Exarr Kun vs. Vader

[Aurbere]

Strength is really nothing against Powerful Force-Users.

 

He had physical strength advantage against Luke, but Luke was pretty much as powerful as a 4 year-old Jedi...

 

This is true, but when Vader fought Luke he was holding back. Says Luke, though.

[BrandonSM]

This is true, but when Vader fought Luke he was holding back. Says Luke, though.

 

Thats true.

 

 

All I'm saying is actual physical strength is pretty much useless in a battle with a Force-Users.

 

Perfect example is Yoda..

[Aurbere]

Thats true.

 

 

All I'm saying is actual physical strength is pretty much useless in a battle with a Force-Users.

 

Perfect example is Yoda..

 

I guess it depends on who you are fighting. Because Vaders strength played a pivotal role in several of his fights with Jedi. Although none of them were very powerful

 

I think Yoda could beat Vader because Vader wouldn't be able to hit him. And Vader's fighting style relies on his ability to hit his target. So if Exar Kun can play keep away, Vader would lose.

[VigDiath]

Lets break it down to terms that relate to SWTOR to get a better idea of the roles each of them would play.

 

Anakin before becoming Darth Vader would most likely have been a Jedi Guardian. But I don't think he would be considered a Tank since he was a very offensive fighter so I would say he is more along the lines of a DPS Guardian. Anakin as Darth Vader even more of an offensive fighter so definitely a Juggernaut with a heavy focus on DPS. Even so, he was still one of the strongest Force Users at that time and probably matched up comparably to Jedi and Sith of previous times as well.

 

Now to Exar Kun. Exar Kun with his force abilities and lightsaber fighting style utilizing two lightsabers at one time to defeat his master and then creating and using a double bladed lightsaber at a later time would be considered a Sith Inquisitor/Assasin. Again a heavy focus on DPS since he balanced his force skills to augment his dueling skills. Also considered one of the strongest force users of his time though not of all time.

 

Now to add another perspective to the mix. Ulic Qel-Droma and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Both in my opinion would be considered Tanks since they were both defensive fighters. Obi-Wan a practitioner of Soresu and Ulic a practioner of Djem So. Ulic an apprentice though barely to Exar Kun and Obi-Wan a Master to Anakin. Neither able to really defeat the other. I don't consider Anakin's failure to defeat Obi-Wan a defeat by Anakin, but rather a defeat by his arrogance. Anakin couldn't penetrate Obi-Wans defenses despite all he threw at him but yet Anakin would not have given up. Exar Kun could not defeat Ulic either but rather it was Marka Ragnos, I believe, who intervened and decreed that one would be the master and the other the apprentice.

 

Now to their prowess in battles. We know of 3 people that Exar Kun defeated in lightsaber duels. Odan-Urr, his fellow apprentice Crado and his Master Vodo Siosk Baas. Despite all the battles with Luke and the NJO he did not defeat any of them. In fact, more than anything he converted the Jedi he came across rather than fighting them. So we can never fully gauge his status as a warrior except based on those 3 fights.

 

Dath Vader on the other hand is a different story. We have a list of Jedi he has defeated. Dark Woman, a strong an fierce warrior and force user. Cin Drallig, one of the orders best duelists and trainers at the time. Cin Drallig's apprentice, also in her own right a very well trained duelist. Count Dooku. Vader faced 8 Jedi Knights including a few Master's and survived the attack on him in a mine on Kessels. He slew many Jedi Knights and padawans at the start of Order 66. Not sure if any Masters were present other than Cin Drallig but I imagine there were.

 

As both Anakin and Darth Vader he was a formidable opponent. Skilled in the ways of the force but even more so as a duelist. He was a Dark Side wrecking ball! Exar Kun also a great duelist and force user, however would NOT have been able to defeat Darth Vader. It may come down to a close tie, but I believe that with his fighting skills and force abilities Vader would win.

[BrandonSM]

Lets break it down to terms that relate to SWTOR to get a better idea of the roles each of them would play.

