Clearing up the Force.

[Tellenn]

Hope is transitory and takes you out of the present which is bad for the connection to the force.

Love, depending on what kind, infers a sense of heightened important on someone or something. Which is a dangerous road as we caw what Anarkin was willing to sacrifice for it. To be truly light side is to have love for life, the universe, the force as one and not separate beings. It just Eastern philosophies really.

 

It all comes down to understanding there is only the force. Do not separate things from that. That unbalances and removes from the completeness of the force and that leads to the dark side.

 

If you want to understand the ideals behind the force just become a Buddhist like me. Much of the beliefs are similar.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Tellenn

[Aurbere]

So here's section's 6 and 7

 

Section 06: Emotions and Jedi

Emotions have a heavy impact on a Force user, Jedi or Sith. Jedi believe that emotions should be suppresed, while Sith believe that using your emotions, especially hate and anger, to enhance their Force abilities. Now saying that Jedi have no emotions is wrong. Jedi have emotions; emotions like hope and compassion. Powerful emotions like love and hate are belived to lead to the Dark Side. The more wise Masters look farther in the future to see it's impact. Love can lead to several emotions. These emotions vary based on circumstances, but they include: jealousy, hate, fear, and anger. Then these emotions can pull you into the Dark Side. Jealousy over a loved one can lead to hate, hate then leads to anger, and then anger leads you to the Dark Side. But where is fear? Fear is most evident in Anakin's story. Fear over the loss of a loved one forces you into seeking Force techniques that will lead to the Dark Side. The fall of Anakin Skywalker is the a story that provides the greatest warning against certain powerful emotions. But that isn't to say that these emotions are the sole cause of his fall. His choices, and the choices of any Jedi, lead to his fall. So it is clear that Jedi do not completely outlaw emotion, it is powerful emotions that they warn against. Emotions that cloud judgment and risk lives.

 

Section 07: Emotions and the Sith

Sith have a different view of emotions. Sith view emotions as a way to augment their power. But there is danger in thinking like this. Emotions like pride and love can make a Sith make mistakes. Pride especially. This is evident in Obi-Wan's duel with Darth Maul and Luke's battle with Vader and Palpatine. Pride and overconfidence left Maul open to a surprise attack by Kenobi and Palpatine's pride and overconfidence left him oblivious to Vader sneaking up behind him and tossing him down a very long shaft.

But the Sith do gain power from their emotions, because the Dark Side is driven by hateful emotions. One reason why Sith are capable of beating Jedi is their anger and hatred knocking the Jedi off balance upon their first experience with it. Anger comes off of Sith like heat radiates from lava. This can knock a Jedi off balance, allowing the Sith to gain the upper hand until the Jedi can refocus. Once a Jedi is focused, they can use their peaceful emotions to bring the duel in their favor. As a Sith gets more and more angry, they begin to make mistakes. Mistakes that cause their downfall. It is clear that the Sith use emotions to enhance themselves, but it also leads to mistakes if they do not control themselves.

 

More sections to come. I should point out that none of these sections are based off of wiki readings. Any information here is purely from my personal knowledge of The Force.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Aurbere

[JacenHallis]

Section 02: Taking sides

There are no sides to the Force. It is believed that their is a Light Side and a Dark Side. This notion is false. The Force is purely Light Side. Harmony, peace, and tranquility are at the core of the Force, something Yoda attempted to achieve during his lifetime. The Dark Side seeks conflict, sending the Force out of balance(more on that later). Conflict disturbs the natural harmony of the galaxy and The Force. The Dark Side is sort of like the Anti-Force. The reason it is called Dark Side, I don't know, but Dark Side sounds cooler than Anti-Force. The Dark Side is completely separate from The Force.

I used to believe this. George even said as much at one time. But, since then, he's also said that both sides do exist in the Force.

 

The EU has examples of how George's idea of balance makes for a great G-canon story, but makes no sense in the greater scheme of things. The best example I can think of is Tython itself.

 

Tython has a strange relationship to the Force. Too much Light or too much Dark, and the planet itself reacts to the shift. In the comics, the crash and destruction of a ship full of frightened beings and the introduction of a Force hound to the world resulted in storms that were rooted not in normal weather, but the Dark Side. The Je'daii witnessed this kind of thing first hand often, and they strived to maintain a balance between Light and Dark. The planet was an example of what could happen inside a single being when too much of one side took over. They even went to the extreme of ostracisizng people to the moons of Tython when they were too unbalanced to remain with the Order at large.

