Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 never said that meetra didnt exist, like said in a previous post the revan book and swtor pretty much end her story the server names had alot of kotor 2 refrences and you will be able to buy nihlus's mask in the cash shop what more do you want, just play kotor 2 again with all the mods if you cant get enough its unfair to accuse bioware of ignoring kotor 2 they obviously dont [but should] Revan has what? three different questlines about him, Darth Bandon the nobody apprentice of Malak gets his own reference, the entire of Revan's party had statues built about them and that's the tip of the iceberg. The thing you have missed out is the fact that Bioware and more importantly DK took it upon themselves to end the Knights storyline which inevitably means KotOR II, they half-heartedly did so and used the Exile as a plot device to stick their cashcow in this game, Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) The Starforge is just another super weapon. Nothing special. The Mando Wars is just another war, nothing special either. The Revan plot twist? Oh you mean something that you could see a mile away? It's just another identity plot twist. Same as the OT with Vader being Anakin. Destruction of Taris=/=Alderaan. The Rakata was a bit interesting though. Everything that's been done in K1 is basically the exact same thing that's been done in the OT, with slight changes. another super weapon that was created by a anciant race of force users before it was discovered on tython powered by the dark force and could produce entire fleets yeah thats been done thousands of times not to mention the story in finding it and why it exsisted in the first place, mando wars nothing special creating a divide in the jedi destroying worlds like serricho and beating back the republic yeah nothing there story wise, the revan plot I forgot how smart you are and heaven forbid that a star wars story mirror clasic themes like detroying a planet or someone being more than you originally know why would any starwars fan want that in a star wars story still waiting for you to defend your game if you even can... Edited August 24, 2012 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 and anyone saying kotor 2 story was better is just wrong, Welcome to the world, where people have opposing opinions, want to hear mine? KotOR II's far more mature and unique Star Wars story is far superior to the extremely childish rehash of the original trilogy that is the first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 another super weapon that was created by a anciant race of force users before it was discovered on tython powered by the dark force and could produce entire fleets yeah thats been done thousands of times not to mention the story in finding it and why it excisted in the first place, mando wars nothing special creating a divide in the jedi destroying worlds like serricho and beating back the republic yeah nothing there story wise, the revan plot I forgot how smart you are and heaven forbid that a star wars story mirror clasic themes like detroying a planet or someone being more than you originally know why would any starwars fan want that in a star wars story still waiting for you to defend your game if you even can... If look at all of the Star Wars EU, there's been tons of super weapons capable of galactic conquest, destruction of world, etc etc. It makes no difference to me. It's origins means nothing if the way it works is just another material means of conquest. If it actually had something to do with the force, not just the ability to make fleets, then it'd be a little more interesting. Yeah you're right, TCW did nothing to the jedi order and did nothing to scar worlds. It'st just another war. And again, like you originally retorted with my original post, you attack my intelligence first, a sign of a losing argument. TSL: depicts the force (the thing that the whole galaxy is based off of) as something that's not always pure. It shows the force being manipulative and what's wrong with the galaxy. It goes beyond the material means of galactic conquest by showing a villain that's become a black hole, caused by the force, on the path of total destruction of the galaxy, something a star forge would never be able to do. It's an original plot, not needing to borrow much of anything from the movies. It's something original in itself and that's already a big plus. It breathes new life into the Star Wars universe. If I wanted to, I could go into much more detail, but I don't want to/don't need to. It's opinion. That's the Internet. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I have read the book and it quickly turned the Exile into another mediocre Jedi with nothing special about her whatsoever and the randomly thrown in bits of praise spread about doesn't make it better. really you didnt feel for her when she was talking with bastillia and her devotion to finding her friend who she knew was getting into more then he was ready for, her alliance with scorge and and how she handeled herself on dromond kass. breaking out revan and giving him his mask. her emotions when revan asked her to join him while he watched the video of bastilia and their child. I just dont understand haters these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) really you didnt feel for her when she was talking with bastillia and her devotion to finding her friend who she knew was getting into more then he was ready for, her alliance with scorge and and how she handeled herself on dromond kass. breaking out revan and giving him his mask. her emotions when revan asked her to join him while he watched the video of bastilia and their child. I just dont understand haters these days You missed the whole point, all the things that made her strange and different and unique, were simply ignored, she became just another Jedi, just another follower of Revan, when she hadn't been ever since the end of the Mandalorian Wars, DK seemed to either ignore that or simply not know it, like a few other things he's admitted to knowing nothing about in direct emails to me. Edited August 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Opinions, opinions, opinions. And all the butt hurt fanboys in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You missed the whole point, all the