New speccs

[upzie]

Theres been a few threads lately about hybrids and such.

 

Some suggested 23/15/3 With Dark Charge

Wich I personaly think is a waste of alot of talents and alot of synergi the talents inbetween.

 

Some suggested 5/13/23 With lightning Charge

Slightly Better, but again I still think its lacking some Synergi with the talents inbetween, plus some keytalents I find almost impossible to live without in pvp.

 

And then we have Shin's 0/13/28

Wich is proberly the best of the 3's I mentioned, but again, I think that it just lacks the last bit to make it really viable.

 

This ofc. Is all from my own POV.

 

So I was thinking things through, and trying out a few different things and ended up playing around with 11/13/17. Its very close to Shins 0/13/28, I basicly give up abit of burst on Deathfield to gain access to a short cd on Force Speed and disjuntion, the fact that remove the kiting issue, gain 9% AP + 60-70 more dmg on each surge procc makes it alot more attractiv imo.

 

Any way I wont go into to many details, but basicly all your talents keep their synergi, you gain the same mobility as you would with a darkness specc, your burst is still very solid and the CC is pretty much as good as it gets, if I had to point out two things that I feel this specc lack then its the survivability of darkness (wich all dps speccs lack), and force pull, but I guess you cant have it all.

 

But personaly I find this to the most solid dps specc available to us atm.

 

I've got a vod of me doing 4-5 games in normal wz's with a concealment ops mate, have a look at judge for yourself, wether or not the specc delivers what I am talking about.

 

 

VoD 11/13/17

[EvilSoft]

Looks very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll give it a try in my next videos. Besides that, what's about using Dark Charge with this build? Any experiences? Keep it up!

[Xethis]

Theres been a few threads lately about hybrids and such.

 

Some suggested 23/15/3 With Dark Charge

Wich I personaly think is a waste of alot of talents and alot of synergi the talents inbetween.

 

Some suggested 5/13/23 With lightning Charge

Slightly Better, but again I still think its lacking some Synergi with the talents inbetween, plus some keytalents I find almost impossible to live without in pvp.

I feel the need to disagree with you. I think you are missing the main objective of these two specs.

 

With the Dark Maul (23-15-3) I am not sure what talents you are referring to that are wasted, or what synergy you think there isn't. This spec has great talents and utility. Its built around the synergy of Blood of the Sith, Dark Swell and Induction. You maximizing your force regen for some hard hitting Maul spam. This offers the best burst with survivability. Ive parsed the damage and during that 12 sec of Dark Embrace this spec can put out almost 2k dps. That is awesome burst for having such great survivability. The only downfall of this spec is its sustained dps.

 

Mad Maul 5/13/23 you also site as having poor synergy and wasted talents. Again I don't think you understand this spec at all. Unearthed Knowledge makes your Thrash, Maul and Assassinate hit really really hard. Mix those in with Chain Shocks and Raze procs and Deathfields and you have some insane dps. Even more synergy between Death Mark, Raze and Recklessness, your Crushing Darkness hits insanely hard. There is no way your spec can even come close to this in dps. The only fall back on this spec is its survivability.

 

You need to travel farther in the Darkness tree or the Madness tree, you are the one that is missing key talents. Blood of the Sith, Energize, Force Pull, Eye of the Storm, and Electrify are great talents that your missing. And in the Madness tree you are missing key talents as well, Raze, Unearthed Knowledge, Death Mark. These are your "key talents". The spec you are proposing is worse than if you just went all the way deception. At least get some hard hitting Shocks and Discharges.

[upzie]

You need to travel farther in the Darkness tree or the Madness tree, you are the one that is missing key talents. Blood of the Sith, Energize, Force Pull, Eye of the Storm, and Electrify are great talents that your missing. And in the Madness tree you are missing key talents as well, Raze, Unearthed Knowledge, Death Mark. These are your "key talents". The spec you are proposing is worse than if you just went all the way deception. At least get some hard hitting Shocks and Discharges.

 

I dont even know where to start, I am sorry you feel offended that I did not "like" your specc.

 

But your mistaken here, if you bothered to read through the whole post, instead of getting mad when I uttered my oppinion on the 3 speccs.

 

First off Blood of the sith is not needed for this specc, yes the energy regen is fine, but seeing as all your attacks are dirty cheap, you never really get forceStarved, it would be nice to have, but not really that important. As for Energize, I think your putting way to much emphize on that talent, its good but I am sorry to say its not the end all be all.

 

Now you start talking about endtier Talents, again, this is not a darkness Build, but an alternativ to the different dps speccs floating around out there, so ye in that sense I'll miss some keytalents, I also miss wither for that part, but its hardly relevant for this topic.