 

This philosophy would, of course, die off with the Force Wars, when Light supporters and Dark supporters waged war on Tython. But it was that way for centuries, maybe even millennia. After the Schisms, there remained two main philosphies regarding the Force: the Jedi and the Sith. These two philosophies would remain the dominant thinking regarding the Force into the Legacy Era (which is the latest recorded bit of Star Wars timeline). However, other philosophies took hold on a smaller scale, and they were just as valid. The White Current was one major example in the books.

Edited August 13, 2012 by JacenHallis

[Acrolepsia]

Okay. I dont have time to read all the posts after the OP. Its an interesting discussion. I will certainly return here later.

 

But I just wanted to throw this in:

 

Members of the Je'daii Order, from Masters to Padawans, were encouraged to follow a set of guidelines, including self-discipline, responsibility, and service which were designed to keep a Je'daii in balance with the Force. This reminder to remain in balance between light and darkness was put forth in a mantra known as the Je'daii Code:

 

"''There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.

There is no fear; there is power.

I am the heart of the Force.

I am the revealing fire of light.

I am the mystery of darkness

In balance with chaos and harmony,

Immortal in the Force.''"

 

The Je'daii order later split due to internal disagreements. People more inclined to the 'light side' and 'dark side' went up to arms, obviously.

 

It's part of an ongoing hq series, Dawn of the Jedi

 

/Edit

Read through the entirety of posts. People have mentioned the Je'daai before. Anyhow.. Thats an exemple of people embracing the entirely of the force.

 

If theres a Will why does it submit to 'dark' users? I think its more likely that the force has a dual nature. After all, duality is pretty much universal.

 

On a slight side note:

A thought about the 'chosen one' propecy: I think it was completed when anakin turned dark. Think about it, Sith pretty much erradicated, under the rule of two, hidden. Anakin turns, Palpatine extermines most of the Jedi, who goes hiding. In the end, all that was left of the Jedi was Yoda, Obi and later Luke. It forced the 'rule of two' on both sides..

Edited August 13, 2012 by Acrolepsia

[Aurbere]

I used to believe this. George even said as much at one time. But, since then, he's also said that both sides do exist in the Force.

 

The EU has examples of how George's idea of balance makes for a great G-canon story, but makes no sense in the greater scheme of things. The best example I can think of is Tython itself.

 

Tython has a strange relationship to the Force. Too much Light or too much Dark, and the planet itself reacts to the shift. In the comics, the crash and destruction of a ship full of frightened beings and the introduction of a Force hound to the world resulted in storms that were rooted not in normal weather, but the Dark Side. The Je'daii witnessed this kind of thing first hand often, and they strived to maintain a balance between Light and Dark. The planet was an example of what could happen inside a single being when too much of one side took over. They even went to the extreme of ostracisizng people to the moons of Tython when they were too unbalanced to remain with the Order at large.

 

This philosophy would, of course, die off with the Force Wars, when Light supporters and Dark supporters waged war on Tython. But it was that way for centuries, maybe even millennia. After the Schisms, there remained two main philosphies regarding the Force: the Jedi and the Sith. These two philosophies would remain the dominant thinking regarding the Force into the Legacy Era (which is the latest recorded bit of Star Wars timeline). However, other philosophies took hold on a smaller scale, and they were just as valid. The White Current was one major example in the books.

 

One thing you must know is that the Je'daii had a basic understanding of the Force. The Force has been brought into light to a much greater extent during the PT era and post-ROTJ era. While much of the Force remains shrouded in mystery, Master Yoda was a pioneer in the fact that he was able to learn much about the Force, greatly expanding the knowledge that the PT order had. Your evidence of Tythons natural shift only serves to prove that Tython is naturally light, like the Force, and when the Dark Side thrived on it, the Je'daii were forced to remove to restore the planets balance. The Force is naturally light and the Dark Side is an outside corruption that throws the natural order of things out of balance.

[Aurbere]

Okay. I dont have time to read all the posts after the OP. Its an interesting discussion. I will certainly return here later.