 

Anakin before becoming Darth Vader would most likely have been a Jedi Guardian. But I don't think he would be considered a Tank since he was a very offensive fighter so I would say he is more along the lines of a DPS Guardian. Anakin as Darth Vader even more of an offensive fighter so definitely a Juggernaut with a heavy focus on DPS. Even so, he was still one of the strongest Force Users at that time and probably matched up comparably to Jedi and Sith of previous times as well.

 

Now to Exar Kun. Exar Kun with his force abilities and lightsaber fighting style utilizing two lightsabers at one time to defeat his master and then creating and using a double bladed lightsaber at a later time would be considered a Sith Inquisitor/Assasin. Again a heavy focus on DPS since he balanced his force skills to augment his dueling skills. Also considered one of the strongest force users of his time though not of all time.

 

Now to add another perspective to the mix. Ulic Qel-Droma and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Both in my opinion would be considered Tanks since they were both defensive fighters. Obi-Wan a practitioner of Soresu and Ulic a practioner of Djem So. Ulic an apprentice though barely to Exar Kun and Obi-Wan a Master to Anakin. Neither able to really defeat the other. I don't consider Anakin's failure to defeat Obi-Wan a defeat by Anakin, but rather a defeat by his arrogance. Anakin couldn't penetrate Obi-Wans defenses despite all he threw at him but yet Anakin would not have given up. Exar Kun could not defeat Ulic either but rather it was Marka Ragnos, I believe, who intervened and decreed that one would be the master and the other the apprentice.

 

Now to their prowess in battles. We know of 3 people that Exar Kun defeated in lightsaber duels. Odan-Urr, his fellow apprentice Crado and his Master Vodo Siosk Baas. Despite all the battles with Luke and the NJO he did not defeat any of them. In fact, more than anything he converted the Jedi he came across rather than fighting them. So we can never fully gauge his status as a warrior except based on those 3 fights.

 

Dath Vader on the other hand is a different story. We have a list of Jedi he has defeated. Dark Woman, a strong an fierce warrior and force user. Cin Drallig, one of the orders best duelists and trainers at the time. Cin Drallig's apprentice, also in her own right a very well trained duelist. Count Dooku. Vader faced 8 Jedi Knights including a few Master's and survived the attack on him in a mine on Kessels. He slew many Jedi Knights and padawans at the start of Order 66. Not sure if any Masters were present other than Cin Drallig but I imagine there were.

 

As both Anakin and Darth Vader he was a formidable opponent. Skilled in the ways of the force but even more so as a duelist. He was a Dark Side wrecking ball! Exar Kun also a great duelist and force user, however would NOT have been able to defeat Darth Vader. It may come down to a close tie, but I believe that with his fighting skills and force abilities Vader would win.

 

 

 

You judge a persons skill based on how many kills and who they killed.

 

Thats a mistake.

 

But if thats what you want to do, Kun drained the life force of the entire Massassi Race.

 

Vader could not kill his enemies as a spirit like Kun could.

 

And then Kun could destroy walls with a single force blast. Force Flight would keep Vader away from him and then Kun would blast him to pieces.

 

He could create Creatures made of pure dark-side energies.

[tunewalker]

Firstly you cannot be sure that Vader has come across that variation..... it is a rare variation - I haven't seen anyone else with it so unless you specifically have seen Vader come across it (and have a canon source) - then it is probably more likely that he hasn't than he has..... I used an actual canon example of Vader Facing Jar Kai and the problems that it gave him.....

 

Secondly - Djem So is not particularly Subtle (and a Shien variant so not completely out of nowhere) - it is effective but it doesn't really have any complex variances that would confuse Kun - If he tries to meet force with force - then yes he may be in trouble but if he realises that it is very heavily a power based style and fight appropriately against it ..... Niman is an adaptable Style (If you are an actual Master of it - not talking about that crappy 'diplomats form' that has given Niman a bad name) Kun is a good fighting style analyst....Yes - Vader is very good at Shien and can probably use it effectively agianst anybody- however Makashi is the style that is said to have a specific weakness to Djem So....

