 13, 2012 by JmoWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Im sure i read in a book that the Black Sun Guild is very powerful ( huge space fleet.) and could take on the Empire if it wanted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiale Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 In X-Wing: Rogue Squadron (which I'm currently reading through), I heard that the Empire had about half of the galaxy and the New Republic had about 30%, and 20% were undecided. At least, this was the case 2 years after the Emperor's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Imperial fleet during battle of Endor (more or less peak of it´s numbers) had roughly 22000 star destroyers, however those was mixed between Interdictors, Imperial class, Imperial-II class, and significant portion were older and much smaller Victory class star destroyers. (plus some acclamator trasports, however those were beeing phased out of service) Then there were considerable numbers of dreadnoughts, frigates and support craft... after 10 years of warfare after Endor admiral Pelleaon was effectively down to 8 sectors of space and 200 star destroyers to defend it. With single super unfinished super star destroyer in (Megador) in imperial hands. New Republic had lower amount of ships by orders of magnitude, however since imperial warlords turned on each other Empire diminished it´s fleets all by itself. When Thrawn turned up and united the fleets he effectively had slightly less resources that New Republic... 200 old republic dreadnaughts of Katana fleet beeing what tiped the balance to imperial favour for short time. (loss of Bilbringy shipyard was however bad and demoralizing since Thrawn died there, and warlords again went against each other... Daala stoped that (as she killed them) and she eventualy left vice-admiral Pelleaon in charge of imperial military. super star destroyers ranged in about dozen... New Republic managed to capture two (Lusankya and Guardian), rest was destoyed in war. Lusankya rammed and destroyed Yuuzhan vong worldship over Borleas. Ascendancy´s army is somewhat larger than New Republic or GA would maintain over adequate space. But it is technologicaly more advanced. Hutt´s maintained a rather large fleets, but they were mostly mercenaries. And I do not really know how much ships Empire of the Hand has in it´s disposal... but as Luke and Mara saw the general overwiev they said that that it would be another 150 sectors of unknown regions in imperial hands, so if it has same amout of ships Galactic empire had per sector, it should easily match full GA fleet (as it survived last civil war) As for groundforces numbers are far more questinable. Most of the planets within galaxy have negligable populace ranging millions at most. (more or less single garrison of few hundreth troopers is enough to subjugate most planets) Conquering planets like Correlia is somewhat dubious since surrender is more likely alternative to orbital bombardment... (Kaminoans for example simply with their space and resources of their planet (food, energy) couldn´t have produced more than billion clones (two billion at max, those were of course elite troops, most planets were defended by indigenous populace even in clone wars) in given amount of time (10 years). Spaarti in the end of the war were far more efficient... Thrawn managed to choke 10000 clones per 3 weeks, and that was considered a limitless income of manpower to imperial warmachine which would starve Republic of manpower in war of attrition. Edited September 12, 2012 by PaerisKiran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) the Galactic empire at it's peak had a military which by far was larger than anyone else's but they had to because of the way they ruled ... I mean according to official records, over 25,000 Imperial I-class star destroyers alone were eventually produced for them and they were just one of the over a million classes of ships the imperial navy used... but you have to remember the Galactic Empire controlled over 69 million star systems and and 1.75 million planets considered full member worlds spread over 1/2 a galaxy and ruled by might so they could never actually bring even a fraction of them all to bear on a target... the fleet at Endor was only even a tiny fraction of it's total ships and generally the largest group they normally ever used in combat was a sector group under the control of a Moff which could be expected to contain at least 2,400 ships, 24 of which were Star Destroyers (Imperial-class Star Destroyers were the norm, but some groups contained older model Star Destroyers), and another 1,600 combat starships with the rest being support vessels... at it's height the Galactic empire's war machine and production was unmatched by any that ever came before or after it (with in current canon) Now the empire of the Hand and the Chiss at their peak each controlled a rather large amount of territory too but the number of populated planets in those areas was much much much fewer and so they needed far fewer ships to control it the New Republic also had far fewer ships than the galactic empire ever did but that was because not only did they control less territory but they allowed local systems to keep their own standing militaries and well being in the New Republic was voluntary so they didn't require as many ships as they didn't have to subdue systems into compliance or maintain a presence to keep them in line the hutts had a rather nice size fleet of mercenaries but again