Advance Class Respec

[Ikselent]

Love how the word "fanboy" is shoved around as easily as you do. The whole world is filled with people who may disagree with topics you agree with. They are called people with opinions, not petty insults such as fanboys and drones.

 

You aren't forced to choose your Advanced Class. The forums and many other websites have tons of information regarding the advanced classes in order to help make a better decision. It's what many people do, it's how people choose classes based on their playstyle. You're also basing your desire based on basically 'Flavor of the month'. You shouldn't be choosing a class because it's OP, you should be choosing it because it's what you like, not because 20,000 other players are rolling it.

 

I play a Sorc, considered squishy and sloppy in PVP, I play it efficiently and do as good as a Marauder. Operative DPS is viable as well, Lethality snipers are amazing when played right, Darkness assassins great in their own way. The list goes on.

 

Stop basing this on "bad luck". You chose the class you're stuck with it. With every major patch comes major buffs and nerfs. No one ever knows who's class will strike lucky. So your point is moot.

 

You completely missed the whole point of my post....

 

I fully accept all of your points. I'm completely against all of this respec nonsense. I was exaggerating all of the Pro-Respec points to absurdity to show how crazy it is to expect an AC respec.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Ikselent

[DjSnazzyduds]

You completely missed the whole point of my post....

 

I fully accept all of your points. I'm completely against all of this respec nonsense. I was exaggerating all of the Pro-Respec points to absurdity to show how crazy it is to expect an AC respec.

 

Ah I see lol. Somewhat sarcastic I see . Glad we agree then!

[Trolltar]

You completely missed the whole point of my post....

 

I fully accept all of your points. I'm completely against all of this respec nonsense. I was exaggerating all of the Pro-Respec points to absurdity to show how crazy it is to expect an AC respec.

 

And, that achieves what exactly?

[Ikselent]

And, that achieves what exactly?

 

You apparently don't understand debate.

 

It shows how ridiculous something is by expanding it a little farther. Honestly, if we're going to start asking for AC respecs, we should start asking for Race, Faction, and PvP/PvE respecs. There isn't a difference there. But for some reason, only asking for AC respecs is okay.

[leathfuil]

You apparently don't understand debate.

 

Apparently neither do you.

 

It shows how ridiculous something is by expanding it a little farther. Honestly, if we're going to start asking for AC respecs, we should start asking for Race, Faction, and PvP/PvE respecs. There isn't a difference there. But for some reason, only asking for AC respecs is okay.

 

Slippery slope and false analogy arguments don't show anything.

[OHMYZOD]

I like how the permanent choice at lvl 10 keeps rearing its ugly head as well. We all know that when we reached lvl 10 on day 1 or 2 back in December that elemental attacks avoid armor. We all knew the servers would dry up and require consolidation. We all knew the game would become free THIS year. I definitely knew that my character would be neutered into a circus clown, which is why I leveled him into the 90's. PFFFFT!

 

Point is we DIDN'T. They eventually let people transfer servers so they could be satisfied with the game. Majik,Ikselent and whoever else is out there, why dont you guys explain to us all of the pitfalls and shortcomings your characters have. Tell us all your alts and who you consider your main is. I cant wait to hear the satisfaction oozing from your post as you explain how your OP FOTM builds are.

 

As to the reroll talk, OK you got it. I'll reroll into Powertech as soon as I keep my 94 "lazy" valor levels and all my armor/achievements. Then I'll delete my Merc so there wont be any crying over spilled milk.

 

When this happens, I'll retract my RESPEC request.

[Ikselent]

Apparently neither do you.

 

 

 

Slippery slope and false analogy arguments don't show anything.

 

It's not really a false analogy. Wanting to change one major aspect that is supposed to be permanent is no different than changing another aspect that is supposed to be permanent.

 

If you honestly think fallacies don't win debates then you're living in a fantasy world. If it were a true/false issue, then you'd be completely right here. But in a matter of opinion, slippery slope can be an applicable argument.

[leathfuil]

It's not really a false analogy. Wanting to change one major aspect that is supposed to be permanent is no different than changing another aspect that is supposed to be permanent.

