Alphasgimaone Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think some people need to take the time to play a few of the Asian games. That stuff there isn't P2W. It doesn't even scratch the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) Think you might have mis-understood my point, so I'll give you some examples from LOTRO 1) XP Boost Scroll e.g. 200% xp from monster kills for 1 hour. This item was not available in game, only through the store. However, the result of using the item was simply quicker leveling. Gaining XP and leveling was still available in game through normal quests, so the shop was not giving you anything exclusive. You could still level fine without the shop. It was convenience, not paying to win. 2) Deed Accelerators Again, another convenience item. Using it made your deeds go quicker for an hour, thus reducing the grind. 3) Horses / Cosmetic Outfits These bore no relation to your performance in game so are just fluff items. Not pay 2 win. 4) Content packs, expansion packs, new classes etc. If you wanted to level through the misty mountains, you either had to be a subscriber or you had the buy the content pack for MM. Basically, what I'm saying is that I'm fine with anything being in the store as long as it does not give the buyer an irreconcilable advantage over a normal subscriber. So, for example if the top tier of gear was only available through the store, and not available in game any other way, that would be pay 2 win, something a subscriber could not overcome through simple playtime. If they offer convenience items, thats fine, as whilst it may be frustrating I know I can overcome the advantage just by playing normally. now, of course, if bioware force us all down the F2P route and do away with subscriptions then I'm fine with pay 2 win. If you go down that route from the start then at least everyone is on a level playing field and knows what they are in for. I dont think its a good idea, or sustainable, but at least it would be even. However, if you're sticking with subscribers, a subscriber should get everything included with their subscription fee except expansions. I see what your saying.. I guess it comes down to what players percieve to be P2W things. Yes allowing players to gear up to the max from the shop is a no no for me.. what's the point of playing if you buy it all ... I can't see how a game can keep you interested if you can buy it all from the shop.. so yes your right no ubber gear in shop ..TICK SWTOR is one of the few online games (notice I dont use the term MMO ) where you have to imo work harder to not get too much XP as you go through the leveling process. XP is like water in this game with the constant peg-in hole respawn ideology so I see Boosts like you.. a convience for the power leveler who wants to rush thro to endgame, missing out as much as possible and supplimenting it with a boost pot.... A choice item (not something I would buy or ever see the need for but that's me).. TICK Stat boosts - now we get into grey areas... depends on how they work them. If like adrenals and stims that we get to uise in game and are lost on death then meeeh sop what.. if players a re stupid enough to pay coin for something that is already easily obtainable in game then all power to them and keep it coming.. more $ from those plkayers might mean more content for us ... but if they make those boost OP then yes P2W it can be and distorts the leveling playing field.. especially ina Pv P world.. though again in SWTOR itts so out of balance and screwed up it likely would even get noticed So what else could be P2W.. invincibility pots, 1000% HP increases, .. no thanks never! Now you have explained your posting a litle clearer I agree, all the general items that they might sell like gear, heal pots, weapons, stims, pets.. as long as they are in game things then yeah sure let them tempt the coin from just not anything that is in game that can muddy the playing fields beyond reason like commendations, endgame gear, legacy mods, etc etc.. if these things ever appear, then I will have to consider a permanent vacation. Edited August 22, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamion Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 If you want P2W, play LOTRO or RoM. Don't ruin this game for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I like pay to win games.. cause then I just leave and go play a real game with real players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The second they had a P2W item I am gone. I am barely here to begin with these days, keeping my sub open just to see what happens. same i just wait to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 buy away in that store, I would like to have more content, I could care less about this so called p2w, I bet some one would claim a non-stated fuzzy bunny hat was p2w item, there are about as many opinions about what p2w is as there is players and everyone thinks thier defination is the right one, I have seen some crazy things claimed to be pay to win.. Lets see what the store has when it launches, p2w , it's more perception that hard facts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinwitt Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It dimishes the accomplishments of those that achieved the reward via legitimate IN GAME means. Right now, for several million credits, I can buy all the mods/armorings/enhancements/barrels