MMO's Do Not Die.

[jarjarloves]

1. you dont raise the cap and then its not wasted content. It will be starter ops content for new people. They can add a new planet and story with no cap increase and people will still do it.

 

The only reason they raise the cap is so that everyone is on the same advancement level again. Basically its telling everyone that everything you done so far and gear you have gotten will be useless in a week. All that time (all be it in this game wasnt long) in flashpoints and Ops wiping and getting gear will be useless and now people can skip those ops and get the same higher gear as you can without doing what you did before.

 

5. I did watch it. Please tell me the time and what he said that he said it was free. Not where the other guys was talking about free and he said it will be one of the biggest updates ever. Bigger than most games in total. Or how fif he say it? about the size of one of the large planets in SWTOR :rak_02:

 

1. that would be stupid. If you don't raise the level cap then those quests they add means that people could burn through all the new content in one afternoon. By adding new levels it means you stretch out the length at which a player can burn through the content.

 

5. sorry if you can't comprehend basic english then there is nothing I can do for you.

 

Tell you what why don't you show me where they said or even hinted at it being a PAID content.

Edited July 26, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Emeda]

1. that would be stupid. If you don't raise the level cap then those quests they add means that people could burn through all the new content in one afternoon. By adding new levels it means you stretch out the length at which a player can burn through the content.

 

5.

First part is at 1:10 where he says its part of a future update. Not an expansion and not paid DLC. The other videos talk about how it is the largest update to a game that isn't a paid expansion. If you can't comprehend what they are saying then you are lost cause.

 

Tell you what why don't you show me where they said or even hinted at it being a PAID content.

 

1. There are plenty of ways you can extend the length of the quests. Make people grind some getting special items etc, or just making people wait a few days inbetween each quest. OK we are going to analize what you have just given us, we will send you a hologram when we have more information (24 hour/48 hour/week,etc).

 

As it is now you can do all the class quests 4 levels below what is needed. They also are not going to make the mobs require OPS gear to kill but instead make it so that newly leveled 50's can continue in green gear so decked out 50's already will tear though it anyways. All you are doing is making an excuse for them to raise the level without giving a good reason for it.

 

5. Look at the definition of update. An update does not mean free or with a cost. It also does not imply either of the two. Also that largest update that is the size of most games he thinks is about the size of a large planet in SWTOR already.

 

We all know that Bioware twist the words so you think something else rather than what they are actually saying. Thats why there are so many instances when they contradict what they say with other things they say.

 

As for the hint? How about this update is larger than most game expansions. (in other words if you would pay for other games expansions then you should have no problem paying for ours that is larger than those ones).

 

OK you might call that looking really deep into what they are thinking but also dont forget the polls or whatever they were that asked how much you would pay for a new planet etc etc etc.

 

There are probable more but those there should make it possible that it will be a paid expansion(update). I never said it was definitly going to be one but that they never have said it wouldnt be one.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Emeda

[ZudetGambeous]

I notice no one mentioned the last MMO EA published... APB... EA shut it down just 2 months after launch because it wasn't making a profit.

 

It was later bought by a different company, improved, and relaunched, but EA shut it down first. So it is very silly to think EA won't shut down an under-performing MMO.

[Blackardin]

You're ignoring the observable data regarding this game. 2.4 million subs to 1.3 million subs in 3 months. That number is no doubt much lower now, you'll see in a month or 2. My server went from 100 people on fleet when that number was announced, to under 20 people at peak times.

They went from 100+ servers to just 12. Explain how that's not a huge sign the game is dying?

It's unlikely the game will shut down in the next few months, BUT to say it can't die in the next several years is just delusional.

 

You are misinterpreting the available data and drawing a conclusion from your own perspective. In short, you are looking at a set of raw data and drawing an entirely irrational conclusion from such. In order to formulate a theory that the game is dying you would have to draw a correlation between the population reduction and your conclusion. This cannot be done because the data demonstrates that the game is still solvent and still turning a reasonable profit.

 

Your data has only demonstrated a reduction in their profit margin. You've extrapolated out the conclusion, which is not correct.

