Deception Sin is Broken

[Asphen]

She plays all three specs and rotates them as she has interest, or something along those lines. She even has videos up of playing it since 1.3. She has also posted a lot and made videos on the subject, much of which I have seen and read. When she does comment on it, she has said very clearly that for Infiltration (Deception) she wants to stack power and get crit as low as even 20%. I was actually personally involved in one of the discussions where she defends this decision so I remember it clearly.

 

The girl is not a goddess.

 

Stop placing her on a pedestal. She doesn't use focus target, and she doesn't assist.

[Asphen]

Actually after having sleept and had abit time to give it some thought I believe that if swtor would fix their incombat system, so it was not broken as ****, then deception assassins would proberly be pretty solid, but beeing forced to stay in combat for 30+ secs after you break stealth is broken as ****. If they fixed like wow, lets say 5 sec w/o player interaction would take you out of combat, then I could see deception beeing alot more viable from that alone, since you would be able to utilize Dark Embrace on a regulaer basis, wich would give you the dmg your looking for, and be able to setup burst on a competetive basis.

 

 

This I'll buy into.

 

It takes VASTLY longer than 8 seconds to get out of combat. Fixing the get out of combat timer should be the #1 step.

 

I'd like to see a 5 second cast time 'spell' that when you complete it without being hit, you are out of combat.

[Skolops]

The girl is not a goddess.

 

Stop placing her on a pedestal. She doesn't use focus target, and she doesn't assist.

 

Nobody''s placing her onto any pedestal, and anyone reading the thread - or even the posts in which she was mentioned - thoroughly would know that. She was mentioned a couple of times as an individually skilled player who has put a lot into understanding the class and whose opinions have weight. Whatever strengths or weakness she may have as team player is not really relevant to this.

[Boarg]

I can tell you from experience of having geared it both ways that the difference between a 30% crit rating and 400 power and a 20% crit rating with 850 power is HUGE, in favor of the latter.

 

You also need to keep in mind that its not the score you get at the end of the warzone that matters for a Deception Assassin - its the kills, and you're going to get a heck of a lot more kills with power over crit.

 

Stacking power lets you take down that healer. Stacking crit lets you raise that healer's final score.

 

The thing is, he's actually more right than you are. People seem to think, oh, I went from 400 power to 800 power...that's twice as much! I'm gonna hit twice as hard! But when you run the numbers that extra power is only a small sliver of the total hit.

 

Is it technically better than putting those numbers into crit? For most of the quantity, yeah, it usually is. There's an objective, ideal stat balance in there somewhere.

 

But the point is, the difference isn't nearly as big as many make it out to be. Trading a few stat points around won't make a sub-par spec good.

 

But we should all listen to you because you tried it out and the difference is HUGE... It's a lot like the crazy audiophiles that think their silver wires sound so much better than copper ones....ignore the measurements, my ears have spoken! The difference is HUGE! Just try it for yourself; you'll see (or hear) too!

 

You're far from the only one who's tried changing stats, and there's others that actually quantified the difference (including the crit side of things, not just power) to keep their perspective grounded in reality.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Boarg

[Skolops]

The thing is, he's actually more right than you are. People seem to think, oh, I went from 400 power to 800 power...that's twice as much! I'm gonna hit twice as hard! But when you run the numbers that extra power is only a small sliver of the total hit.

 

Is it technically better than putting those numbers into crit? For most of the quantity, yeah, it usually is. There's an objective, ideal stat balance in there somewhere.

 

But the point is, the difference isn't nearly as big as many make it out to be. Trading a few stat points around won't make a sub-par spec good.

 

But we should all listen to you because you tried it out and the difference is HUGE... It's a lot like the crazy audiophiles that think their silver wires sound so much better than copper ones....ignore the measurements, my ears have spoken! The difference is HUGE! Just try it for yourself; you'll see (or hear) too!

 

You're far from the only one who's tried changing stats, and there's others that actually quantified the difference (including the crit side of things, not just power) to keep their perspective grounded in reality.

 

You're yet another person responding to things that neither I nor anyone else said.

 

There is no claim that increasing power takes Infiltration from being a mediocre spec to a great one. Neither I nor anyone else has even come close to suggesting as such.

