Dear Pugs, I am tired of carrying you.

[dcgregorya]

Dear Warzone whiner,

 

Stop queuing. Seriously. You who whine about a loss at the end of a pug warzone are invariably one of the three worst in the warzone on either team. It does not impress the rest of us when you boast about doubling the damage of an operative with your powertech in a huttball match, not realizing said operative also has 250k+ heals and not knowing that damage and heal totals mean absolutely nothing in huttball. In fact, all of this just reiterates to the rest of us how crap your situational awareness is and how terrible your understanding of what you should be doing actually is.

 

In other warzones, your deaths are so high not because your team is bad, but because you don't fight at nodes and better players who could be supporting and focusing knew not to leave the node and help you. And that time the other team capped snow? That was because, instead of reinforcing snow when the guard called for help, you tried to solo grass, stupidly thinking it was empty, and got ganked by the one invisible shadow who didn't zerg with the other 7.

 

Hah. So you need to make up a bunch of nonsense believing I die a lot or can't tell healers from fail DPS to justify why it's alright for you to suck?

 

I don't die a lot. I don't lose every match. I don't have issues knowing who the healers are (hint: they're usually in my premade). I'm just tired of carrying scrubs, I'm tired of my premade having to carry scrubs, I'm tired of queuing with 2 and having to split both of us at different nodes so that the scrubs don't lose them. Etc. If you're that bad, its not because of all this made up nonsense you are trying to justify yourself with, it's because you're bad and you don't realize it so you don't try to correct it.

[Rannox]

Stop trying to click your way to 75k in damage as a DPS class. In fact, stop queuing at all. No excuse for people being as bad as they are. Why is it two people are able to break 300k plus objectives every single match without fail and others can't seem to get past 100k with full battlemaster gear? This isn't rocket science - rotations in this game take like 4 keybinds.

 

Because they are playing for objectives and not to top the dps chart at the end of the game.

I am WH Sorcerer and on Huttball i am doing ca 75-100k damage, because i am avoiding the fighting and always looking to pull the ball handler.

Or on maps like the voidstar and novare coast if you are constantly targeted you can't do any damage with specific dps classes like the lighting sorcerer. (as you need to stand still to be able to cast)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Rannox

[dcgregorya]

Because they are playing for objectives and not to top the dps chart at the end of the game.

I am WH Sorcerer and on Huttball i am doing ca 75-100k damage, because i am avoiding the fighting and always looking to pull the ball handler.

Or on maps like the voidstar and novare coast if you are constantly targeted you can't do any damage with specific dps classes like the lighting sorcerer.

 

Is that what it is? Is that why I have to cap, carry ball over goal, why my premades (even if just me and one other person) need to split on doors, split on nodes? No, its not that they play objectives, its that they are bad and make excuses like you are making. Stop making excuses, try to do better. My sorc does 300k+. My vanguard does 400k+. My sent does 300k+. My gunslinger does 300k+. My mercenary does 300k+. My shadow is only level 18, he only does 150k.

Edited July 30, 2012 by dcgregorya

[JackNader]

I tried a few lvl 50 warzones a while back in full BM using only the legacy unarmed combat skills. I did roughly 80k damage each round. So yeh.. there's no excuse for not breaking 100k damage each round unless your a healer or it's huttball. Edited July 30, 2012 by JackNader

[Ssfbistimg]

Hah. So you need to make up a bunch of nonsense believing I die a lot or can't tell healers from fail DPS to justify why it's alright for you to suck?

 

I don't die a lot. I don't lose every match. I don't have issues knowing who the healers are (hint: they're usually in my premade). I'm just tired of carrying scrubs, I'm tired of my premade having to carry scrubs, I'm tired of queuing with 2 and having to split both of us at different nodes so that the scrubs don't lose them. Etc. If you're that bad, its not because of all this made up nonsense you are trying to justify yourself with, it's because you're bad and you don't realize it so you don't try to correct it.

 

then grow a set and do ranked. case solved. I love carrying pugs and I want them to continue queuing. what you seem to have a problem with is you have little heart and no balls. So stop crying and man up. Ranked is there for a reason.

[DarkSaberMaster]

then grow a set and do ranked. case solved. I love carrying pugs and I want them to continue queuing. what you seem to have a problem with is you have little heart and no balls. So stop crying and man up. Ranked is there for a reason.

 

/thread

[Never_Hesitate]

I've been that guy too and I've broken 100k. And guess what - in those games where there's one guy doing that - what are the other 4 guys with less than 100k doing? The problem is people have these fantasies where they are really good and really doing well but for whatever reason damage is not actually making it from their gun to the enemy. And that's why I'm here to tell you, if you're not breaking 100k as a DPS, you are bad.