 

But I just wanted to throw this in:

 

Members of the Je'daii Order, from Masters to Padawans, were encouraged to follow a set of guidelines, including self-discipline, responsibility, and service which were designed to keep a Je'daii in balance with the Force. This reminder to remain in balance between light and darkness was put forth in a mantra known as the Je'daii Code:

 

"''There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.

There is no fear; there is power.

I am the heart of the Force.

I am the revealing fire of light.

I am the mystery of darkness

In balance with chaos and harmony,

Immortal in the Force.''"

 

The Je'daii order later split due to internal disagreements. People more inclined to the 'light side' and 'dark side' went up to arms, obviously.

 

It's part of an ongoing hq series, Dawn of the Jedi

 

/Edit

Read through the entirety of posts. People have mentioned the Je'daai before. Anyhow.. Thats an exemple of people embracing the entirely of the force.

 

If theres a Will why does it submit to 'dark' users? I think its more likely that the force has a dual nature. After all, duality is pretty much universal.

 

On a slight side note:

A thought about the 'chosen one' propecy: I think it was completed when anakin turned dark. Think about it, Sith pretty much erradicated, under the rule of two, hidden. Anakin turns, Palpatine extermines most of the Jedi, who goes hiding. In the end, all that was left of the Jedi was Yoda, Obi and later Luke. It forced the 'rule of two' on both sides..

 

Again, the knowledge the Je'daii possessed was basic. As the Jedi and Sith expanded so to did their knowledge of the Force. The Force is only Light. The natural order of the galaxy is peace and tranquility. The followers of the Dark Side have always waged war, throwing that peace and the Force out of balance.

 

As to the Chosen One prophecy. The prophecy is to bring balance to the Force. The rule of two was meant to increase the power of the Sith and destroy all of the Jedi. Palpatine's mere presence sent the Force out of balance. When Palpatine took power the Dark Side had almost completely triumphed. Balance can only be achieved when the Dark Side has been eradicated. While I understand your argument, we cannot look at the Force as an indivdual. The Force is perfect. No mistakes, unless they are intentional. Anakin had to fall to the Dark Side, it was apart of his spiritual journey. Sometimes you must fall in order to fly. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Aurbere]

Where's Rayla and Walsh when you need them? Can't hold the canon fort down on my own here.

[JacenHallis]

While much of the Force remains shrouded in mystery, Master Yoda was a pioneer in the fact that he was able to learn much about the Force, greatly expanding the knowledge that the PT order had.

Yoda's musings about the nature of the Force were colored by his status as a Jedi. As I stated, the Jedi are only one philosophy regarding the nature of the Force. There are many others, and the Jedi Order is not "correct" anymore than the Fallanassi, Zeison Sha, Baran Do, Voss Mystics or the Aing-Tii are "correct."

Your evidence of Tythons natural shift only serves to prove that Tython is naturally light, like the Force, and when the Dark Side thrived on it, the Je'daii were forced to remove to restore the planets balance. The Force is naturally light and the Dark Side is an outside corruption that throws the natural order of things out of balance.

No, it's not. It's an incomplete example. We don't know what happens when the balance shifts to the light. Perhaps plants grow supernaturally fast and destroy man-made structures. Perhaps the dead rise from the grave as the healing powers of the Light side infuse into remains of past Je'daii. We don't know because it hasn't been in the comic book. Yet. We just know that it's not good.

[Aurbere]

Yoda's musings about the nature of the Force were colored by his status as a Jedi. As I stated, the Jedi are only one philosophy regarding the nature of the Force. There are many others, and the Jedi Order is not "correct" anymore than the Fallanassi, Zeison Sha, Baran Do, Voss Mystics or the Aing-Tii are "correct."

 

No, it's not. It's an incomplete example. We don't know what happens when the balance shifts to the light. Perhaps plants grow supernaturally fast and destroy man-made structures. Perhaps the dead rise from the grave as the healing powers of the Light side infuse into remains of past Je'daii. We don't know because it hasn't been in the comic book. Yet. We just know that it's not good.