Also, After Vader was encased the armoured form - he actually changed his Style from a more pure Form V- he realised that he needed to fight a bit more defensively and started mixing in a lot more Soresu (and ironically) Niman with his Djem So, to make an individual style more suitable for him to use in the armour

 

Thirdly - of course Jar Kai is known to Vader - but Maul has shown very specifically that he Does have a weakness to it (perhaps due to having less mobility in the armour - and the speed/relentlessness of the 2 sabers).

Also this was not down to my own interpretation - as the comic narrative did say that switching to Djem So gave Maul the advantage over Vader

As I said before perhaps part of that could have been due to Maul's specific individual ability and a factor could be how Exar Kun's fighting/physical ability compares with that of Maul....I am willing to concede that point but that is down to if you think Maul was a more effective fighter than Exar Kun....

 

Actually that isnt an uncommon form of Light saber combat Niman with duel blades is actually the MOST common form of Jar Kai out there. Ever single Jar Kai user has experience in Niman Jar Kai. As Niman is a gateway into Jar Kai itself and was originally derived from a duel wielding sword style (a style used before the advent of lightsabers). The duel saber user in clone wars is an example of this (dont remember her name but she is like maul in the fact that she uses jar kai niman and juyo P.s. I dont think the maul fight is technically cannon and if it is it was long before vader had fully developed his style which was specifically designed to compensate for his lack of mobility and shut down mobile opponents the more mobile an opponent the more likely vader would tear him apart. And while Exar Kun knew shien the Djem So variant that Vader employed would cause him issue because Shien was not known for the imidiate counter assaults Djem So was.

 

Also where the video was off was force powers any one who has ever studied any kind of martial art (or any art for that matter) knows that the basics are just as important if not more so then the advanced techniques. Vader shows a much better understanding and mastery of basic telekenetic powers. This pure mastery would be just as overwhelming to Kun, who had not mastered those powers quite as much and instead wanted to dabble in the more advanced techniques, as the advanced techniques kun had available. Further more Vader was more likely to use his powers in a fight do to his training in the Dun Mash sith tactic. Also being the adaptible style Niman is most of its practitioners think in the moment (including Exar Kun) and Vader would be thinking 12 moves ahead allowing him to push his opponent into a position that he just can't get out of. Exar Kun's dark energy blast ability isnt even known if it would work on a dark sider as he only ever used it on light side opponents there is a chance it would do nothing to vader while vaders telekentic abilities would simply overwhelm Exar Kun. Honostly i would give them an even footing on force powers one knows more advanced techniques while the other is a true master of the basics both of which are just as deadly. Of course military tactics wise Vader would have an edge his personal style is specifically designed to counter agile opponents and its something Exar Kun has never seen before.

Edited September 3, 2012 by tunewalker

[VigDiath]

You judge a persons skill based on how many kills and who they killed.

 

Thats a mistake.

 

But if thats what you want to do, Kun drained the life force of the entire Massassi Race.

 

Vader could not kill his enemies as a spirit like Kun could.

 

And then Kun could destroy walls with a single force blast. Force Flight would keep Vader away from him and then Kun would blast him to pieces.

 

He could create Creatures made of pure dark-side energies.

 

Thats what those proficient in the dark arts do...they find ways to kill using the force. Vader preferred a more direct approach using his lightsaber. And I'm not basing it simply on kills. Vader was a powerful force user but he didn't go the route that Inquisitors would go. He didn't use the force to that end unless it was force choking someone, force persuading someone, or force pushing someone. But just because you don't use the force in that manner does not make you any weaker than someone who does. Look at Darth Bane. He studied techniques in the force to make him harder to defeat but not really to kill. And he was one of tne baddest Sith....EVER! lol

[Mandorain]

We talken pre robo Vader or post Robo Vader?

[BrandonSM]

We talken pre robo Vader or post Robo Vader?

 

 

Vader in his prime.

[Beniboybling]

You judge a persons skill based on how many kills and who they killed.

 

Thats a mistake.

 

But if thats what you want to do, Kun drained the life force of the entire Massassi Race.

 

Vader could not kill his enemies as a spirit like Kun could.

 

And then Kun could destroy walls with a single force blast. Force Flight would keep Vader away from him and then Kun would blast him to pieces.

 

He could create Creatures made of pure dark-side energies.