I once was at the outer node and did 0 dmg, just because not a single enemy came to take the node.

 

In fact, if you're the guy whose always on left in PUG civil wars, do me a favor and call inc before you die. And try to learn to take on a 1vs1 once in a while, or at least stall them. Because every pug where I don't have a guildie guarding a node is a pug where that node gets taken it seems.

And if you're one of the guys, who is always zerging around in the middle, do me a favor and react to my inc call out.

What can I do if I call out an inc and you react when i'm already dead and the node is taken?

[Astarica]

Well the numbers are relative. 100K is very good damage if the next highest damage is 50K. You probably got rolled very badly for that to happen but the guy who did 100K at least went down fighting.

 

I don't like how people do obviously bad numbers and tell you 'but there's more to the numbers'. 99% of the time, there isn't. I mean sure 300K versus 200K maybe the 200K guy had some intangibles that made him useful, I can buy that (though it's usually not true). But 300K versus 100K for DPS? No way the 100K guy is at all competitive. As a rule I take +- 25% for same DPS classification, i.e. if you're both melee. Obviously I account for stuff like specs (can't really compare Sniper DPS number with any melee DPS numbers, they're just not the same thing) but when all is said and done, it's still very unusual for a good DPS to ever grossly get outperformed on the leaderboard. No you might not be able to beat that Sniper that was well protected, or that PT who was overpowered, or that Sorc who was spamming dots the whole game. But your numbers should look competitive against even those specialized cases.

[dcgregorya]

I once was at the outer node and did 0 dmg, just because not a single enemy came to take the node.

 

 

And if you're one of the guys, who is always zerging around in the middle, do me a favor and react to my inc call out.

What can I do if I call out an inc and you react when i'm already dead and the node is taken?

 

It's called stalling. CC them (and don't break it). LOS them and interrupt the cap. Generally, being the guy who is at the top of the heals and/or DPS, I'm trying to win us the node. If you can't hold the node for 15 seconds don't even go there, if no one is there I will guard it and we won't lose it (of course, we won't get mid or right either because the rest of the team will be busy attacking the tanks while the healers stand back and free cast).

Edited July 30, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Ssfbistimg]

Well the numbers are relative. 100K is very good damage if the next highest damage is 50K. You probably got rolled very badly for that to happen but the guy who did 100K at least went down fighting.

 

I don't like how people do obviously bad numbers and tell you 'but there's more to the numbers'. 99% of the time, there isn't. I mean sure 300K versus 200K maybe the 200K guy had some intangibles that made him useful, I can buy that (though it's usually not true). But 300K versus 100K for DPS? No way the 100K guy is at all competitive. As a rule I take +- 25% for same DPS classification, i.e. if you're both melee. Obviously I account for stuff like specs (can't really compare Sniper DPS number with any melee DPS numbers, they're just not the same thing) but when all is said and done, it's still very unusual for a good DPS to ever grossly get outperformed on the leaderboard. No you might not be able to beat that Sniper that was well protected, or that PT who was overpowered, or that Sorc who was spamming dots the whole game. But your numbers should look competitive against even those specialized cases.

 

Im sorry but my most useful Huttball games I do under 50K damage. I have no need to kill you or attack you. I will p.i.m.p. your catwalk by pulling my ball carriers and knocking off opposing forces. If I go west and only have 1 person attack my node then my damage will be pitiful. Someone can stealth in huttball endzone never attack anyone but score all 6 goals. Another stealth can ninja 3 doors and never attack anyone. Numbers dont tell the whole story. Bottom Line is again if you dont like pugging then man up and do ranked. For christ sake I even pug rateds cause its fun.

[dcgregorya]

then grow a set and do ranked. case solved. I love carrying pugs and I want them to continue queuing. what you seem to have a problem with is you have little heart and no balls. So stop crying and man up. Ranked is there for a reason.

 

I do ranked with my main. These are my alts that I'm trying to gear up for RWZ.

[Astarica]

Im sorry but my most useful Huttball games I do under 50K damage. I have no need to kill you or attack you. I will p.i.m.p. your catwalk by pulling my ball carriers and knocking off opposing forces. If I go west and only have 1 person attack my node then my damage will be pitiful. Someone can stealth in huttball endzone never attack anyone but score all 6 goals. Another stealth can ninja 3 doors and never attack anyone. Numbers dont tell the whole story. Bottom Line is again if you dont like pugging then man up and do ranked. For christ sake I even pug rateds cause its fun.

