1.4 Mercenary PTS Design Notes (PVP):

[Krozis]

Mercenary

 

Due to changes in the Mercenary skill trees, all Mercenaries have had their skill points refunded.

Disabling Shot is a new ability that interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds.

 

Arsenal

Afterburners: Rocket Punch now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back.

Pinning Fire: This ability's snare has been increased to 70%.

Tracer Lock: Each stack of Tracer Lock now additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan by 20% per stack.

 

Bodyguard

Kolto Residue now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile by 50% for 3 seconds.

Warden is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect.

Peacekeeper is a new 2-point skill. While protected by your own Kolto Shell, firing Rapid Shots at an enemy now triggers your Kolto Shell (this can only happen once every 3 seconds). This does not trigger if your health is full.

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%.

 

There you go.... For PVP discussion what do you think?

 

I am still disappointed in the Rocket Punch changes. Pinning Fire sounds... 'ok'. Honestly I can't tell when it does work so I really don't know if it's an inconsequential ability, or it just wasn't working enough????

 

Yay for interrupt (overdue really) but I'm still not huge on the reduced cast time heal tied to Tracer Missile. Like I've said a few times, I use my insta-cast heal shot often in PVP... it's usually not really a big deal unless I get an amazing crit .

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 10, 2012 by Krozis

[yoomazir]

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%.

 

Thoughts?

 

... seriously?

Edited September 10, 2012 by yoomazir

[Nightkin]

I have been a merc player since launch, that said ive also played a PT, Sage, Assassin and a Jug up to rank 50 so i have something to compare with.

 

I really hoped 1.4 would bring some love for mercs, it really didnt. I cant bring myself to log on my merc anymore and thats pretty much the only class i enjoyed for pvp (i know, thats odd). But being the W O R S T class for pvp, the class that is N E V E R invited nor wanted gets old really fast!

 

Get your act together BW, this is beyond lousy. This is something, for once even, that pretty much the ENTIRE pvp community agrees on....mercs are useless. WHY DO YOU ALLOW THIS BW?!

 

Never thought i would be one to say this, but tomorrow ill buy GW2. Love star wars, but this is so dumb.

[Sinsavz]

So a nerf to pyro mercs. Just wow.

 

No root, a stun that has now been reduced to 10m range, and 1 crappy unreliable snare that has now been reduced from 50% slow to 30%.

 

Meanwhile pretty sizeable buffs to operatives, assassins, rage jugs/maras.

 

Fantastic. \o/

[Macroecon]

It's as if they listened to Merc Pyro complaints that we were inferior to PT Pyros. And responded by nerfing Merc Pyros a little and PT Pyros a lot. Doh.

 

This all goes back to what I've been saying for a long time - BW bases its class (im)balancing not on best practices for each class, but on overall meta average productivity from its in game stat collection. The classes that are insulated by waves of poor performing players will have their meta averages reduced and are guaranteed buffs going forward, even if they are already the most powerful subclass when piloted by a top player.

 

Additionally, since non-quantitative contributions to a teams success in a wz are not captured by BW's in game stat collection process, subclasses that excel in those areas of the game will always seem underpowered to BW and will receive buffs. Thus an Assassin's ability to exit combat when he is the last defender protecting a Voidstar door (or Alderaan node) and then attack a enemy capping the node 8 seconds later contributes virtually nothing to his damage stats, but are of vital importance and go unrecognized by BW when they adjust class (im)balance. In contrast a subclass like Merc dps which has zero utility and whose sole contribution to the team comes via dps captured in BW's in game stat collection will seem overpowered to BW and will be nerfed. Confirmation of this comes from BW itself, which has on multiple occasions stated that it feels classes are balanced if their dps output is within 5% of each other.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Macroecon

[Nightkin]

So a nerf to pyro mercs. Just wow.

 

No root, a stun that has now been reduced to 10m range, and 1 crappy unreliable snare that has now been reduced from 50% slow to 30%.

 

Meanwhile pretty sizeable buffs to operatives, assassins, rage jugs/maras.

 

Fantastic. \o/

Yeah, even though i have both a 50 assassin and a 50 jug i feel its high time to get of this train. The lack of pvp insight these changes indicate for mercs have left me with no hope whatsoever

[Molltor]

This all comes from bad design. Its a nerf to PT's, thats the intention, but due to the fact the abilities are not seperated in the design of the game (1 ability given to 2 AC's) it means that Pyro Mercs have to eat the nerf as well. Just like we did with Rail Shot, which is probably also the reason we have to accept Electro Dart being reduced to 10meters.

