Shield Spec: Taunts and Guard

[Miallen]

I have a question for everyone, mainly just some random things that I haven't managed to find the right answers for.

 

Guard: It works outside of 15m, yes? I read that damage redirection only works in PvP, is this also true? Otherwise, our guard is ok on anyone at any range?

 

Taunts: What would the greatest Threat Generation rotation be? Should I start in with heavy DPS, then start dropping taunts? Or is there some finesse to sustaining heavy aggro, especially at the start of a fight?

 

Thanks for your feedback guys.

-Miallen

[Kitru]

Guard: It works outside of 15m, yes? I read that damage redirection only works in PvP, is this also true? Otherwise, our guard is ok on anyone at any range?

 

No, Guard, for every tank, requires that the guarded target be within the given range to benefit from the effects of Guard. If the individual is out of it, it will not remove Guard; it will simply place a paired buff on them that removes all of the effects of Guard until they get back in range of the tank. As to the damage reduction, it still applies in PvE but *only* the damage reduction and the threat reduction apply. The damage redirection (wherein you take damage for the guarded target) only applies with damage dealt by players (this is to make up for the fact that aggro doesn't exist in PvP).

 

Taunts: What would the greatest Threat Generation rotation be? Should I start in with heavy DPS, then start dropping taunts? Or is there some finesse to sustaining heavy aggro, especially at the start of a fight?

 

Beyond the first 10 seconds of a fight, threat should be a complete non-issue. It's only during these opening seconds that DPS has even a remote chance of not completely being eclipsed by tank threat generation (assuming that both tank and DPS are in similar gear levels; if the DPS is vastly overgeared, the tank can have threat problems the entire time). In general, if I can't open up with Mortar Volley, I Storm or simply run in, shooting every individual target I can with Ion Pulse/Energy Blast, Hammer Shot and/or HiB at least once (HiB has the AoE spread which can speed things up a bit but requires a DoT so it's not always possible; Ion Pulse/Energy Blast are good for generating your absorb stacks early when trash DPS is more intense), but you can also add Explosive Surge if you're not near any CC, simply to get some baseline threat on the target (re: get them off of the healer). After that I move on to the single target threat gen on the biggest threat (which, hopefully, the DPS have been ignoring in favor of standards and strongs).

 

The basic priority for ST threat gen is Stockstrike>HiB>Ion Pulse>Hammer Shot. Energy Blast should be used on (even if you're full on ammo, you can just use Ion Pulse once and you'll still get the full benefit of the ammo regain), Explosive Surge if you're not near any CC'd targets, have the free cast, and aren't at full ammo, and your various AoEs where appropriate (some people swear by Sticky Grenade, but I do not; Mortar Volley and Pulse Cannon are all I've ever needed).

 

Beyond your actual threat gen, it's important to remember that taunts, both Neural Jolt and Sonic Round, have 2 effects on them. The first is that they force the target to attack you for 6 seconds, which you probably recognize pretty easily, and the second is that they immediately place your existing threat at the amount needed to pull threat off of the current highest threat on their aggro table, even if this person is already you (which is percentage based upon your current threat, meaning that the more threat you have, the more aggro taunt provides). Using your taunt as an opener or within the first few GCDs of a fight, before substantial threat has been generated by healing (on targets that aren't attacked or have been CCd the entire fight, healing threat will pretty much always be on top) or dps, you're pretty much wasting the taunt unless you're also punching the target for the 6 seconds it is forced to attack you (elsewise, it's likely to just go back to beating someone else after the time is up). This is one of the reasons why threat is a non-issue after the first 10 seconds or so of a fight: after this time, most enemies have an appreciable amount of threat on them that a single taunt is going to provide you with more than enough threat to keep you above any potential competitors for at least as long as it takes for your taunt to recharge (and presumably use it again if you're really worried about threat). If there are no threat drops for you to worry about, taunting on CD will, on its own, generate a *vast* majority of any possible threat you could generate over the course of a boss fight.

[Miallen]

No, Guard, for every tank, requires that the guarded target be within the given range to benefit from the effects of Guard. If the individual is out of it, it will not remove Guard; it will simply place a paired buff on them that removes all of the effects of Guard until they get back in range of the tank. As to the damage reduction, it still applies in PvE but *only* the damage reduction and the threat reduction apply. The damage redirection (wherein you take damage for the guarded target) only applies with damage dealt by players (this is to make up for the fact that aggro doesn't exist in PvP).