compared to the NR or the empire it was very tiny because they only controlled a rather small chunk of space... during the height of the galactic empire it was even smaller because technically while not part of the Galactic Empire they "oversaw" hutt space and maintained forces there the Old republics fleet size changed drastically depending on the time period... like in the time period of this game and up to before the ruusan reformation the Republic maintained a rather large fleet... not Galactic Empire large but still pretty large.. that was because they were going to war constantly... after the ruusan reformation (1000 years BBY) the Republic dissolved it's Navy and Army meaning by the time the clone wars started it had technically NO real standing military at all and relied on local system governments to field their own small forces which is why at the start of the clone wars a force as small as the Trade Federation could actually pose a threat and why a billion of so clones and a few thousand war ships made a difference ground forces would go about the same size relative to fleets by comparison but solid figures or total numbers have never been given... but since even a single country on our planet can have standing armies of a few million you can assume that in a galaxy that was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms that large empires/republics could field pretty massive armies in total numbers but again you need to remember that the total numbers are rather irrelevant because not one of these groups could ever bring their total forces to bear at a single time as they still had massive regions of territory to watch over... Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnsignSorrow Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Nice posts guys. I enjoyed the reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 this is actually a highly debated topic because what they say and show in the movies does not agree with what they say in books. For example. in the movies Han says "The empire couldn't destroy a planet it would take over 1,000 ships with more firepower..." They also say "the death star is designed to defend against a large scale assault. It has firepower greater then half the fleet" In Attack of the Clones they mention that they have a million clones ready to go but it will take more time if they want more.These quotes as well as others indicate that there are not hundreds of thousands ships and hundreds of millions troops but much much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 this is actually a highly debated topic because what they say and show in the movies does not agree with what they say in books. For example. in the movies Han says "The empire couldn't destroy a planet it would take over 1,000 ships with more firepower..." They also say "the death star is designed to defend against a large scale assault. It has firepower greater then half the fleet" In Attack of the Clones they mention that they have a million clones ready to go but it will take more time if they want more. These quotes as well as others indicate that there are not hundreds of thousands ships and hundreds of millions troops but much much less. to put it bluntly... 20000 star destroyers could pull all firepower on planet and all they could do would be to melt the surface. obliderating planet crust... but that would be about all... shattering the planet... on that they really did not have firepower. Death star defences had firepower of half of imperial fleet... (in terms of raw number, not it´s efficiency agaisnt small craft) And no "10000 units are ready, with million more on the way" generaly I thin that "unit" is effectively the square in which clone troopers are marching" about 250 man. That would imply roughly 2,5 million soldiers avaiable immediately, and 250 million soldiers in month or two... Kaminoans also mentions that it would take some time to grow more (and I am inclined to believe she does not mean anohter 10 years, but meerely says that they are growing other which will be avaiable in year or so...) That would be actualy reasonable production of manpower for Kamino. Assuming production peaked a bit later it would allow single digit bilions clones to be avaiable during whole clone wars. Which, given the generaly negligable populace on most planets is more than sufficient for waging a war depicted in movies or clone wars series. not to mention even old republic did have planetary militians... which also did fair share of figting. Clones beeing elite shock troops. Add much faster grown Spaarti clones during end of war to the mix and all is more or less right in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) this is actually a highly debated topic because what they say and show in the movies does not agree with what they say in books. For example. in the movies Han says "The empire couldn't destroy a planet it would take over 1,000 ships with more firepower..." They also say "the death star is designed to defend against a large scale assault. It has firepower greater then half the fleet" In Attack of the Clones they mention that they have a million clones ready to go but it will take more time if they want more. These quotes as well as others indicate that there are not hundreds of thousands ships and hundreds of millions troops but much much less. not really... I mean you could chock most to all of those up to just hyperbole and the generalization people tend to use in speech.... and as I said at the time of