 

Seriously you're describing the same kind of fantasy scenarios that the OP was complaining about in the first place. The only person who doesn't do damage in Huttball is the ball carrier and it'd be pretty obvious with his attacker points and it's not like anybody ever questioned the effort someone with 10K attack points in Huttball. Unless you're completely blowing out the enemy, even the receivers have to defend for themselves by killing the enemy because no one is going to let you just walk into a prime receiver spot. Yeah you do your CCs and whatnot but most of the time the defender will still stay on you. The only exception is when you're easily blowing out the enemy that you can afford to just walk past them because you've awesome heals. In that case your numbers will look weak but no one will care anyway because it's a blowout one way or another.

 

For every game where the numbers don't tell the whole story there are at least ten games where the numbers tell you everything you need to know about the game.

[dronepilot]

Nothing worth commenting on here, OP is full of self opinion, and subjective comments, that are not representative of everyone's views. Bile.

[Ssfbistimg]

Seriously you're describing the same kind of fantasy scenarios that the OP was complaining about in the first place. The only person who doesn't do damage in Huttball is the ball carrier and it'd be pretty obvious with his attacker points and it's not like anybody ever questioned the effort someone with 10K attack points in Huttball. Unless you're completely blowing out the enemy, even the receivers have to defend for themselves by killing the enemy because no one is going to let you just walk into a prime receiver spot. Yeah you do your CCs and whatnot but most of the time the defender will still stay on you. The only exception is when you're easily blowing out the enemy that you can afford to just walk past them because you've awesome heals. In that case your numbers will look weak but no one will care anyway because it's a blowout one way or another.

 

For every game where the numbers don't tell the whole story there are at least ten games where the numbers tell you everything you need to know about the game.

 

i rarely do damage in huttball. Seriously what crack u smoke. As i said i can control catwalks with knockbacks and stuns. I dont need to kill you. most time killing only hurts you because you put them in better defensive position with full health. You need to learn to play huttball. Only time i do high damage in huttball is when other team has ball alot (means we are playing bad) And I have been on teams where are stealth does 0 damage and scores all 6 goals. so these arent fantasy

[Astarica]

Let me put it this way, I've never seen a good player consistently put up bad numbers in every game. Yes maybe this game he just had a terrible game, and that game he was the solo defender who never fought anybody. But in general you don't see good DPS put up 100K DPS as a DPS very often, or they wouldn't be a good DPS. It's not like people can't tell you were solo defending if you did like 70K with 10K defense points and that's obviously a good enough for anyone.

[dcgregorya]

 

For every game where the numbers don't tell the whole story there are at least ten games where the numbers tell you everything you need to know about the game.

 

This. If the game is won I don't care. Usually its the game where I've got 5 enemies hanging off my delicates, I'm scratching and clawing and take a node and we immediately lose the other node that I'm not standing at. Then the game ends and I'm like, how did we not win? Then I notice there's one other decent guy, a decent healer and everyone else is at 75k or less and the enemy team has 4+ people doing the same damage I'm doing. Its not because I'm awesome, it's because my teamates are *bad* and instead of having these delusions of grandeur they should try a little harder. Obviously since the enemy team won, all their DPS doing wasn't keeping them from doing the objectives. If you're a good DPS you put up numbers consistently. I've had huttball games where I've scored twice and still broke 300k DPS.

 

They don't fool me into thining they were off "playing objectives" because if they were we wouldn't have lost the node at all. Its really that simple. I'm not a jerk kicking newbie puppies down staircases, I'm just saying it like it is which is that I'm tired of being one of the two people in the game trying to carry the other 6 do-nothings.

Edited July 30, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Astarica]

i rarely do damage in huttball. Seriously what crack u smoke. As i said i can control catwalks with knockbacks and stuns. I dont need to kill you. most time killing only hurts you because you put them in better defensive position with full health. You need to learn to play huttball. Only time i do high damage in huttball is when other team has ball alot (means we are playing bad) And I have been on teams where are stealth does 0 damage and scores all 6 goals. so these arent fantasy

 

I don't how you managed to play Huttball without getting grappled to your doom where no amount of knockback can possibly save you because you're already on the bottom level when this happens.

 

Or are we talking about how to play against bad players. Yeah you can get away with very low numbers against bad players. Good players will just grapple where you thought you had good position, and then you kind of have to kill that guy or you're going to dead.

 

The stealth guy scoring 6 goals means your team was good enough to get the ball while playing 6on8. If you can win 6on8 you can obviously get away with doing very little since the rest of the team is very strong.