 

What has been asserted is that stacking power over crit is the correct gearing approach for playing Infiltration - nothing more, nothing less - and that is what he and I disagree about. I have provided more, I think, than sufficient mathematical evidence to demonstrate that he is in fact incorrect in this regard.

 

That extra 400 - 500 power results in an extra 800 - 1000 burst damage, which is incredibly significant.

[Astarica]

Power versus crit is a stupid debate. It's clearly by design power gives you more total DPS and crit gives you more burst and since Assassins have crit on demand (Recklessness) and probably another 9% from Exploitive Strikes you might as well go with power, but it's not like you're figuring out something nobody has ever figured out, and while crit < power in overall DPS it's not like it gives 0 overall DPS either just like power indeed adds a lot to burst DPS potential (less than crit, but still a lot).

 

The four powerful ACs (Op/Tankasin/Marauder/PT) are not only strong but they all have 'clutch' moves so to speak. Heard that sound of that grappling hook? That's the sound of your death because you just got yanked from your well protected position into the middle of 3 PT + Marauders. Unless you've an equally clutch ability like Force Camo or Force Speed + Disjunction, that's likely the end of you and usually only one of the 4 chosens specs have such a move. Even the PT who is probably the least 'clutch' in terms of movesets have at least one go to move that I always dread hearing when playing on any of my characters. And if you look up 'clutch moves in SWTOR" you'd probably find a picture of a Marauder dueling a Tanasin.

 

Now it's okay for classes to have strong movesets and yet these classes all easily outperform any other class in similar functions. In an ideal world PT should be an average DPS and Marauder and Tankasin should be below average DPS because they've crazy moves to rely on, but in the real world PT is top DPS and Marauder/Tankasin are competitive for top DPS. The Sniper is the one class that has the overall balance right. This class does a ton of damage but I really can't think of any move I'd consider as 'clutch', but that's okay because the class does a ton of damage to make up not having a trump card like grapple. Deception Assassins have no real trump card either so they should do a ton of damage too, just like Sniper, except they don't even do that.

[Gidoru]

I've played all 3 specs and a handful of hybrids and I keep sticking to madness (either 7/3/31 or 3/7/31), I have 1084 max weapon dmg, 41-42% crit, 73-74% surge, 470-520 power depending on the gear I flip between. Stacking more power than crit is the trick to being able to do any damage on any spec, stalker gear adds waaaaaaaaaaay too much crit (36% after operative buff is about as far as you should go).

 

Even then, deception is just.... garbage, it takes too long to setup and has no defense while setting up, so you absolutely must catch the target by surprise to get the upper hand in pvp.

 

Ummm if stacking more power than crit is the trick to being able to do any damage, why do you have 41% crit?

I have 1156 weapon damage with 36% crit by stacking mostly power . There is no way you achieved 41% without stacking crit.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Astarica]

Ummm if stacking more power than crit is the trick to being able to do any damage, why do you have 41% crit?

I have 1156 weapon damage with 36% crit by stacking mostly power . There is no way you achieved 41% without stacking crit.

 

I always think it's funny people wearing the same WH gear as I do somehow have more total power + crit, and sometimes more power AND crit because clearly if you're good enough at this game, you'd get better stats on your gear even if you're wearing exactly the same thing as someone else. Or do people still think you can trade accuracy for Power or Crit even though that's actually not possible?

[Gidoru]

I always think it's funny people wearing the same WH gear as I do somehow have more total power + crit, and sometimes more power AND crit because clearly if you're good enough at this game, you'd get better stats on your gear even if you're wearing exactly the same thing as someone else. Or do people still think you can trade accuracy for Power or Crit even though that's actually not possible?

 

Actually you can trade accuracy for power and crit. Im at 94.5% and have no problems.

[Astarica]

Actually you can trade accuracy for power and crit. Im at 94.5% and have no problems.

 

Enhancement only come in Power + Accuracy, Crit + Accuracy, Power + Surge, or Crit + Surge flavors. You trade Accuracy for Surge. Power + Crit is a fixed number that can never go higher than a certain number.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Astarica

[Gidoru]

Enhancement only come in Power + Accuracy, Crit + Accuracy, Power + Surge, or Crit + Surge flavors. You trade Accuracy for Surge. Power + Crit is a fixed number that can never go higher than a certain number.