 

What is your opinion on the sides of the Force, then? As it stands the Force seeks to keep the natural flow of the galaxy. Which is peace and tranquility. Conflict, which is brought by the Dark Side, disturbs the peace of the galaxy and throws the Force out of balance. This clearly shows that the Force does not have a Dark Side. Because nothing natural comes from the Dark Side, and the Force is natural.

[JacenHallis]

What is your opinion on the sides of the Force, then?

I really don't have a personal opinion of the Force, as (apologies to the real-life Jedi people that might be here), I don't believe it exists.

 

My philosophy regarding the Force depends highly on the character I'm playing at the time. My favorite is found in my forum signature. I like the first Jedi Code before it was co-opted and used by the Jedi to oppress their own people. Where the Jedi after Odan-Urr deny the existence of emotion, ignorance, passion, chaos and death, the original Jedi embraced them, and they found peace in emotion, knowledge in ignorance, serenity in passion, harmony in chaos and the Force in death.

 

As far as how the Force would really work if it existed, I have no idea. I just know that there are too many exceptions to the rule in the fiction to believe that the Jedi are without question the "correct" philosophy regarding the Force.

[Aurbere]

I really don't have a personal opinion of the Force, as (apologies to the real-life Jedi people that might be here), I don't believe it exists.

 

My philosophy regarding the Force depends highly on the character I'm playing at the time. My favorite is found in my forum signature. I like the first Jedi Code before it was co-opted and used by the Jedi to oppress their own people. Where the Jedi after Odan-Urr deny the existence of emotion, ignorance, passion, chaos and death, the original Jedi embraced them, and they found peace in emotion, knowledge in ignorance, serenity in passion, harmony in chaos and the Force in death.

 

As far as how the Force would really work if it existed, I have no idea. I just know that there are too many exceptions to the rule in the fiction to believe that the Jedi are without question the "correct" philosophy regarding the Force.

 

Well Jedi aren't "correct", but they have the right idea of the Force. They believe that you shouldn't have emotions, which is wrong. The NJO has a better idea of emotions and the Force.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Aurbere

[Acrolepsia]

Again, the knowledge the Je'daii possessed was basic. As the Jedi and Sith expanded so to did their knowledge of the Force. The Force is only Light. The natural order of the galaxy is peace and tranquility. The followers of the Dark Side have always waged war, throwing that peace and the Force out of balance.

(....)

While I understand your argument, we cannot look at the Force as an indivdual. The Force is perfect. No mistakes, unless they are intentional. Anakin had to fall to the Dark Side, it was apart of his spiritual journey. Sometimes you must fall in order to fly. Do you get what I'm saying?

 

First off: Yes, I do understand your point.

But the thing is the force being 'perfect', in my opnion, entails that the whole of it has some sort of duality. It is everything, peace and chaos. On another aspect it's both passive and active. Jedis for instance are as much tools of the force as they are users/controlers of it (You could argue that this control is another aspec of the force 'guiding', I get it. But wheres freewill in that equation?)

 

And Im not saying it has individuality nor a conciousness. It simply is - and that is (in) everything

 

As for dark siders: They get power hungry, trying to tame the force as it were for their own (and usually disastrous ends).

What if it is all part of the balancing? How can one appreciate peace if hardships and war are never experienced?

 

Secound point: You make it sound like only dark siderds, Siths, disrupt the 'balance', the peace, of the galaxy. Surely, non force sensitive stirred wars and chaos across if not the entire known, at least sectors of the galaxy. My memory fails me at the moment but I suppose hutt cartels could fall into that category.

 

And as you said: Anakin had to fall to the dark side as part of his spiritual journey. The destruction caused by it, the countless deaths, just for one individual spiritual ascention? Seems far fetched. Perhaps the galaxy needed a new order. Perhaps not Palpatine's. Maybe the empire was simply the initial transition towards a new 'order'.

 

What is your opinion on the sides of the Force, then? As it stands the Force seeks to keep the natural flow of the galaxy. Which is peace and tranquility. Conflict, which is brought by the Dark Side, disturbs the peace of the galaxy and throws the Force out of balance. This clearly shows that the Force does not have a Dark Side. Because nothing natural comes from the Dark Side, and the Force is natural.

 

Conflic IS natural. It happens every day. Not exclusively started by force sensitives. SW world - or should I say galaxy - isnt a perfect utopia. Its a mirror of our own world.

