Trollokdamus Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) First of all i'm warning you guys that there will be some SI and Republic Corellia story spoilers in my post. There is a thing about the Dark Council members i can't understand. The entire Chapters 2 and 3 of the SI class story are all about collecting enough power to defeat Darth Thanaton. To do so, SI achieves something really outstanding, becoming the first being who has ever managed to bind 3 (4) spirits simultaneously, as well as reshape his own body and mind in order to contain such a power. All those crazy stuff was done for SI just to become a match for Thanaton, a newest Dark Council member. On the other hand, we have 3 other Dark Council members on Corellia - Darth Acharon, Darth Hadra and Darth Decimus. All of them were easily killed, one by one, by a single Republic character who was completely unprepared for such a feat. Well, it's hard but i kind of can imagine a Consular doing it, maybe even a Knight. But a Trooper? A Smuggler?! So my point is, if even a Smuggler can single-handedly kill 3 Dark Council members in a row without any preparations, what's the point in the SI story? I just don't get it. Edited August 4, 2012 by Trollokdamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicfear Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 It is implied that for every non-class storyline, one of each class went in a group of four. Addittionally, the sith warrior goes there to pick up ANOTHER dark council member to aid them in their mission from servants one and two. a dark council member who's command center was in republic held territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 It is implied that for every non-class storyline, one of each class went in a group of four. Can you elaborate please? I'm not sure i understood what you mean here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Path-x Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Can you elaborate please? I'm not sure i understood what you mean here. What he was trying to say is that every mission/quest or storyline that is not class specific is assumed to be done by all four class characters together (that is knight, consular, trooper and smuggler for republic quests). While I am not sure if that classifies also for planetary storyline, but I am sure it applies for flashpoints. For example it is assumed that the boarding party that defeated Malgus was composed by each of the four class characters. Edited August 4, 2012 by Path-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) What he was trying to say is that every mission/quest or storyline that is not class specific is assumed to be done by all four class characters together (that is knight, consular, trooper and smuggler for republic quests). While I am not sure if that classifies also for planetary storyline, but I am sure it applies for flashpoints. For example it is assumed that the boarding party that defeated Malgus was composed by each of the four class characters. For flashpoints i agree as we are often asked to assemble a "strike team" by Satele/Malgus. Not in every case but still. But on planets, at least during the main planetary storylines, i'm pretty sure that questgivers refer to us as single persons, not a team of four people. I'd like to add one more thing. A powerful Sith Lord can Force Choke multiple targets at a time without even raising his hand (according to what Lord Scourge and Darth Tormen did). So logically there is absolutely no way for even a group of non-force users to even touch a member of the Dark Council if nothing distracts him. Their only chance may be a surprise attack, but before killing each of the Darths we had a convo... Edited August 4, 2012 by Trollokdamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Vicente Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) For flashpoints i agree as we are often asked to assemble a "strike team" by Satele/Malgus. Not in every case but still. But on planets, at least during the main planetary storylines, i'm pretty sure that questgivers refer to us as single persons, not a team of four people. I'd like to add one more thing. A powerful Sith Lord can Force Choke multiple targets at a time without even raising his hand (according to what Lord Scourge and Darth Tormen did). So logically there is absolutely no way for even a group of non-force users to even touch a member of the Dark Council if nothing distracts him. Their only chance may be a surprise attack, but before killing each of the Darths we had a convo... They refer to you as an individual when you solo it because you're soloing it and the game recognizes it, just like Flashpoints do when you go back (usually over leveled) and solo them. However, the canon storylines have all four player class characters doing it together, and it acknowledges you when you group, as well. Edited August 4, 2012 by Darth_Vicente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) First of all i'm warning you guys that there will be some SI and Republic Corellia story spoilers in my post. There is a thing about the Dark Council members i can't understand. The entire Chapters 2 and 3 of the SI class story are all about collecting enough power to defeat Darth Thanaton. To do so, SI achieves something really outstanding, becoming the first being who has ever managed to bind 3 (4) spirits simultaneously, as well as reshape his own body and mind in order to contain such a power. All those crazy stuff was done for SI just to become a match for Thanaton, a newest Dark Council member. On the other hand, we have 3 other Dark Council members on Corellia - Darth Acharon, Darth Hadra and Darth Decimus. All of them were easily killed, one by one, by a single Republic character who was completely unprepared for such a feat. Well, it's hard but i kind of can imagine a Consular doing it, maybe even a Knight. But a Trooper? A Smuggler?! So my point is, if even a Smuggler can single-handedly kill 3 Dark Council members in a row without any preparations, what's the point in the SI story? I just don't get it. Well, storywise you should look at it this way: Trooper: The 3 Dark Council members were killed by Havoc Squad, a 6 man elite military unit, the best in the entire republic. (The game only allows one companion, but the Trooper story is about Havoc Squad. Not the Trooper and some supporting characters like most other stories most of the time.) Havoc squad took 3 chapters to become that good. It took more time for them than for the Inquisitor. Smuggler: Luck. In 99 out of 100 tries he would have died against the DC members, especially against Darth Decimus. But this time he got lucky. (It would be interesting to hear what the Sith said to him. I wouldn't be surprised if the unserestimated him.) Edit: More explanation on the Smuggler As a Sith, you are challanged by a lot of different people. Other Sith's, but you also have fought soldiers in your life. these are things you know. You have learned to counter Force users and also professionals. You don't have to fight civilians, they fear the Sith too much to even try. But suddenly there is this foolhardy smuggler who wants to give it a try. He doesn't plan carefully, so you can't read his mind and anticipate his moves. He trusts his instincts, but they are non-Force instincts, so they are difficult to predict. And he fights with methodes you never saw before. He takes cover, and when you come he suddenly pulls out a shotgun (can't counter with lightsaber) and shoots you in the face. As a Sith you survive of course, and he just kicks you in the nuts. So the Smuggler is gambling on the fact that Dark Council members have never fight smugglers. The Inquisitor on the other hand