Jhaelis Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I prefer RP-PVE over RP-PVP. Player conflict isn't the main element in my style of roleplay. I prefer character development and exploration. I've just found the PvP conflict to more a hindrance to my play style than a benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihlrath Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've played on both types on WoW and Rift. I enjoyed both pretty much the same. Both have pros and cons. Here I'm on a RP PVE server simply because I wanted to play through to level 50, learn the game, develop a character, roleplay, and not have to really worry much about looking over my shoulder too much or the odd ganker or corpse camper now and then. But I do enjoy a good pvp fight as much as the next person. Most rper's in my experience are pretty cool folks be it PVE or PVP server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpookshow Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 RP-PVP all the way for me. I can't stand emote fighting. There is a combat system built into the game for a reason! I've played on RP-PVE servers before, and the non-RP folks still found ways to grief RPers without being able to gank. I know some people love to emote fight and such, but that's just not for me. Hence why I am on Jung Ma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lianathon Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Can someone help me understand this. In my opinion Roleplaying is all about immersing yourself in the game world, feeling like you're part of it and that there's nothing unnatural stopping you from being who you want to be. So naturally I feel a PvP server, where the freedom of attacking whoever you want (on the opposite side) is present, is the best suited type of server for RP. Wouldn't the PvE mechanics break immersion? You're standing next to a player of your opposing faction with your lightsaber/blaster ready but simply can't touch the person because of some other-wordly intervention called "pvp-flag". To me that breaks the spell of being in a world of war, conflict and constant danger. On the other hand, I can understand the annoyance of people who are in the server NOT to RP and might try to destroy the experience for RP'ers which is easier to do in a PvP server. But really, to me that's an added danger of the world that can be easily "embedded" in the roleplay. So what is your stance on this? Why did you choose RP-PvE or RP-PvP? // Alkara Nelien Most Rpers aren't Simulationists which is what you are equating with Rpers. Simulationists want the "Real" Star Wars Galaxy experience, Narrativists would prefer to tell stories that have meaning and thus being ganked by some random punk isn't very popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealhdun Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I picked RP-PVE because the two RP-PVP servers were full. Now even my RP-PVE server is full and I am most likely re-rolling to the new one. I don't get why they didn't release a new RP-PVP server but with my luck they'll do that after I leveled up on my new server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 "Simulation" vs "narrative" is an interesting way to look at it, but to me "simulation" and "roleplay" are one and the same. The perfect roleplaying game would allow your character to do everything you can imagine doing. Rather than type "/emote jumps up and down" you would simply have an ability to make your character jump up and down. Rather than narrate about how you are going to save the city from the orc invasion, there should actually be an orc invasion which you can then attempt to save the city from. So "simulation" sounds like ideal roleplaying while "narrative" sounds like what you are forced to resort to when the game can't support what you are trying to do. We could also quibble over the definition of "roleplaying". In the context of gaming, I say roleplaying is when you have your character react to the environment around him as if both the character and the environment were real. Take, for example, the following scenario: We are both roleplayers and both of our companions die. Which is the best roleplay reaction to this event: a) You lament the tragic loss of your brave and true friend b) I click the button to revive my companion I'm sure there are roleplayers who think "a" is the better way to roleplay but by my definition, it's "b". My character (not just me, but my character) understands that neither he nor his companion can apparently die. There's always some droid that shows up to resurrect them. So there would be no sense getting worked up over it. Even if you wanted to play "hard mode" and never resurrect a companion who dies, my character would just think your character has gone crazy, since everyone knows it's really easy to resurrect your companion upon death. (Of course, if you wanted to dismiss them for being incompetent, with your character intentionally not bringing dead companions back even though he knows he can, then that would be a valid roleplay response.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddjobXL Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Most Rpers aren't Simulationists which is what you are equating with Rpers. Simulationists want the "Real" Star Wars Galaxy experience, Narrativists would prefer to tell stories that have meaning and thus being ganked by some random punk isn't very popular. I think many serious roleplayers are most definitely simulationists! We may not need every technical detail turned into some ornate and byzantine gameplay, like military simulationist rivet-counters, but we want things to look and feel as they should. And one of those elements, as a previous poster noted, is that actions have consequences. If PvP was more "realistic" it would mean 95% PvPers would tone it the hell down. We're talking permadeath, wounding and recovery times, realistic law enforcement or battlefield conditions as a