OPEN WORLD PVP, how to implement it ATM

[DarthAgonny]

Clearly this game lacks of OWPVP, planets are huge and quest for imps and republic barely exist within the same area.

 

I think it is impossible for Bioware to implement open world pvp on such planets they are perfect for PVE and that's how they should remain, however, heres a possible solution to implement this system.

 

 

Create a new planet for PVP and Boss Hunt: Yes, people would say, don't we have enough planets already? indeed, but we lack of a planet that makes people want to go back everyday for a good reason (let's be honest, dailies rewards are not that good and farming money its pretty much boring), so instead of dailies, let's make a OPEN WORLD BOSS PLANET.

 

Make a small planet (size of tython/korriban) make it like a donut, in the middle a few bosses will respawn every...lets say, 8 hours, and some other 2 or 3 in random places, plus, give us ranked warzone comms for every imp/rep we kill (lets say 1-5 comms if you are in a party or soloeing). The thing here is, these bosses must have a very low drop rate, lets say 10% and the item they drop has to be WORTH IT, like 20% better than any raid item at least (make weapons/relics/trinkets not armor that's for raids) so people will start to lurk everyday that place and encourage pvp, it will be really fun .

 

Feedback is welcome, i have seen this in another game and it was, IMO, the best pvp i had in my whole life.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

PS: Oh and for the love of God do not make it icy, make it a savanah or a jungle, we all love barrens and STV .

Edited August 17, 2012 by DarthAgonny

[Brool]

PS: Oh and for the love of God do not make it icy, make it a savanah or a jungle, we all love barrens and STV .

 

Ill agree with no more ice, however we do not all love barrens or STV.

[Kailthir]

The old-outdated game engine cannot support it. This is why Illum failed.

 

There is no way they can impliment this to work. Not unless they switched out the game engine for one not 8-10 yrs old... Then, what rewrite all the code... wait for another 6 yrs. You get the point.

 

They can only optomise it so much. it's like taking a 10 year old computer and trying to get everything you can out of the 486 with windows 95. Tweaks will only get you so far. You need new hardware and software.

[CKNORTH]

The old-outdated game engine cannot support it. This is why Illum failed.

 

There is no way they can impliment this to work. Not unless they switched out the game engine for one not 8-10 yrs old... Then, what rewrite all the code... wait for another 6 yrs. You get the point.

 

They can only optomise it so much. it's like taking a 10 year old computer and trying to get everything you can out of the 486 with windows 95. Tweaks will only get you so far. You need new hardware and software.

 

Question though, what if the combined all the extra servers they have floating around to support the load, wouldn't that work?

[Kailthir]

Question though, what if the combined all the extra servers they have floating around to support the load, wouldn't that work?

 

As far as I understand it.... No.

 

The game engine can only support so much information at one time... IE rendering the planet and all the structures and NPC's etc and a few hundred players (whatever the number is). That is why even with only 3/4 of a load per plant the games lags alot. It's the engine. A Ford Model T can only put out so much HP no matter how much you tweak the engine. If you want more you have to replace it.

[Nyoro]

Black hole is a good example of world PvP done right, particularly on PvP servers. People won't do world PvP if they either have to flag for PvP without good reason or if they have to travel great distances to get to the action. The trick is to make a smallish quest hub and put PvE quests in there so that people gravitate towards it, supplement that with PvP dailies are there's a good reason for people to get together and fight the opposition.

 

Getting world PvP to happen on the other planets is particularly difficult since the players have to travel for a good while to get to the opponents territory and even then PvP isn't guaranteed.

 

Personally I would love to see a new daily area on Tatooine with PvP objectives scattered.

[CKNORTH]

As far as I understand it.... No.

 

The game engine can only support so much information at one time... IE rendering the planet and all the structures and NPC's etc and a few hundred players (whatever the number is). That is why even with only 3/4 of a load per plant the games lags alot. It's the engine. A Ford Model T can only put out so much HP no matter how much you tweak the engine. If you want more you have to replace it.

 

Well look at fleet sometimes well over 225 people with npc's in a contained area what's the difference if we're all swinging our light sabers?

[Shingara]

The best way to sort out world pvp is to make time jump planets, what i mean by that is to have the different timelines on specific planets like taris for example to work like a bonus area for the other faction whos timeline the current story is not on, have some quests that go into these zones to help your factions npcs and force players of opposite factions into direct conflict zones.

 

Another is quesh, make a junction between the 2 sides, put some missions for each side on the others side of the map, or even put in something that give a boost to the side that controls it whilst on quesh.