things that made her strange and different and unique, were simply ignored, she became just another Jedi, just another follower of Revan, when she hadn't been ever since the end of the Mandalorian Wars, DK seemed to either ignore that or simply not know it, like a few other things he's admitted to knowing nothing about in direct emails to me. This. Bioware completely scraps everything in TSL in order to feed more and more hype into their glorified jelly fish character, Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 If look at all of the Star Wars EU, there's been tons of super weapons capable of galactic conquest, destruction of world, etc etc. It makes no difference to me. It's origins means nothing if the way it works is just another material means of conquest. If it actually had something to do with the force, not just the ability to make fleets, then it'd be a little more interesting. Yeah you're right, TCW did nothing to the jedi order and did nothing to scar worlds. It'st just another war. And again, like you originally retorted with my original post, you attack my intelligence first, a sign of a losing argument. TSL: depicts the force (the thing that the whole galaxy is based off of) as something that's not always pure. It shows the force being manipulative and what's wrong with the galaxy. It goes beyond the material means of galactic conquest by showing a villain that's become a black hole, caused by the force, on the path of total destruction of the galaxy, something a star forge would never be able to do. It's an original plot, not needing to borrow much of anything from the movies. It's something original in itself and that's already a big plus. It breathes new life into the Star Wars universe. If I wanted to, I could go into much more detail, but I don't want to/don't need to. It's opinion. That's the Internet. Get over it. I would agree 100% [the idea is good] the way it is told and all the plot holes make it a bad story, even with the mods nihalus and sion are explained badly and their history doesnt make sense. I dont remeber anything about the force having motives but I am not all that familiar with the mod versions since they were so buggy but I have played throgh them, the force being what was wrong with the galaxy allways just seemed like kreias point of veiw they game did not reflect this and again kreias motives and actions seemed shoe horned in and did not fit the character. the main plot also had nothing to do with kotor which is kinda dumb considering it was a sequel and not a stand alone star wars game still comes nowhere close to the huge story of kotor see is it so hard to actualy make a point instead of just trying to be arrogant and an *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I see more possibilities with going deeper into the Sith Side of KOTOR 2 in this game than going into the Jedi side. Because DK pretty much ruined Meetra, but he didnt ruin the Sith.. I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I would agree 100% [the idea is good] the way it is told and all the plot holes make it a bad story, even with the mods nihalus and sion are explained badly and their history doesnt make sense. I dont remeber anything about the force having motives but I am not all that familiar with the mod versions since they were so buggy but I have played throgh them, the force being what was wrong with the galaxy allways just seemed like kreias point of veiw they game did not reflect this and again kreias motives and actions seemed shoe horned in and did not fit the character. the main plot also had nothing to do with kotor which is kinda dumb considering it was a sequel and not a stand alone star wars game still comes nowhere close to the huge story of kotor see is it so hard to actualy make a point instead of just trying to be arrogant and an *** I'm done arguing with the likes of you, someone who clearly can't take others opinions. The fact that you try and state as fact that TSL is so insignificant. Don't criticize me without looking at yourself. You don't look at the bigger picture in the story. The way planets were affected by just the presence of the force and how one jedi and one sith put into one planet can have the potential of completely ruining the lives of everyone else. That's how the story depicts the force as something that's not always pure. You act childish towards anyone that has a different opinion. There's a big difference between a debate and trying to talk down to someone that thinks differently than you. Have fun being Internet Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You missed the whole point, all the things that made her strange and different and unique, were simply ignored, she became just another Jedi, just another follower of Revan, when she hadn't been ever since the end of the Mandalorian Wars, DK seemed to either ignore that or simply not know it, like a few other things he's admitted to knowing nothing about in direct emails to me. true but he pulls it off when bastillia is thinking to herself about meetra and how what happened to her was for her alone and only she knew what went on, and it was revans story not hers. like I said his retcon was the best way to go because if you incorporate the kotor 2 plot into the old republic era it would change everything, so he made it a isolated incident that happened to this individual not the intire galaxy or jedi order as to beable to continue the old republic era. as for her being a typical jedi I did not get that from her, she was deffinatly trobled and had experianced something that seperated her from the rest of the order to each their own I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm done arguing with the likes of you, someone who clearly can't take others opinions. The fact that you try and state as fact that TSL is so insignificant. Don't criticize me without looking at yourself. You don't look at the bigger picture in the story. The way planets were affected by just the presence of the force and how one jedi and one sith put into one planet can have the potential of completely ruining the lives of everyone else. That's how the story depicts the force as something that's not always pure. You act childish towards anyone that has a different opinion. There's a big difference between a debate and trying to talk down to someone that