context, etc. I've seen it in MUSHes and it does make people think before pew pewing and look at intrigue and diplomacy as realistic options rather than just jumping for guns and shooting every red dot on the scope. But PvP really comes down to pew pewing with little risk other than to one's ego. Roleplay is just a fun garnish, flavor text to make fights more interesting, on the side for those who indulge. And frankly permadeath and serious consquences wouldn't be fun for anyone in the long run. I've seen in those very same MUSHes populations of roleplayers decimated by Hatfield and McCoy feuds that not only drove off the players of slain characters but angered those who had important storylines and unfinished business tied up with them. You know how some fans of TV shows get pissed off when a writer kills off a favorite character? That happens too. But in this case they can gang up and "kill" the writer. So we're left with a choice of cartoon violence that's really just another kind of sporting event in disguise and asserting that's a meaningful option that somehow deepens roleplay or just avoiding it entirely and getting on with traditional consentual/cooperative roleplaying styles. I'd say that both approaches have merits but ultimately PvP does attract more hostile personalities and anti-RP nonroleplayers. So I go traditional. Edited December 21, 2011 by OddjobXL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uruz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 RP-PVP because the rest of the guild chose to be there. We did "vote" on it and most wanted to be on an RP-PVP server hoping "RP" would mean more a more mature player base. I've never rolled on a PVP server before so it'll be interesting to see how things go in open world areas. Hopefully Bioware will take griefing seriously as I have no desire to put up with the same bunny hopping l33t k1dd13s that plaque other MMO's. What I do find really odd - if we're at war, then why would we share a common area in Nar Shaddaa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddjobXL Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 And Huttball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fodigg Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 RP-PVP because the rest of the guild chose to be there. We did "vote" on it and most wanted to be on an RP-PVP server hoping "RP" would mean more a more mature player base. I've never rolled on a PVP server before so it'll be interesting to see how things go in open world areas. Hopefully Bioware will take griefing seriously as I have no desire to put up with the same bunny hopping l33t k1dd13s that plaque other MMO's. What I do find really odd - if we're at war, then why would we share a common area in Nar Shaddaa? That was indeed very odd. The Hutts must be powerful indeed to be able to enforce that. That was not the case when they first made PvP servers in beta, because I remember fighting there while trying to vendor some stuff. Honestly there's not much zone overlap in this game. I've bumped into exactly two enemies in a PvP zone so far and they both ignored me. Part of this I'm sure was because of the early start and therefore lower pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Well yeah. I feel like I should earn the right to play the character that I want to play. I don't want to be able to just up and say I'm an awesome and powerful dark lord of the Sith because I'm really good at pretending to be one. That feels phony, especially when we can actually DO evil things in this game. It's an interesting philosophy. I see roleplaying more like acting, and I don't feel that I have to be super-skilled with a sword to play a swashbuckling pirate on stage, or a dead-shot with a gun to play a successful old western gunslinger. But it's not acting, for you? Or the personality bit's only acting, but the skills aren't? I'm kinda confused where the line between fantasy and reality is drawn. But that brings me to another point - The skill in acting is the ability to act, not the ability to do whatever it is you're pretending to be able to do. And obviously the skills you use in PvP are not the same skills that your character has since none of us are actually force sensitive lightsaber-wielding jedi or sith. Please believe me, this isn't an attack. I'm just asking questions, trying to understand a little more of where RP-PVPers come from, since I find it a very foreign mindset that my skill in, well, anything (whether that's button pushing, number juggling, or taiwanese basket making) should determine my character's in-game power. Edited December 21, 2011 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBQpizza Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I play on an RP pve server and I do not RP. RP servers generally, in my opinion, have a more mature player base, and I don't do pvp servers becuase i like to have my pvp and pve seperate and on my terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuchessOfDork Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's an interesting philosophy. I see roleplaying more like acting, and I don't feel that I have to be super-skilled with a sword to play a swashbuckling pirate on stage, or a dead-shot with a gun to play a successful old western gunslinger. I guess I've become too annoyed with RPers that don't like to work for their reputation. See, I've been chat RPing since I was 13, in a Star Wars chat room, where I didn't know what we were doing was RPing. This community lasted for 8 YEARS. And this was the 90's! Every so often, someone would come in, claim to be another Dark Lord of the Sith, or a great Jedi Master, and we need to fear him, ect. They didn't earn it, they were just, "Here's my story, I'm big and bad. Do what I say, or you suck." They'd bring a posse who would agree, and you'd have to do what they say because they said it. They were okay RPers, but it felt like they claimed a reputation instead of earning it. After that, I did WoW