 

But at the end of the day open world pvp is driven by the players, not by developers. If people want open world pvp they will find it. And when people want to exploit world pvp and ruin it for everyone else we have seen that too with illum.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Shingara

[Kailthir]

Black hole is a good example of world PvP done right, particularly on PvP servers. People won't do world PvP if they either have to flag for PvP without good reason or if they have to travel great distances to get to the action. The trick is to make a smallish quest hub and put PvE quests in there so that people gravitate towards it, supplement that with PvP dailies are there's a good reason for people to get together and fight the opposition.

 

Getting world PvP to happen on the other planets is particularly difficult since the players have to travel for a good while to get to the opponents territory and even then PvP isn't guaranteed.

 

Personally I would love to see a new daily area on Tatooine with PvP objectives scattered.

 

Personally I hate instanced PvP. It feels so... forced... or artificial. Questing and having to be smart about it cause you may get ganked adds to the imersion and fun. To all of the sudden have a battle on alderaan/tat/etc out of nowhere is exiciting.

 

Just happening upon a force and trying to wipe them out... calling your friends up... "dude, the Imps are hitting outpost # 24, lets meet up by the bridge and take them out from behind. Get them in a crossfire." this is loads of fun.. Not huttball or WZ. So borring.

[CKNORTH]

Personally I hate instanced PvP. It feels so... forced... or artificial. Questing and having to be smart about it cause you may get ganked adds to the imersion and fun. To all of the sudden have a battle on alderaan/tat/etc out of nowhere is exiciting.

 

Just happening upon a force and trying to wipe them out... calling your friends up... "dude, the Imps are hitting outpost # 24, lets meet up by the bridge and take them out from behind. Get them in a crossfire." this is loads of fun.. Not huttball or WZ. So borring.

 

I actually think this will happen if they merged the servers enough to layer the maps correctly give or take each map sits around 200 people, that's quite a lot of people to pvp with on one planet on the open world pvp planets of corse. If the found ways to implimemted space missions to taking over planets spacing docks for controll well that's another can of worms Lol

Edited August 17, 2012 by CKNORTH

[Kailthir]

To reply to the post about the fleet and so many people on it etc...

 

Yes there are usually 100-200 people on it but ther is alot of things also not happening... npc moving around and or being scripted to do things when something triggers it.. IE agro radius and fireing back. Also you don't have alot of animations going on on fleet as compaired on a planet. All this is information that must be sorted out by the game engine.

 

This is one of the reasons most things are instanced. To cut down on the load and lag. Not to mention I think they fully knew they were going F2P from the git go. All the gated places/instances and choak points. Seems too many for it to be coincidence.

 

Problem with player controlled content is... there is so very few reasons to have WPvP... Not enough cross faction Zones. And the ones we do have have a huge dead mans area separating them. They need to make quests in each others territory. This would purpertrate WPvP player driven things

[CenturioXIV]

Ill agree with no more ice, however we do not all love barrens or STV.

 

you'll be glad to know there is more snow in the new Ancient Hypergates WZ (seen @Gamescom)

[CKNORTH]

To reply to the post about the fleet and so many people on it etc...

 

Yes there are usually 100-200 people on it but ther is alot of things also not happening... npc moving around and or being scripted to do things when something triggers it.. IE agro radius and fireing back. Also you don't have alot of animations going on on fleet as compaired on a planet. All this is information that must be sorted out by the game engine.

 

This is one of the reasons most things are instanced. To cut down on the load and lag. Not to mention I think they fully knew they were going F2P from the git go. All the gated places/instances and choak points. Seems too many for it to be coincidence.

 

Problem with player controlled content is... there is so very few reasons to have WPvP... Not enough cross faction Zones. And the ones we do have have a huge dead mans area separating them. They need to make quests in each others territory. This would purpertrate WPvP player driven things

 

Thing is not everyone is going to want to be forced to quest in aposing sides areas, all I'm saying as it stands now with the limited wz's for f2p people all the open world areas currently in the game now will explode with the free to play people hitting level cap, there going to want to do something once they hit fifty. So I'm betting that the open world pvp will be it, I just hope Bioware is prepared for it. Lol

[kevlarto]

A pvp planet would be nice nut we need a reason to pvp other than the silliy gear grind, we need factional baseed pvp like DAOC something that benifits your faction a real reason to go pvp, along with the fun factor, maybe some bases to hold.

I really think that the dev team is missing the point here in TOR, more flash points, more warzones, and op's is not going to get people to stay, in fact it seems like people are leaving because there is just to much of the same thing every game has, maybe someday, the ligh will go off and they will start to work on some diveres game play that gives us options other than the standard play model.

 

I see allot of posts that talk about the Hero engine will not handle massive battles, but I never see any data to prove that, I have been to the Hero website read about the engine a bit.. I just would like to know is how do you know the engine will not handle it, I don't want your opinion I want hard technical data, in other words facts,that shows it.. I think the new Elder Scrolls mmo is using the Hero Engine as well. I dunno if the Engine is bad if Biowar ewas sold crap by a smooth talking sales person, or what really, I don't think anyone in these forums knows either.

