DarthSoull Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hello, I'm kind of new to mmorpgs and I was wondering if the Juggernaut is good for PVE. I like to do good DPS. But I'm not very fond of the idea to be a maraduer. I don't want 2 sabers. I don't like the way it looks and I love heavy armor.But since I'm kind of new to mmorpgs and I play mainly for the story, my question is will I have any difficulties with a Vengence Jugg ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quirce Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Honestly, the DEVs say we're within the 5% of everyone else and therefore you CAN be viable. There have been parses out there that prove this. Now for real life, most raids WILL NOT TAKE YOU as a DPS Jugg purely because you don't bring anything to the raid, and MOST DPS jugg's do subpar damage. BUT! If your lucky enough to have a good guild (like me) and they let you role DPS Jugg (like mine) they CAN be viable if played correctly. I have found they are VERY gear dependent. It all comes down to this. PLAY WHAT IS FUN FOR YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayshames Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Juggernaut's can be good DPS when you're higher level with Vengeance as you get a wide range of abilitys and you practically never have to use default attack (after 40 ) Though, I don't really play my Jugg/Gaurdian because not many people take them in groups. If your looking for a heavy armour class with good DPS it's definitely Vanguard/Powertech. They are one of the best DPS classes right now and both have the ability to switch to tank tree aswell so it's good. I'm rolling a Vanguard currently because I love the style but most of all their end-game armours look pretty damn snazzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hello, I'm kind of new to mmorpgs and I was wondering if the Juggernaut is good for PVE. I like to do good DPS. But I'm not very fond of the idea to be a maraduer. I don't want 2 sabers. I don't like the way it looks and I love heavy armor.But since I'm kind of new to mmorpgs and I play mainly for the story, my question is will I have any difficulties with a Vengence Jugg ? Juggs are great for PvE. the viewed weakness in high end raids won't affect you if you are a casual player and not focused on top en progression raiding. the average nightly group (a.k.a flashpoints) benefits a great deal with a well played jugg in the mix. Plus, they are a fun class to play. the caveat is they are also one of the more complicated classes to fully flesh out. they require more work to get a similar result from then other classes. but if you can get past that hurdle, they have a great deal of flexibility and bring much to a group. However, don't play them if you are of the mindset of being "the best DPS" in the group/guild/whatever. you will find that even if you do put out good DPS, many people will still perceive you as a worse DPS (due in no small part to people who played juggs poorly and build a bad rep for the class). there are some other classes that can do more DPS a bit easier, but Jugg wins for me due to playstyle. I just love the single saber and their animations, very fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalAlien Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Vengeance Juggernaut is pretty good. Good skilled players with decent gear should have no problem pulling the DPS needed for Denova HM. Vengeance Juggernaut suffers from the same cons as other melee DPS, though. The only utility they have to make up for this is a taunt and threat wipe. Some guilds may pass a Juggernaut for a Marauder's team buffs for that alone, though I can see the usefulness of a third taunt and a threat wipe in operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Vengeance Juggernaut is pretty good. Good skilled players with decent gear should have no problem pulling the DPS needed for Denova HM. Vengeance Juggernaut suffers from the same cons as other melee DPS, though. The only utility they have to make up for this is a taunt and threat wipe. Some guilds may pass a Juggernaut for a Marauder's team buffs for that alone, though I can see the usefulness of a third taunt and a threat wipe in operations. I really think that Juggs need something to compete with Bloodthirst. Bloodthirst is SUCH a good buff that maybe if they gave Juggs a raid wide defensive cooldown, like fifteen seconds of everyone takes 15% less damage it might make up for it a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalAlien Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 All three tanking classes need some kind of damage reduction buff/debuff for the entire party. Tankassins get Wither, a 5% damage reduction debuff to all that get hit. However, that's a tanking tree stat, which means it'd have to be something Juggernauts get relatively high up the Immortal tree - despite the fact that it's not a very good tree at the moment. That said, maybe something like a party wide buff would be a good thing for Vengeance Juggernaut. As it stands, Sorc and Merc DPS have better Utility with off-heals and a CC. Operative DPS is pretty much the same, with one of their CC's being able to allow groups to bypass pulls. To be honest, the only way I can see operations forcing groups to bring a more diverse melee DPS selection other than stacking Marauders is to either put a cooldown-esque debuff on Bloodthirst or make more fights melee unfriendly. Arguably, the cooldown option seems like the only one that people might like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis_Anubis Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yes, Bloodthirst needs the equivalent of the 'Sated' debuff. No, a vengeance juggernaut is NOT good for PVE. The only classes that are truly GOOD for PVE, are the ones that can't do anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yes, Bloodthirst needs the equivalent of the 'Sated' debuff. No, a vengeance juggernaut is NOT good for PVE. The only classes that are truly GOOD for PVE, are the ones that can't do anything else. Very narrow-minded viewpoint that doesn't match reality friend. DPS specs of all AC's are running HM EV just fine, competing well in DPS (bio puts all DPS specs w/i 5% of each other when fully utilized), and guilds are running Melee and ranged DPS of all classes...including Vengeance juggs. And vengeance is simple the best Jugg spec for PvE DPS. I've seen top juggs post 1600-1800+ DPS, which is plenty for anything up to 16 man EV and HM denova. They obviously have the typical melee disadvantages, and bloodthirst is far more popular then the Jugg armor debuff, but this in no way degrades the capability of a jugg (or any AC with multiple roles) of filling a DPS slot. no offense, but you sound like your trying to defend the "DPS" only classes there...a bit sensitive about your Maurader/Sniper? worried about their future in competing with hybrids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalAlien Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 DPS Vengeance is completely viable in PVE, and so are all classes if played right. It's not like PVP where you have to be the best to pass PVE endgame. So long as the spec is not broken, then it's fine for EC HM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griad Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I play Vengence specced jug and i easy hit around 1400 dps on stationary fights if