 

Bad design is making it impossible for Bioware to balance a game, along with using the damage from meta averages which are pulled from PvE.

[Macroecon]

This all comes from bad design. Its a nerf to PT's, thats the intention, but due to the fact the abilities are not seperated in the design of the game (1 ability given to 2 AC's) it means that Pyro Mercs have to eat the nerf as well. Just like we did with Rail Shot, which is probably also the reason we have to accept Electro Dart being reduced to 10meters.

 

Nah. They can differentiate between the subclasses. Thus IM goes to 10m range for PT but remains a 30m ability for Merc. Same for Thermal Det. So they can have abilities behave differently.

 

No, the explanation for why Merc Pyro dps gets nerfed is much more simple. BW thinks the class is overpowered. Yeah. Really.

[Molltor]

Nah. They can differentiate between the subclasses. Thus IM goes to 10m range for PT but remains a 30m ability for Merc. Same for Thermal Det. So they can have abilities behave differently.

 

No, the explanation for why Merc Pyro dps gets nerfed is much more simple. BW thinks the class is overpowered. Yeah. Really.

 

Laziness in the design of the game is the cause for the single abilities. Yes they have now seperated TD and IM for PT's to make them more melee range and to play into the hands of the nerf callers, but to seperate more is more than likely too much work.

 

Regardless to this anyway, classes having different rate slows is also bad design. Yes this is a team based pvp game and its not based on 1v1 but why should some ranged or some melee have a stronger slow than others? PT's have just joined the "P1ssed On from great heights" bracket, where for a long time us Mercs shared it only with Operatives. Since Operatives are getting a pretty decent buff, they have climbed out of it.

 

Judging class balance on meta averages which as a whole were based on PvE numbers is possibly the most retarded system in the world. Couple that with a singletrack system that, until now, had abilities shared over the AC's goes back to being bad design.

[Individual]

These changes are a joke!!! The real issue is DPS. If they were really trying to fix our survivability, they would of just increased the dmg our shield absorbs when we pop it. This is just them look we're trying, but they aren't really trying. THIS CLASS IS BROKE IN TERMS OF DPS. That's what people want fixed, not this crap.

[Soljin]

Its bad design and total lack of understanding of PvP applied strats for ranged vs. Melee.

 

Compare Merc/Commando DPS against a true turret ranged class SNIPER/Gunslinger.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger have increased dmg mitigation via Cover...Mercs have Heavy armor...which works out to less % mitigation then Cover.

 

People say mercs have heals...Heals we can never get off and due to our heat mechanic will just hurt our Dmg output due to over heating...AKA your just prolonging your inevitable death, or juking an interupt. Biowares answer to this? Oh lets make their piddly 1500hp heal instant at the expense of DMG...hmmm make it consume TL so they can get back enough HP to absorb half an attack from an enemy....SOunds great...Oh yeah and the heals on a CD to so super useful...

 

SniperGunslinger dont need to juke interupts because they have a CC immunity ability. Yet Mercs do not, and PT's do even though they have all instant abilities...Makes sense right? One of the Most vulnerable AC's to interupt have no way to even temporarily negate it.....Sure.

 

Then they decide Merc doesnt have it tough enough...Because they are so OP in PvP..So they give us a melee range root, and nerf our Hard Stun to melee range...This is also amazing design...AMAZING.

 

I think they forgot Merc is the Ranged BH AC...Seriously...they must be confused.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Soljin

[Krozis]

I honestly don't know what to do.

 

I am setting up more duels with some people I know... operatives, marauders. Trying to figure stuff out.

 

Honestly I really placed a lot of hope on 1.4 keeping me going with my Merc for PVP. Right now he is the most geared character I have, and I just looked over the new "elite" gear.

 

Ouch. Could I really go through all this again with another toon? IDK... I feel a little tired of defending my class to my guild, and then turning around and asking for help from BW on these forums.

[GrantyJPS]

Yep Im done, I havent played in a month and only kept up by sub to see 1.4.

 

Good luck to all my fellow merc/mandos who decide to stick with it. You have more patience than me!

[Henu]

Yep Im done, I havent played in a month and only kept up by sub to see 1.4.