 

I doubt Kun would have time to create creatures out of dark-side energy with a human wrecking ball charging him. And you've also got to remember that Vader has his ways of getting close to Kun - he wouldn't just attempt to rush him. Powers like force pull/push and force leap could get him close.

 

Whatsmore if Kun wanted to use his lightsaber, which is his greatest strength he would have to get in close. And how powerful in the force is Kun? Would he have enough energy to keep vader at bay and destroy him with force powers alone?

[Rayla_Felana]

After reading the last page or two, I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody here even read the Tales of the Jedi comics nor have they much information about the Old Sith Wars era beyond KotOR.

 

Exar Kun is NOT just one of the most powerful of his time, he was given the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith by Marka Ragnos himself for a reason you know. he is easily one of the most powerful Sith ever, just hearing Bindo and the like talk about him suggests he made the KotOR series Sith/Jedi look like amateurs in comparison.

 

He wasn't just powerful, he was one of the most infamous Sith Lords in history, he turned a peaceful galaxy into a hell hole and made the Ancient Sith of the Golden Age crown him the new Dark Lord for a new Golden Age of the Sith, the Jedi were in disarray with Kun, they didn't believe they could beat him at all, it took the entire Jedi order to stop him from leaving Yavin IV as a spirit, he then came back around 4 millennia later to trash the NJO, he claimed to have the power to rebuild his own body through the force, he dominated minds and made the temple and it's inhabitants chaotic and infested.

 

Vader has a great command of Force Grip and telekinesis but Exar Kun had Flight and Force Blast among his other greater powers, all enhanced heavily by his Sith amulets, etc...

 

Also I find the Darth Bane comparison to Vader quite humorous, given the fact Darth Zannah beat him and took his arm off with her mind and Sith Sorcery, something Kun was a full master of, reportedly creating the dreaded Terentateks and draining the life force of the entire Massassi race on Yavin IV among other things.

 

Exar Kun as a duellist was infamously renowned for reintroducing staff saber combat, then mixed with Niman and Jar'kai, and elements of Juyo and Shii-cho that he later introduced after his crowning as Dark Lord, where Lightsaber skills are concerned, it's totally up in the air between him and Vader.

 

Where the force is concerned, Kun simply makes Vader look amateur.

 

Want an idea of how powerful Exar Kun was and how charismatic of a leader he was? Darth Sion, the Sith Lord that hunted down and killed over a hundred Jedi single-handedly for forty years was one of Kun's cronnies(?) and wasn't even considered one of Kun's main Dark Jedi at the time.

 

It is as simple as that.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Aurbere]

After reading the last page or two, I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody here even read the Tales of the Jedi comics nor have they much information about the Old Sith Wars era beyond KotOR.

 

Exar Kun is NOT just one of the most powerful of his time, he was given the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith by Marka Ragnos himself for a reason you know. he is easily one of the most powerful Sith ever, just hearing Bindo and the like talk about him suggests he made the KotOR series Sith/Jedi look like amateurs in comparison.

 

He wasn't just powerful, he was one of the most infamous Sith Lords in history, he turned a peaceful galaxy into a hell hole and made the Ancient Sith of the Golden Age crown him the new Dark Lord for a new Golden Age of the Sith, the Jedi were in disarray with Kun, they didn't believe they could beat him at all, it took the entire Jedi order to stop him from leaving Yavin IV as a spirit, he then came back around 4 millennia later to trash the NJO, he claimed to have the power to rebuild his own body through the force, he dominated minds and made the temple and it's inhabitants chaotic and infested.

 

Vader has a great command of Force Grip and telekinesis but Exar Kun had Flight and Force Blast among his other greater powers, all enhanced heavily by his Sith amulets, etc...

 

Also I find the Darth Bane comparison to Vader quite humorous, given the fact Darth Zannah beat him and took his arm off with her mind and Sith Sorcery, something Kun was a full master of, reportedly creating the dreaded Terentateks and draining the life force of the entire Massassi race on Yavin IV among other things.