[Never_Hesitate]

It's called stalling. CC them (and don't break it). LOS them and interrupt the cap. Generally, being the guy who is at the top of the heals and/or DPS, I'm trying to win us the node. If you can't hold the node for 15 seconds don't even go there, if no one is there I will guard it and we won't lose it (of course, we won't get mid or right either because the rest of the team will be busy attacking the tanks while the healers stand back and free cast).

 

I am talking about no reaction in about half a minute and good luck stalling 3 stealthers.

 

Put your ego away, I can play to be top dmg as well and while I do this I can be of no use to my team, if I want to.

 

Numbers don't say a lot.

We had a novare once, where we had to run from one point to the other to def them.

You don't get dmg or objective points while doing that, but you're very useful to your team.

[Ssfbistimg]

I don't how you managed to play Huttball without getting grappled to your doom where no amount of knockback can possibly save you because you're already on the bottom level when this happens.

 

Or are we talking about how to play against bad players. Yeah you can get away with very low numbers against bad players. Good players will just grapple where you thought you had good position, and then you kind of have to kill that guy or you're going to dead.

 

The stealth guy scoring 6 goals means your team was good enough to get the ball while playing 6on8. If you can win 6on8 you can obviously get away with doing very little since the rest of the team is very strong.

 

again i do not have to kill them if i get grappled down. I have roots and force speed. And dying isnt always a bad thing. Every loser marauder who thinks he is a beast will jump to me and chase me around to pad their dps and kills. Meanwhile our ball carrier scores on other side. you can say oh they are bad players (you're right they are) but guess what they had most dps and kills in game. so with your opinion they are beasts

[dcgregorya]

I am talking about no reaction in about half a minute and good luck stalling 3 stealthers.

 

Put your ego away, I can play to be top dmg as well and while I do this I can be of no use to my team, if I want to.

 

Numbers don't say a lot.

We had a novare once, where we had to run from one point to the other to def them.

You don't get dmg or objective points while doing that, but you're very useful to your team.

 

People not showing up happens. It happens to me when I defend nodes. It's unavoidable so you stall as long as you can and you call as often as you can and if it happens it happens.

 

Where though do you get that "putting up numbers is no use to my team"? Who is it, you think, that kills off the enemy healers so we can cap a node, plant on a door, or do all these other things? Do you think we have a tea party at mid and they just agree that its better that we win this one? No, you have to actually kill the enemies.

 

I'd say that killing and CC'ing the enemies so that we can cap is a fairly important part of the game and its pretty darn rare that the team with lower damage wins the match. Maybe because to capture objectives you generally have to kill the enemy fast enough that they can't return in time to prevent the cap. If your DPS as a team is too low, you will never win a voidstar game against competent enemies - at some point you need to put them in the respawn so that someone can start capping.

[Astarica]

This. If the game is won I don't care. Usually its the game where I've got 5 enemies hanging off my delicates, I'm scratching and clawing and take a node and we immediately lose the other node that I'm not standing at. Then the game ends and I'm like, how did we not win? Then I notice there's one other decent guy, a decent healer and everyone else is at 75k or less and the enemy team has 4+ people doing the same damage I'm doing. Its not because I'm awesome, it's because my teamates are *bad* and instead of having these delusions of grandeur they should try a little harder. Obviously since the enemy team won, all their DPS doing wasn't keeping them from doing the objectives. If you're a good DPS you put up numbers consistently. I've had huttball games where I've scored twice and still broke 300k DPS.

 

They don't fool me into thining they were off "playing objectives" because if they were we wouldn't have lost the node at all. Its really that simple. I'm not a jerk kicking newbie puppies down staircases, I'm just saying it like it is which is that I'm tired of being one of the two people in the game trying to carry the other 6 do-nothings.

 

It's particularly baffling when you have say twice the death as the closest guy and you still have top DPS and often by a large margin. By the fact that I died the most I think it's safe to say that I was fighting near some place considered valuable, and I don't mind the deaths but since I was the one taking one for the team, shouldn't the rest of you step up the DPS? After all since I died the most, it should be pretty easy for everyone else to match my DPS given I spent the most time out of my team back at spawn point.

 

In basketball I saw this statistics for the '0 game', when a player has played some nontrivial time in a game and has 0 in everything, including negative stats like turnover or fouls, and it's always baffling how someone can actually end up with such a game. I often feel the same looking at WZ numbers, where I look at some guy who did like say 75K damage, 3 kills, 1 death, and low defender points (so he wasn't actually defending anything), and I just have no idea what you were doing in the whole game. If you have 75K damage and 15 deaths I can at least understand you tried and maybe you just weren't very good, but 75K damage and 1 death makes me wonder if you were ever near the action at all.