 

Beyond the first 10 seconds of a fight, threat should be a complete non-issue. It's only during these opening seconds that DPS has even a remote chance of not completely being eclipsed by tank threat generation (assuming that both tank and DPS are in similar gear levels; if the DPS is vastly overgeared, the tank can have threat problems the entire time). In general, if I can't open up with Mortar Volley, I Storm or simply run in, shooting every individual target I can with Ion Pulse/Energy Blast, Hammer Shot and/or HiB at least once (HiB has the AoE spread which can speed things up a bit but requires a DoT so it's not always possible; Ion Pulse/Energy Blast are good for generating your absorb stacks early when trash DPS is more intense), but you can also add Explosive Surge if you're not near any CC, simply to get some baseline threat on the target (re: get them off of the healer). After that I move on to the single target threat gen on the biggest threat (which, hopefully, the DPS have been ignoring in favor of standards and strongs).

 

The basic priority for ST threat gen is Stockstrike>HiB>Ion Pulse>Hammer Shot. Energy Blast should be used on (even if you're full on ammo, you can just use Ion Pulse once and you'll still get the full benefit of the ammo regain), Explosive Surge if you're not near any CC'd targets, have the free cast, and aren't at full ammo, and your various AoEs where appropriate (some people swear by Sticky Grenade, but I do not; Mortar Volley and Pulse Cannon are all I've ever needed).

 

Beyond your actual threat gen, it's important to remember that taunts, both Neural Jolt and Sonic Round, have 2 effects on them. The first is that they force the target to attack you for 6 seconds, which you probably recognize pretty easily, and the second is that they immediately place your existing threat at the amount needed to pull threat off of the current highest threat on their aggro table, even if this person is already you (which is percentage based upon your current threat, meaning that the more threat you have, the more aggro taunt provides). Using your taunt as an opener or within the first few GCDs of a fight, before substantial threat has been generated by healing (on targets that aren't attacked or have been CCd the entire fight, healing threat will pretty much always be on top) or dps, you're pretty much wasting the taunt unless you're also punching the target for the 6 seconds it is forced to attack you (elsewise, it's likely to just go back to beating someone else after the time is up). This is one of the reasons why threat is a non-issue after the first 10 seconds or so of a fight: after this time, most enemies have an appreciable amount of threat on them that a single taunt is going to provide you with more than enough threat to keep you above any potential competitors for at least as long as it takes for your taunt to recharge (and presumably use it again if you're really worried about threat). If there are no threat drops for you to worry about, taunting on CD will, on its own, generate a *vast* majority of any possible threat you could generate over the course of a boss fight.

 

Thanks Kit.

I haven't had much issue keeping threat once the fight is underway, it just always seems I'm fighting off the DPS to maintain it at the start. Aside from that, starting off my VG, it's been a different beast for me (BH Geared Commando Assault to Rakata/Columi mixed VG Shield). My biggest concern is that I'm wanting to make sure that I'm doing everything to hold aggro I can, thus the questions. I've ran a couple Ops, but I am so far from knowing all I need to know about the class, even still.

 

Thank you for the suggestions and things to keep in mind. I'll definitely give it a run tonight.

[Spatology]

PvP benefits require you be within the 15 yards. All pve benefits are not dependant on range.

 

You wont get teh dmg transferal for pvp unless you are within 15 yards.

[Kitru]

All pve benefits are not dependant on range

 

The PvE benefits *do* require a target be within range to benefit from them. It's been tested and confirmed several times. There's even a debuff that points it out.

[Spatology]

I believe the buff does indeed point out...that "damadge won't be redirected"(the pvp benefit) Idk perhaps I'm a loon

[SafeJungleFever]

 