To summarize: What Im trying to say is this: 'good' and 'evil' are both oposites sides of the same coin. They cannot exist without each other. Their very definitions are difficult to make, and is usually done by comparing one to another.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Acrolepsia

[ProfessorWalsh]

First off: Yes, I do understand your point.

But the thing is the force being 'perfect', in my opnion, entails that the whole of it has some sort of duality. It is everything, peace and chaos. On another aspect it's both passive and active. Jedis for instance are as much tools of the force as they are users/controlers of it (You could argue that this control is another aspec of the force 'guiding', I get it. But wheres freewill in that equation?)

 

... By the Force I hate when people try to bring the Jee'dai up.

 

Okay... Here it is... Canonically.

 

In Power of the Jedi it specifically said that the Jedi Order has the most correct view of the Force. This means in the places where the Jee'dai try to contradict the Jedi the Jee'dai are simply wrong.

 

The Jee'dai completely misunderstood certain aspects of the Force. They, for example, thought that you had to keep a balance of Light and Dark or the planet of Tython would explode. The fact that there are Jedi there now, and there is no balance of the Light and Dark Sides on the planet and the planet has not ripped itself apart is evident. In fact the fact that the planet was damaging itself constantly while the Jee'dai were maintaining this balance indicates that trying to keep the balance they were keeping was what was causing the harm to come to the planet in the first place.

 

And Im not saying it has individuality nor a conciousness. It simply is - and that is (in) everything

 

Not quite.

 

The Force does have some form of a consciousness. It reacts to things. Sends very specific visions and prophesies. The Force seeks "balance" at all times, by "balance" we mean that the Force seeks to be rid of the Sith (specifically the Baneite Sith) rather actively.

 

As for dark siders: They get power hungry, trying to tame the force as it were for their own (and usually disastrous ends).

What if it is all part of the balancing? How can one appreciate peace if hardships and war are never experienced?

 

The Force doesn't seek the kind of balance you want to impart on it.

 

Secound point: You make it sound like only dark siderds, Siths, disrupt the 'balance', the peace, of the galaxy. Surely, non force sensitive stirred wars and chaos across if not the entire known, at least sectors of the galaxy. My memory fails me at the moment but I suppose hutt cartels could fall into that category.

 

The Hutt Cartels don't upset the balance of the Force. The Force can only be unbalanced specifically with the actions of Sith. Specifically it was the concentration of power that the Baneite Sith were creating that threw the Force out of balance.

 

And as you said: Anakin had to fall to the dark side as part of his spiritual journey. The destruction caused by it, the countless deaths, just for one individual spiritual ascention? Seems far fetched. Perhaps the galaxy needed a new order. Perhaps not Palpatine's. Maybe the empire was simply the initial transition towards a new 'order'.

 

Incorrect.

 

Anakin Skywalker stepped off of his chosen path. He was to stand with the Jedi Order and take Palpatine down, that was always his destiny. Defending Palpatine from Windu wasn't wrong, Windu stepped over the edge, but at that time Anakin had to make a choice... Give up what he wanted (Padme) and bring balance to the Force (strike Palpatine down)... He failed to make that choice and plunged the Galaxy into darkness.

 

Later he redeemed himself but it was never in the cards for him to fall. That was a detour.

 

Conflic IS natural. It happens every day. Not exclusively started by force sensitives. SW world - or should I say galaxy - isnt a perfect utopia. Its a mirror of our own world.

To summarize: What Im trying to say is this: 'good' and 'evil' are both oposites sides of the same coin. They cannot exist without each other. Their very definitions are difficult to make, and is usually done by comparing one to another.

 

Star Wars is a fairy tale, not the real world. It isn't "shades of gray" and it is very possible for there to be good without evil. In fact Lucas has stated those words on more than one occasion.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Section 02: Taking sides

There are no sides to the Force. It is believed that their is a Light Side and a Dark Side. This notion is false. The Force is purely Light Side. Harmony, peace, and tranquility are at the core of the Force, something Yoda attempted to achieve during his lifetime. The Dark Side seeks conflict, sending the Force out of balance(more on that later). Conflict disturbs the natural harmony of the galaxy and The Force. The Dark Side is sort of like the Anti-Force. The reason it is called Dark Side, I don't know, but Dark Side sounds cooler than Anti-Force. The Dark Side is completely separate from The Force.