[Emeda]

You are misinterpreting the available data and drawing a conclusion from your own perspective. In short, you are looking at a set of raw data and drawing an entirely irrational conclusion from such. In order to formulate a theory that the game is dying you would have to draw a correlation between the population reduction and your conclusion. This cannot be done because the data demonstrates that the game is still solvent and still turning a reasonable profit.

 

Your data has only demonstrated a reduction in their profit margin. You've extrapolated out the conclusion, which is not correct.

 

So let me ask you to fill in the blanks

 

1. Total amout of game sales in dec

2. Total amount of game sales from jan to july.

3. your current estimation of current subs.

 

I know these all all your estimations but go ahead.

[jarjarloves]

I notice no one mentioned the last MMO EA published... APB... EA shut it down just 2 months after launch because it wasn't making a profit.

 

It was later bought by a different company, improved, and relaunched, but EA shut it down first. So it is very silly to think EA won't shut down an under-performing MMO.

 

EA was just the distrubutor. It was shut down by the Publisher Realtime Worlds NOT by EA. EA had no say on the game.

 

You are right that it was shut down due to it underperforming and the company Realtime Worlds couldn't afford that. Oddly enough if it was EA that owned it they could afford it and it would probably would have never shut down just like WAR, DaoC and UO are still running.

[Blackardin]

So let me ask you to fill in the blanks

 

1. Total amout of game sales in dec

2. Total amount of game sales from jan to july.

3. your current estimation of current subs.

 

I know these all all your estimations but go ahead.

 

This is the entirety of the problem, players just filling in the blanks, making assumptions, and then drawing conclusions from such...just random people on the internet making declarations about something they have no knowledge, experience, or data to back up.

 

The game is solvent. The financials prove that. Everything else is conjecture.

[jarjarloves]

1. There are plenty of ways you can extend the length of the quests. Make people grind some getting special items etc, or just making people wait a few days inbetween each quest. OK we are going to analize what you have just given us, we will send you a hologram when we have more information (24 hour/48 hour/week,etc).

 

As it is now you can do all the class quests 4 levels below what is needed. They also are not going to make the mobs require OPS gear to kill but instead make it so that newly leveled 50's can continue in green gear so decked out 50's already will tear though it anyways. All you are doing is making an excuse for them to raise the level without giving a good reason for it.

 

5. Look at the definition of update. An update does not mean free or with a cost. It also does not imply either of the two. Also that largest update that is the size of most games he thinks is about the size of a large planet in SWTOR already.

 

We all know that Bioware twist the words so you think something else rather than what they are actually saying. Thats why there are so many instances when they contradict what they say with other things they say.

 

As for the hint? How about this update is larger than most game expansions. (in other words if you would pay for other games expansions then you should have no problem paying for ours that is larger than those ones).

 

OK you might call that looking really deep into what they are thinking but also dont forget the polls or whatever they were that asked how much you would pay for a new planet etc etc etc.

 

There are probable more but those there should make it possible that it will be a paid expansion(update). I never said it was definitly going to be one but that they never have said it wouldnt be one.

 

1. wow that is possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. You want people to grind for days so they can do a new quest? Thank god you have nothing to do with game design. Have you ever seen another MMO do this? No and there is a very good reason why.

 

 

5. Lets start with the polls. Now if you noticed in the polls it was pay $30 and get 3 months free plus Makeb. So right there they lose money. Which means .... MAKEB IS FREE. Yes if you pay $30 for 3 months which is normally $45 AND get a Planet and level cap increase GUESS WHAT ITS FREE

 

 

Would you mind pointing out these cases where Bioware has twisted it's words to make you think other things? The only person I see twisting words here is you

 

Now you are trying to say that SWTOR updates arent free???

 

troll harder you can do it.

[Emeda]

This is the entirety of the problem, players just filling in the blanks, making assumptions, and then drawing conclusions from such...just random people on the internet making declarations about something they have no knowledge, experience, or data to back up.

 

The game is solvent. The financials prove that. Everything else is conjecture.

 

SO you wont answer it. Didnt think so but instead give some lame excuse.

 

We do have the data to back it up. Is it 100% accurate? No but it is enough data to give us an idea.

 

You wont give the number you think they were because you know they would only make the game look bad if you gave an honest number and not that the game has 4 million subs currently or something insane like that.

[jarjarloves]

Also listen to about 4:20 with server trasnfers. The guy asked if they could pick and chose the server they wanted to goto and he say there will be some servers(acting like he is going to answer the question with to choose from) then he just stops. More false information.

 

.

 

I just watched it again and HOLY CRAP you DON"T KNOW HOW TO LISTEN

 

at 2:50 he says YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO PICK ANY SERVER But you will be able to move to a populated server.

 

You need to stop making up lies.

[jarjarloves]

SO you wont answer it. Didnt think so but instead give some lame excuse.

 

We do have the data to back it up. Is it 100% accurate? No but it is enough data to give us an idea.

 

You wont give the number you think they were because you know they would only make the game look bad if you gave an honest number and not that the game has 4 million subs currently or something insane like that.

 

and How many subs does WoW have compared to it's box sales?

 

But you say we have the Data to back it up please enlighten us and provide sources for all your numbers.

[Emeda]

1. wow that is possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. You want people to grind for days so they can do a new quest? Thank god you have nothing to do with game design. Have you ever seen another MMO do this? No and there is a very good reason why.

 

 

5. Lets start with the polls. Now if you noticed in the polls it was pay $30 and get 3 months free plus Makeb. So right there they lose money. Which means .... MAKEB IS FREE. Yes if you pay $30 for 3 months which is normally $45 AND get a Planet and level cap increase GUESS WHAT ITS FREE

 

 

Would you mind pointing out these cases where Bioware has twisted it's words to make you think other things? The only person I see twisting words here is you

 

Now you are trying to say that SWTOR updates arent free???

 

troll harder you can do it.

 

1. You think making people level isnt a grind? I said they could make you do a grind or just make you wait a given amount of time. That was the example of let me analyze what you game me and ill get back to you.

 

5. Not exactly. Its a loaded payment up from. So if some people decided to try the new paid expansion and quit in the first month like so many people did at launch then they would be making 2x as much as they would have if it was free. When you have to pay more money to get something for free its not really free is it.

If you buy the new pinaple cupcake and its buy 2 get one free and you found out that you didnt like it you cant return the 2 that you paid for. IF you like it then you can consider it free but if you dont then you actually are paying 2x as much as you would if you just bought one.

 

I have problems finding links but if you would be so kind can you post the ea call from feb. I know there is at least one case in that one. (its a secret one so I wont give it away but please link it for me )

[Emeda]

and How many subs does WoW have compared to it's box sales?

 

But you say we have the Data to back it up please enlighten us and provide sources for all your numbers.

Ill try to find my post that I did, I will give it to you soon :cool::cool:

[Lorica]

You all need to get a life and stop the SWTOR Marathon. If you all had just taken your time with all 8 slots, then you wouldn't have a problem with end game content and being bored. As for bugs, there are always bugs and actually this game has been the most bug free MMO for me thus far. No game will ever be bug free! Actually, the major shake up for SWTOR came from the purchase of BIOWARE from EA and probably the huge development over costs for the game. EA is still trying to get their act together after the purchase and the following reorg that is always the result of a large corporate purchase.

[Emeda]

One more instance where Bioware contradicts what it says

 

Rembemer when someone from Bioware told everyone that the servers were almost to absolute maximum and if they reached absolute maximum that you would have to sit in the queue? Remember that one?

 

Then they added all the servers and said they would monitor and adjust the caps as needed.

 

What they meant and what you thought they meant were two totally different things or they lied.

 

What they said is that they adjust the caps where they thought it was necessary. To many they though that meant upgraded server with a larger cap (think some people said it was doubled ) What they actually had said is they would adjust it if they setermined it was necessary but they would not increase it over absolute maximum, which it was almost at.

[jarjarloves]

One more instance where Bioware contradicts what it says

 

Rembemer when someone from Bioware told everyone that the servers were almost to absolute maximum and if they reached absolute maximum that you would have to sit in the queue? Remember that one?