Beyond your actual threat gen, it's important to remember that taunts, both Neural Jolt and Sonic Round, have 2 effects on them. The first is that they force the target to attack you for 6 seconds, which you probably recognize pretty easily, and the second is that they immediately place your existing threat at the amount needed to pull threat off of the current highest threat on their aggro table, even if this person is already you (which is percentage based upon your current threat, meaning that the more threat you have, the more aggro taunt provides). Using your taunt as an opener or within the first few GCDs of a fight, before substantial threat has been generated by healing (on targets that aren't attacked or have been CCd the entire fight, healing threat will pretty much always be on top) or dps, you're pretty much wasting the taunt unless you're also punching the target for the 6 seconds it is forced to attack you (elsewise, it's likely to just go back to beating someone else after the time is up). This is one of the reasons why threat is a non-issue after the first 10 seconds or so of a fight: after this time, most enemies have an appreciable amount of threat on them that a single taunt is going to provide you with more than enough threat to keep you above any potential competitors for at least as long as it takes for your taunt to recharge (and presumably use it again if you're really worried about threat). If there are no threat drops for you to worry about, taunting on CD will, on its own, generate a *vast* majority of any possible threat you could generate over the course of a boss fight.

 

Wow thanks for that. Seriously. As a new tank and new to video games, let alone MMOs, I absolutely loved this. Not only was it clearly written, but it also helped me understand 'threat' and taunt mechanics far better than anything else i've read.

[SafeJungleFever]

The PvE benefits *do* require a target be within range to benefit from them. It's been tested and confirmed several times. There's even a debuff that points it out.

 

I believe the threat-reduction does work at range.

[Atramar]

I believe the threat-reduction does work at range.

 

you belive wrong. it has been proven, plus only PT and Marauders are worth guard any way.

[Spatology]

go read your guard tool tip. the threat reduction and 5% dmg reduction have no range associated with their buffs. The debuff comes up as an easy way for a tank to spot if their guarded healer is in range, at 15 yards.

[Marb]

go read your guard tool tip. the threat reduction and 5% dmg reduction have no range associated with their buffs. The debuff comes up as an easy way for a tank to spot if their guarded healer is in range, at 15 yards.

 

This is how I read it also.

[Miallen]

This is how I read it also.

 

This was my impression as well, thus the reason I asked about it to be honest.

[TheRampage]

Just a tip - I'm max geared, and when my sentinel (who I guard!) goes to enrage mode he pulls from me (and I'm in my normal rotation). So watch for situations like that, drop taunt now and then when u know this might happen.

 

So far only sentinel does that to me, didn't notice shadow or vanguard.

[Darth_Dreselus]

The PvE 5% damage reduction works over 30m. If you do not believe me, zone into Denova have some one go into the exhaustion zone and see how much damage they take. Then guard them and see how much damage they take. Then go to 30m+ and see how much damage they take. As long as they have guard the damage will be reduced by 5%. I can only guess threat works the same way, it is harder to test out but you could kill the first group except one mob and then have them attack it with guard on but over 30m. Upload the log to torparse.com and see if attacks only generated 75% threat. Obviously this does not have to be the trash in Denova, something with a lot of HP but low damage would work well such as an underleveled word boss (I.E attack the Coruscant World boss or something.) I will try it later on today and post my findings.

 

Furthermore the PvP tank set bonus (increased damage while guarding someone) also works at any range. The only thing that depends on range is the 50% PvP damage redirection which requires the targets to stand at 15m from eaach other.

 

As for taunts:

 

A taunt does 2 things. (PvE)

 

1. Applies a 6 second debuff on the target forcing it to attack you.

2. If you are standing within ¬2m (varies and depends on hitbox) you will be given 110% of the highest person's threat (even of that person was you, as such taunts can be used throughout the fight to keep your threat up if you don't need them for a mechanic). If you are standing over 2m it gives you 130% of threat. The max range for taunt is 30m.

 

Proof:

 

All fights are just leap and taunt: http://www.torparse.com/a/46888

1. taunt at 1m - 110%

2. failed attempt, didn't taunt in time

3. taunt at 2.5m - 130%

4. taunt at 6m - 130%

5. not on the parser as I merely taunted and there was 0 threat and 130% of 0 is 0. Strangely enough the threat gained was 2.

 

[23:10:19.348] [@Filthy-rich] [Operations Training Target MK-5 {2816265890562048}:3238000006867] [] [Event {836045448945472}: Taunt {836045448945488}] () <2>

 

That was also the case with the other fights, I got 2 more threat on top of the 110/130%. Yay me =D

 

Ignore the rest of the parsed fights that's just me messing about with openers.

 

In PvP the taunt lowers the target's damage dealt to allied players (but not you) by I believe 20% for 6s but not sure about the specific numbers..

Edited November 14, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus