Combat vs Watchman (For end-game PvE)

[vizsanity]

I'm a level 50 Focus Sentinel who has almost exclusively PvPed, an accomplished player but with little end-game content experience. I am now in a new raiding guild wanting me to dps for end-game content. I have been rolling with my Focus build but finding that I have issues in fights with multiple bosses and pulling aggro with super powered Force Sweeps. I'm thinking I need to change to a better single target damage dealer and wanting to know if I should roll a Combat or Watchman.

 

I wanting to know, especially if you have experience with both skill trees, their dps output (relative to each other), are some of Combat's skills wasted on PvE (too PvP orientated) and any other advice to help me make my choice would be much appreciated. I have tried them out in PvP but only for a few matches each and found their rotations equally alien to me (just too used to Focus) but I do find Combat a little harder on prolonged fights as it's CD's are all over the place (correct me if I'm wrong here).

[Cinemayor]

Levelled as Combat.

Respecced Watchman not long after hitting 50.

Returned to Combat last week.

 

Watchman:

 

> Higher sustained dps.

> Shorter cd on kick and able to use Leap at point-blank range as a second interrupt.

> In fights requiring a lot of movement, your burns will still tick away while you do so.

> Limited self-healing (party heals while Zen is up).

 

Combat:

 

> An almost improbable amount of burst.

> Better Transcendence (very useful on certain fights).

> Faster in-combat movement.

> Better for pvp (imho Combat is THE pvp spec, moreso than Focus). Watchman will give bigger numbers but Combat can burst people down stupidly fast and the root on Crippling Throw is godly.

 

In practice, despite parsing a little lower on the ops dummy with Combat, I find I am actually doing MORE damage than I was as Watchman - quite a lot of the fights favour burst damage more than you'd realise.

 

You can't really go wrong with either spec to be fair, it's mostly a matter of which one you find easier to use. I'm happy that I can get the best out of both and prefer Combat at the moment. There are certainly little tricks to each to get best performance and you're likely to be an aggro-magnet either way (your tanks should be guarding you but even so I find I have to use Camo frequently, especially after my opening burst and during the last 30%).

 

For Watchman it's all about the burns - keep those dot's up and Merc Slash on cooldown.

For Combat it's all about Precision Slash and timing your Zen windows and Master Strikes to fall as close to Precision Slash being off cd as possible.

 

Watchman is probably a little more forgiving as Combat requires some pretty ninja timing to get the absolute best from it but when it all comes together? Boom. Also, I suspect Combat is considerably more gear-sensitive; that's just a gut feeling and since my gear is now obscenely good I don't have much comparison in a before/after way like I do with Watchman.

[LagunaD]

There is an active and detailed discussion, including parses, in the Marauder forums:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=503925

 

In Imp lingo:

Combat = Carnage

Watchman = Annihilation

 

It appears that, at least in controlled tests, Combat is on par, or nearly so, with Watchman. Close enough that you should play the one you prefer (which for me is Combat).

[terencechan]

If you prefer simple tank and spank fights and hitting target dummies to justify your worth as a dps, go for Watchman.

[Nolenthar]

 

Watchman is probably a little more forgiving as Combat requires some pretty ninja timing to get the absolute best from it but when it all comes together?

 

I loled.

 

Took me 15 minutes to parse combat in a 3% dps window of what I was doing with Watchman. Combat is utterly boring and easy. The rotation, especially with Zen, is laughable. Unless you like to spam 1 button.

[Orarr]

We really needed another thread about this, it's been at least 2 days since the last one.

[vizsanity]

There is an active and detailed discussion, including parses, in the Marauder forums:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=503925

 

In Imp lingo:

Combat = Carnage

Watchman = Annihilation

 

It appears that, at least in controlled tests, Combat is on par, or nearly so, with Watchman. Close enough that you should play the one you prefer (which for me is Combat).

 

Thanks that thread helped. Seems they have similar DPS outputs with a slight advantage to Watchman.

[vizsanity]

Levelled as Combat.

Respecced Watchman not long after hitting 50.

Returned to Combat last week.

 

Watchman:

 

> Higher sustained dps.

> Shorter cd on kick and able to use Leap at point-blank range as a second interrupt.

> In fights requiring a lot of movement, your burns will still tick away while you do so.

> Limited self-healing (party heals while Zen is up).

 

Combat:

 

> An almost improbable amount of burst.

> Better Transcendence (very useful on certain fights).

> Faster in-combat movement.

> Better for pvp (imho Combat is THE pvp spec, moreso than Focus). Watchman will give bigger numbers but Combat can burst people down stupidly fast and the root on Crippling Throw is godly.

 

In practice, despite parsing a little lower on the ops dummy with Combat, I find I am actually doing MORE damage than I was as Watchman - quite a lot of the fights favour burst damage more than you'd realise.