the clone wars the Republic had no standing army at all so a million clones from the first batch (remember there were still ones being grown and raised we see the younger ones) would be a lot to them considering they were fighting the Trade federation not some huge empire... not to mention most of those lines you are referring to don't ever give exact figures and are phrased rather generally... like "will take some time" could be days or years they don't say... or "a fleet"... what kind of fleet? the USA has multiple fleets that all range in sizes... the Empire had what they called "fleets" ranging in size from Sector fleets of 2400 ships to Line Fleets of 6 star destroyers and supports... "a thousand ships" what type of ships? system patrol craft? super star destroyers? it's all generalizations, vague descriptions and hyperbole but again as I said total numbers don't really mean much for the large players like the empire because they still have to penny packet those forces to be able to keep control over large territories.... while smaller groups like say Thrawn, the trade federation or the rebel alliance didn't have large territories to watch over so they could bring a larger percentage of their total forces to bear... the simple fact that the Galactic Empire controlled over 69 million systems through force and occupation means they would have to have massive amounts of ships and troops to keep them under control Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I mean according to official records, over 25,000 Imperial I-class star destroyers alone were eventually produced for them Yeah that is about the number but quite a number was sent to unknown regions to help Thrawn there, lot of them were destroyed. Empire subjugated Seepan, Yavethans... and it did have casualties, lot of ships were lost scouting deep core, and even making unknown regions known... the "backwater of the empire" The 8 sectors Pelleaon was left with (still thousands barely inhabited or completly uninhabited starsystems) in the end, was more or less newly charted territory. 22000 was really the peak of active ships at given time (counting even victory class star destroyers.) in imperial hands... Just interested in "sword of the Jedi trilogy" since I really want to know if "Fel Empire" will actualy combine Remnat and Empire of the Hand... Voss Park did sent his star destroyers to help out Jagged agaist Daala. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) 22000 was really the peak of active ships at given time (counting even victory class star destroyers.) in imperial hands... do you have a source that actually gives that figure or is it just your own personal estimation? Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 the simple fact that the Galactic Empire controlled over 69 million systems through force and occupation means they would have to have massive amounts of ships and troops to keep them under control Vast majority of them beeing just rocks and systems where there wasn´t habitable planet at all. or mining colonies with thousand people on it. Naboo was the most populated planet in whole bunch of them. It´s senator did represent few hundreth other star systems which had even smaller populace. And even counting gungans there were few milion sapient beeings on that planet. those senators usualy did not have any real voice anyway... Palpatine knew how to make himself heard, but still majority of power laid within Kuat, Fondor, Coruscant, Correlia, Chandrila, even Alderaan which had uncommonly large populace. Plus you do not need to defend every single system... it is insanely difficult to get decent warfleet anywhere without using charted hyperspace route. And conquering a system without infrastructure is rather useless... it would take too long to exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) to put it bluntly... 20000 star destroyers could pull all firepower on planet and all they could do would be to melt the surface. obliderating planet crust... but that would be about all... shattering the planet... on that they really did not have firepower. Death star defences had firepower of half of imperial fleet... (in terms of raw number, not it´s efficiency agaisnt small craft) And no "10000 units are ready, with million more on the way" generaly I thin that "unit" is effectively the square in which clone troopers are marching" about 250 man. That would imply roughly 2,5 million soldiers avaiable immediately, and 250 million soldiers in month or two... Kaminoans also mentions that it would take some time to grow more (and I am inclined to believe she does not mean anohter 10 years, but meerely says that they are growing other which will be avaiable in year or so...) That would be actualy reasonable production of manpower for Kamino. Assuming production peaked a bit later it would allow single digit bilions clones to be avaiable during whole clone wars. Which, given the generaly negligable populace on most planets is more than sufficient for waging a war depicted in movies or clone wars series. not to mention even old republic did have planetary militians... which also did fair share of figting. Clones beeing elite shock troops. Add much faster grown Spaarti clones during end of war to the mix and all is more or less right in the world. again that's my point it's all EU stuff. We never see anything in the movies that equals those numbers. Not even in the Clone Wars TV series. Remember the clone production started a long time ago when master Syfodius