thinks differently than you. Have fun being Internet Hitler. thats fine you only have one point anyway and their are plenty in the star wars eu who think that force users cause more problems than good not that original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 thats fine you only have one point anyway and their are plenty in the star wars eu who think that force users cause more problems than good not that original Are you still butt hurt because I don't agree with you? You can stop replying now, the debate is over. It's a matter of opinion and clearly not mine nor yours will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Are you still butt hurt because I don't agree with you? You can stop replying now, the debate is over. It's a matter of opinion and clearly not mine nor yours will change. but I wanted the last word /pout Edited August 24, 2012 by Vis-Tecum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Welcome to the world, where people have opposing opinions, want to hear mine? KotOR II's far more mature and unique Star Wars story is far superior to the extremely childish rehash of the original trilogy that is the first game. correction I just dont understand hipsters these days settle down its just a joke you kotor 2 fans are something else, good thing there is only 2 of you [again just a joke easy now] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) It's odd. I agree with the OP that TSL is the better of the two games, yet when I see a thread like this, my eyes roll so hard that you think someone just told me to do a barrel roll. As for this (rhetorical) question: ....want to hear mine? After the first 50 times, maybe. Now? No. I don't. I think we've gotten it by now. And I think you should have the magnanimity to, what's the phrase? Deal with it. Edited August 24, 2012 by AlyxDinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 It's odd. I agree with the OP that TSL is the better of the two games, yet when I see a thread like this, my eyes roll so hard that you think someone just told me to do a barrel roll. The shame is, I don't want this to become a KotOR vs KotOR II thread, because that isn't the point, what I am asking for is a bit of recognition for the game that made this storyline possible in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The shame is, I don't want this to become a KotOR vs KotOR II thread, because that isn't the point, what I am asking for is a bit of recognition for the game that made this storyline possible in the first place. Just because the recognition doesn't take the form you like doesn't mean it isn't there. As for your first statement, forgive me if I don't take your word for having much weight. If you didn't mean for people to potentially discuss the merits of the two games, you wouldn't have come in here demanding greater recognition for the one you felt was superior. So don't lie. Even to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Just because the recognition doesn't take the form you like doesn't mean it isn't there. As for your first statement, forgive me if I don't take your word for having much weight. If you didn't mean for people to potentially discuss the merits of the two games, you wouldn't have come in here demanding greater recognition for the one you felt was superior. So don't lie. Even to yourself. And the respect level drops, I hate assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LasherC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 what? brianna is great she tells you about the echani and her mother being a jedi and how her father the echani general fell in love, not only that she can be used without a weapon [awsome] and visas who is a darkside miraluka enough said, mira is ok her story with the wookie bounty hunter is really good and atton has a really cool story and conversations on the ebon hawk with his pazzak trick, then you have barad dur or what ever whith his little droid and goto who are interesting. even atris, onderons queen, and the last jedi had good stories, I hated canderous as mandalore in that awful mask, his conversations and use of the mandalorians was awsome though Mno. Boring, annoying or weird ( in a non-compelling way ), all of them. kreia on the other hand was all "dont do that, dont do that" anytime I did anything and was constantly working against me, at first it was cool with her trying to live outside the force walking that grey line trying to not live by the forces rules if she would just shut up and let me finish a mission, but then in a horrible "plot twist" oh she is really just a sith and has been using you the whole time and has this whole acadamy of force users even though shes all anti force and then they end the game abruptly with no conclusion and its just over as you fly away and malachor blows up again for some reason It's not a horrible plot twist, it's an awesome one. Everything about her is awesome from her beliefs when it comes to behavior to her hate of the force. Kotor 1 on the other hand, had interesting characters, but a generic story. Enjoyable, but generic nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Mno. Boring, annoying or weird ( in a non-compelling way ), all of them. It's not a horrible plot twist, it's an awesome one. Everything about her is awesome from her beliefs when it comes to behavior to her hate of the force. Kotor 1 on the other hand, had interesting characters, but a generic story. Enjoyable, but generic nonetheless. yawn boring nothing new I like how all the kotor 2 fans want so much originality but all use the same reason/excuse for why kotor 2 is the savior of all star wars originality. instead of any examples of why you dont like the characters or their stories you just dismiss it and say it was nothing new so it sucked. its all just oh its so generic and rehashed as to my plot twist comment the reason I call it horrible is because it was obvious they were going to make kreia a sith [and the end fight] no suprise there. she should of stayed true to her character and stayed grey and tried to guide the exile away from the force but they threw in the whole trayus acadamy at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) And the respect level drops, I hate assumptions. Don't speak about your respect level for me like it's anything I care about or as if you're anyone of