Optimization Truth: It was NEVER my computer?

[MajikMyst]

You clearly do not understand software and hardware.

If any game or software does not live up to performance expected even though using a older OS (XP) yet the only thing that is different is people using newer OS (Windows 7) but the game is running better on older computers then clearly the software or game is the issue..

 

Ok.. Asus Sabertooth P67 mainboard, Intel I7 2600 Proc, 16 gigs Kingston HyperX DDR-3 ram, EVGA GTX 660 TI 2gb video card, Windows 7 64bit Ultimate...

 

I am having no performance issues.. I will say that I didn't realize my computer was old.. Nor did I realize the game was running better on older machines.. Perhaps I should dust off the old 286??

 

I worked for MS for 8 years in their Direct X department.. Let's not worry about what I do or do not understand about software and hardware..

 

If people want to sit on their hands and cry that the game runs horrible for them.. More power to them.. That has to be the dumbest stradegy in problem solving ever..

 

The point remains, some people are having issues, while others are not.. If the game is the same for all?? Where is the problem?? Not the game..

 

That isn't saying that there isn't things they can do to make the game better.. But like I said.. If all people want to do is sit on their hands and cry about performance issues.. They will have a long wait to get any problems fixed.. It is kinda hard to fix performance issues when people are unwilling to look at their own computers for some answers..

[Metalmac]

Ok.. Asus Sabertooth P67 mainboard, Intel I7 2600 Proc, 16 gigs Kingston HyperX DDR-3 ram, EVGA GTX 660 TI 2gb video card, Windows 7 64bit Ultimate...

 

I am having no performance issues.. I will say that I didn't realize my computer was old.. Nor did I realize the game was running better on older machines.. Perhaps I should dust off the old 286??

 

I worked for MS for 8 years in their Direct X department.. Let's not worry about what I do or do not understand about software and hardware..

 

If people want to sit on their hands and cry that the game runs horrible for them.. More power to them.. That has to be the dumbest stradegy in problem solving ever..

 

The point remains, some people are having issues, while others are not.. If the game is the same for all?? Where is the problem?? Not the game..

 

That isn't saying that there isn't things they can do to make the game better.. But like I said.. If all people want to do is sit on their hands and cry about performance issues.. They will have a long wait to get any problems fixed.. It is kinda hard to fix performance issues when people are unwilling to look at their own computers for some answers..

 

It has been stated many times that the game is single threaded but fakes multi-thread by having 2 .exe files.

 

This is why on my 2.93Ghz computer the game runs faster then on my buddies brand new 2.5Ghz Computer.

Both have a fresh install of Windows 7, both have up to date drivers and ATI cards are almost the same.

(Mine is older)

 

This game was designed around the Hero Engine that is XP based so single threaded engine.

 

This means the game runs faster on a single core 4Ghrz Pentium 4 then on a brand new 16 Core 2.5Ghz.

 

This is simple and easy to understand. So your point is taken but the problem is the 32 bit XP Hero Engine.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Metalmac

[FreePrometheus]

So that means no dips to 20-25 fps at max settings, 1080p and in a 16 man operation or the Nightmare Pilgrim on Voss?

 

Perhaps i should have said, no noticeable issues. Because i havent seen any problems. I didnt realise how truly beautiful (graphically) this game could be until recently.

 

Plus, i dont do... Well come to think of it... Any Ops. at least not yet. So that is yet to be seen. Who knows, i may find a flaw there. But i dont expect this PC to be 100% all the time

[Frumyrfrenzy]

Perhaps i should have said, no noticeable issues. Because i havent seen any problems. I didnt realise how truly beautiful (graphically) this game could be until recently.

 

Plus, i dont do... Well come to think of it... Any Ops. at least not yet. So that is yet to be seen. Who knows, i may find a flaw there. But i dont expect this PC to be 100% all the time

 

I see. Those are the circumstances (at least) I am talking about. As soon as there are 16 ppl fighting there is a noticable drop in frames per second right down to choppiness (around and below 25 fps). I was told by a CSR that my CPU (i7 2600) is too slow. I think this CPU should be able to handle 16 fighting players on screen, especially in a MMORPG. Hence I ask for an update about optimization.

