The solution to the Quitter epidemic

[richardya]

People that are having fun don't quit. Putting folks through misery because of poor matchmaking is on the developer.

 

Well, the non-quitter gets stuck with bad players too. We start out matches with 4 players with <14K HP too.

We play it out.

It is a random queue and sometimes that is what you get. You change your goals. If its Voidstar I try and make a stand at each door. If its huttball and you are playing against an awesome team you try and not let them get six.

 

If you only have fun winning or close matches you will quit a lot and ruin the game for others, not that the quitter cares.

[Mournblood]

Everone is missing several common sense points here, which need to be pointed out and clarified.

 

You need to clarify whether you are talking about players who quit before the match has even started, such as players who hate HB and quit the moment they see it, or whether you are talking about players who quit after the match has already started. There is a big difference between the two, since those players who quit before the match has started aren't impacting anyone by doing so. Someone else will usually replace them from the queue before the match starts. Players who quit after the match has already started are typically quitting a losing match that is too one-sided - no one quits a winning match, after all. It's often the case that those losing matches are matches where they are getting utterly dominated (e.g. 3 capped in CW or NC). To be perfectly clear here, it will make zero difference on the outcome of those matches whether a player quits the match or not. If you're getting beat that badly with 8 players, it won't matter if you're down to 7 or 6. So the real problem here is for the players in queue who end up replacing players who quit and end up in that losing match already in progress.

 

Penalizing players for leaving a frustrating losing match isn't going to solve the problem, and it's not fair to penalize a player who leaves a match before it starts since they aren't impacting anyone. For those quitting after the match has already started, they'll leave anyway if the match is that bad and go find something else to do during their deserter debuff. I know this for a fact because I see it work that way in Rift PvP which has a 15 minute penalty when you quit a WF (Warfront) there, but players quit anyway if the match is too one-sided.

 

There's a couple of better ways to address this rather than implementing any kind of deserter penalty. For one, BW should make WZs cross-server to expand the queue. Then they need to match players in those WZ queues based on gear level so that Recruit geared players aren't forced to play against augmented WH players. Lastly, BW needs to stop allowing players to queue into a match already in progress. If players are leaving a losing, one-sided match, there's no point in throwing other players into that match - most of the time it won't change the outcome of the match - so it's not helping anyone to let other players queue in as replacements and it only spreads the frustration of that match to more players.

 

Those suggestions will resolve the issue with players getting queued into an already losing match, and it will lessen the number of players quitting matches, without penalizing players who leave a match before it starts simply because they can't choose which matches they queue for and dislike certain WZs.

[richardya]

Everone is missing several common sense points here.........simply because they can't choose which matches they queue for and dislike certain WZs.

 

I think you miss the points.

If you leave before it starts "sometimes" they get a rep. "Sometimes" they don't. The selfish quitter doesn't care. Blaming Bioware doesn't work, Bioware cant give everyone the queues they want, separate queues for premades, expertise, separate maps( WZ's) etc. The selfish quitter only sees his issue and not the other peoples issue. Quitter 1 quits because he hates huttball and quitter 2 quits if he playing a premade etc etc They can't make all these queues without increasing the wait times tenfold.

 

The mature player also has his favorite maps and maps he doesn't like, the mature player also doesn't like playing with a team of undegeared or players who don't know the game. The mature player deals with it, it's part of an MMO. The quitter quits because, he wants what he wants, oblivious to the random aspect of a random queue. He is essentially employing a three year-old mentality,

 

Not allowing replacements would end pvp. When you have low character people who leave in 60 seconds you will ruin pvp without the mature lpayer who fills in and takes the lumps. It's like saying let babies dirty a diaper in a restaurant and leave it there. The parents or a mature adult will clean the mess left by the baby. Different quitters haven't different breaking points just as different babies cry over different levels of wanting toys. So one guy quits, then another quits because his team is short. etc etc Keep in mind that this will happen on both sides. Essentially 70% of matches will be determined by who has more quitters.

Edited August 6, 2012 by richardya

[Mournblood]

I think you miss the points.