 

Exar Kun as a duellist was infamously renowned for reintroducing staff saber combat, then mixed with Niman and Jar'kai, and elements of Juyo and Shii-cho that he later introduced after his crowning as Dark Lord, where Lightsaber skills are concerned, it's totally up in the air between him and Vader.

 

Where the force is concerned, Kun simply makes Vader look amateur.

 

Want an idea of how powerful Exar Kun was and how charismatic of a leader he was? Darth Sion, the Sith Lord that hunted down and killed over a hundred Jedi single-handedly for forty years was one of Kun's cronnies(?) and wasn't even considered one of Kun's main Dark Jedi at the time.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

All of this is why I have been stating that Exar Kun is one of the few pre-PT era Sith that can go toe-to-toe with the Jedi and Sith of the PT and NJO.

 

And, no, I haven't read any Star Wars comics. I prefer books. And cronies is spelled with one "n".

Edited September 4, 2012 by Aurbere

[BrandonSM]

I doubt Kun would have time to create creatures out of dark-side energy with a human wrecking ball charging him. And you've also got to remember that Vader has his ways of getting close to Kun - he wouldn't just attempt to rush him. Powers like force pull/push and force leap could get him close.

 

Whatsmore if Kun wanted to use his lightsaber, which is his greatest strength he would have to get in close. And how powerful in the force is Kun? Would he have enough energy to keep vader at bay and destroy him with force powers alone?

 

With saber mastery and Force mastery.

 

Kun is 3 on my top 10 most powerful Sith.

 

Why?

 

I haven't read the comics, because I don't read comics but if you read his wookiee page. He is a very cool and interesting Sith. And intensely powerful.

Edited September 4, 2012 by BrandonSM

[fellblade]

After reading the last page or two, I have come to the conclusion that almost nobody here even read the Tales of the Jedi comics nor have they much information about the Old Sith Wars era beyond KotOR.

 

Exar Kun is NOT just one of the most powerful of his time, he was given the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith by Marka Ragnos himself for a reason you know. he is easily one of the most powerful Sith ever, just hearing Bindo and the like talk about him suggests he made the KotOR series Sith/Jedi look like amateurs in comparison.

 

He wasn't just powerful, he was one of the most infamous Sith Lords in history, he turned a peaceful galaxy into a hell hole and made the Ancient Sith of the Golden Age crown him the new Dark Lord for a new Golden Age of the Sith, the Jedi were in disarray with Kun, they didn't believe they could beat him at all, it took the entire Jedi order to stop him from leaving Yavin IV as a spirit, he then came back around 4 millennia later to trash the NJO, he claimed to have the power to rebuild his own body through the force, he dominated minds and made the temple and it's inhabitants chaotic and infested.

 

Vader has a great command of Force Grip and telekinesis but Exar Kun had Flight and Force Blast among his other greater powers, all enhanced heavily by his Sith amulets, etc...

 

Also I find the Darth Bane comparison to Vader quite humorous, given the fact Darth Zannah beat him and took his arm off with her mind and Sith Sorcery, something Kun was a full master of, reportedly creating the dreaded Terentateks and draining the life force of the entire Massassi race on Yavin IV among other things.

 

Exar Kun as a duellist was infamously renowned for reintroducing staff saber combat, then mixed with Niman and Jar'kai, and elements of Juyo and Shii-cho that he later introduced after his crowning as Dark Lord, where Lightsaber skills are concerned, it's totally up in the air between him and Vader.

 

Where the force is concerned, Kun simply makes Vader look amateur.

 

Want an idea of how powerful Exar Kun was and how charismatic of a leader he was? Darth Sion, the Sith Lord that hunted down and killed over a hundred Jedi single-handedly for forty years was one of Kun's cronnies(?) and wasn't even considered one of Kun's main Dark Jedi at the time.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

I was one of those that actually said that it was possible for Exar Kun to beat Vader (Even in Lightsaber duelling) and I gave my reasons why I thought he could.....

 

Although here I do think you are kinda selling Vader short on Force Power -

While I don't know that much about Kun - What I know of him is Very Impressive and from what I see he is definitley a More Versatile Force user than Vader with a lot more variety to his arsenal.

 

However, here we are talking about a specific one-on-one matchup.