I need to get full iLevel 61 gear. If that costs to much, I can farm space missions to buy exotic crafting material boxes to get the gear made for me. And if that takes to much time, I can get carried through EC HM and NMP by a fully geared and skilled group and get my full set in a few hours at most. If gear is the accomplishment, its already been diminished. You are engaging in reductio ad absurdum. This doesn't merrit a response. First of all, reductio ad absurdum is a legitimate technique. That your idea, subscriptions as a test of loyalty, leads to such absurd conclusions is an argument against it. When I state that attitudes about buying success without effort not only bring down gaming but everything else in life to a state of mediocrity at best and a stinking dung heap at worste, I am not engaging in hyperbole. It merrits a discussion in this context because our secular progressive western world no longer values hard work or excellence. Everything from the media to western education systems to the state are screaming mediocrity and dependance rather than that of excellence and independance. This poisonouos mind set has insidiously crept into the collective gestalt in much the same way as puttting a frog in a pot of water and slowly turning up the heat. This cycle needs to be broken before the water boils. This striving for fairness is a ruse and a distraction. In a world where everyone is special, no one is. Paying to win is much in this mind set as to rewarding mediocrity instead of excellence. Paying to win is not a leveling or normalizing mechanism. Paying to win devalues all those that put in the time and effort to achieve the reward instead of "just buying it". I get where you are coming from. But you don't get where I am coming from. You see people buying gear in game and equate that with buying their way through life. I see people working hard in life and wanting to use the fruits of their labor to make the games they play more enjoyable. I am not advocating to make the game easier. I am not advocating to remove skill requirements. People that are bad at their class won't succeed in pve or pvp because they were able to buy gear. There are plenty of full Campaign geared people on my server that I don't raid with because they are terrible at their classes. Pay to win won't change any of that. It will just give people who can't put in the time because of external obligation a chance to keep up. It will also give a quantifiable value to that gear you've worked so hard for. You'll still need skill to get the titles from PvE and renown in PvP, and gear has always been just a mean towards those ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's pointless to play a P2W game.. I dont understand how it's pointless. Why compare yourself to others so much? Unless you are one of those people that gets upset because you can't pwn noobs in PvP when they pay into a game more that you. Me? I play to have fun, I don't PvP so whatever others are doing, it doesn't affect my play sphere so I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Well, I think technically speaking paying a sub is paying to win, since it's obvious certain for pay only restrictions will be implemented...and I think that's fine. I also think certain game aids for sale are fine for F2P. IMO just those items that would effect you personally and not others around you gameplay wise. PVP should never be pay to win IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxidenstore Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 No I Am Not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratior Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 You guys do realize that GW2 is starting out P2P/F2P and has the making of a true blue P2W game already right? Lol The virtue of GW2 is that it's almost solely a PvP game made for PvPers. However, that's where the virtue ends. Yes I realise these virtues of GW2. These are some of the the reasons why I have unsubbed from SWTOR and will be playing GW2. (I am the OP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharleyDanger Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Well, if a guy from EA said it, it must be true. EA, after all, is a company renowned for its honesty, integrity, and its relentless commitment to playing fair with the customer. Never in its history has it indulged in a shameless cash grab to the detriment of its own or someone else's IP, and it has always done its utmost to support and expand its MMO lineup through the most player-friendly means available. If it came from a guy on an internet forum it must not be a sarcastic comment. Internet forum guys, after all, are renowned for their clear cut honest opinions with no sarcasm at all. Never in the history has internet forum guys indulged in shameless sarcasm to the detriment of normal people looking for intelligent back and forth on a subject, and they have always done their utmost to support and expand the conversation so as not to come across as an angry middle schooler. Anyway lol, what makes you think P2W is more profitable than the freemium model is the case of SWTOR? I do not think anyone would disagree that EA is all about the dollar dollar bills. Yet what is your reasoning behind saying P2W will make EA more money than freemium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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