[MrWrongGuy]

As a father who has children playing this game, I feel I might need to remind people that often when playing SWTOR people forget their isn't an age limit to play. I am an avid PvP player, and I do not let my kids queue up for pvp. But some parents don't care and let them group and pvp or do whatever they want.

 

That 'toon' that you are nerd raging at and making fun of may just be someone's 9 year old kid that is trying to have fun and enjoy the game just like you.

 

Moral of story - people that make posts like this just don't get it. PUGs and general pvp battlegrounds are never going to be enlightened by your godly skills and abilities no matter how much you preach or nerd rage. There is a reason that there is ranked pvp, it's for people like you and me that take it more seriously. If you queue up in regular pvp, then suck it up buttercup because you are going to get the baddies and everything else along with it.

 

Amazing, I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years and it's almost worse having to explain this to people like the OP over and over than it is trying to help your PUG teams win.

Edited July 30, 2012 by MrWrongGuy

[Astarica]

 

I'd say that killing and CC'ing the enemies so that we can cap is a fairly important part of the game and its pretty darn rare that the team with lower damage wins the match. Maybe because to capture objectives you generally have to kill the enemy fast enough that they can't return in time to prevent the cap. If your DPS as a team is too low, you will never win a voidstar game against competent enemies - at some point you need to put them in the respawn so that someone can start capping.

 

Unless there's some kind of mismatch in team composition (i.e. one team has all healers and another team has all DPS), it's pretty rare to win a WZ of any kind while losing the DPS leaderboard. The most common scenario I see is when your healing is so good you can just walk past all the enemy especially on a map like Huttball so you never need to kill anybody. A heavy DPS team, ironically, can sometimes lose the DPS leaderboard but still win against a defense heavy team because they'd actually have the burst DPS to apply when it matters, while the defense heavy team certainly can sustain their DPS forever.

[dcgregorya]

As a father who has children playing this game, I feel I might need to remind people that often when playing SWTOR people forget their isn't an age limit to play. I am an avid PvP player, and I do not let my kids queue up for pvp. But some parents don't care and let them group and pvp or do whatever they want.

 

That 'toon' that you are nerd raging at and making fun of may just be someone's 9 year old kid that is trying to have fun and enjoy the game just like you.

 

Moral of story - people that make posts like this just don't get it. PUGs and general pvp battlegrounds are never going to be enlightened by your godly skills and abilities no matter how much you preach or nerd rage. There is a reason that there is ranked pvp, it's for people like you and me that take it more seriously. If you queue up in regular pvp, then suck it up buttercup because you are going to get the baddies and everything else along with it.

 

Amazing, I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years and it's almost worse having to explain this to people like the OP over and over than it is trying to help your PUG teams win.

 

So the guys on this thread trying to convince me that "its because they were pulling the BC" or "it's because I was solo defending left" or other non-sense excuses are all 9 year olds? Sorry but no, from my interactions with them the people I'm talking about are people who *truly believe* that they can put up numbers "if that was what they were trying to do". And they're just delusional. Either that or every gosh darn solo queue I'm in is filled with 9 year olds.

 

The moral of the story for me is that there's two types of people. People who can admit when they're not good at something and people who make excuses. People who try and people who would rather blame others. Considering you're talking about "nerd rage" and calling me a buttercup I'm guessing this thread hit you a little close to home old man.

Edited July 30, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Ssfbistimg]

Unless there's some kind of mismatch in team composition (i.e. one team has all healers and another team has all DPS), it's pretty rare to win a WZ of any kind while losing the DPS leaderboard. The most common scenario I see is when your healing is so good you can just walk past all the enemy especially on a map like Huttball so you never need to kill anybody. A heavy DPS team, ironically, can sometimes lose the DPS leaderboard but still win against a defense heavy team because they'd actually have the burst DPS to apply when it matters, while the defense heavy team certainly can sustain their DPS forever.

 

again your logic is failed. we win voidstar all the time with less dps. Just tonight we did a voidstar where our top dps had 110k the other team had 2 guys over 300k. But we won 6 nothing. why cause I went east killed solo guard capped door we got out in front and capped with almost 4 minutes left. we then defended for 4 minutes and game was over. There is not a single warzone you have to lead dps race to win. And as i said 85% of marauders/sentinels are horrible objective players and yet they always have high dps and kills. I would rather have someone do 75k damage on my team then a bad kill chaser. So again if u dont like how pugs play dont pug. All these low dpsers you guys hate pay their 15$ and have every right to play bad. If i cant make kill chasing marauders/PT not queue up you cant make bad dpsers not queue up.