If you leave before it starts "sometimes" they get a rep. "Sometimes" they don't. The selfish quitter doesn't care. Blaming Bioware doesn't work, Bioware cant give everyone they queues they want, separate queues for premades, expertise, separate maps( WZ's) etc. The selfish quitter only sees his issue and not the other peoples issue. Quitter 1 quits because he hates huttball and quitter 2 quits if he playing a premade etc etc They can't make all these queues without increasing the wait times tenfold. The mature player also has his favorite maps and maps he doesn't like, the mature player also doesn't like playing with a team of undegeared or players who don't know the game. The mature player deals with it, it's part of an MMO. The quitter quits because, he wants what he wants, oblivious to the random aspect of a random queue. He is essentially employing a three year-old mentality,

 

Not allowing replacements would end pvp. When you have low character people who leave in 60 seconds you will ruin pvp without the mature lpayer who fills in and takes the lumps. It's like saying let babies dirty a diaper in a restaurant and leave it there. The parents or a mature adult will clean the mess left by the baby. Different quitters haven't different breaking points just as different babies cry over different levels of wanting toys. So one guy quits, then another quits because his team is short. etc etc Keep in mind that this will happen on both sides. Essentially 70% of matches will be determined by who has more quitters.

 

Sure they can. Rift does it. That is, Rift WFs queue players by their Prestige rank (gear level), but they can do this because their PvP is cross-server. If BW made their WZs cross-server, you'd have sufficient players in the queue to match based on gear level. You'd also be guaranteed to queue in a replacement for a player who quits the match before the match starts. The other option there, of course, is to allow players to actually choose which WZs they queue up for. Again, that can only be supported if PvP is cross-server.

 

You're never going to be able to penalize players for quitting matches harshly enough to prevent it from happening. If a player loathes HB, they'll gladly take the 15 or 30 minute deserter debuff and go do dailies, or queue up for a FP instead, or any number of other things. Similarly, a player who is on a team of Recruit geared players against a (partial) premade of WH geared players is NOT having fun. I can promise you that. What do you think they're going to do? Endure a match of beatdowns in a match they have no chance of winning, or take a deserter debuff for 15 or 30 minutes to go do something more productive and fun?

 

Imposing your values on other players isn't the solution. Just because YOU feel it's the right thing to do to stay in a match whether you like the WZ or not, or whether you're getting curbstomped or not, doesn't mean everyone should be expected to do the same. The problem is with the design, not the player. The design needs to be changed or modified to make the matches more fair and more fun. If you penalize players for refusing to do something they don't find fun, you also aren't helping to encourage PvP participation.

 

Finally, the only useful point of replacements is before the match starts, or possibly due to players who DC in a close match or one that you are winning. But replacing players who quit a match after it starts where they are getting facerolled isn't going to matter. Since DCs are rare in the matches I've been in, I don't see how it's going to negatively effect PvP to just eliminate queue replacements after a match has already started. The biggest complaint I've heard about players who quit matches after they've already started is from the players who get queued into that match as replacements.

[Aaoogaa]

I quit warzones because my groupfinder Q pops. Don't think I should be penalized for using an in game tool. Other than that I stay to the end.

[DroidDreamer]

I don't mind backfilling WZs every since they re-adjusted the "loser" rewards. I just come in and do my best for the team. Just make sure you get at lease one medal before the end of the match.

 

And when my team loses some WZ quitters, that's fine too. We've had amazing come backs after the whiners and complainers leave.

[richardya]

I quit warzones because my groupfinder Q pops. Don't think I should be penalized for using an in game tool. Other than that I stay to the end.

 

Certainly should not be punished. Maybe they will get a replacement, maybe they won't, what do you care?

Maybe your queue will pop when you are solo guarding a node or at key moment when you leave that will cause a loss, who cares, you should do what you want and not be punished for it. Screw your team.

Edited August 6, 2012 by richardya

[TonyDragonflame]

Clear solution is nerf Operatives again!

[DarthSabreth]

The OP is wrong about this, instead of allowing the disgruntled player to leave and picking up a happy player you are basically encouraging that player to sit on a node and do nothing which is worse than just losing that player all together.

 

its fine the way it is, if we had a cross server "PVP que" like most other normal mmo's had then there would be more of a pool to play against / pick up!