 

This is incorrect. Lucas has confirmed 100% that there is a Light Side (the Force) and a Dark Side. This is not something that can be debated. Light and Dark exist.

[JacenHallis]

Tython spoilers enclosed. You have been warned.

In Power of the Jedi it specifically said that the Jedi Order has the most correct view of the Force. This means in the places where the Jee'dai try to contradict the Jedi the Jee'dai are simply wrong.

At the time that might have been true. But this sourcebook is out of date, as it takes neither the Clone Wars nor the more recent fiction into account. Also, it's called "Power of the Jedi." Is there any doubt that it would favor the Jedi philosophy? But, it's a sourcebook written in an omnipotent perspective, so maybe there is something to it.

 

Except when you get to The Dark Side Sourcebook, which states:

The natural order encompasses balance. Day and night, life and death, light and dark--each pair represents a different kind of balance. As a part of the natural order, the Force follows the same rules. The light side embodies peace, knowledge and serenity. The dark side encompasses fear, anger and aggression. Both sides exist simultaneously, but not always in balance. Sometimes the light side has predominance; at other times, the dark side dominates.

Moving forward, the Jedi Academy Training Manual says that the Jedi "probably has the best understanding of the Force." But then it goes on, and explains that not even the Jedi Order is really sure of what the Force is, as there are debates as to the nature and embodiment of the Force: The Living Force vs. the Unifying Force. Then, it talks about the Potentium (the belief that the Force is inherently good, and the dark side is a corruption of the Force) which is not supported by the Jedi Order.

 

All of these books predate the Dawn of the Jedi series.

The Jee'dai completely misunderstood certain aspects of the Force. They, for example, thought that you had to keep a balance of Light and Dark or the planet of Tython would explode. The fact that there are Jedi there now, and there is no balance of the Light and Dark Sides on the planet and the planet has not ripped itself apart is evident. In fact the fact that the planet was damaging itself constantly while the Jee'dai were maintaining this balance indicates that trying to keep the balance they were keeping was what was causing the harm to come to the planet in the first place.

A vast simplification of the Je'daii philosophy, and misleading beside the fact. The Je'daii believed that an unbalanced Force would affect Tython. The reason they believed this is because they witnessed it firsthand. The entire first story takes place in a Force Storm created by the sudden inclusion of a powerful Dark Side user as well as the lingering "psychic residue" (for lack of a better term) from a ship full of frightened people that was destroyed when it crashed to the surface of the world.

 

SPOILERS INCOMING

Tython in TOR does not serve as a conflicting example. The jedi are on Tython, yes. But who else is there? Flesh Raiders. Twi'lek pilgrims being attacked by Flesh Raiders. The lingering Force Ghost of a powerful dark side user remains in the Forge area, and a fallen jedi is training an army to destroy the Jedi Order so that it can be rebuilt the way he believes it should be built. That's a lot of Dark Side to balance out the presence of the Order.

SPOILERS COMPLETE

 

The Je'daii order has not been proven wrong. There simply hasn't been a chance for them to do that.

Star Wars is a fairy tale, not the real world. It isn't "shades of gray" and it is very possible for there to be good without evil. In fact Lucas has stated those words on more than one occasion.

The thing about Lucas, though, is that he specifically refers only to the movies. And in his movies, that may certainly be the case. In terms of this game and the Star Wars universe as a whole, we have to take into consideration things besides the movies, because the movies are only a very small part of the universe. because of this, George Lucas is no more an expert on the Force than you or I are. In fact, I'm willing to bet that we've read more about the Force than George Lucas ever has.

 

Star Wars is not Lucas' creation anymore. It's the creation of numerous authors that have included those shades of grey into the universe. He may own the IP, but he no longer owns the universe.

[Acrolepsia]

The Force does have some form of a consciousness. It reacts to things. Sends very specific visions and prophesies. The Force seeks "balance" at all times, by "balance" we mean that the Force seeks to be rid of the Sith (specifically the Baneite Sith) rather actively.

 

The Force doesn't seek the kind of balance you want to impart on it.