[turjake]

I see. Those are the circumstances (at least) I am talking about. As soon as there are 16 ppl fighting there is a noticable drop in frames per second right down to choppiness (around and below 25 fps). I was told by a CSR that my CPU (i7 2600) is too slow. I think this CPU should be able to handle 16 fighting players on screen, especially in a MMORPG. Hence I ask for an update about optimization.

 

You have a separate graphics card, right? You are using the separate one and not the one integrated in to that processor?

[Deewe]

If the engine was working as intended:

 

We would have chat bubbles and shadows that doesn't look like 10 years old and a much farther draw distance.

[Frumyrfrenzy]

You have a separate graphics card, right? You are using the separate one and not the one integrated in to that processor?

 

I use the gtx 570. I even tried gtx 570 sli, which didn't help under those circumstances described, therefore the CPU (as stated by the CSR) is the bottleneck. If an i7 2600 is the bottleneck in a MMORPG with 16 players fighting, then it clearly points at optimization problems.

[Rogoo]

So... to all you people in denial.

 

Patch 1.3.7.

 

Absolutely NOTHING changed with my PC configuration.

 

My framerates dropped by about 50% after this patch.

 

It's surely something wrong with my rig, right ?

[LaVolpex]

Ok.. Asus Sabertooth P67 mainboard, Intel I7 2600 Proc, 16 gigs Kingston HyperX DDR-3 ram, EVGA GTX 660 TI 2gb video card, Windows 7 64bit Ultimate...

 

I am having no performance issues.. I will say that I didn't realize my computer was old.. Nor did I realize the game was running better on older machines.. Perhaps I should dust off the old 286??

 

I worked for MS for 8 years in their Direct X department.. Let's not worry about what I do or do not understand about software and hardware..

 

If people want to sit on their hands and cry that the game runs horrible for them.. More power to them.. That has to be the dumbest stradegy in problem solving ever..

 

The point remains, some people are having issues, while others are not.. If the game is the same for all?? Where is the problem?? Not the game..

 

That isn't saying that there isn't things they can do to make the game better.. But like I said.. If all people want to do is sit on their hands and cry about performance issues.. They will have a long wait to get any problems fixed.. It is kinda hard to fix performance issues when people are unwilling to look at their own computers for some answers..

 

there is no worse blind man than a fool that refuses to see

keep being a blind fanboy , that will really help the game move forward and be better...

[LaVolpex]

You have a separate graphics card, right? You are using the separate one and not the one integrated in to that processor?

 

/facepalm...

[whyzerman]

Your right it is simple.. But it isn't that simple.. Making the claim that my computer runs this game will so it should run SWTOR, is comparing apples to oranges at the very least.. You have also not invalidated a single point..

 

GW2 and this game run on completely different game engines.. Neither of which do the same thing or use the same methods to get things done.. So it is useless and lame to say my computer runs GW2 good so it should run SWTOR good.. That is simply the facts..

 

But you seem to be missing the simplest of points of this (the person you quoted) and many others like him/her and the OP. Regardless of the engine differences, entry level gamers are not going to stick with a game that sucks the life out of their system when there are other alternatives that run on their systems like a peach out of the box.

 

You can blame the PSU's, the SSD's, the single threaded nature of the games engine, but when it comes down to it, if I can spend $60 on a game and run it maxed out without tweaking my system, I am going to play that rather then a game that I have to spend $60 on, run on low settings until I can get decent upgrades. I still have FPS issues on my newly built system I spent over $1000 on with max settings. So to sum up - Noone cares about engines, noone cares about PSU's, noone cares about single threads. The issue isn't whether my computer is optimized for this game, the issue is whether or not this game is optimized at all.

 

Processor: Intel 3770k quad core (3.8GHz - 3.9GHz turbo) (not OC'd)

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Case: Antec Nine Hundred,

SSD: Samsung 830 128gb SSD - game and windows 7 installed on this.

Memory: Corsair 16gb DDR3 12800 Memory

750w Power Supply

Video Card :Asus GTX 560 (not OC'd)

 

 

Windows 7 64bit experience index = 7.7/7.9

Edited September 8, 2012 by whyzerman

[turjake]

/facepalm...

 

If you work solving peoples computer problems, you will soon learn that you should check the simple problems first, and leave debugging the laws of nature as last task. Smart people make simple mistakes quite often.