significance. You know who makes posts like that? Egotists. At the end of the day, saying "I didn't want this to become a versus thread" while also accusing Karypshan or other writers of this or that act of injustice, etc, towards the sacred cow of TSL is nearly the definition of disingenuous. If you hate assumptions, I hate liars more, dear. Because regardless of what you might think, the references are there. The Exile is in the game. As said, just because it doesn't pander and kowtow to the thing that you and I enjoy better than the original in the way we would have liked...doesn't mean that they're not paying it lip service. And I suspect they partially want to keep it touched less for plenty of reasons other than mere preferential treatment towards their own material anyways. So, the wounded martyr, "The Exile deserved more!" act needs to stop because she didn't deserve anything to begin with. The same way that people complain about Revan in TOR and say he deserved better. And bare in mind that as I tell you this I'm speaking as someone who loves her as a positive, powerful female character in gaming media in general. And as someone who is replaying TSL currently again because they love it that much. But this vague notion of BioWare having to do something or "They really ought to do x thing...", is a joke. And a bad one. We've been hearing on these forums ever since the Dark Wars didn't get a timeline video. It was tiresome then and by now, it's just banal. It's done. It's canon. It happened. Let it go, Indiana. Edited August 24, 2012 by AlyxDinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Don't speak about your respect level for me like it's anything I care about or as if you're anyone of significance. You know who makes posts like that? Egotists. At the end of the day, saying "I didn't want this to become a versus thread" while also accusing Karypshan or other writers of this or that act of injustice, etc, towards the sacred cow of TSL is nearly the definition of disingenuous. If you hate assumptions, I hate liars more, dear. Because regardless of what you might think, the references are there. The Exile is in the game. As said, just because it doesn't pander and kowtow to the thing that you and I enjoy better than the original in the way we would have liked...doesn't mean that they're not paying it lip service. And I suspect they partially want to keep it touched less for plenty of reasons other than mere preferential treatment towards their own material anyways. So, the wounded martyr, "The Exile deserved more!" act needs to stop because she didn't deserve anything to begin with. The same way that people complain about Revan in TOR and say he deserved better. And bare in mind that as I tell you this I'm speaking as someone who loves her as a positive, powerful female character in gaming media in general. And as someone who is replaying TSL currently again because they love it that much. But this vague notion of BioWare having to do something or "They really ought to do x thing...", is a joke. And a bad one. We've been hearing on these forums ever since the Dark Wars didn't get a timeline video. It was tiresome then and by now, it's just banal. It's done. It's canon. It happened. Let it go, Indiana. Ruh-roh raggie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Don't speak about your respect level for me like it's anything I care about or as if you're anyone of significance. At the end of the day, saying "I didn't want this to become a versus thread" while also accusing Karypshan or other writers of this or that act of injustice, etc, towards the sacred cow of TSL is nearly the definition of disingenuous. If you hate assumptions, I hate liars more, dear. Because regardless of what you might think, the references are there. The Exile is in the game. As said, just because it doesn't pander and kowtow to the thing that you and I enjoy better than the original in the way we would have liked doesn't mean that they're not paying it lip service. I suspect they partially want to keep it touched less for plenty of reasons other than mere preferential treatment towards their own material anyways. So, the wounded martyr, "The Exile deserved more!" act needs to stop because she didn't deserve anything to begin with. And bare in mind that as I tell you this I'm speaking as someone who loves her as a positive, powerful female character in gaming media in general. And as someone who is replaying TSL currently again because they love it that much. But this vague notion of BioWare having to do something or "They really ought to do x thing...", is a joke. And a bad one. We've been hearing it ever since the Dark Wars didn't get a timeline video. It was tiresome then and by now, it's just banal. It's done. It's canon. It happened. Let it go, Indiana. It's obvious that this isn't some mere reaction to something I stated, nor are you even attempting to ask me exactly why I made this thread and what for, you're clearly PO'd about something else, but let me give you some advice, vent it somewhere else, the keyboard warrior routine won't get you anywhere with me. I created this thread simply because BIOWare themselves including Drew, took it upon themselves to finish off all the loose ends and end the story of the KotOR franchise, they haven't done that, they didn't even portray Revan in the fashion that Karpyshyn himself suggested Revan should be, nor did they even attempt to close off the events following the Dark Wars and the secret albeit short campaign in the unknown regions against the Empire, they instead left a hell of a lot characters with no conclusion at all, even Canderous, Bastila and the like don't have any closure, they are just dropped off randomly with little or no explanation. Now if you had actually bothered to read the thread, that was what I was expressing, but of course the detractors came along and utterly changed the topic to 'KotOR II sux KotOR rox!' something I almost knew would inevitably happen, so I attempted to end such talk with the basic word 'opinion'. Then you came along with your holier-than-thou attitude and have messed the thread up even more than it was before. Oh and 'liar'? insults? really? I think you need to go catch some air. Edited August 24, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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