 

It is a false analogy, as respeccing is already in the game; there just happens to be an arbitrarily placed barrier between half of the specs, placed there because BioWare's entire endgame plan to keep people subbed was leveling alts and they only have four classes in the game.

 

There is a difference between removing that barrier, and allowing race or faction changes. And since nobody in this thread is arguing for those, what you're really doing is creating a straw man argument.

 

If you honestly think fallacies don't win debates then you're living in a fantasy world. If it were a true/false issue, then you'd be completely right here. But in a matter of opinion, slippery slope can be an applicable argument.

 

Fallacies may win debates, but that doesn't make them legitimate arguments. Slippery slope can be an applicable argument only if you can show the progression from point A to point D. You did not do that.

[Polebreaker]

WTH do you care about your 94 lazy-*** valour levells anyways? It's good for absolutely nothing. I have a 90, an almost 80 and a 70, so what?

 

And how on earth did you spend 90+ valour levels playing the same toon, with all this gear, that you ONLY NOW REALIZE YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY? What kind of genius does that?

 

Seriously, Mr. Entitlement... reroll and get over it, or get out. MMOG's are apparently not for you.

 

It's tools like this, people who cant accept the consequences of their choices, that got the RP part of this RPG so watered down, the only thing it has in common with a classic BW game is the (now utterly meaningless) conversation wheel.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Polebreaker

[MrNoRubber]

I hope not.

 

It would be nice if --just for once-- people actually noticed that the game said your choice would be permanent, and actually tried to deal with that as if they were mature adults, rather than insisting that the world adapt to their petty desires.

 

Think of it as a life-lesson moment. A chance to practice being an adult.

 

 

 

 

 

didnt quote it on accident.... BUT THIS ^^^^

[SithEater]

It is a false analogy, as respeccing is already in the game; there just happens to be an arbitrarily placed barrier between half of the specs..blah.

Yes the same arbitrary barrier between races. The same arbitrary barrier between factions. You say this cause you must think arbitrary means "I don't like it". Just because I don't like cheese doesn't mean when crackdonald's puts it on a double quarter pounder with cheese that their decision to do so was arbitrary.

[DjSnazzyduds]

I like how the permanent choice at lvl 10 keeps rearing its ugly head as well. We all know that when we reached lvl 10 on day 1 or 2 back in December that elemental attacks avoid armor. We all knew the servers would dry up and require consolidation. We all knew the game would become free THIS year. I definitely knew that my character would be neutered into a circus clown, which is why I leveled him into the 90's. PFFFFT!

 

Point is we DIDN'T. They eventually let people transfer servers so they could be satisfied with the game. Majik,Ikselent and whoever else is out there, why dont you guys explain to us all of the pitfalls and shortcomings your characters have. Tell us all your alts and who you consider your main is. I cant wait to hear the satisfaction oozing from your post as you explain how your OP FOTM builds are.

 

As to the reroll talk, OK you got it. I'll reroll into Powertech as soon as I keep my 94 "lazy" valor levels and all my armor/achievements. Then I'll delete my Merc so there wont be any crying over spilled milk.

 

When this happens, I'll retract my RESPEC request.

 

You honestly are not making any sense whatsoever. You're just spewing random sentences with no basis to support your reasoning to want Advanced Class Respecs. You're basing it on the idea that "we didn't know which class would be OP." You continue to insult whoever disagrees with you which only further discredits your opinion. You're clearly basing this entire thread on the fact that Powertechs are the flavor of the month and you're displeased with the performance on your Mercenary.

 

I play a Sorcerer, a Mercenary and an Operative, so no I don't have an OP class, however I know how to to play them to make up for their shortcomings. I've asked you three times now I believe since it seems you're basing this all on the idea that Powertechs are the flavor of the month. If your dream were to come true and Bioware allowed Advanced Class Respecs before the next major patch update, and you respecced to Powertech, however 1.4 hits and they are severely nerfed, would you come back here, make another thread, and demand for Class respecs i.e Bounty Hunter to Imperial Agent?

[CorellianWannabe]

NO.

 

Its a ridiculous request. Please let me change the very core of my character into something completely different. Yes you can, right after Sages get to wear heavy armor and dual wield sabers.

 

So if the very core of your character is healing switching to mastery of throwing trash is ok?