So this does not mean that Exar Kun can necessarily bring this all to bear upon Vader - Vader is strong in the force and has good defences so a lot of these powers may be nullified by Vader. (what I'm saying is that (for example) if Kun has 10 different types of force blast and Vader can deflect all these types - in this particular fight it doesn't really matter that he has 10 different types or if he only had 1 or 2 types if Vader can stop them all......)

 

Also while less versatile - Vader does have a lot of Raw power in the force and is Very adept at Telekinetics which can still be used in many different ways in a fight.

If Vader is focused - His Push, Pull, Choking and Crush powers will be hard to resist and will take a lot out of an opponent he can also use Kinetite projectiles as well.

 

Whatever way you look at it - I think that this would be a Tough Fight

[Rayla_Felana]

I was one of those that actually said that it was possible for Exar Kun to beat Vader (Even in Lightsaber duelling) and I gave my reasons why I thought he could.....

 

Although here I do think you are kinda selling Vader short on Force Power -

While I don't know that much about Kun - What I know of him is Very Impressive and from what I see he is definitley a More Versatile Force user than Vader with a lot more variety to his arsenal.

 

However, here we are talking about a specific one-on-one matchup.

So this does not mean that Exar Kun can necessarily bring this all to bear upon Vader - Vader is strong in the force and has good defences so a lot of these powers may be nullified by Vader. (what I'm saying is that (for example) if Kun has 10 different types of force blast and Vader can deflect all these types - in this particular fight it doesn't really matter that he has 10 different types or if he only had 1 or 2 types if Vader can stop them all......)

 

Also while less versatile - Vader does have a lot of Raw power in the force and is Very adept at Telekinetics which can still be used in many different ways in a fight.

If Vader is focused - His Push, Pull, Choking and Crush powers will be hard to resist and will take a lot out of an opponent he can also use Kinetite projectiles as well.

 

Whatever way you look at it - I think that this would be a Tough Fight

 

Force Blast is not something along the lines of Lightning, it is a more concentrated and deadly version of Force Wave, so deadly, it killed a giant Force Wyrm on contact. Also, for some reason, Vader doesn't seem to use Choke or general Grip abilities that much in battle, perhaps because they don't work to well against trained force users at maximum strength, with force barriers up, etc... that makes sense.

 

Now Vader may well have been one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever, but Exar Kun is simply one of the most powerful Dark Lords of the Sith ever, in-fact quite a few lore buffs around here would agree he'd come third in that list, behind Sidious and Caedus.

 

I hate to make Vader look like any less of a dominant force than he was, but this is kind of a mis-match, especially considering that Vader doesn't outright dominate Kun here, which he is used to, in-fact he may very well be on the defensive in a duel against a master of Jar'kai and Niman, with perfected techniques in Juyo and Shii-cho implemented in his lightsaber prowess.

 

Oh and for anyone who brings up the 'But he couldn't beat Ulic' arguments, he was only just starting his path to power at that time, whereas Ulic Qel-Droma had fallen to the Dark Side quite a bit before then, later on towards Ulic's betrayal, Exar Kun was far far more skilled and powerful and could quite easily have crushed his apprentice any time he wished, the point where he marches into the senate kills Master Vodo, frees Ulic and they slaughter everyone in the chamber including the Supreme Chancellor says everything and the Jedi are helpless to stop him.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[fellblade]

Force Blast is not something along the lines of Lightning, it is a more concentrated and deadly version of Force Wave, so deadly, it killed a giant Force Wyrm on contact. Also, for some reason, Vader doesn't seem to use Choke or general Grip abilities that much in battle, perhaps because they don't work to well against trained force users at maximum strength, with force barriers up, etc... that makes sense.

 

Now Vader may well have been one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever, but Exar Kun is simply one of the most powerful Dark Lords of the Sith ever, in-fact quite a few lore buffs around here would agree he'd come third in that list, behind Sidious and Caedus.

 

I hate to make Vader look like any less of a dominant force than he was, but this is kind of a mis-match, especially considering that Vader doesn't outright dominate Kun here, which he is used to, in-fact he may very well be on the defensive in a duel against a master of Jar'kai and Niman, with perfected techniques in Juyo and Shii-cho implemented in his lightsaber prowess.