 

Then they added all the servers and said they would monitor and adjust the caps as needed.

 

What they meant and what you thought they meant were two totally different things or they lied.

 

What they said is that they adjust the caps where they thought it was necessary. To many they though that meant upgraded server with a larger cap (think some people said it was doubled ) What they actually had said is they would adjust it if they setermined it was necessary but they would not increase it over absolute maximum, which it was almost at.

 

i have tried reading this 5 times. I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Is it safe to say that English isn't your first language?

[Elerak]

MMOs generally don't die. Even the WORST MMOs are still alive and supported years later.

 

Tell that to Asheron's Call 2. Another noob commenting on a genre he is new to...

[Emeda]

That the call on page 3.

http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx?pindex=4

 

"To-date, we have sold through more than 2 million units. Our sell through success to-date is not as apparent to the public because nearly 40% of the December sell-through went through Origin, which is not recorded by third-party data services. This was achieved with the level of Q3 marketing well above that of a AAA holiday quarter launch."

 

http://kennethmarkhoover.me/2012/01/22/swtor-is-fastest-selling-game-in-history-and-its-only-week-4/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/Global/

 

Note that is physical copies sold. Thats 2 million copies. Now remember that quote from the EA call I listed about. 40% of the sales in dec were not recorded bt third party data services so add 40% to 1.75 million and thats roughtly 700k. Now add up the 2millionand the 700k and you have 2.7 million actual games sold via hard copy and origin.

 

Now for a little more math. As of feb 1st anyone who cancelled their sub did so within 10 days of it being able to be recorded since the first day a sub could have been officially cancelled was jan 20th. Now again we know they stated they had 1.7 million subs on feb 1st so that means 1 million people had already cancelled within 10 days of being able too.

 

That sounds nothing like what Bioware said. Now I dont know if bioware actually said it or not that they lost 300k subs but if someone has a link of them saying that then that shows that they were lying.

 

Then again when they said 400k sub loss in the next call they did not add in all the new accounts they got that would have added to the 400k to make it bigger. Wasnt the asia launch included in that call numbers?

 

Do I really need to list anymore?

 

Bioware knew the numbers but said over 2 million so that when they said they had only 1.7 million subs it would look as bad. But saying that a million subs quit that soon would have made it so they couldnt say it was a successful launch.

[Elmillia]

Whatever the future holds, rest assured of one thing. The chance of this game no longer being supported even years from now is almost nonexistent.

 

MMOs generally don't die. Even the WORST MMOs are still alive and supported years later. Even the rare exceptions last at least a decade. There is no reason for all hysteria over whether the game drops out of existence within the next few years.

 

And even if it DID, that's more than enough time to get your enjoyment out of it. A game is either worthy of supporting Now, or it isn't. Leave the worries about what EA is doing to the self important pseudo journalists and 'insiders' and enjoy your game.

Tell that to Star Wars Galaxies It's dead.

[Emeda]

i have tried reading this 5 times. I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Is it safe to say that English isn't your first language?

 

 

There was a post on the forums from some yellow at bioware saying this. I will try to find it but if anyone finds it first please do link for him.

[mdob]

I believe everything before 1.3 was essentially beta testing and EA pushed the game out 6 months too early.

 

All the subscription losses and bad press can be attributed to this and I'm guessing the post 1.3 numbers (subscription retention) will be better and show a more accurate picture of what we can expect for SWTOR long term.

Edited July 26, 2012 by mdob
clarified that I was referring to subscription retention

[Nerdcommando]

Thought this was a "Bebe's Kids" reference....

 

"We're Bebe's Kids, we don't die, we multiply."

[jarjarloves]

That the call on page 3.

http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx?pindex=4

 

"To-date, we have sold through more than 2 million units. Our sell through success to-date is not as apparent to the public because nearly 40% of the December sell-through went through Origin, which is not recorded by third-party data services. This was achieved with the level of Q3 marketing well above that of a AAA holiday quarter launch."