 

And what you apperently do not understand when I critiqued your build, it was that there are to many "waste" talents, in the sense that they do not synergize with your other talents, just take "Surging Charge" you spend 8 talents pts to basicly get "30% crit dmg on Maul/assassinate", to me thats alot of "wastede" talent pts, I dont think any one ever used that many talent pts to get such a s mall buff. Long story short, you pay alot comparede to what you get.

 

Where as all of the talents I lineup, have perfect synergi, and they all benefit from each other.

 

And thats bascily the same issue I got with your friends "5/13/23"

 

8 pts spent to get 30% crit dmg on Maul/assassinate, and not benefit from surging charge's extreme cheap shocks, and I am sorry to break it to you but UEK is a overall really weak talent, why do you think most ppl leave it out of their pve rotation when they are dps'ing, because its simply not worth the force if they dont have recklessness op, it only benefits your white dmg, and thats it.

 

Also using Paratism in that build is completly misplaced, the only time you pick up that talent for pvp is if your going full madness so you got 3x dots running and Devour + 2x forcemaster set pieces, otherwise that talent is not even close to worth its pts cost. And using dots with out Creeping Death is also just a weak version of Madness. With madness you atleast pickup a root. Raze is a good talent I'll give you that, but using that many talent pts just to get a weak version of Madness raze, in my book its just silly.

 

Now with all that said ofc. the speccs can perform, but to me they just seems like weak versions of stronger builds, and I am not just refereing to my own attempt of a build, but 23/15/3 vs 23/1/17, not even a competition, 5/13/23 vs 5/3/33, again not even a competition just to make two examples.

 

These are ofc. all just personal oppinions, and I might not have phrased it as clearly as I could have but thats life.

 

As for you end comment, again I am sorry that you got butthurt, but you getting mad dont really change the game mechanics.

Edited August 10, 2012 by upzie

[Werdan]

I tried a very similar 11/15/15 build (swap Haunted Dreams for Insulation and add Darkswell and Deceptive Power). The problem with these specs is that eventually you feel like a jack of all trades and master of none (well perhaps mobility). I like Disjunction, Lightning Recovery and Obfuscation for the increased mobility you get. Other than that you get a weaker Chain Shock (no Energize or Electrify from Darkness or added damage from Voltaic Slash in Decepion) even though it costs half the force with 2 stacks. Death Field on its own, even at a lower cost, is just meh. Maul and Thrash hit harder, which is a good selling point. That said, I find full Deception to be better than both specs.

 

It's a shame that the most solid overall build is full tank spec in dps gear w/focus.

[Xethis]

@ Upzie, I think we are both over defending our specs that we like the most. My intention was not to just say yours was useless and mine were better, I was just trying to disagree with your comment that neither Dark Maul or Mad Maul had any synergy. The synergy with those specs revolves around completely different talents and play styles. I do not see how you think there is so much wasted talent points spent in the Deception tree. There is only one wasted talent and that goes to get induction, I actually run 15 pnts there so I can get Black Out and Darkswell which both add to the synergy of Maul spam.

 

Sure cheaper Shocks are great because they really don't offer the best dps potential at their full force cost. But I rarely use shock, infact I only use it on an Energize proc which in turn makes it well worth the 45 Force. Keep in mind that I have the talent Blood of the Sith which is further adding to the synergy of the high cost of Shock. You also stated that 23-15-3 had no key talents, well I do agree that instant Whirlwind is better than out of stealth Spike, I will argue that it is not better than Spike and Force Pull together.

 

I have stated many times that there are better specs out there, my only claim is that Dark Maul is effective and fun.

[upzie]

You also stated that 23-15-3 had no key talents, well I do agree that instant Whirlwind is better than out of stealth Spike, I will argue that it is not better than Spike and Force Pull together.

 

your mixing up what I said about the different speccs, the key talents I talk about was for mad maul, I do idd think that forcepull are one of the best moves we got, along with WW. Spike is okay, not amazing, and not bad.

 

I still think your spending to much pts on unduction, seeing as you only use half the talent, and surging charge is 1 completely wastede talen. And electric execution with DC is at best subpar.

[Xethis]

Upzie I am trying really hard to find what you see in this spec, I am looking at it as objectively as I can. There are just too many things you are missing by not going farther up the trees. Surging Charge is so fail, 25% chance to do 321 dmg is way less than a 50% chance to do 179 dmg and a 227 heal. It is also worse than the Lightning Charge which does 50% chance at 155 dmg. Yes Surging Charge damage is slightly higher but with Lightning Charge you get heals back from your dot which put it over the top for me. So basically your just using Surging Charge for the cheap Shocks, its not a bad idea. But your Shocks are so damn weak with out Crackling Blast. Not to mention your Discharge from Surging Charge is also really really bad with out Static Charges and Crackling Blast.