 

Oh and for anyone who brings up the 'But he couldn't beat Ulic' arguments, he was only just starting his path to power at that time, whereas Ulic Qel-Droma had fallen to the Dark Side quite a bit before then, later on towards Ulic's betrayal, Exar Kun was far far more skilled and powerful and could quite easily have crushed his apprentice any time he wished, the point where he marches into the senate kills Master Vodo, frees Ulic and they slaughter everyone in the chamber including the Supreme Chancellor says everything and the Jedi are helpless to stop him.

 

You are not saying anything too differently that I was saying - With the Force Powers yes Kun could probably nullify most of Vader's abilities as well and it would most likely be primarily a Lightsaber Fight - And I was probably the first to point out that his specific style may be suited to Fight Vader as I used Maul as a baseline (seeing as there is at least a canon Vader Vs Maul fight) and I think Maul stylistically is the closest thing to Exar Kun that Vader would have fought - also it was proof that Vader cannot just simply overpower everybody toe to toe - even without Jar Kai Maul got in a few kicks and punches inticating that he could spot (or create) gaps in Vader's defences also Vader was unable to use direct telekinesis on him (pretty much as you said with using powers against other powerful force users) - Without that not taking the kill straight away (there is even a part where Maul turns around as he hears a shuttle landing???!!!) and gloating part at the end, which allowed Vader to come back and surprise him - Maul would have won that fight....

 

Funny thing - is that if Vader is one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever - would that make Maul also one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever?

But I guarantee you that nobody would give Maul that kind of credit here (even with canon evidence)

It seems thay may not give Exar Kun that kind of credit either - when it seems that he undoubtedly was....

[Rayla_Felana]

You are not saying anything too differently that I was saying - With the Force Powers yes Kun could probably nullify most of Vader's abilities as well and it would most likely be primarily a Lightsaber Fight - And I was probably the first to point out that his specific style may be suited to Fight Vader as I used Maul as a baseline (seeing as there is at least a canon Vader Vs Maul fight) and I think Maul stylistically is the closest thing to Exar Kun that Vader would have fought - also it was proof that Vader cannot just simply overpower everybody toe to toe - even without Jar Kai Maul got in a few kicks and punches inticating that he could spot (or create) gaps in Vader's defences also Vader was unable to use direct telekinesis on him (pretty much as you said with using powers against other powerful force users) - Without that not taking the kill straight away (there is even a part where Maul turns around as he hears a shuttle landing???!!!) and gloating part at the end, which allowed Vader to come back and surprise him - Maul would have won that fight....

 

Funny thing - is that if Vader is one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever - would that make Maul also one of the most dominant lightsaber duellists ever?

But I guarantee you that nobody would give Maul that kind of credit here (even with canon evidence)

It seems thay may not give Exar Kun that kind of credit either - when it seems that he undoubtedly was....

 

Maul is undoubtedly one of the most skilled and honed Lightsaber duellists of all time, he is very under-rated given the fact that even before the Phantom Menace he almost killed Darth Sidious during his final test.

[Beniboybling]

Force Blast is not something along the lines of Lightning, it is a more concentrated and deadly version of Force Wave, so deadly, it killed a giant Force Wyrm on contact. Also, for some reason, Vader doesn't seem to use Choke or general Grip abilities that much in battle, perhaps because they don't work to well against trained force users at maximum strength, with force barriers up, etc... that makes sense.

 

Your correct on the force choke, many trained force users and defend against it through concentration. However, Vader is very adept in using it and has been known to be able to break through a jedi's concentration. Also force blast not being a force lighting ability in fact gives Vader something of an advantage as force lighting is a great weakness of his. His armour also gives him the ability to absorb such a blast if it were to hit.

[Aurbere]

Your correct on the force choke, many trained force users and defend against it through concentration. However, Vader is very adept in using it and has been known to be able to break through a jedi's concentration. Also force blast not being a force lighting ability in fact gives Vader something of an advantage as force lighting is a great weakness of his. His armour also gives him the ability to absorb such a blast if it were to hit.