would be stupid to assume Darth Thanaton would have never fought an Inquisitor. Edited August 4, 2012 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Path-x Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) For flashpoints i agree as we are often asked to assemble a "strike team" by Satele/Malgus. Not in every case but still. But on planets, at least during the main planetary storylines, i'm pretty sure that questgivers refer to us as single persons, not a team of four people. Look, even for the planetary storylines it is the only logical way that all four characters do it. Otherwise how will they ever make the whole thing canon in a way that it will make sense. It is not like there were four Darth Decimus and each class character defeated one of them... Edited August 4, 2012 by Path-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Look, even for the planetary storylines it is the only logical way that all four characters do it. Otherwise how will they ever make the whole thing canon in a way that it will make sense. It is not like there were four Darth Decimus and each class character defeated one of them... What makes the most sense is that the canon completers of the class storylines did not canonically complete the flashpoints, ops, world arcs, or other side quests. Truthfully I doubt this is soemthing which will ever really come up, but for the most part the class storylines are urgent situations which do not occur concurrently. It makes no sense for the class characters to sit around waiting for the other class characters to arrive on the planet, and I think it makes more sense for the various non-class quests to be completed by members of the factions other than the 8 classes because the armies for the two sides are larger than just 8 characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperLPN Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) I'm thinkin some quest's were given to this guy, some to this guy, some to this guy, but the main planetary quest line was all given to this guy. That's my theory. Of course, the order of who gets what quests changes though. Edited August 4, 2012 by TrooperLPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperLPN Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Well, storywise you should look at it this way: Trooper: The 3 Dark Council members were killed by Havoc Squad, a 6 man elite military unit, the best in the entire republic. (The game only allows one companion, but the Trooper story is about Havoc Squad. Not the Trooper and some supporting characters like most other stories most of the time.) Havoc squad took 3 chapters to become that good. It took more time for them than for the Inquisitor. Smuggler: Luck. In 99 out of 100 tries he would have died against the DC members, especially against Darth Decimus. But this time he got lucky. (It would be interesting to hear what the Sith said to him. I wouldn't be surprised if the unserestimated him.) Edit: More explanation on the Smuggler As a Sith, you are challanged by a lot of different people. Other Sith's, but you also have fought soldiers in your life. these are things you know. You have learned to counter Force users and also professionals. You don't have to fight civilians, they fear the Sith too much to even try. But suddenly there is this foolhardy smuggler who wants to give it a try. He doesn't plan carefully, so you can't read his mind and anticipate his moves. He trusts his instincts, but they are non-Force instincts, so they are difficult to predict. And he fights with methodes you never saw before. He takes cover, and when you come he suddenly pulls out a shotgun (can't counter with lightsaber) and shoots you in the face. As a Sith you survive of course, and he just kicks you in the nuts. So the Smuggler is gambling on the fact that Dark Council members have never fight smugglers. The Inquisitor on the other hand would be stupid to assume Darth Thanaton would have never fought an Inquisitor. The only time Havoc ever even mentions going out as a team is during chapter finales, they're special forces, they're made to be flexible, i.e. only one or two going out at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhsokaTanorules Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Keep in mind those smugglers and troopers are high enough level to be resourceful, tough and strong willed. They probably make all their saving throws. After all in the Bounty Hunter storyline you automatically get to resist force persuasion and that is only end of Ch1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurtzello Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The canon storylines have all four player class characters doing it together. Source? (it's not that I dislike your statement, I just wish to see an official confirmation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatlocker Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 First of all i'm warning you guys that there will be some SI and Republic Corellia story spoilers in my post. There is a thing about the Dark Council members i can't understand. The entire Chapters 2 and 3 of the SI class story are all about collecting enough power to defeat Darth Thanaton. To do so, SI achieves something really outstanding, becoming the first being who has ever managed to bind 3 (4) spirits simultaneously, as well as reshape his own body and mind in order to contain such a power. All those crazy stuff was done for SI just to become a match for Thanaton, a newest Dark Council member. On the other hand, we have 3 other Dark Council members on Corellia - Darth Acharon, Darth Hadra and Darth Decimus. All of them were easily killed, one by one, by a single Republic character who was completely unprepared for such a feat. Well, it's hard but i kind of can imagine a Consular doing it, maybe even a Knight. But a Trooper? A Smuggler?! So my point is, if even a Smuggler can single-handedly kill 3 Dark Council members in a row without any preparations, what's the point in the SI story? I just don't get it. The smuggler has training in fighting style that the dark council members don't even think off. No one expects a kick to the crotch till it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreksOrden Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 So my point is, if even a Smuggler can single-handedly kill 3 Dark Council members in a row without any preparations, what's the point in the SI story? I just don't get it. simple smugglers the ****** that could pull that kind of thing off. Im sure the dark council members thought the same that they couldnt possibly lose to some petty criminal. They open up with force leap and smuggler counters with blaster shot in the face.:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreksOrden Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Besides even if the smuggler got cornered guss would electro stun the DC member followed by a horrible thrashing from akaavis electrostaff, then bowdarr would throw the poor guy into a wall so hard that the DC member actually goes through the wall where corso and risha are waiting with the smuggler blasters at the ready. a captain is only as good as his crew. Edited August 4, 2012 by DreksOrden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The only time Havoc ever even mentions going out as a team is during chapter finales, they're special forces, they're made to be flexible, i.e. only one or two going out at a time. Yeah, but I would still say it's more accurate to say Havoc Squad killed the DC members, not "a trooper", even if only two members were directly involved in the killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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