was still alive. It was started back before Episode 1 i believe. Boba Fett was what 7 or 8 in AotC and he was created when they started making the armies so it took that long to make the number of clones when AotC starts. In ROTJ the Emperor even states that it's his fleet outside the death star and there is no way there is a million ships there. Edited September 12, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) do you have a source that actually gives that figure or is it just your own personal estimation? Beginning of Spectre of the Past. Admiral Pelleon reminiscing before testing the combat predictor and cloaking shields... after miserable failure he sets off to Bastion and bullies Moffs to give him authority to negotiate peace with New Republic. Add to fact that Pelleaon did not know about empire of the Hand until Mara and Luke returned from unknown regions... Edited September 12, 2012 by PaerisKiran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) again that's my point it's all EU stuff. We never see anything in the movies that equals those numbers. Not even in the Clone Wars TV series. Remember the clone production started a long time ago when master Syfodius was still alive. It was started back before Episode 1 i believe. Boba Fett was what 7 or 8 in AotC and he was created when they started making the armies so it took that long to make the number of clones when AotC starts. In ROTJ the Emperor even states that it's his fleet outside the death star and there is no way there is a million ships there. I can not imagine emperor would pull all his forces from galaxy to converge on one spot to wipe out handful of rebels... general idiocy of such move... Yes, he sent there all he could, and only enough so the Rebels would not see it... I somehow can not picture Rebels missing that entire imperial fleet vanished from galaxy... I would suggest that for the purpose of this discussion "fleet" means all ship assets given entity has. not a designated combat unit. Edited September 12, 2012 by PaerisKiran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Vast majority of them beeing just rocks and systems where there wasn´t habitable planet at all. or mining colonies with thousand people on it. Naboo was the most populated planet in whole bunch of them. It´s senator did represent few hundreth other star systems which had even smaller populace. And even counting gungans there were few milion sapient beeings on that planet. those senators usualy did not have any real voice anyway... Palpatine knew how to make himself heard, but still majority of power laid within Kuat, Fondor, Coruscant, Correlia, Chandrila, even Alderaan which had uncommonly large populace. Plus you do not need to defend every single system... it is insanely difficult to get decent warfleet anywhere without using charted hyperspace route. And conquering a system without infrastructure is rather useless... it would take too long to exploit. what? there were tons of planets in lore that had populations in the millions and billions and 1.75 million planets were considered full member worlds in the Galactic Empire meaning each of those had to have a sizable population at least in the millions to qualify for full membership... small colonies were not considered full members... Coruscant had a population in the trillions and it has been said in numerous novels that there were other worlds close matching it.. hell even Nar Shaddaa a MOON had a population of 85 billion and there were many many others worlds like it... I don't see where you get that there were few small population worlds to watch over when the galaxy was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms, had around 20 million different sentient (sapient) species, around 180 billion habitable worlds and the empire controlled around half of it... it's true there were tons of small colonies and whatnot but there were also tons of largely populated worlds and Naboo was far from the top in population... thy have had after all 25000 years of galactic level civilization to spread around Beginning of Spectre of the Past. actually Specter of the Past on page 7 is the cited source of the 25000 star destroyers produced figure Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the largest army ever is the CIS. Land-wise they had the most forces. But those are droids. If we're talking normal soldiers, then I think the Galactic Empire had the largest military. Thanks to them having complete control of the galaxy with the ability to conscript people to serve in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I can not imagine emperor would pull all his forces from galaxy to converge on one spot to wipe out handful of rebels... general idiocy of such move... Yes, he sent there all he could, and only enough so the Rebels would not see it... I somehow can not picture Rebels missing that entire imperial fleet vanished from galaxy... I would suggest that for the purpose of this discussion "fleet" means all ship assets given entity has. not a designated combat unit. really? I can easly see the Emperor doing. After all he didn't want to put a plug over a 2 meter shaft that ran straight to the reactor. Then the second time he decided to make an EVEN BIGGER whole that you were able to fly a transport ship through that leads straight to the reactor. Come on the Emperor does some insanely stupid things. Keeping the entire fleet in one place isn't a stretch at all. Think also the US Navy kept all it's ships in the Pacific fleet in one