[Roerie]

Sadly OWPvP is doomed to failed in this game, not because of the game engine, not because of the class balance and not because a wookie said so.

 

OWPvP is bound to fail because this game is built around 2 faction fighting each other. So the Faction imbalance will always ruin the OWPvP.

 

That is why most of the really successfull OWPvP game (such as DAOC for exemple) was built around 3 faction model. So if 1 faction get fotm or have more player then the other, it will balance out.

 

To have a perfectly (or close to it) balance in the number of PvPer both faction have, you have to be really lucky. So you will end up seeing ppl whine that yea they want to kill bosses for loot but they cant get more then 100 imps (or reps) to pvp while the other side double the ammount.

 

Thats the big factor to OWPvP.

 

Some ppl will then say then cap it too like 100 players at any time so yea some side wil have an advantage on off peak hour but when ppl play the most it will be glorious 100v100 on a landscape big enough to simulate Open World but then you will have ppl ************ that they pay the same ammount of everyone so they should not be left out.

 

If they do a cross-server PvP with that idea you might end up with enough player pool to make 2-3 instances of that big planet but again the side with the most PvPer will end up dominating one of them just by shear numbers.

 

So yea, you want successfull open world pvp, you need more then 2 factions to balance it out number wise.

 

This game can defenetly use a 15-20 ppl WZ that is bigger tho and this WZ could have no timer to it, a game to just simply go forever and you zone into it, try to capture fortress or key point on a medium size map (let say 3-4 time the size of actual wz).

[CKNORTH]

Sadly OWPvP is doomed to failed in this game, not because of the game engine, not because of the class balance and not because a wookie said so.

 

OWPvP is bound to fail because this game is built around 2 faction fighting each other. So the Faction imbalance will always ruin the OWPvP.

 

That is why most of the really successfull OWPvP game (such as DAOC for exemple) was built around 3 faction model. So if 1 faction get fotm or have more player then the other, it will balance out.

 

To have a perfectly (or close to it) balance in the number of PvPer both faction have, you have to be really lucky. So you will end up seeing ppl whine that yea they want to kill bosses for loot but they cant get more then 100 imps (or reps) to pvp while the other side double the ammount.

 

Thats the big factor to OWPvP.

 

Some ppl will then say then cap it too like 100 players at any time so yea some side wil have an advantage on off peak hour but when ppl play the most it will be glorious 100v100 on a landscape big enough to simulate Open World but then you will have ppl ************ that they pay the same ammount of everyone so they should not be left out.

 

If they do a cross-server PvP with that idea you might end up with enough player pool to make 2-3 instances of that big planet but again the side with the most PvPer will end up dominating one of them just by shear numbers.

 

So yea, you want successfull open world pvp, you need more then 2 factions to balance it out number wise.

 

This game can defenetly use a 15-20 ppl WZ that is bigger tho and this WZ could have no timer to it, a game to just simply go forever and you zone into it, try to capture fortress or key point on a medium size map (let say 3-4 time the size of actual wz).

 

I'm pretty sure OWPvP is FFA or else why the hell did a republic group kill my republic raid while I was on a WB during the rakghoul event? And the we slaughtered them?

[Goretzu]

Clearly this game lacks of OWPVP, planets are huge and quest for imps and republic barely exist within the same area.

 

I think it is impossible for Bioware to implement open world pvp on such planets they are perfect for PVE and that's how they should remain, however, heres a possible solution to implement this system.

 

 

Create a new planet for PVP and Boss Hunt: Yes, people would say, don't we have enough planets already? indeed, but we lack of a planet that makes people want to go back everyday for a good reason (let's be honest, dailies rewards are not that good and farming money its pretty much boring), so instead of dailies, let's make a OPEN WORLD BOSS PLANET.

 

Make a small planet (size of tython/korriban) make it like a donut, in the middle a few bosses will respawn every...lets say, 8 hours, and some other 2 or 3 in random places, plus, give us ranked warzone comms for every imp/rep we kill (lets say 1-5 comms if you are in a party or soloeing). The thing here is, these bosses must have a very low drop rate, lets say 10% and the item they drop has to be WORTH IT, like 20% better than any raid item at least (make weapons/relics/trinkets not armor that's for raids) so people will start to lurk everyday that place and encourage pvp, it will be really fun .

 

Feedback is welcome, i have seen this in another game and it was, IMO, the best pvp i had in my whole life.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

PS: Oh and for the love of God do not make it icy, make it a savanah or a jungle, we all love barrens and STV .

 

 

 

 

They just need to copy one of the MANY Warhammer Online RvR basins. Same rules, use the 1.3.6 population balance system.

 

Done and dusted.