 

You can't really go wrong with either spec to be fair, it's mostly a matter of which one you find easier to use. I'm happy that I can get the best out of both and prefer Combat at the moment. There are certainly little tricks to each to get best performance and you're likely to be an aggro-magnet either way (your tanks should be guarding you but even so I find I have to use Camo frequently, especially after my opening burst and during the last 30%).

 

For Watchman it's all about the burns - keep those dot's up and Merc Slash on cooldown.

For Combat it's all about Precision Slash and timing your Zen windows and Master Strikes to fall as close to Precision Slash being off cd as possible.

 

Watchman is probably a little more forgiving as Combat requires some pretty ninja timing to get the absolute best from it but when it all comes together? Boom. Also, I suspect Combat is considerably more gear-sensitive; that's just a gut feeling and since my gear is now obscenely good I don't have much comparison in a before/after way like I do with Watchman.

 

Thanks Cinemayor. Good to get a response that's not majorly biased like most. Just a few questions for you about Combat:

- Do you get the max dps by using Master Strike then a crit Blade Storm during the Precision Slash window?

- Is Combat a lot of spamming Blade Rush?

- What is your general rotation?

- Do you enjoy the play style of Combat better than Watchman?

 

I've been playing Watchman and it's fun so far and will soon give Combat a go.

[PowerReaper]

I've been playing Combat and probably will stick with it, the burst damage you can do in that spec is beyond amazing...and don't get me started with gods personal ability Precision Slash . . . Edited August 15, 2012 by PowerReaper

[Fracta]

I've always got better parser results with Combat.

 

With all the buffs and a might stim I'm doing close to 1800 dps over 800 seconds on the ops training dummy.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Fracta

[vizsanity]

I've always got better parser results with Combat.

 

With all the buffs and a might stim I'm doing close to 1800 dps over 800 seconds on the ops training dummy.

 

I'll ask you what I asked the guy above. Are you spamming BR a lot? IF so do you ever feel the play style is boring at all?

[AidanLightwalker]

I'll ask you what I asked the guy above. Are you spamming BR a lot? IF so do you ever feel the play style is boring at all?

 

Yes, it is alot of blade rush. But there are a few situational times where it changes. Out in the game world I use pommel strike and opportune strike alot to destroy groups of adds fast. In ops, it's alot of precision slash, blade rush, blade storm and master strike.

 

And yes, use master strike and then blade storm during precision slash. Its easier to fit them both in that way.

[BlznSmri]

I'll ask you what I asked the guy above. Are you spamming BR a lot? IF so do you ever feel the play style is boring at all?

 

No, because I feel it's more active, if I'm not pressing buttons, I'm not doing damage, I can't take a break at all with Combat spec. Also, timing is everything.

[LagunaD]

Yeah, I have seen people post about Combat allegedly consisting of spamming Blade Rush, but I don't really see the difference from Watchman.

 

Core abilities with Combat (in no particular order):

1) Blade Rush

2) Zealous Strike

3) Master Strike

4) Precision Slash

5) Blade Storm

 

Core abilities with Watchman (in no particular order):

1) Slash

2) Zealous Strike

3) Merciless Slash

4) Cauterize

5) Overload Saber

 

In addition, both use Strike, Zen, Dispatch, etc

 

My understanding is that Watchman uses Master Strike relatively rarely, and some Combat Sents use Cauterize.

 

Not seeing a huge difference in variety here. Watchman has to monitor their DoTs, and Combat has to monitor their buffs.

 

Sure, while Zen is up, you want to use Blade Rush a lot, but Zen with Watchman is essentially passive. If anything, Zen mixes up the Combat ability selection by changing costs, timing and priorities, while in Watchman I don't think you really do much of anything with Zen that you wouldn't do without Zen (I am not an expert on Watchman by any means, so I may be mistaken on this).

[BlznSmri]

Sure, while Zen is up, you want to use Blade Rush a lot, but Zen with Watchman is essentially passive. If anything, Zen mixes up the Combat ability selection by changing costs, timing and priorities, while in Watchman I don't think you really do much of anything with Zen that you wouldn't do without Zen (I am not an expert on Watchman by any means, so I may be mistaken on this).

 

You're pretty much correct. Zen would be really lack-luster for Watchmen were it not for the 6% party wide heal. Ideally a geared Watchmen would have 50-56% (from talents and gear) critical strike chance with their burns, meaning that 6 "Stacks" of a 100% burn crit chance that is consumed by both Cauterize (your weak burn) and Overload Saber (crits at 3 stacks hit as hard as my slash usually does when I spec watchmen) don't really change things very much. Yes it's a DPS boost, but marginal in comparison to Combat's Zen, and because of it being consumed by both Cauterize and Overload Saber, it's hard to time for use as "Burst" rotation. Not to mention that it takes about 3 seconds (2 globals) to get 3 stacks of the Overload Saber burn.

 

Basically, use Zen whenever you can as Watchmen, trying to save it for "burst" phases wouldn't make too much of a difference.