port hense Pearl Harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) really? I can easly see the Emperor doing. After all he didn't want to put a plug over a 2 meter shaft that ran straight to the reactor. Then the second time he decided to make an EVEN BIGGER whole that you were able to fly a transport ship through that leads straight to the reactor. Come on the Emperor does some insanely stupid things. Keeping the entire fleet in one place isn't a stretch at all. Think also the US Navy kept all it's ships in the Pacific fleet in one port hense Pearl Harbor. the first time it was a design error .. the emperor isn't a technician so I doubt he went and looked over ever inch of the plans and even if he did wouldn't have understood them and the second time that hole was there because the thing was only 1/2 finished... besides bad guys have to make stupid errors for the good guys to beat them so the story can progress... if it was realistic they most likely wouldn't and the good guys would be crushed and most people would get mad... lol also the US only had the Pacific fleet in one spot (and technically not even all of it) which was again only one of the fleets we had Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 the first time it was a design error .. the emperor isn't a technician so I doubt he went and looked over ever inch of the plans and even if he did wouldn't have understood them and the second time that hole was there because the thing was only 1/2 finished... besides bad guys have to make stupid errors for the good guys to beat them so the story can progress... if it was realistic they most likely wouldn't and the good guys would be crushed and most people would get mad... lol also the US only had the Pacific fleet in one spot (and technically not even all of it) which was again only one of the fleets we had well not really the bad guys don't have to make stupid errors you just need the good guys to outsmart the bad guys. Look at the Dark Knight. Batman outsmarts the Joker with out the Joker doing stupid mistakes. So the death star is half finished and the Emperor lets the news slip that he is onboard. Why did the Emperor need to there? He didn't actually have to show up. Why didn't the emperor have a back up shield generator on the planet? Why did he even need a shield generator on the planet? If he was smart he woudl have installed one on the death star as a back up and just make the rebels think that it is on the ground. Sure it's half finished but that doens't mean you needed a to leave the reactor completley unprotected. Yes we had 2 fleets the atlantic and the pacific. but still the point stands that we kept almost all of our ships including all of our aircraft carriers in one spot. During a war. yes we weren't at war but we knew there was a chance we would join the war. History is FULL of military blunders. In fact wasn't there a tv show on the history channel called Military Blunders? Hell look at his plane during the Clone Wars. He wanted to be kidnapped by Darth Greivus? Even though Grievus didn't know who he was? What if he died? What if Count Dooku told Anakin that he was the real sith lord? What if the Jedi just took the recorrding of Palpetine naming Anakin his dark apprentace to the Senate? There are so many stupid mistakes that Palpentine made having his entire fleet in one place to destroy the rebel allaince seems right on par. Hell why did he even let it slip that the death star was incomplete and he would be on it? Why not build it and THEN crush the Rebelion? Go with the Original plan from A New Hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) what? there were tons of planets in lore that had populations in the millions and billions and 1.75 million planets were considered full member worlds in the Galactic Empire meaning each of those had to have a sizable population at least in the millions to qualify for full membership... small colonies were not considered full members... Coruscant had a population in the trillions and it has been said in numerous novels that there were other worlds close matching it.. hell even Nar Shaddaa a MOON had a population of 85 billion and there were many many others worlds like it... I don't see where you get that there were few small population worlds to watch over when the galaxy was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms, had around 20 million different sentient (sapient) species, around 180 billion habitable worlds and the empire controlled around half of it... it's true there were tons of small colonies and whatnot but there were also tons of largely populated worlds and Naboo was far from the top in population... thy have had after all 25000 years of galactic level civilization to spread around actually Specter of the Past on page 7 is the cited source of the 25000 star destroyers produced figure I do not dispute amount produced, I dispute it beeing Imperial class I star destroyers alone, It is combined number for Imperial class I, Class II (Chimeara was class II) and lot of victory class star destroyers, Venerators, Aclmators and interdictors (those were actualy built AFTER Thrawn told Imp. technicians how vagaari iterdiction technology worked). Plus the difference easily acounts of resources shifted to Emprire of the hand. Sentient species counts for example some sort of sentient trees on Ithor (well not anymore... wiped out by Vong)... Kiliks, individual verpine... You can kill million kiliks which are more or less sentient even on individual level