HammersteinSW Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Oh god, what is Hickman doing on the SWTOR team...Bad WAR memories surface... Rich Vogel, Jeff Hickman....it's as if they initially hired every producer who was ever involved with a failed mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Being that I have only played DDO very, very breifly, and by the sound of it, you have had as little experience with Lotro, is it possible that drop rates for stat tomes are notably different between games then? As I said myself, they are available in game, however the idea that I've only seen 3 drop in the entire time since f2p launched (let alone actually won the rolls on) makes me feel like you were never realistically supposed to acquire them in-game. Also, the stat boosts are not as insignificant as you might think. Sure, you've got 2000+ (in top gear) of your main stat, so another 70 won't seem like much (although a lot of stats scale linearly, so it's still nice). But on your off stats it's a substancial incease. Any class is going to want that extra 210-350 morale, and 210 power, the ICMR and ICPR. The small mitigation boosts. The extra crit. The cumulative effect of everyone in the raid having them, and everyone in the raid not having them, is very noticable. While raid content is probably accessible and completable without them and so they're not "technically" pay-to-win, I'd still believe they are in the store as pay-to-be-better style items. Also, don't forget that PvP exists. Such things could be the difference between a win and a loss. I'm not having a go, or trying to be insulting. In the build up to Lotro F2P, I used to be you (well, think like you). I used to think "You know what, they're telling me it'll be cosmetic only, and that NOTHING in the store will make me better, so I'll believe them" I also took a look at the DDO store and was more or less satisfied that it was like they were saying it would be. Perhaps experience has led me to be more cynical than I need to be, but I'd rather be cynical with the chance to be proven wrong than optimistic with the chance for disappointment. Again! Of course the store is Pay-to-be-better. That is part of the appeal. The point is to make money, so of course stuff in the store will give you an edge. But you don't NEED it to WIN. THAT is the point. Those that want it can get it, and those that dont want it dont need it. Its the entire reason why the model works. Like I said before, if they were to do something like skill boosts in PvP, THEN there is a problem - that would be a direct pay-2 win scenario. But advantages in PvE is hardly Pay2 win, when you can beat everything without the store at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isharel Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Going F2P with a hybrid model? Hate to break it to you champs, but this is -the- F2P model. Stop using big words to make this look like a good thing. Furthermore, taking examples from SOE? Really? You think your player base is ensured when you say that? Let me answer that. No, we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Confirmed that F2P will get no access to forums...and thank God on that one.. Yeah keep those dirty freebies in their place, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well the answer to this question is a bit more PR spin... quote from the article: "Are they equipped to meet a seemingly more aggressive content push? Their answer was simple: any shift in staff they've made over the past few months has been to sort of rebuild the studio for this new F2P venture. They have more focused content teams in place now than they did before, and they're more confident now that they can meet their goals with this altered approach." We all want "new content". But the customers version of new content is things like FPs, OPs, WZs. This quote shows that their "new content" is things like new companions, social armors, vanity pets, and other F2P venture items. They said from the begining that they had focused teams for each aspect of the game. They said they were able to do that because of the huge team they had that they were keeping even after launch. This was touted as the first MMO to do so. I will reread the article but I remember reading content being warzones/ops and world events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Of course the store is Pay-to-be-better. That is part of the appeal. The point is to make money, so of course stuff in the store will give you an edge. But you don't NEED it to WIN. THAT is the point. Those that want it can get it, and those that dont want it dont need it. Its the entire reason why the model works. Like I said before, if they were to do something like skill boosts in PvP, THEN there is a problem - that would be a direct pay-2 win scenario. But advantages in PvE is hardly Pay2 win, when you can beat everything without the store at all. Tell that to the guy that missed the "Ops Team" by 100 DPS, because he is the only one not to have bought the "hardly P2W advantages". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leathfuil Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Of course the store is Pay-to-be-better. That is part of the appeal. The point is to make money, so of course stuff in the store will give you an edge. But you don't NEED it to WIN. THAT is the point. Those that want it can get it, and those that dont want it dont need it. Its the entire reason why the model works. Like I said before, if they were to do something like skill boosts in PvP, THEN there is a problem - that would be a direct pay-2 win scenario. But advantages in PvE is hardly Pay2 win, when you can beat everything without the store at all. Paying for an advantage is the definition of pay-to-win. Among reasonable people, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmanarl Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Great interview. Wish I wouldn't have read the poisonous comments in the rest of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I have to laugh at all the people having a hissy fit btw - DDO has a very similar model in place, and its certainly not Pay2Win. But I also know people who want to be ignorant and lash out can't be reasoned with... DDo sucked before f2p , it still sucks now, only with a much much worse community, yeah great game and model you got there.../sarcasm shall we continue with examples? DCUO = botter/glitcher/hacker heaven with an even *******r community what do you thinks gonna happen here? yes im throwing a hissy fit...because bioware screwed me all these months with monthlys to now give 90% of what ive been paying for for free to everyone, i have the right to be pissed about it, and since i am a PAYING customer with accss to these boards, i will express my discontent with their decision as much as i see fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Paying for an advantage is the definition of pay-to-win. Among reasonable people, at any rate. This. ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 DDo sucked before f2p , it still sucks now, only with a much much worse community, yeah great game and model you got there.../sarcasm shall we continue with examples? DCUO = botter/glitcher/hacker heaven with an even *******r community what do you thinks gonna happen here? yes im throwing a hissy fit...because bioware screwed me all these months with monthlys to now give 90% of what ive been paying for for free to everyone, i have the right to be pissed about it, and since i am a PAYING customer with accss to these boards, i will express my discontent with their decision as much as i see fit DDO has the best, most mature community out there - I can see why you hate it, because they have little tolerance for brats like you. And regardless of what you think of the game, the business model worked and saved that game - they just put out a new expansion too. So the model has been profitable for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Why do I need cartel coins at all? To purchase things my sub apparently doesn't cover. IE: there will be limits/restrictions to what the sub fee covers, where previously the sub fee covered EVERYTHING (including fluff). If you don't understand what I'm saying, I can't explain it any better for you. umm you need the coins for cosmetic items ie pets, speeders, and other fluff like that. It's really not that hard to figure out. I'm sure they will add social gear as well or maybe orange gear with out mods. I really don't understand how you are having a hard time with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Tell that to the guy that missed the "Ops Team" by 100 DPS, because he is the only one not to have bought the "hardly P2W advantages". Stat bonuses = P2W Grind reduction bonuses = leisure items This here is where the line is usually drawn for items in a cash shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 DDO has the best, most mature community out there - I can see why you hate it, because they have little tolerance for brats like you. And regardless of what you think of the game, the business model worked and saved that game - they just put out a new expansion too. So the model has been profitable for them. couldn't have said it better my self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Paying for an advantage is the definition of pay-to-win. Among reasonable people, at any rate. No, only among people who are the jealous sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Why do I need cartel coins at all? To purchase things my sub apparently doesn't cover. IE: there will be limits/restrictions to what the sub fee covers, where previously the sub fee covered EVERYTHING (including fluff). If you don't understand what I'm saying, I can't explain it any better for you. So you think your sub should also include unlimited points in the store? Wow. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnis Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 umm you need the coins for cosmetic items ie pets, speeders, and other fluff like that. It's really not that hard to figure out. I'm sure they will add social gear as well or maybe orange gear with out mods. I really don't understand how you are having a hard time with this. Dear God. What colour is the sky in your world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asbalana Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Eh whatever brings in the big cash will find it's way into the store. If that ends up being "p2w" items, then that's what will happen. See, that's what worries me about the design focus here - it's gone from "making a good game people want to play" to "well, this game isn't doing so well, let's fleece players for as much money as we can while it lasts". Dev time will be spent on whatever produces the most profit. By extension, anything that costs too much to make will be less desirable in that model, than things that require little time and effort to make. Fully voiced, storytelling in an MMO is expensive to make, game store items generally are not. What are they going to spend the dev time on? Cheap and easy - that's what. This is why f2p titles go bad and end up sucking. I guess this is the second (server mergers - oops character transfers being the first) indication that the game is dying and quickly so. I thought that EA has said that the game (subscription model) could be profitable at 500,000 subs. So where are we now, where does EA see the game heading, and why the change to f2p? I have to shake my head. Star Wars is one of the most popular and recognizabel IPs of all time and the game was developed with a budget that eclipsed any other mmo and yet f2p is coming after only a little over seven months on the market. To me, the game is dying and for good reason. It was potentially a great product that EA/BW managed to bring forward as broken and flawed to an extreme degree. I conclude that the plan now is to keep it limping along with no real improvement or fixes and suck as much cash out as possilble before it dies. Perhaps the concept is that some sub fees will continue to come in from die hard fans and people who play for free will be less demanding of quality and eventually get hooked enough to spend some money in the company store. Sad, so very very very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandana_ Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Obsidian is developing SouthPark MMO. Laughable. Don't laugh. it may still prove more successful than SW:TOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 DDO has the best, most mature community out there - I can see why you hate it, because they have little tolerance for brats like you. And regardless of what you think of the game, the business model worked and saved that game - they just put out a new expansion too. So the model has been profitable for them. thats why you are still playing it and not trolling the swtor forums right? great community you have there! not to mention the so called "free content" amounts to nothing more than cash shop miscellaneous crap , and the so called content is nothing more than rehashed recycled grindy crap of mediocre production values, if that appeals to you , then more power to you, but i am 99% sure we will NOT get the so called glorified constant updates...we havent gotten them here so far, what makes you think well get them any faster now? they can spin it like "we have dedicated teams for content now" as much as you like, fact is , theres going to be less people working on content and more working on pushing RMT;s , ive seen it in EVERY f2p game , lotro, ddo, dcuo, in short, ive yet to see a f2p game that hastn become pay2win eventually, it always trickles in , item by item Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 umm you need the coins for cosmetic items ie pets, speeders, and other fluff like that. It's really not that hard to figure out. I'm sure they will add social gear as well or maybe orange gear with out mods. I really don't understand how you are having a hard time with this. thats what ALL f2p games have said in the past, ive yet to see one live up to that promise for more than a couple of months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So you think your sub should also include unlimited points in the store? Wow. lol My sub currently pays for everything the game has to offer, why would I want it suddenly not to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 umm you need the coins for cosmetic items ie pets, speeders, and other fluff like that. It's really not that hard to figure out. I'm sure they will add social gear as well or maybe orange gear with out mods. I really don't understand how you are having a hard time with this. http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6467 ...specialty items that allow you to customize and equip your character cosmetically... Under the "old" system, we ALL had access to EVERYTHING. Also, it was really funny how the game shipped without a way to alter cosmetics. And there were voices claiming the gear is a bit ugly and pulling mods was a bit expensive; did I mention Campaign gear, which, up to date, is the ONLY PvE set to have bonus to armoring? Under the "new" system.. we get to shell real cash to get `em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 My sub currently pays for everything the game has to offer, why would I want it suddenly not to? and if you feel that everything the game has to offer, excluding the fluff items in the store, is not worth the subscription. Then by all means, you should stop paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 My sub currently pays for everything the game has to offer, why would I want it suddenly not to? Just shows how some people have this whole entitlement thing going. Hope you have fun in your next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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