 

Can you explain why bounty hunters can't manage to carry 2 pistols and a blade? Or why smugglers with 2 pistols can't figure out how to make stealth equipment work?

[CorellianWannabe]

None of those things define a class.. Sorry..

 

Mage Vs. Warlock..

 

Same armor.. Cloth..

Same gear.... 100% the same gear.. There is no difference in what a mage and warlock can wear..

Same energy.. Mana

Same stat requairements... Spellpower, crit, haste, and other stats that effect casters..

Same weapons.. Any casting weapon will do.. Staves and daggers and wands..

Same story... As long as same race is chosen.. Story is based on race not class in WOW..

Same quests.. Baby areas determined by race.. After that all the same quests can be done to lvl 85..

Share a fire tree... One is called fire and the other called destruction.. Mostly same skills under a different name..

Same roles.. Caster ranged DPS only..

 

In fact a destro lock is often refered to as a fire mage..

 

Still reguarded as different classes..

 

Have a nice day..

 

Odd that you fail to manage fear, DoTs, and pets as warlock abilities

 

Please explain why shamans, paladins, and druids can manage to be so radically different within the same classes then. 2 druids can have completely different gear, different roles, different resources-and still be the same class.

[Kryzantine]

Slippery slope and false analogy arguments don't show anything.

 

But it's not a slippery slope argument OR a false analogy argument. It's called reductio ad absurdum, or "reduction to the absurd", and it is a very common form of argument. It's also very effective - it's the entire basis behind Stephen Colbert's brand of comedy, or The Onion's brand of comedy (or at least, it used to be). Look it up sometime.

 

But it shouldn't even apply here because the mere notion of switching ACs is horribly absurd in itself. Say you wanted to switch from a Guardian to a Sentinel. Your character would literally become stark naked in the middle of the Republic Fleet, as all your heavy armor is now useless on you. Now say you wanted to switch from a Sniper to an Operative for the heals. On top of reconfiguring, ooh, essentially your entire interface to adjust from cover-based ranged combat to melee combat, stealth and healing, you realize that you have absolutely no useful measure of alacrity, something that an operative/scoundrel needs to heal remotely effectively (not even healing, just energy management at that point with the increased speed of Diagnostic Scan). Oh, and your main weapon is now junk, since Ops use Blaster Rifles and not Sniper Rifles. That's just gear limitations. Never mind that you haven't had the countless hours of preparation that made you slightly more effective than the guy across from you, who also had countless hours of preparation on him. You're asking to be turned to a baby in a man's body, because you're switching from one set of tools to another. It's the difference between driving a drag racer and a rally car.

 

The sad part is, every class has a shared skill tree with their other Advanced Class, not a perfect match because of core mechanics, but really close enough, to ensure that people can still experience that hybrid of sorts. It's also quite useful for PvP.

 

If Mercs are terrible at PvP at the moment, well, that's the problem Bioware needs to solve, and I would wholeheartedly get behind that. But switching ACs is simply absurd. I had trouble switching between specs on my Sent (Combat to Watchman, and I really do enjoy both trees, but I did need a bit of time to get used to using the other half of my Sentinel skills), I couldn't imagine switching from a Sentinel to a Guardian. Odds are, by the time you learn your new class (which, by the way, have their own problems too), your original class will have been buffed. And you will be stuck holding the pieces.

 

Oh, and you'll have to pick up all the new scoundrels/guardians/ops/jugs who switched from their pure damage classes just to get into Group Finder queues faster.

[CorellianWannabe]

Exactly! People shouldn't have to live with decisions they make. This is a game, I should be able to just swipe my debit card and have anything I want. "Permanent decisions" are so Pokemon... It's not like we're asking to change most of our skillset over to another set or anything. We just want to change ACs. I mean, I think we should have the option to change regular class too, though.

 

But, my big problem with this is that I only do PvP, but I want to start doing raids. I want to change my War Hero gear over to Campaign. It's the same thing. I just don't have the time to go grind raids and stuff to re-gear. I just want to switch it over when I change my character.

 

So you never hit Esc in conversations right? And you're totally against respecs since talent point allocations should be a permanent choice-it's not like army medics just flip-flop between heavy ordnance and medicine on a whim.