[DarthAgonny]

I need an opinion about the WORLD BOSSES, do you think its a good incentive? i mean, lets say they drop crazy trinkets or weapons with 20% extra pvp/pve damage? but with 10% or less drop chance(that way people will be 24/7) there. Plus have a respawn time of 8 hours so people will camp them.

 

To encourage PVP every kill must give you 1-5 RkdComms depending if you are solopvp or with a party, that way people won't be grinding warzones and get this planet to work.

 

If you die, you lose 20 RkdWz that way people will try their best (trust me!!)

REMEMBER CURRENTLY THERE IS NO REWARD FOR OWPVP

and that means no incentives to do it, specially since planets are huge and its hard to find an enemy.

 

BTW, the planet must be more or less like tython, big enough not to get a 200 people on the same place, PLUS, respawn spots (imp/republic base) must have many guards so the other team wont simply slaughter them and CAMP the other team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 17, 2012 by DarthAgonny

[Acorns_Malfurion]

Killing the world bosses would give some kind of server buff. How does that sound?

 

Perhaps....

 

*Killing bosses = attunement item that'll trigger something in Terror From Beyond.

 

*Killing a boss = buff to better defend you from MAIN BOSS's super OP'ness

 

*Killing the MAIN boss = valor/comm/expertise buff

 

 

How about some ideas for the PvP aspects for the PvP planet?

 

*Holding a certain point for X amount of time = buku server buff for your faction!

 

*Assaulting an area successfully = stealing that server buff!

 

*A special area that has a special datacron?

Edited August 17, 2012 by Acorns_Malfurion

[JamieKirby]

Personally, as long as it doesn't affect my pve gaming, i don't care if there is a open world pvp or not, if it forces me into it, then i do NOT want it in the game at all.

 

Not sure why anyone would want open world pvp in the first place, the whole pvp concept is so primitive, why people would need to compete with other players to get a sense of achievement, i will never understand.

[Roerie]

Personally, as long as it doesn't affect my pve gaming, i don't care if there is a open world pvp or not, if it forces me into it, then i do NOT want it in the game at all.

 

Not sure why anyone would want open world pvp in the first place, the whole pvp concept is so primitive, why people would need to compete with other players to get a sense of achievement, i will never understand.

 

Because killing scripted encounter that have no difficulty to it, doing dailys and farming money to not give us a sense of acheivement ?

 

And yea I killed all the bosses on every difficulty.

 

And looking at the bold part, you must find the Olympic game and other sport tournament pretty boring and useless dont you ?

 

Nice Troll attempt tho ! will give it a 7/10

Edited August 17, 2012 by Roerie

[HoloTweed]

The best way to sort out world pvp is to make time jump planets, what i mean by that is to have the different timelines on specific planets like taris for example to work like a bonus area for the other faction whos timeline the current story is not on, have some quests that go into these zones to help your factions npcs and force players of opposite factions into direct conflict zones.

 

I think I have something along similar lines in mind...

 

A SECOND VERSION OF (MOST) PLANETS.

 

Say, a post-50 version of each of the planets after the story events of levels 1 - 50. The art and geometry and buildings and basic coding are already there. If they create Open World PvP version of the same planets that already exist, and include capture points, npc recruitment and other pvp tropes, they could launch new battlefield worlds without having to start from scratch or invalidating any of the story gameplay that has come before.

 

Thoughts on this? (I'm sure I missed SOMETHING.) I'd love for these planets to be open to pre-50's, but the story specifics already in place plus the huge imbalance created by Expertise would make this pretty difficult...

[CKNORTH]

I think I have something along similar lines in mind...

 

A SECOND VERSION OF (MOST) PLANETS.

 

Say, a post-50 version of each of the planets after the story events of levels 1 - 50. The art and geometry and buildings and basic coding are already there. If they create Open World PvP version of the same planets that already exist, and include capture points, npc recruitment and other pvp tropes, they could launch new battlefield worlds without having to start from scratch or invalidating any of the story gameplay that has come before.

 

Thoughts on this? (I'm sure I missed SOMETHING.) I'd love for these planets to be open to pre-50's, but the story specifics already in place plus the huge imbalance created by Expertise would make this pretty difficult...

 

 

Why not just add a map feature to be in a pvp map of the world that you QT too like other map layers? But of corse if you go to the pvp map be ready for what ever is thrown at you Lol!

 

Edit: made a suggestion in the suggestion forums on pvp map layering if anyone wishes to comment, thanks!

Edited August 17, 2012 by CKNORTH

[DarthAgonny]

Boss respawns, valuable drops and small linear places should be the best option for pvp areas, and the fact that you get rankd wzs comms but also lose them if you die should encourage pvp.

[grandmthethird]

come to my server "nightmare lands"

 

join the nightmare lands face book group, there is 2 of them that i know of

 

they always orginize open world PVP events