 

What I don't understand is why, if as you're saying the force activitely seeks to get rid of the Siths, it submits to them in the first place. Or why the Sith end up corrupted shells of their former selves, bringing even more disturbance.

Could you elaborate on this? Id like to hear what you have to say about the 'dark side' of the force.

 

And Im not trying to impart anything. Im merely speculating debating

 

The Hutt Cartels don't upset the balance of the Force. The Force can only be unbalanced specifically with the actions of Sith. Specifically it was the concentration of power that the Baneite Sith were creating that threw the Force out of balance.

 

I wasnt talking about force balance per se. But giving an exemple of non force users who disrupts the peace of the galaxy. Hutt cartels might not have been the best exemple but I thoght youd get the idea.

 

Anakin Skywalker stepped off of his chosen path. He was to stand with the Jedi Order and take Palpatine down, that was always his destiny. Defending Palpatine from Windu wasn't wrong, Windu stepped over the edge, but at that time Anakin had to make a choice... Give up what he wanted (Padme) and bring balance to the Force (strike Palpatine down)... He failed to make that choice and plunged the Galaxy into darkness.

 

Later he redeemed himself but it was never in the cards for him to fall. That was a detour..

 

His fall was pretty much inevitable. And I seem to recall that most of the Masters were skeptical of him being the one the prophecy refered to. And those who did believe: Could the prophecy have been missinterpretade? That was the core of my point.

 

Star Wars is a fairy tale, not the real world. It isn't "shades of gray" and it is very possible for there to be good without evil. In fact Lucas has stated those words on more than one occasion.

Fair enough. I'd label it fantasy instead of fairy tale, but I get your point. And I still stand where I did. "Fairy tale" or not, its a 'mirror' of our own world. And by that I meant the numerous similarities between both worlds.

[Aurbere]

... By the Force I hate when people try to bring the Jee'dai up.

 

Okay... Here it is... Canonically.

 

In Power of the Jedi it specifically said that the Jedi Order has the most correct view of the Force. This means in the places where the Jee'dai try to contradict the Jedi the Jee'dai are simply wrong.

 

The Jee'dai completely misunderstood certain aspects of the Force. They, for example, thought that you had to keep a balance of Light and Dark or the planet of Tython would explode. The fact that there are Jedi there now, and there is no balance of the Light and Dark Sides on the planet and the planet has not ripped itself apart is evident. In fact the fact that the planet was damaging itself constantly while the Jee'dai were maintaining this balance indicates that trying to keep the balance they were keeping was what was causing the harm to come to the planet in the first place.

 

 

 

Not quite.

 

The Force does have some form of a consciousness. It reacts to things. Sends very specific visions and prophesies. The Force seeks "balance" at all times, by "balance" we mean that the Force seeks to be rid of the Sith (specifically the Baneite Sith) rather actively.

 

 

 

The Force doesn't seek the kind of balance you want to impart on it.

 

 

 

The Hutt Cartels don't upset the balance of the Force. The Force can only be unbalanced specifically with the actions of Sith. Specifically it was the concentration of power that the Baneite Sith were creating that threw the Force out of balance.

 

 

 

Incorrect.

 

Anakin Skywalker stepped off of his chosen path. He was to stand with the Jedi Order and take Palpatine down, that was always his destiny. Defending Palpatine from Windu wasn't wrong, Windu stepped over the edge, but at that time Anakin had to make a choice... Give up what he wanted (Padme) and bring balance to the Force (strike Palpatine down)... He failed to make that choice and plunged the Galaxy into darkness.

 

Later he redeemed himself but it was never in the cards for him to fall. That was a detour.

 

 

 

Star Wars is a fairy tale, not the real world. It isn't "shades of gray" and it is very possible for there to be good without evil. In fact Lucas has stated those words on more than one occasion.

 

You pretty much summed up what I was going to say. Oh, well. One less thing for me to reply to.

[Aurbere]

What I don't understand is why, if as you're saying the force activitely seeks to get rid of the Siths, it submits to them in the first place. Or why the Sith end up corrupted shells of their former selves, bringing even more disturbance.

Could you elaborate on this? Id like to hear what you have to say about the 'dark side' of the force.

 

And Im not trying to impart anything. Im merely speculating debating

 

 

 

I wasnt talking about force balance per se. But giving an exemple of non force users who disrupts the peace of the galaxy. Hutt cartels might not have been the best exemple but I thoght youd get the idea.