 

I presume you would have fought for companion death to stay in the game as well-talk about permanent choice. Odd that BW caved on that if they're all about choices mattering.

[CorellianWannabe]

Love how the word "fanboy" is shoved around as easily as you do. The whole world is filled with people who may disagree with topics you agree with. They are called people with opinions, not petty insults such as fanboys and drones.

 

You aren't forced to choose your Advanced Class. The forums and many other websites have tons of information regarding the advanced classes in order to help make a better decision. It's what many people do, it's how people choose classes based on their playstyle. You're also basing your desire based on basically 'Flavor of the month'. You shouldn't be choosing a class because it's OP, you should be choosing it because it's what you like, not because 20,000 other players are rolling it.

 

I play a Sorc, considered squishy and sloppy in PVP, I play it efficiently and do as good as a Marauder. Operative DPS is viable as well, Lethality snipers are amazing when played right, Darkness assassins great in their own way. The list goes on.

 

Stop basing this on "bad luck". You chose the class you're stuck with it. With every major patch comes major buffs and nerfs. No one ever knows who's class will strike lucky. So your point is moot.

 

So by your logic there are websites with talent calculators, so no respecs are ever needed. You're cool with that right? Hell if the gameplay is changed players can adapt-why should BW refund talent points due to a massive change in the trees? You think you spent a point wrong? Reroll-it worked for Diablo 2 for almost a decade.

[CorellianWannabe]

You apparently don't understand debate.

 

It shows how ridiculous something is by expanding it a little farther. Honestly, if we're going to start asking for AC respecs, we should start asking for Race, Faction, and PvP/PvE respecs. There isn't a difference there. But for some reason, only asking for AC respecs is okay.

 

Sounds good to me-you want to be green instead of blue why should you have to pay millions of credits for it? If it mattered to the vaunted 'story' it wouldn't have been a legacy option-since npcs don't care if the Jedi in front of them is a chiss or a miraluka it might as well have been open from the start. Is the Trooper story suddenly more magical if I'm playing a rattataki instead of a zabrak?

 

Faction switch? Might as well-just convert the affection between the mirrored companions. If you don't have them yet the game can keep it stored.

 

PVP gear? An abomination to start with. Get rid of expertise and let raiders whine about how pvpers didn't 'earn' their gear. Players need to store multiple sets of gear because BW can't figure out how to do anything without logging into WoW.

[CorellianWannabe]

WTH do you care about your 94 lazy-*** valour levells anyways? It's good for absolutely nothing. I have a 90, an almost 80 and a 70, so what?

 

And how on earth did you spend 90+ valour levels playing the same toon, with all this gear, that you ONLY NOW REALIZE YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY? What kind of genius does that?

 

Seriously, Mr. Entitlement... reroll and get over it, or get out. MMOG's are apparently not for you.

 

It's tools like this, people who cant accept the consequences of their choices, that got the RP part of this RPG so watered down, the only thing it has in common with a classic BW game is the (now utterly meaningless) conversation wheel.

 

Apparently your spec hasn't been gutted by BW yet-just wait, the dartboard has to hit yours sooner or later (unless it's marauder).

[CorellianWannabe]

I hope not.

 

It would be nice if --just for once-- people actually noticed that the game said your choice would be permanent, and actually tried to deal with that as if they were mature adults, rather than insisting that the world adapt to their petty desires.

 

Think of it as a life-lesson moment. A chance to practice being an adult.

 

 

So endless swapping between combat medic and heavy ordnance, cool. Wanting to drop the giant gun and grab a vibroblade-you're an immature child. Odd that a soldier can't carry both weapons- and why aren't troopers all taught at least basic first aid as well as hand-to-hand.

 

Makes me wonder why the characters in the trailers get to cheat (Jedi dual-wielding with a double-bladed saber, Knights with Consular padawans, trooopers with big guns AND knives-if BW lets them cheat why not the players?)

 

You want companion death back too, right? Bioware tried that 'be a mature adult' bit and apparently players aren't.

[CorellianWannabe]

Yes the same arbitrary barrier between races. The same arbitrary barrier between factions. You say this cause you must think arbitrary means "I don't like it". Just because I don't like cheese doesn't mean when crackdonald's puts it on a double quarter pounder with cheese that their decision to do so was arbitrary.