 

http://kennethmarkhoover.me/2012/01/22/swtor-is-fastest-selling-game-in-history-and-its-only-week-4/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/Global/

 

Note that is physical copies sold. Thats 2 million copies. Now remember that quote from the EA call I listed about. 40% of the sales in dec were not recorded bt third party data services so add 40% to 1.75 million and thats roughtly 700k. Now add up the 2millionand the 700k and you have 2.7 million actual games sold via hard copy and origin.

 

Now for a little more math. As of feb 1st anyone who cancelled their sub did so within 10 days of it being able to be recorded since the first day a sub could have been officially cancelled was jan 20th. Now again we know they stated they had 1.7 million subs on feb 1st so that means 1 million people had already cancelled within 10 days of being able too.

 

That sounds nothing like what Bioware said. Now I dont know if bioware actually said it or not that they lost 300k subs but if someone has a link of them saying that then that shows that they were lying.

 

Then again when they said 400k sub loss in the next call they did not add in all the new accounts they got that would have added to the 400k to make it bigger. Wasnt the asia launch included in that call numbers?

 

Do I really need to list anymore?

 

Bioware knew the numbers but said over 2 million so that when they said they had only 1.7 million subs it would look as bad. But saying that a million subs quit that soon would have made it so they couldnt say it was a successful launch.

 

what's your point?

 

 

also SWG lasted for 9 years and had 4 expansion packs. That's an amazing life for a MMO. Especially one plagued with as many problems as SWG had.

 

You are also wrong on your interpertaion of the numbers. the 2.2 million IS with the digital sales. How do I know that they have to tell you the total number in the sales call. They also can't lie about how many subs they have that would be illegal and get the entire company shut down. So if they say they had 2.2 million copies sold and 1.7 million subs that is 100% offiical.

 

They are very clearly saying 40% of the 2.2 million where digital sales. If you remember back in December when it launched

 

See once again you show how bad you are at reading comprehension.

[Emeda]

what's your point?

 

 

also SWG lasted for 9 years and had 4 expansion packs. That's an amazing life for a MMO. Especially one plagued with as many problems as SWG had.

 

You are also wrong on your interpertaion of the numbers. the 2.2 million IS with the digital sales. How do I know that they have to tell you the total number in the sales call. They also can't lie about how many subs they have that would be illegal and get the entire company shut down. So if they say they had 2.2 million copies sold and 1.7 million subs that is 100% offiical.

 

They are very clearly saying 40% of the 2.2 million where digital sales. If you remember back in December when it launched

 

See once again you show how bad you are at reading comprehension.

 

What they said is"To-date, we have sold through more than 2 million units" Thats more than 2 million, what number above that we do not know yet.

They also said sites could not track origin sales so any site like http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/Global/ will not include origin sales. Please explain how they got those numbers when Bioware just told us that they couldnt track them?

 

So my math is correct and all you are doing as assuming what you want to because you would rather think that they only lost 500k subs instead of 1 million.

 

That was Biowares intention. To say they sold more than 2 million (they did not lie since 2.7 million is more than 2 million) and with saying above 2 million it makes it look like they only lost 300k which is a 85% retention rate. Now if they would have actually told you the real number of 2.7 then thats about a 62% retention rate. Doesnt sound as good does it. Now dont forget in the money numbers they added in all 2.7 million because cancellations cannot be seen there.

 

Thats Bioware/Ea saying things in their wording to make it look best for them.

 

Lets also not forget that when they dropped from 1.7 to 1.3 they said 400k which also isnt the real truth. Subs dropped 400k but thats not the actual amount of subs that cancelled in that time. Again tell it in a way that makes them look best.

 

BTW SWG'sbiggest sub losses where when they released the CU and again when they released the NGE. The game lost subs because they changed the game in a large way. SWTOR's biggest losses are now. SWG had about 300k subs for 2 full years. I believe SWTOR is actually close to that now in only 7 months when they started at 2.7+ while its been said that SWG never sold over 1.5 total.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Emeda

[mdob]

SWTOR's biggest losses are now. SWG had about 300k subs for 2 full years. I believe SWTOR is actually close to that now in only 7 months

 

What evidence do you have for this? I believe the Server Transfers and Group Finder were huge improvements that should increase subscription retention in a big way.