[Krewel]

I can't wait for the s**tstorm when the F2P crowd stampedes onto the servers and sees the full glory of the Hero engine, especially on the Fleet. Yeah, I'm pretty sure people who can't or won't afford 15 bucks for a sub usually have i7 2600k and gtx 600 Ti at their disposal.

 

Two things that immediately came to my mind when announcing F2P - 1) what will these newcomers think of the actual hardware demands of this MMO which does not at all appear very good (compared to Tera/GW2) and 2) how long will they tolerate LAG before realizing it's not their bandwidth.

 

They're really unleashing the pandora box of fail if they don't do some substantial optimizations this fall.

[Metalmac]

If you work solving peoples computer problems, you will soon learn that you should check the simple problems first, and leave debugging the laws of nature as last task. Smart people make simple mistakes quite often.

 

I am a Former IT worker and Retired Programmer.

I invested 4 days into reinstalls and debugging my computer to locate the problem.

Paid for Comcast to test everything on my network right back to the main Router 2 blocks away.

Found and used new tools to do network checking and stress tested my computer.

 

4 Days later I informed BioWare of the network problems are mostly at BioWare end Game Routers and the company that they lease them from. I was told by BioWare to check my computer. Idiots plain and simple.

[Rogoo]

Sup Bioware ? Could you please fix the 1.3.7 fiasco already ? o.O

 

Also, WTB a new QA team. Oh wait, the previous one got fired. Premium service!

[Styxx]

For a DX9 game from 2006, with subpar graphics, this is really not a question of hardware. Not to any "mainstream" 2011+ PC. More like crap software. Edited September 9, 2012 by Styxx

[Deewe]

I can't wait for the s**tstorm when the F2P crowd stampedes onto the servers and sees the full glory of the Hero engine, especially on the Fleet. Yeah, I'm pretty sure people who can't or won't afford 15 bucks for a sub usually have i7 2600k and gtx 600 Ti at their disposal.

 

Two things that immediately came to my mind when announcing F2P - 1) what will these newcomers think of the actual hardware demands of this MMO which does not at all appear very good (compared to Tera/GW2) and 2) how long will they tolerate LAG before realizing it's not their bandwidth.

 

They're really unleashing the pandora box of fail if they don't do some substantial optimizations this fall.

You have a point right here.

 

F2P People will compare with other F2P games graphics and FPS wise.

Versus GW2 and even LotRo the game does not compares that well.

 

Hopefully they found some talented coders to fix the engine, especially network syncing and the loading in the background for smoother transition.

[LordArtemis]

Something that someone else mentioned to me...having no options with respect to setting the distance at which flora and the like spawn in the world could contribute to the lag. If you have a system that can handle the huge cache and set it to maximum distance you can often reduce lag considerably by preloading. It does not load when you are right on top of the terrain or player.

 

I noticed this game does not have that feature. No matter how powerful your system is you are still forced to load models and textures at the absolute minimum distance.

[LaVolpex]

If you work solving peoples computer problems, you will soon learn that you should check the simple problems first, and leave debugging the laws of nature as last task. Smart people make simple mistakes quite often.

 

ive been gaming and building rigs for more than a decade...

 

you asking me if i am using an onboard gfx card is akin to asking me if i know how to open a door..

 

yes i have separate gfx card....i actually have two of them that run everything else i throw at them inculding games for dx10 and later , stop being condescending and treating me like im talking about a calculator

 

yes smart people make simple mistakes quite often , thats how they got smart actually, i promise you i made every mistake in the book and i can say without a shadow of a doubt that any other game with swtors requirements runs 100 times smoother on the same machine , no questions asked

[turjake]

I am a Former IT worker and Retired Programmer.

I invested 4 days into reinstalls and debugging my computer to locate the problem.

Paid for Comcast to test everything on my network right back to the main Router 2 blocks away.

Found and used new tools to do network checking and stress tested my computer.

 

4 Days later I informed BioWare of the network problems are mostly at BioWare end Game Routers and the company that they lease them from. I was told by BioWare to check my computer. Idiots plain and simple.