for 5 years in an RP-PVP server. I loved the fact that, in this community, you have to put your money where your mouth is. Are you a big bad dude who can kick my *** and enforce his reputation? Prove it. If you can't prove it, I don't give a crap, and neither does anyone else. That being said, the story writing from this community was PHENOMINAL. AMAZING. We had the best RPers I've ever met, and I felt it was because the PVP community gave us boundries. Sometimes, boundries are great. I find that the boundries of PVP, especially in a place where there is good and evil, is refreshing. As an evil bad guy, I could take part in a story with some Jedi RPers, create a rivalry, and literally HUNT THEM DOWN. That is AWESOME, to me! And totally food for a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Preventing godmoding is one of the biggest and most compelling arguments that the PvP-RP community has to make. I completely see where you're coming from. I guess, to me, it's still a little different, and I'm back to the acting thing. Did Ian McDiarmid have to actually "be" a skilled fighter in order to have the Palpatine character intimidate the NPC played by a minor actor? No one said he didn't "Earn it".. Obviously, he earned the right to play Palpatine as a powerful character by virtue of his acting ability, not by virtue of his leet PvP skills. However, Palpatine isn't McDiarmid's character. He's George Lucas' character and that's where the disconnect and analogy ends, because Lucas decided how in-lore/mechanically powerful the character was going to be, in relation to everyone else. We have no overriding control like that in global RP, and so we're stuck with godmoders. But the issue is complex, because while PvP-RP prevents godmoders from spouting claims they can't back up, it also prevents talented roleplayers who have no PvP skills from playing powerful characters. It also encourages skilled PvP players who have zero roleplaying skills to "pretend" to be roleplaying uber powerful characters, when really, they have all the creativity and roleplaying ability of a dead tree frog. Godmoders in freeform -are- a persistent pain in the proverbial though, I'll grant you that. So far, the only thing I do when I find one, is simply to not RP with them again. While smacking a godmoder down in PvP has some appeal, I'd rather simply never interact with that player ever again. Life's too short for me to police the idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddjobXL Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Godmoders in freeform -are- a persistent pain in the proverbial though, I'll grant you that. So far, the only thing I do when I find one, is simply to not RP with them again. While smacking a godmoder down in PvP has some appeal, I'd rather simply never interact with that player ever again. Life's too short for me to police the idiots. This. There's no law saying you have to roleplay with everyone that claims to be a roleplayer. Roleplay is about having fun in the end. If someone making outlandish claims is messing with your good time just edit him out of your story. A good roleplayer has an internal editor called the brain. Things that don't work get sidelined. Things that work get serious attention. Some of those things are people. That doesn't mean to be rude or to complain about folks whose roleplaying you don't like. But you're not getting paid for this gig. If something isn't working for you just don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuchessOfDork Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 But the issue is complex, because while PvP-RP prevents godmoders from spouting claims they can't back up, it also prevents talented roleplayers who have no PvP skills from playing powerful characters. I suppose that's true, but I'd rather see a guy RPing an uber powerful Sith Lord actually work for his armor. There's tons of good writers around, and my favorite ones actually roleplay during their dungeons and raids. In there, they earn their bad-*** armor with other roleplayers who (rightfully) give them praise, all in character. I love that kinda stuff. And this is all coming from someone who spends countless hours roleplaying and writing fanfic that nobody will read. I'm not a huge PVPer, but I find that there's more excitement when I know I might be killed. Especially when I round up an ***** kicking posse to go after them. In character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I suppose that's true, but I'd rather see a guy RPing an uber powerful Sith Lord actually work for his armor. There's tons of good writers around, and my favorite ones actually roleplay during their dungeons and raids. In there, they earn their bad-*** armor with other roleplayers who (rightfully) give them praise, all in character. I love that kinda stuff. Well, that happens on PvE servers, too, honest We RP'd all the way through Esseles last night. We had a blast. I'm pretty much always IC However, I'll admit that I'm -selectively- IC. More about this below And this is all coming from someone who spends countless hours roleplaying and writing fanfic that nobody will read. I'm not a huge PVPer, but I find that there's more excitement when I know I might be killed. Especially when I round up an ***** kicking posse to go after them. In character. Hm. Maybe it's an immersion thing. I understand what you say about there being 'more excitement', except that I don't play TOR for excitement, I play to relax. I have plenty of excitement in my real life And I could round up a posse to go beat them ICly, sure, but for me, I'd rather not have to even bother. I just like doing my thing, RPing with my friends, and the people I choose to RP with. PvE servers are much more consensual RP than non-consensual, and for me, consent is a huge part of RP. You don't get to do anything to my characters unless I consent to it first. Does that mean I godmode? In a meta-way, perhaps, but my characters will fight and lose more than