not higher and my ravage crits for around 9k damage when all 3 hits crit, my vicious throw hits boss HM bosses like kephess for around 5k easy and overall i am right around where all most other melee dps, where marauders are a little higher. People who say that u cant dps in vengence spec are flat out wrong, its true that marauders will pull higher DPS but they dont have the ability to midfight switch to tank stance and off tank or for that matter on stormcaller and firebrand fight to taunt of tank to get the incinerate armor debuff so you wont have to tank swap. So overall we have 2 jugger vengence spec in our main raid setup who clears Denova HM every week and on the first bosses in denova we actually have to slow the dps on toth down to keep him from jumping before the baradium heave is cast, to keep him from beeing constantly enraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieM Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) What annoys me a bit is that people come onto these forums and keep on asking the same (or similar) question: Is Jugg dps/ Vengeance viable in PvE? I applaud the stalwarts who answer these questions fully every time: Elyx, ImmortalAlien, KingFink - you guys are awesome - but for the love of God to the OP (and others who ask the same question) .. SEARCH THE FORUMS! This question must have been answered a thousand times already by now! Edited July 31, 2012 by JamieM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonthelamb Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 ever since they made armor sunder not stack, it seems like having a DPS Jugg in your group is more of a burden than help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalAlien Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 ever since they made armor sunder not stack, it seems like having a DPS Jugg in your group is more of a burden than help. If you don't have something that reduces armor, then it isn't a burden. I've wondered if different buffs stack even if they do the same thing. Common sense says they don't, but Bioware confirmed that only the same buffs do not stack (would the Sniper's buff stack with Juggernaut's stack?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 If you don't have something that reduces armor, then it isn't a burden. I've wondered if different buffs stack even if they do the same thing. Common sense says they don't, but Bioware confirmed that only the same buffs do not stack (would the Sniper's buff stack with Juggernaut's stack?) I'll submit that for the Q&A and see if they answer it. Since that information is pretty darn useful, I'm hoping they answer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaundibble Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 im far from the best player but i have done 1600dps on Karagga and im not fully optimised. average dps in EC is 1100-1500dps depending on fight and how much aoe there is. Anúbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griad Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think the different class armor debuffs stack, even though i know they are not supposed to, but everytime we have both merc, jugger and sniper the bosses seem to go down faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestulan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 im far from the best player but i have done 1600dps on Karagga and im not fully optimised. average dps in EC is 1100-1500dps depending on fight and how much aoe there is. Anúbis AoE DPS is mostly irrelevant, as, regardless of how much you smash or sweeping, Orbital, DFA, and lightning storm are doing more. And, all the armor debuffs no longer stack. Only the highest value one counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teioh_White Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Actually, Juggs do pretty decent AoE damage over a long period of time. Granted, the only times I've ever had to do that is the lizard phase of Kelphass and the hounds in EV if folks don't just want to knock them off the cliff. But unlike other classes AoE's, which are much better than ours, they have a recast. We can spam Sweeping Slash almost constantly. This is why I'm generally top dps in Kelphass, even though normally i'm fighting for 3rd place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoLombardi Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I tried it once. Can really pummel stuff, and if you get real lucky, ravage after ravage after ravage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I tried it once. Can really pummel stuff, and if you get real lucky, ravage after ravage after ravage Oh gods yes. If Rampage loves me and procs all the time...my DPS goes up to like 1750 in stationary beatdown sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieM Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Oh gods yes. If Rampage loves me and procs all the time...my DPS goes up to like 1750 in stationary beatdown sessions. Conversely if Rampage doesn't proc for extended periods during boss fights it can become enormously frustrating. Personally as much as I love playing the Juggernaut, I'm not a big fan of the RNG element to our priority system when it is so pivotal to doing decent/very good DPS. I think it should be removed or the odds should go up to a 50% chance to proc Ravage on Impale and Shatter. Edited August 5, 2012 by JamieM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quirce Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Conversely if Rampage doesn't proc for extended periods during boss fights it can become enormously frustrating. Personally as much as I love playing the Juggernaut, I'm not a big fan of the RNG element to our priority system when it is so pivotal to doing decent/very good DPS. I think it should be removed or the odds should go up to a 50% chance to proc Ravage on Impale and Shatter. Although I agree with you on this, a good guild will understand there is nothing you can do about the RNG factor and will not make an issue of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Conversely if Rampage doesn't proc for extended periods during boss fights it can become enormously frustrating. Personally as much as I love playing the Juggernaut, I'm not a big fan of the RNG element to our priority system when it is so pivotal to doing decent/very good DPS. I think it should be removed or the odds should go up to a 50% chance to proc Ravage on Impale and Shatter. Rampage procs are not the main element to the DPS of a Juggernaut. Even if I was to Ravage only every 27 seconds, I still maintain 1450 DPS, which is a plenty of damage compared to hardmode Explosive Conflicts enrage timers. I would love if they would put it up to 50%, but at the moment it isn't strictly necessary. I can maintain 1450-1500 DPS with the way it works right now. I would put that into the category of "very good" DPS and I'm not "relying" on my Rampage procs. I'm simply utilizing them when they come up. Currently, RNG doesn't rule Vengeance DPS, it rules whether we get to absolutely crush our enemies, rather than just give them a savage beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonthelamb Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 yeah not a fan of doing HM EC, getting 0 ravage procs on toth and zorn, then getting 10 procs on the trash in-between FB&SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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