 

Now, Vader's suit isn't weak to lightning. In fact, it has some resistance to lightning. Look at the Satrkiller vs. Vader battle on Kamino. Vader only fell to his knees after being electrocuted for who knows how long. The only lightning that had a true effect on his suit was the lightning of the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy. And that was when he wasn't trying to kill Luke. That lightning was meant for torture and it killed Vader. But that is because of his weakened body after his duel with Luke.

[Rayla_Felana]

Your correct on the force choke, many trained force users and defend against it through concentration. However, Vader is very adept in using it and has been known to be able to break through a jedi's concentration. Also force blast not being a force lighting ability in fact gives Vader something of an advantage as force lighting is a great weakness of his. His armour also gives him the ability to absorb such a blast if it were to hit.

 

His armor is thicker than durasteel? DAYUM! no, but in all seriousness, Kun blasted through a durasteel wall with incredible ease.

 

Also as Aurbere stated, it is not his weakness, he only died through a combination of giving up his rage, which had primarily kept him alive for years, being blasted point blank with the most powerful Force Lightning ever and his life support broken.

[Beniboybling]

His armor is thicker than durasteel? DAYUM! no, but in all seriousness, Kun blasted through a durasteel wall with incredible ease.

 

Also as Aurbere stated, it is not his weakness, he only died through a combination of giving up his rage, which had primarily kept him alive for years, being blasted point blank with the most powerful Force Lightning ever and his life support broken.

 

Accept that wall didn't have the force and wasn't forged using sith alchemy, his armor is not thicker than durasteel, but it is stronger - I doubt Exar Kun could blast a hole through Vader, or even severly damage him with a force blast. What Aurbere said was an example, Vader was only defeated by a extremely powerful blast of force lighting from Starkiler, and that only subdued him. (and if you chose the dark side ending he just gets up as if nothing happened )

 

Perhaps I was wrong about the force lightining, but that only adds to Vader's strengths.

[BrandonSM]

Force Blasts are more powerful than Lightning.

 

 

 

All your talking about is Force Blasts, if it was planned fight Vader would be blown away.

 

If it was a fight out of nowhere, Vader would be blown away.

 

Kun has much more abilities other than Force Blast. Vader's only real defense is his extremely powerful telekinesis. But that won't save him from the powerful force abilities of Exar Kun.

 

 

As a friggin spirit he burned a Jedi from the inside out and managed to nearly destroy the 12 Jedi including Luke Skywalker who became the most powerful Jedi of all time and was considered Master then.

 

 

I don't see Vader flinging around Corran Horn as a spirit..

[Rayla_Felana]

Force Blasts are more powerful than Lightning.

 

 

 

All your talking about is Force Blasts, if it was planned fight Vader would be blown away.

 

If it was a fight out of nowhere, Vader would be blown away.

 

Kun has much more abilities other than Force Blast. Vader's only real defense is his extremely powerful telekinesis. But that won't save him from the powerful force abilities of Exar Kun.

 

 

As a friggin spirit he burned a Jedi from the inside out and managed to nearly destroy the 12 Jedi including Luke Skywalker who became the most powerful Jedi of all time and was considered Master then.

 

 

I don't see Vader flinging around Corran Horn as a spirit..

 

Exactly, this is just a mis-match.

 

Vader is one of the Great Whites in Star Wars, Kun is one of the few Megalodons.

[BrandonSM]

Exactly, this is just a mis-match.

 

Vader is one of the Great Whites in Star Wars, Kun is one of the few Megalodons.

 

Sidious is... the Megalodons of Megalodons

 

 

While Luke is the giganotosaurus.

[Rayla_Felana]

Sidious is... the Megalodons of Megalodons

 

 

While Luke is the giganotosaurus.

 

*cough* Spinosaurus Aegypticus > All *cough*

 

I think Darth Baras would be the Argentinosaurus, because he uses the same tactic against his rivals, he outgrows the competition, the Cake is a lie, there is only pie, through pie I gain calories, through calories I gain weight, through weight, my belt is broken, the couch shall set me free.