 

No, the race barrier is dropped by running the hamster wheel to level to 50 or running it for credits to buy the unlock. Why it wasn't available at start makes no in-game sense, as Satele doesn't care if you're a Miraluka or a Rattataki.

[leathfuil]

But it's not a slippery slope argument OR a false analogy argument. It's called reductio ad absurdum, or "reduction to the absurd", and it is a very common form of argument. It's also very effective - it's the entire basis behind Stephen Colbert's brand of comedy, or The Onion's brand of comedy (or at least, it used to be). Look it up sometime.

 

I know what reduction ad absurdum is, and that argument wasn't it. Reductio is only valid when it actually addresses the points made by the argument it is supposed to be reducing; when used poorly, as in this case, it's only a set-up to create a straw man argument.

 

So get off your snotty horse.

[Mojobrandt]

So by your logic there are websites with talent calculators, so no respecs are ever needed. You're cool with that right? Hell if the gameplay is changed players can adapt-why should BW refund talent points due to a massive change in the trees? You think you spent a point wrong? Reroll-it worked for Diablo 2 for almost a decade.

 

I'm pretty sure thats not at all what he is saying. You're just whining because your class right now got hit with a nerf. DEAL WITH IT. THIS IS AN MMO! It happens ALL THE TIME.

 

It seems like you only want AC's because your class was so great when you picked it, it got a nerf and now you're crying because you get killed. Just think, next update, you might get better!

 

What the poster was talking about is that, if you're argument is that at lvl 10 you don't know enough to pick your class, that there is plenty of advice out there by people who are playing it in end game. So, if you don't think you can pick, you can easily read the forums. He's not talking at all about calculators, etc, he's talking about being an intelligent, resourceful player. His point is very valid for one of the arguments that you've made.

[CorellianWannabe]

I'm pretty sure thats not at all what he is saying. You're just whining because your class right now got hit with a nerf. DEAL WITH IT. THIS IS AN MMO! It happens ALL THE TIME.

 

It seems like you only want AC's because your class was so great when you picked it, it got a nerf and now you're crying because you get killed. Just think, next update, you might get better!

 

What the poster was talking about is that, if you're argument is that at lvl 10 you don't know enough to pick your class, that there is plenty of advice out there by people who are playing it in end game. So, if you don't think you can pick, you can easily read the forums. He's not talking at all about calculators, etc, he's talking about being an intelligent, resourceful player. His point is very valid for one of the arguments that you've made.

 

Actually I simply refuse to play out the same story just because I was vaguely curious about the other spec. Play the other faction's story is not an answer to that-maybe for my legacy I want them all on the same faction.

 

Being an intelligent resourceful player means going to torhead and planning out a talent spread before you spend points. That way you have no need for talent respecs, right?

 

By your words players should research enough to know how the specs play (even though you have no idea how stealth will work after the starter planet because you never got to try for example), but expecting them to read about the talents before spending them is just too much to expect.

 

Why do players need talent respecs anyway? Because of nerfs? Boo hoo-deal with it. That's the correct reply, isn't it? Because of pvp? Pvp with one character and raid with another-not hard apparently to level another one.

Edited August 12, 2012 by CorellianWannabe

[Russkiier]

Why is rerolling such a bad thing. Because you got to 90+ valor before you realized you hate your class? Thats not Bioware's fault. If they nerfed Mercs into the ground (i have no idea, dont play one) then maybe you should look at the forums and see how other players are dealing with the nerf. I remember when sorcs got nerfed (1.2 i think, maybe 1.3) and everybody felt like the damn sky was falling, but after looking at the forums, I realized I could still be viable. Then I ran HM FPs and learned how to tweak my rotation. Do the same with PvP!

 

And don't start with the "arbitrary" argument. EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS ARBITRARY. Everything is designed by the developers to act a certain way (not including bugs). Every restriction in this game is because the developers programmed it like that. That doesn't mean it is invalid. It just is the way that it is. Why do sith have to hit enemies more than once with a lightsaber? Why can't I decapitate people in combat? Because thats the way it is. It shouldn't change just because it is arbitrary.

 

Please no AC respecs, or at least make it expensive $50+