 

Good luck to all my fellow merc/mandos who decide to stick with it. You have more patience than me!

 

well i got my valor to 80 and stopped and reading the patch notes for 1.4 means i might stop all together, might even stop gaming all together

[Krozis]

So I did a lot of testing last night.... a lot of experimenting.

 

I wrote a very long report on my findings trying to emulate the 1.4 changes, but it was too long so I will try to super condense this for the forum:

 

I dueled a full Warhero, Marauder friend of mine with a few of my 50's, but mostly with my Mercenary. Here are the results:

 

1. In Arsenal, the results, as expected were lethargic. I never even forced him to use his god-mode (Undying Rage) unless I specc'd Pyrotech. I went about 50/50 with my marauder friend with my OTHER toons, but with my Merc I never won once.... I only even came close once, as pyrotech.

 

2. The proposed changes to Rocket Punch opened my eyes to something: Rocket Punch as it stands right now, really is junk. It does put too much resolve on for doing almost nothing unless you are on a ledge! We know the ledge part, but we did try this as if he was ROOTED by the punch:

 

2B: Being Rooted by the Rocket Punch I seemed to be unable to escape a FULL Ravage!

 

2C: Being Rooted by the Rocket Punch my opponent would hit me with Force Choke if Ravage was on cool down. I have Warrior characters but this experiment did make it hit home just how far you really have to be to escape these abilities. Nevermind fear, or juggernaut slows, or the fact I was often ROOTED myself, completely NEGATING the fact my 'melee' opponent was also stuck 4 feet away from me.

 

3. The proposed -reduced cast time heal- A- Should NOT be tied to Tracer missile. This is a big mistake. B- Does not make enough of a DIFFERENCE EVEN though I was specc'd partially into the heal tree to get a quicker cool down, and 6% stronger heal from it!!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Conclusion:

 

- The Rocket Punch fix isn't going to do squat expect reduce resolve which is the only good thing it will in fact do. BUT as mentioned I realized in my testing that our current Rocket Punch is garbage because it fills so much resolve for what it does.

 

- We still have NO escape mechanism, and this weird heal really isn't very good for survivability at all. We still have access to an insta-cast heal and it doesn't make a difference. We NEED a get out of jail card, an escape mechanism.... a soft control even..... something like Carbonite Freezing.

 

- I know we are not built to be a 1v1 spec, but do we have to be so god-awful at it? I always felt I could hold my own against incompetents in WZ's with my Merc when people go Merc hunting but this really opened my eyes to why people go merc hunting so often in WZ's. I truly believe Merc is easily at the bottom of the 1v1 pile class wise.

 

As a side note we experimented with many things... I always thought cleansing was a good idea in Marauder fights... it blew me away how hard one Ravage would hit me for. (Willing to buy real Heavy armour!)

 

What do you cleanse? Before I cleansed often but I realized the amount of dots he could put on my was crazy, and eventually you find yourself in this defensive mode.... cleansing, healing... trying to escape... the Leap is on such a short cooldown....even moreso for Annihilation. It all seemed very futile, and once a DPS merc is in defensive mode in this circumstance, you are dead.

 

I found the entire experiment much more disheartening than I thought it would be.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Krozis

[frivera]

So I did a lot of testing last night.... a lot of experimenting.

 

I wrote a very long report on my findings trying to emulate the 1.4 changes, but it was too long so I will try to super condense this for the forum:

 

I dueled a full Warhero, Marauder friend of mine with a few of my 50's, but mostly with my Mercenary. Here are the results:

 

1. In Arsenal, the results, as expected were lethargic. I never even forced him to use his god-mode (Undying Rage) unless I specc'd Pyrotech. I went about 50/50 with my marauder friend with my OTHER toons, but with my Merc I never won once.... I only even came close once, as pyrotech.

 

2. The proposed changes to Rocket Punch opened my eyes to something: Rocket Punch as it stands right now, really is junk. It does put too much resolve on for doing almost nothing unless you are on a ledge! We know the ledge part, but we did try this as if he was ROOTED by the punch:

 

2B: Being Rooted by the Rocket Punch I seemed to be unable to escape a FULL Ravage!