and noone notices. Given the rather brought definition of sentience star wars enjoys... Come on... the single two planets with any reasoble populace shown in the movies are Coruscant and Geonosis. In clone wars, Rhodia seems siginificantly populated... everything else- again mudballs where nearly noone lives. Given choice. Ryloth seems unusualy empty... (well desert planet will never have much of any populace) And full membership does not mean planet will get a senator... Senat would have to consists of milion beeings... that would not work for 5 minutes. thats galactic populace versus whole system only inside emprie... you should note that half of galaxy are unknown regions, Hutt space, Corporate sector, Ascendancy, Hapes, Empire of the Hand, Tion Hegemony, so multiply habitable systems about 3 times. Account for fact that "sentient beeing" easily can be crystals, plants... Corellia does not have 85 billion, hell whole correlian star system does not have 85 billion sentients. and it has 5 habitable planets. And never had such populace in 20 thousand years. (probably you know... people are rich and smart enough and realize there is no point choking up children if they will spend rest of life unemployed) And it is one of the oldest inhabited planets... Edited September 12, 2012 by PaerisKiran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I do not dispute amount produced, I dispute it beeing Imperial class I star destroyers alone, It is combined number for Imperial class I, Class II (Chimeara was class II) and lot of victory class star destroyers, Venerators, Aclmators and interdictors (those were actualy built AFTER Thrawn told Imp. technicians how vagaari iterdiction technology worked). Plus the difference easily acounts of resources shifted to Emprire of the hand. Sentient species counts for example some sort of sentient trees on Ithor (well not anymore... wiped out by Vong)... Kiliks, individual verpine... You can kill million kiliks which are more or less sentient even on individual level and noone notices. Given the rather brought definition of sentience star wars enjoys... Come on... the single two planets with any reasoble populace shown in the movies are Coruscant and Geonosis. In clone wars, Rhodia seems siginificantly populated... everything else- again mudballs where nearly noone lives. Given choice. Ryloth seems unusualy empty... (well desert planet will never have much of any populace) And full membership does not mean planet will get a senator... Senat would have to consists of milion beeings... that would not work for 5 minutes. thats galactic populace versus whole system only inside emprie... you should note that half of galaxy are unknown regions, Hutt space, Corporate sector, Ascendancy, Hapes, Empire of the Hand, Tion Hegemony, so multiply habitable systems about 3 times. Account for fact that "sentient beeing" easily can be crystals, plants... Corellia does not have 85 billion, hell whole correlian star system does not have 85 billion sentients. and it has 5 habitable planets. And never had such populace in 20 thousand years. (probably you know... people are rich and smart enough and realize there is no point choking up children if they will spend rest of life unemployed) And it is one of the oldest inhabited planets... I never said Corellia had a pop of 85 billion I said Nar Shaddaa did... the PLANET Corellia, not the system, has a pop of 4 million... and even in the book YOU cited as your source of the number of star destroyers it specifically says "25000 Imperial class star destroyers" so that number included Imperial class I and II only and never said anything about 22000 or the other classes of imperial ships as you seem to claim... you seem to have problems reading and understanding what you read which I attribute your lack of understanding the written lore and my posts too well not really the bad guys don't have to make stupid errors you just need the good guys to outsmart the bad guys. Look at the Dark Knight. Batman outsmarts the Joker with out the Joker doing stupid mistakes. So the death star is half finished and the Emperor lets the news slip that he is onboard. Why did the Emperor need to there? He didn't actually have to show up. Why didn't the emperor have a back up shield generator on the planet? Why did he even need a shield generator on the planet? If he was smart he woudl have installed one on the death star as a back up and just make the rebels think that it is on the ground. Sure it's half finished but that doens't mean you needed a to leave the reactor completley unprotected. Yes we had 2 fleets the atlantic and the pacific. but still the point stands that we kept almost all of our ships including all of our aircraft carriers in one spot. During a war. yes we weren't at war but we knew there was a chance we would join the war. History is FULL of military blunders. In fact wasn't there a tv show on the history channel called Military Blunders? Hell look at his plane during the Clone Wars. He wanted to be kidnapped by Darth Greivus? Even though Grievus didn't know who he was? What if he died? What if Count Dooku told Anakin that he was the real sith lord? What if the Jedi just took the recorrding of Palpetine naming Anakin his dark apprentace to the Senate? There are so many stupid mistakes that Palpentine made having his entire fleet in one place to destroy the rebel allaince seems right on par. Hell why did he even let it slip that the death star was incomplete and he would be on it? Why not build it and