[Sroxe]

If u leave a pvp match through the minimap then u should lose 100 pvp comms each time however if u hit -500 comms then u cannot enter warzones unless u pay a fine of 500k maybe it should be in tiers ie tier 2 would be if u get -300 comms = 1 million fine. If u afk a small fine of 100 k is issued increasing through a tier system

 

Another idea would be a deserter debuff on expertise maybe a 2hr 10% per stack

Edited August 6, 2012 by Sroxe

[MOAI]

So some players want no quitters at all. I truly hate HB beyond anything. It is so hard to play and also pointless to play because medals are hard to get. Would players rather have someone run around in a corner for 15 minutes not even trying or have a player who does not want to play leave and then have someone else enter actually play. Not everyone likes every WZ and some WZ are unplayable to me.

 

Technically winning a HB match 6 to 0 is selfish and you should at least let the other team score one goal and have all players get one medal.

 

The question is would rather have a player is completely useless stay in the match and not help the team, hide behind the trash cans and run back and forth the entire match, or have said player leave before the match starts and allow someone who actually knows how to play and wants to play enter the match? True sometimes you might not find a replacement, but maybe the solution could be you can not leave the match without a penalty without having someone to automatically replace them. Once said player is defeated then they can leave the replacement can take their place.

 

Telling me that your team won in match that I left will not make me want to play because I will probably answer with oh good you probably won because I left and you got someone better.

[Eztro]

Don't know if its been mentioned (sorry, only got through a couple of pages of posts)... but if you blocked premades from fighting pugs, you would get a lot less quitters all around.

 

I like that answer a lot more than the crazy point system the OP lists.

[Saltydogg]

How about you just quit crying about quitters. Maybe some of us dont want to spend time getting our faces pushed in. When pugging why should i subject myself to 10 minutes of hell just to get nothing out of it? I would rather quit and join another WZ with the knowledge that I wont be joining the same group of horrible players. If it happens again I will just quit again. Sorry but I am not into wasting my time anymore on a bunch of pve wearing scrubs.

[Saltydogg]

Don't know if its been mentioned (sorry, only got through a couple of pages of posts)... but if you blocked premades from fighting pugs, you would get a lot less quitters all around.

 

I like that answer a lot more than the crazy point system the OP lists.

 

A 4 man team is hardly a premade.

[Antipodes]

I mostly stick around for most games, win or lose, except when I join a game that is already in progress and losing badly.

 

Other than that, it's a good idea. I'm not sure why quitters are disagreeing with it. They must have the best gear/strategies because that's their excuse for quitting right?

[Eztro]

A 4 man team is hardly a premade.

I'll take a 3 person team over 8 randomly geared pugs any day. You know a well geared 3-4 person team can own 8 disorganized randoms.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Eztro

[dcgregorya]

 

I don't think so. I think this is just true in the delusional quitters mind. In reality, every time the quitter loses he does something called "projection" whereby he places the blame on one of the factors you mentioned. That is the point of the solution. The quitter will quickly awake to reality.

 

Huttball - newbies standing on the edge for enemy to jump to. Enemies jump up and score. Say over comms, "Don't stand near the edge." Happens twice more (same person). Is it projecting to not want to get owned 6-0 because one idiot can't listen?

[Blastwhat]

The Quitters as you want to call them are leaving matches due to third party programs running on the opposing team and if you know your system you can pick them out fast it takes one run and your machine if set up properly will lag like hell due to the third party programs running and id say you play a pub class since your talking about the quitters, all i hear is how oped the imps are yet all i see winning is the pubs at least in the pre 50 PVP but to me it doesnt matter im thru with this so called decent MMO prsonally i think it stinks and thats why they have to go free to play they cant keep clients active with no end game attractions the story line is great and unless your a dedicated pvp'er you will never have fun in pvp in this game the pvp aspect sucks asstroids

[richardya]

The Quitters as you want to call them are leaving matches due to third party programs running on the opposing team and if you know your system you can pick them out fast it takes one run and your machine if set up properly will lag like hell due to the third party programs running and id say you play a pub class since your talking about the quitters, all i hear is how oped the imps are yet all i see winning is the pubs at least in the pre 50 PVP but to me it doesnt matter im thru with this so called decent MMO prsonally i think it stinks and thats why they have to go free to play they cant keep clients active with no end game attractions the story line is great and unless your a dedicated pvp'er you will never have fun in pvp in this game the pvp aspect sucks asstroids

 

That is the longest sentence I have ever seen. One comma is all you gave us. I tried twice but can not see your point.