they fight and win, but only if I've consented to the loss beforehand, and because I know it will make for a more well-crafted story and character development, not just because someone wants to prove they have a "better" character than me, mechanically. You're right though. PvP is definitely more exciting and gets the blood flowing. Edited December 21, 2011 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuchessOfDork Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 but my characters will fight and lose more than they fight and win, but only if I've consented to the loss beforehand, and because I know it will make for a more well-crafted story and character development, not just because someone wants to prove they have a "better" character than me, mechanically. Yeah, I'd rather have the freedom of being able to have my ***** kicked, any time. It makes me think on my feet. How would my character react to being ambushed by 12 Jedi? She'd probably have a lot more hatred. Hatred makes me stronger. HATE JEDI BOOOO. Same if I were a Jedi. I'm suddenly beaten up by a bunch of random Sith, how is my poor little Jedi with a (modestly subdued) heart of gold going to react? I like thinking on my feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I guess perhaps the difference is the desire for less and more dynamic playing experiences, then? Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaffis Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 For a lot of people, PvP is intimidating. They come for the story and the very metered, balanced challenges that PvE provides, and then the roleplayers want to use that environment to build up their own stories, as well. Some of those roleplayers see value and opportunity to build up stories of conflict with their counterparts on the other side. Others don't, or have had experiences when trying to do this on a PvP server where the other side wasn't interested in the build up, and thus it cut into their roleplaying experience when they want to, I don't know, challenge and denounce their opponent before battle, and the other guy inconsiderately (from some perspectives) comes in and kills them instead of letting them type out their imprecations first. Furthermore, mixed communities of roleplayers are more likely to have the PvP-favorable members suffer without it than force the PvE ones to suffer with PvP. This means guilds of friends and whatnot are more likely to go with the PvE. Finally, and I suspect this is a very large factor in this game, particularly, the pre-launch guild system allowed guilds to select RP/PvE servers as their preferred server for deployment. RP/PVP servers were not an option for pre-launch guilds. As the pre-launch guild system offered very attractive features (automatically creating before leaving the starting planet, saving the 5k registration fee, automatic invites for one character per player, etc), it made it a very easy choice for people coming into the game with friends or communities to want to use. To do so meant being deployed to a RP/PvE server if you wanted an RP designation on your server, regardless of your PvE/PvP preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuchessOfDork Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I guess perhaps the difference is the desire for less and more dynamic playing experiences, then? Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I like having the sheet scared out of me. It also helps that my bros are a bunch of RPers that love to PVP, so hunting is a big part of our RP fun. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Yeah, that makes sense. I like having the sheet scared out of me. It also helps that my bros are a bunch of RPers that love to PVP, so hunting is a big part of our RP fun. :3 Yeah, I work at a pretty intellectually demanding developer and spatial database job, so the last thing I want when I come home is more "exctiement", hehe. I just wanna kick back, relax, do my thing and chill out with my buds watching bad guys fall over. ... but IC Edited December 21, 2011 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgirgis Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My personal opinion? I dont think I could RP on a PVE server, there is nothing I cant stand more than watching a jedi walk around korriban and not being able to touch him. Jung Ma server seems to be doing well so far, RP-PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuchessOfDork Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 My personal opinion? I dont think I could RP on a PVE server, there is nothing I cant stand more than watching a jedi walk around korriban and not being able to touch him. This too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiaden Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) I play on RPPVE and RPPVP...if its about realism, then RPPVP is no more so than RPPVE, last I checked, Jedi can speak to, and understand Sith, and others. You can also recognise a class by its armour....when does this occur? Until that happens, for me "RPPVP is more realistic" just doesnt cut it. Why do I prefer RPPVE to RPPVP? Playing other games on RPPVP and RPPVE servers, I see which suffers the fastest decline into PVE or PVP...that makes my choices, usually RPPVP becomes more PVP within a few months, whereas RPPVE tends to stay RP heavy for longer. I understand the gritty realism of sith in your face when questing, but I dont get why I cant communicate with them. If I cannot communicate, then why does it matter whether they kill me or not? At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the same server choice you would make if there was no RP in front of it, unfortunately, PVP and PVE elitists exist, regardless of whether they RP or not, and both claim superiority for their playstyle, when it is a choice, pure and simple. Edited December 23, 2011 by Rhiaden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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