 

I was, in a way, trying to explain why the IT-support people do ask these basic questions every time. Their problem is that they have an angry customer on the phone/email/webforum and they need to figure out quickly what is the problem. They dont have time to figure out if the person they are talkin with has a doctorate in computer OS debugging or if he is retired florist who plays for fun few hours a week.

 

So they have these problem solving charts they follow. They start with basics like check the drivers, send msinfo, dxdiag and so on as you have seen if you have followed any thread in the technical support forum. They use it because its a method that works most of the time and is relatively simple.

 

Ofcourse sometimes it doesnt work either because the customer doesnt want to co-operate or the problem is in such a place the customer cannot do anything about it and the IT-support people dont have access to it, or for some reason cannot do anything about it.

 

True story:

me: my internet has a load of latency between 17-22 every evening. I cannot play fps-games with it.

cust supp: check your windows network blaa blaa...

me: I am running linux

cust supp: ... uhh we can do measurements of cable modem, just a sec...

cust supp: modem works. nothing else we can do.

me: fine, cya

-> next day I stopped ordering cable-net and ordered adsl instead from another company. Been using that ever since.

 

Problem was that the cable net segment had too many users, so when everyone was online the latency increased. Another problem was that they did not want to do anything about it.

[Jetronin]

The other reason they ask you to run all the tests is to gather evidence. They may have a fairly good idea whats causing certain issues but, like when I worked for an internet company (Sky BB /shudder), you have to start from scratch to prove that its not everything else before you move on to other stuff. Once they have gathered evidence you can then pass all of that on to get the issues resolved. If you are bolshy and don't help, you are just slowing the entire process down.

[NinjaApacHe]

Well, after latest patch my performance whent down......

[Metalmac]

I was, in a way, trying to explain why the IT-support people do ask these basic questions every time. Their problem is that they have an angry customer on the phone/email/webforum and they need to figure out quickly what is the problem. They dont have time to figure out if the person they are talkin with has a doctorate in computer OS debugging or if he is retired florist who plays for fun few hours a week.

 

So they have these problem solving charts they follow. They start with basics like check the drivers, send msinfo, dxdiag and so on as you have seen if you have followed any thread in the technical support forum. They use it because its a method that works most of the time and is relatively simple.

 

Ofcourse sometimes it doesnt work either because the customer doesnt want to co-operate or the problem is in such a place the customer cannot do anything about it and the IT-support people dont have access to it, or for some reason cannot do anything about it.

 

True story:

me: my internet has a load of latency between 17-22 every evening. I cannot play fps-games with it.

cust supp: check your windows network blaa blaa...

me: I am running linux

cust supp: ... uhh we can do measurements of cable modem, just a sec...

cust supp: modem works. nothing else we can do.

me: fine, cya

-> next day I stopped ordering cable-net and ordered adsl instead from another company. Been using that ever since.

 

Problem was that the cable net segment had too many users, so when everyone was online the latency increased. Another problem was that they did not want to do anything about it.

 

Well I play at all hours and an example is last night on "The Harbringer" I was alone on Ilum and getting 28ms so 5 minutes later 4 people showed up and my lag went to 99ms then dropped to 36ms. So this indicates that the problem is at BioWare end.

Nothing else would explain this huge lag spike at exactly the same time they showed up.

Previously a few nights before I was with 3 people on Belsavis and 12 people showed up and lag went from 32ms to 160ms then back down to 39ms. Again this is at BioWare end.

[Roalmo]

..... They may have a fairly good idea whats causing certain issues...

 

I agree with "may", it is unlikely, but they "may" have an idea.

[jcwsub]

I can say that I noticed a hit in perfomance after the Maint. on the 5th of Sept. In full disclosure my PC is from the early 2007 era using an old AMD 2600 @ 1.2 Ghz I believe?,and a cheap Nvidia 9500GT GPU. I have Win7 x64 and 8GB DDR2.

 

I know this is not ideal for any game but to be honest I was not expecting much when I installed SWtoR on this old rig but I played WoW with about a 35fps rate with little issue. I could not do 25man raids but 10man were manageable.

When i first started SWtoR about two weeks ago the framerate was decent and I did not see any issues in the low level FP's but after Wednesday I have started playing on my laptop which is much newer with a core i5 CPU, low end Nvidia 525 mobile GPU and 8GB DDR3 as even solo questing is terrible after last Wednesday on my vintage desktop.