 

2C: Being Rooted by the Rocket Punch my opponent would hit me with Force Choke if Ravage was on cool down. I have Warrior characters but this experiment did make it hit home just how far you really have to be to escape these abilities. Nevermind fear, or juggernaut slows, or the fact I was often ROOTED myself, completely NEGATING the fact my 'melee' opponent was also stuck 4 feet away from me.

 

3. The proposed -reduced cast time heal- A- Should NOT be tied to Tracer missile. This is a big mistake. B- Does not make enough of a DIFFERENCE EVEN though I was specc'd partially into the heal tree to get a quicker cool down, and 6% stronger heal from it!!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Conclusion:

 

- The Rocket Punch fix isn't going to do squat expect reduce resolve which is the only good thing it will in fact do. BUT as mentioned I realized in my testing that our current Rocket Punch is garbage because it fills so much resolve for what it does.

 

- We still have NO escape mechanism, and this weird heal really isn't very good for survivability at all. We still have access to an insta-cast heal and it doesn't make a difference. We NEED a get out of jail card, an escape mechanism.... a soft control even..... something like Carbonite Freezing.

 

- I know we are not built to be a 1v1 spec, but do we have to be so god-awful at it? I always felt I could hold my own against incompetents in WZ's with my Merc when people go Merc hunting but this really opened my eyes to why people go merc hunting so often in WZ's. I truly believe Merc is easily at the bottom of the 1v1 pile class wise.

 

As a side note we experimented with many things... I always thought cleansing was a good idea in Marauder fights... it blew me away how hard one Ravage would hit me for. (Willing to buy real Heavy armour!)

 

What do you cleanse? Before I cleansed often but I realized the amount of dots he could put on my was crazy, and eventually you find yourself in this defensive mode.... cleansing, healing... trying to escape... the Leap is on such a short cooldown....even moreso for Annihilation. It all seemed very futile, and once a DPS merc is in defensive mode in this circumstance, you are dead.

 

I found the entire experiment much more disheartening than I thought it would be.

 

Thanks, you confirmed what I already experienced. I want to pvp with my Merc, but damn, they are making it hard. Some matches I'll stay under the radar and do ok. Others, I'll have a Marauder or 2 that decide they want the easy Merc kills and chase me the entire battle. All I ask is for a little more defense, maybe a quick invis that let's me escape or a reliable cc. Oh well, back to my sniper.

[Krozis]

After all this experimenting (free heal, root rocket punch vs. melee) I have gone back to Pyrotech for PVP.

 

These changes to Arsenal are mostly smoke and mirrors... imo they won't really change the performance of the tree in PVP one percent.

 

(I've already proven to myself the root will just get me ravaged/chocked/ruptured/rooted in testing UNLESS I combine the rocket aoe knock back.... which is ridiculous. I've already proven to myself the free heal I can manufacture right now in duels/PVP is inconsequentially small.)

 

So yea, even though Pyro is getting turned down, I was forced to go back to it.

[Chaoskyx]

Anyone on the PTS tried a Bodyguard-Arsenal hybrid yet? Seems like the snare could useful enough to justify it.

 

Something like this.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Chaoskyx

[umamma]

Mercenary

 

Pyrotech (Mercenary)

Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%.

 

Thoughts?

 

I normally just roll with the punches, but this one really is mind boggling to me. This is truly a kick to the groin to an already feeble class. I cant imagine to many people are complaining about our snare as is. On Fatman I know of 2 people who PvP with a Merc that are any good.

 

Any good melee (Assassin, Jugg, and Mara) depending on spec can kite us now, and reducing this to 30% is only going to make our jobs more difficult (something we don't need). 'Concussion Missle' is useless for us being a dot class, our 25% DR is on a 2 min timer, Electro Dart (now 10m) and the Jet Pack push back is our only other way to keep people at distance(JK,Jug can be immune to this). As is we don't have the tools to keep good players away from us, and now your nerfing our best ability to keep people away:confused:

 

Honestly, you can keep the 'Interrupt' and let my ranged DPS keep his 30m ability's, and CGC snare as is. Overall your crippling a class that needs a little love.

 

If you need to nerf Pyro PT to keep them at melee range, don't cripple us even more. Give them new abilities that have the 10m range, and let us keep our ranged attacks at 30m. If you cant afford the developers to make a few new ability's for PT Pyro's then just keep them at 10m for PT, and 30m for Mercs.

 

Wow I did not see that one coming melee is going to insanely difficult, and good melee will obliterate us. Very frustrated...