 

 

 

His fall was pretty much inevitable. And I seem to recall that most of the Masters were skeptical of him being the one the prophecy refered to. And those who did believe: Could the prophecy have been missinterpretade? That was the core of my point.

 

 

Fair enough. I'd label it fantasy instead of fairy tale, but I get your point. And I still stand where I did. "Fairy tale" or not, its a 'mirror' of our own world. And by that I meant the numerous similarities between both worlds.

 

1. As I have stated multiple times, the Force is purely Light. The Dark Side is a disease of sorts. An outside influence. Think of the Dark Side to the Force as you would cancer to the human body. It destroys and slowly kills you. Same with the Force. Palpatine was the embodiment of the Dark Side and he almost destroyed the Jedi, which would pretty much stop the Force. And by stop, I don't mean nutralizing it, I mean it would have stopped the Force from actively engaging the Dark Side through Jedi and force it to use other methods. Hence the Rebel Alliance.

 

2. Any outside faction doesn't disrupt the Force, but the balance of the galaxy. The Sith are the only ones who can disrupt the balance of the Force.

 

3. Anakin's fall was inevitable, due to Palpatine's influence. but Anakin could have resisted the temptation and fufilled the prophecy. The council was skeptical to train because he lived an emotional life prior to leaving Tatooine. Those emotions heavily impeded his training because they got in the way of what was important. Obi-Wan believed the prophecy and was training him to destroy the Sith. Of course, there is no evidence pointing to it, but it is obvious that Obi-Wan was training him to face the Sith. And when fighting a Sith Lord you must be at peace to counter their emotions with your calm mind.

[ProfessorWalsh]

What I don't understand is why, if as you're saying the force activitely seeks to get rid of the Siths, it submits to them in the first place. Or why the Sith end up corrupted shells of their former selves, bringing even more disturbance.

Could you elaborate on this? Id like to hear what you have to say about the 'dark side' of the force.

 

And Im not trying to impart anything. Im merely speculating debating

 

The Force doesn't submit to the SIth. The Dark Side submits to the Sith. Two different things. The Force often seems to act like a mirror.

 

If you seek to serve the Force, like a Jedi does, then the Force serves you. This creates symbiosis with the Force.

 

If you seek to enslave the Force, like a Sith does, then the Dark Side enslaves you. This creates a cancerous relationship with the Force.

 

His fall was pretty much inevitable. And I seem to recall that most of the Masters were skeptical of him being the one the prophecy refered to. And those who did believe: Could the prophecy have been missinterpretade? That was the core of my point.

 

We know from George Lucas that the prophesy was fulfilled when the last (Baneite) Sith, Sidious, was destroyed. Therefor the prophesy was not misinterpreted. Thus Anakin's fall was not inevitable.

[smartalectwo]

'Everything is guided, but not all is predestined.'

 

The Force had a destiny in mind for Anakin. The Dark Side corrupted it. The Force found new ways to keep the possibility of Anakin fulfilling his destiny open, and in the end, that paid off.

 

You can pour garbage into a river, but it keeps on flowin'.

[Aurbere]

'Everything is guided, but not all is predestined.'

 

The Force had a destiny in mind for Anakin. The Dark Side corrupted it. The Force found new ways to keep the possibility of Anakin fulfilling his destiny open, and in the end, that paid off.

 

You can pour garbage into a river, but it keeps on flowin'.

 

That's actually a well worded description. And a very accurate one at that.

[Wolfninjajedi]

'Everything is guided, but not all is predestined.'

 

The Force had a destiny in mind for Anakin. The Dark Side corrupted it. The Force found new ways to keep the possibility of Anakin fulfilling his destiny open, and in the end, that paid off.

 

You can pour garbage into a river, but it keeps on flowin'.

 

River would smell terrible!

[Aurbere]

River would smell terrible!

 

I'm betting Anakin didn't smell that great inside the suit either.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I'm betting Anakin didn't smell that great inside the suit either.

 

Rumor has it he smelled like feet wrapped in leathery burned bacon.

[Aurbere]

Rumor has it he smelled like feet wrapped in leathery burned bacon.

 

I see what you did there