 

Surging Charge kills your survivability with out the pay out of increased damage. In Dark Charge you can still Maul and Assassinate (our best attacks) just as hard as full Deception Assassins but you get Armor, Heals, and Utility out of the Darkness tree. If you went into the Madness tree and used Lightning Charge you get heals and a lot more burst and sustained damage. Even if you went all the way into Madness and utilized Creeping Terror over Induction is still not a bad idea, many people prefer the extra dot damage and the stun to increase ranged dps as well as increased heals.

 

Ive spent many hours on the dummies trying out many specs and rotations, I encourage you to do the same. Find out what abilities really do synergize and look for alternate rotations and see what hits and what doesn't.

[Astarica]

I don't think it's even possible to PvP without Disjunction which implies 11 points in Darkness. Other than that I think there's a lot of room for experimenting.

 

The one major problem I have with anything that doesn't go deep enough to pick up Harnessed Darkness is that without HD, you're pretty much always a weaker version of a Marauder because they're the #1 class at melee range damage and without HD you just don't have enough ranged DPS to take you out of the 'melee range' classification. This is a problem with Marauders being too strong at melee range but it's something we got to live with. In a world without Marauders I'd say anything with at least 11 points in Darkness is a viable build, but we do not live in that world.

[upzie]

Upzie I am trying really hard to find what you see in this spec, I am looking at it as objectively as I can. There are just too many things you are missing by not going farther up the trees. Surging Charge is so fail, 25% chance to do 321 dmg is way less than a 50% chance to do 179 dmg and a 227 heal. It is also worse than the Lightning Charge which does 50% chance at 155 dmg. Yes Surging Charge damage is slightly higher but with Lightning Charge you get heals back from your dot which put it over the top for me. So basically your just using Surging Charge for the cheap Shocks, its not a bad idea. But your Shocks are so damn weak with out Crackling Blast. Not to mention your Discharge from Surging Charge is also really really bad with out Static Charges and Crackling Blast.

 

Surging Charge kills your survivability with out the pay out of increased damage. In Dark Charge you can still Maul and Assassinate (our best attacks) just as hard as full Deception Assassins but you get Armor, Heals, and Utility out of the Darkness tree. If you went into the Madness tree and used Lightning Charge you get heals and a lot more burst and sustained damage. Even if you went all the way into Madness and utilized Creeping Terror over Induction is still not a bad idea, many people prefer the extra dot damage and the stun to increase ranged dps as well as increased heals.

 

Ive spent many hours on the dummies trying out many specs and rotations, I encourage you to do the same. Find out what abilities really do synergize and look for alternate rotations and see what hits and what doesn't.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I'll give you one example though, how much dmg do you do when you get knocked back and are rooted for 5 secs while getting ***** by a rangede dps because you do not have disjunction, or how do you run a goal in hutball when you got rooted right infront or on top of the fire again because you didnt have disjunction with 5/13/23? Frankly I dont have the time, or the energy to point out the what to me seems to be obvious. Your happy with your choice's and in the end whatever ppl choose as long as they themself are happy, thats fine. It really does not affect me in any way or shape.

 

And frankly I dno why I even bother, I am getting a bit tired of holding ppls hand, if they choose to play something subpar, then why should I really care - Best of luck.

Edited August 11, 2012 by upzie

[DarthMerritt]

Personally I think this build is genius.

 

It might not be the highest DPS build possible or the most durable, but it takes the stealthy, bursty playstyle and gives it much needed utility and survivability. Instant cast Whirlwind, clense roots & snares, lower cd on Force Shroud -- and you get all that while still being extremely stealthy and doing some nice burst damage.

 

I'm definitely trying this out. Thank you for breathing some much needed life into the Deception assassin

[Rafkin]

I run with 0/31/10

 

I know everyone likes to slam deception but I have ACT, I've tested everything you guys have ever posted, and for PvE dps nothing has beaten pure deception.

 

People like to get fancy and want to come up with the shiny new hybrid so they feel special. But it's all crap.

[Trauglodyte]

You know that you've got a tree that is so poorly designed and predominantly dead (or another tree that is just over tuned) that you'd rather fully spec into a tank tree than actually fully spec into a non-shared DPS tree. I swear, Deception/Infiltration is so poorly thought out that I can't even fathom what the designer was thinking. You've gotta use Voltaic twice in order to get a stronger shock but the tank tree can do a much stronger shock more often AND guarantee that it crits. Both Darkness and Madness have better Force regeneration and neither of them have to depend on a RNG to provide support. And the real kicker is that the Deception/Infiltration trees are supposedly built around stealth and yet they've got a talent which boosts stealth that you can't use while stealthed because the Force regen doesn't do you any good while you're stealthed. And, btw, the tank tree has the out of stealth use of Spike/Spinning Kick while Decep/Infil has a much more costly KD.

 

Hell, you can't even build a decent hybrid build with Decep/Infil that takes more than 13 points in it.