Edited August 7, 2012 by richardya

[richardya]

Huttball - newbies standing on the edge for enemy to jump to. Enemies jump up and score. Say over comms, "Don't stand near the edge." Happens twice more (same person). Is it projecting to not want to get owned 6-0 because one idiot can't listen?

 

No, it's quitting on your other 6 teammates and forcing someone else to take your spot in a hutball game that you are down 2-0. "Projecting" is what the quitter does who blames all his seven teammates. What you are doing is just demonstrating an inability to deal with losing. This is why you quitters need your own queue.

 

The non-quitters will play with the occasional new player. We understand that in a random queue sometimes you will get someone who is new to PvP. Sometimes the other team will as well. Yes, this will make it harder to win. We deal with it and do not quit so someone else has to deal with it.

Edited August 7, 2012 by richardya

[LarryRow]

Certainly should not be punished. Maybe they will get a replacement, maybe they won't, what do you care?

Maybe your queue will pop when you are solo guarding a node or at key moment when you leave that will cause a loss, who cares, you should do what you want and not be punished for it. Screw your team.

 

LOL I picture you looking EXACTLY like your avatar.

 

Dude, you take regular warzones waaaay too seriously. DPS queue times can take a while. Are they supposed to twiddle their thumbs on the fleet?

 

The real question is this: since most warzones are max 15 minutes, and another will be along immediately following, what do you care?

[paul_preib]

Certainly should not be punished. Maybe they will get a replacement, maybe they won't, what do you care?

Maybe your queue will pop when you are solo guarding a node or at key moment when you leave that will cause a loss, who cares, you should do what you want and not be punished for it. Screw your team.

Given that bioware created the mechanic to allow you to remain group-finder queued whilst in a warzone in the first place I would have to go out on a limb and say that they feel that you are perfectly within your acceptable right to to leave a warzone for this purpose.

 

I would also return to that afformentioned idea that you view things in an overly absolute manner. Yes there are 652 excuses for leaving a warzone and 622 are a load of bull, but that is far different from saying they a 100% invalid.

 

 

I gut it out 95% of the time since I can pretty much always guarantee myself at least six and usually 8+ medals in a losing effort, but once in a blue moon y'just get fed up by the fourth or fifth terrible draw in a row. If I quit all 5 yes call me names give me my debuff, whatever makes you feel better. But anyone who puts a reasonable effort in hits their limit every so often, and if once in awhile someone feels justified in rage quitting I am not holding it against them.

 

 

I also offer up that one begins to lose focus on whether someone's stance is in the right or is wrong when it becomes obscured by virtue of how preachy that person becomes with regards to said stance.

[mtsr]

Out of 15k kills I have quit a PvP match all of 2 times.

 

First time was before 1.2 lol to get a ride back to fleet I wanted to see where it was that the game put you exactly. As a lot of people were doing this at the time.

 

Second time was to join PvE HM that popped. The PvE qeue always pops while I'm IN a match never when I'm out.

The timer on joining PvE once it pops is LOL 2mins maybe, WHILE A POP TAKES UP TO 30 minutes or an HOUR!

 

THE TIMER ON JOINING PvE SHOULD BE INCREASED TO 20 MINUTES, I can whisper I will join after the PvP match is over! Most times the pvp match is half over anyway.

 

I will NOT sit around doing NOTHING while waiting for PvE pop.

 

I have quit a total of 2 matches out of 15k kills. I have JOINED matches in progress HUNDREDS of times where players have quit, and we have actually come back and won some of those matches.

Edited August 7, 2012 by mtsr

[Pvtcarnage]

So the idea is to punish us, and eventually make us quit PVPing altogether, and quite possibly the game itself.

 

Genius.

 

Just what the game needs. Fewer players. Just what Bioware/EA needs fewer subs.

 

Please think before you post lunacy like this.

 

Your already a quitter so why not just quit pvp, and if we lost all quitters it would be a good thing not a bad thing.

Man up and play, or....now this might be hard for you but how about finding friends to play with so you have less pugs?

[RogueNights]

I'd say generally people should try not to quit whimsically in the name of good sportsmanship. There are several reasons to justify it though including groupfinder, getting paired w/ massively under geared players, rage quitting, virtually anything. If someone is at the point where they want to quit they should, it works out to everyone's advantage. If you think people should have to play w/ you that don't want to play w/ you because you want them to, you need to get a grip on reality.