THEN crush the Rebelion? Go with the Original plan from A New Hope. those are all arguments about the plot and are not written to be realistic and which doesn't have anything to do with what this thread is about... but ya again "a fleet" does not mean every single ship they have just a single unit that is comprised of whatever they decide to designate as a fleet for that purpose and the fact that all the canon specifically states that it was no where near every ship it's not really up for debate... I will agree that militaries make huge blunders all the time tho ... I served for 8 years so I know that one first hand Edited September 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 well not really the bad guys don't have to make stupid errors you just need the good guys to outsmart the bad guys. Look at the Dark Knight. Batman outsmarts the Joker with out the Joker doing stupid mistakes. So the death star is half finished and the Emperor lets the news slip that he is onboard. Why did the Emperor need to there? He didn't actually have to show up. Why didn't the emperor have a back up shield generator on the planet? Why did he even need a shield generator on the planet? If he was smart he woudl have installed one on the death star as a back up and just make the rebels think that it is on the ground. Sure it's half finished but that doens't mean you needed a to leave the reactor completley unprotected. Yes we had 2 fleets the atlantic and the pacific. but still the point stands that we kept almost all of our ships including all of our aircraft carriers in one spot. During a war. yes we weren't at war but we knew there was a chance we would join the war. History is FULL of military blunders. In fact wasn't there a tv show on the history channel called Military Blunders? Hell look at his plane during the Clone Wars. He wanted to be kidnapped by Darth Greivus? Even though Grievus didn't know who he was? What if he died? What if Count Dooku told Anakin that he was the real sith lord? What if the Jedi just took the recorrding of Palpetine naming Anakin his dark apprentace to the Senate? There are so many stupid mistakes that Palpentine made having his entire fleet in one place to destroy the rebel allaince seems right on par. Hell why did he even let it slip that the death star was incomplete and he would be on it? Why not build it and THEN crush the Rebelion? Go with the Original plan from A New Hope. Batman's smarter than Joker. Why? Because he's Batman The Emperor wanted to oversee the construction of his Death Star personally. Apparently the construction crews didn't understand that a war was going on and the ruler of the galaxy needed his superweapon. So he went to make sure it was done right. Perhaps a generator on the planet was cheaper. Perhaps a generator in the station would draw too much power from the super laser. Arrogance? Over-confidence? Perhaps he thought his massive fleet could deal with the rebel forces. Who's Darth Grievus? You mean General Grievous. The attack on Coruscant was a ploy, a trick. Palpatine had no intention of being kidnapped. He knew his future apprentice would be called back from the outer rim and would rescue him. Count Dooku believed that he would sit at Palpatines side as ruler of the galaxy. He would never do anything to jeapordize that. And Anakin wouldn't believe him anyway. Palpatine had already taken over the Senate when Obi-Wan found that recording. Like I said. He had to make sure the Death Star was completed on schedule. And he leaked his arrival to the Endor system to the Rebels. He planned to turn Luke to the Dark Side and destroy the Rebels in one glorious day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 specifically says "25000 Imperial class star destroyers" no no... it only says imperial star destroyers. Pelleaon was left with barely not imperial class specificaly... Imperial star destroyer also means any star destroyer that belonged to the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaerisKiran Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yes we had 2 fleets the atlantic and the pacific. but still the point stands that we kept almost all of our ships including all of our aircraft carriers in one spot. During a war. yes we weren't at war but we knew there was a chance we would join the war. You had 5 aircraft carries in pacific in the begining of the war Enterprise, Hornet, Lexington, Yorktown and Saratoga... at the important morning two of those were few dozen miles south of Pearl Harbor returning from a supply run, so please... where were the other free and their support craft? I would call that sufficient dispersion of forces without sacrificing operational mobility that Pearl Harbour gave you. Having everything on your western coast would effectively prevent US navy from dooing anything. So praise all gods you know that Japanese failed to destroy fuel suplies your fleet had there, without those you would have been unable to suistain your fleet from there. Rebuilding would take moths and you would not manage to do anything at all. Only blunder that was in Pearl harbor was that some idiot wasn´t watching the radar properly. the "antisabotage" setting of your forces was correct in given situation. all you really needed was to sound the alarms in time. It is easy to make your assets nearly invulnerable to attack... however in those state it is usualy unable to go anywhere or do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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