 

Except that replacing those accurracy enhancements with surge enhancements allows you to itemize for power on other pieces of gear. If you have nothing but the base surge provided on the Stalker set you might have 70-72% surge which is too low. If you do not change enhancements and want to increase your surge you either need to augment for surge, taking up a slot that would otherwise be power, or get the surge pvp relic, again taking up a slot that would otherwise be power.

 

So replacing the mostly useless accuracy with surge enhancements overall gives you better stat itemization.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Astarica]

Except that replacing those accurracy enhancements with surge enhancements allows you to itemize for power on other pieces of gear. If you have nothing but the base surge provided on the Stalker set you might have 70-72% surge which is too low. If you do not change enhancements and want to increase your surge you either need to augment for surge, taking up a slot that would otherwise be power, or get the surge pvp relic, again taking up a slot that would otherwise be power.

 

Power and Crit comes from one pool of stats and Surge and Accuracy comes from another pool of stats. A Power + Surge enhancement has the same power as a Power + Accuracy enhancement if they're the same tier.

 

There are some stuff with especially high power/crit that have lower mainstat/endurance. I won't attempt to deduce which is better but suffice to say you're looking at a different kind of tradeoff there. Even on the gear you cannot see the mods, they all have an implied enhancement/mod inside them that obeys the normal tradeoff ratio.

[Gidoru]

Power and Crit comes from one pool of stats and Surge and Accuracy comes from another pool of stats. A Power + Surge enhancement has the same power as a Power + Accuracy enhancement if they're the same tier.

 

There are some stuff with especially high power/crit that have lower mainstat/endurance. I won't attempt to deduce which is better but suffice to say you're looking at a different kind of tradeoff there. Even on the gear you cannot see the mods, they all have an implied enhancement/mod inside them that obeys the normal tradeoff ratio.

 

No actually im not.

 

Consider two scenarios. Im mostly making guessing/making up numbers here.

A. You have 70% Surge. You want to increase this value without changing enhancements. You have say 600 power without augmenting or having a relic

B. I have 78% Surge by changing enhancements from Accuracy. I dont not need to increase my surge value and i also have 600 power without augmenting or having a relic

 

You have 2 options.

1. Augment for Surge

2. Relic for Surge

I think it might be overall better to just get the augments but i dont feel like doing the math.

 

A. gets 6 Surge augments and 1 Surge relic. A gains 169 Surge and 61 crit rating.

B gets 6 Power augments and 1 Power Relic, B gains 282 Power.

 

So now, A has the same amount of surge, but has 282 less power.

 

If on the other hand, A does not want to increase Surge, then B has 8% more crit damage in place of a mostly useless stat, accuracy, so B still has superior itemization.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Astarica]

No actually im not.

 

Consider two scenarios. Im mostly making guessing/making up numbers here.

A. You have 70% Surge. You want to increase this value without changing enhancements. You have say 600 power without augmenting or having a relic

B. I have 78% Surge by changing enhancements from Accuracy. I dont not need to increase my surge value and i also have 600 power without augmenting or having a relic

 

You have 2 options.

1. Augment for Surge

2. Relic for Surge

I think it might be overall better to just get the augments but i dont feel like doing the math.

 

A. gets 6 Surge augments and 1 Surge relic. A gains 169 Surge and 61 crit rating.

B gets 6 Power augments and 1 Power Relic, B gains 282 Power.

 

So now, A has the same amount of surge, but has 282 less power.

 

If on the other hand, A does not want to increase Surge, then B has 8% more crit damage in place of a mostly useless stat, accuracy, so B still has superior itemization.

 

I'm assuming people who talk about min maxing stats have already taken the appropriate Power + Surge or Crit + Surge augments. Obviously 18 Power > 18 Surge so you should never augment for Surge if you can get it elsewhere. I didn't know DPS put anything besides Overkill augments on their gear.

 

If you already done all the reasonable swaps your total power + crit is fixed so it's not possible to get the total number any higher unless you start dropping endurance/mainstat for it by taking the few weird mods that have especially high Power/Crit but especially low endurance.

[Gidoru]

I'm assuming people who talk about min maxing stats have already taken the appropriate Power + Surge or Crit + Surge augments. Obviously 18 Power > 18 Surge so you should never augment for Surge if you can get it elsewhere. I didn't know DPS put anything besides Overkill augments on their gear.

 

If you already done all the reasonable swaps your total power + crit is fixed so it's not possible to get the total number any higher unless you start dropping endurance/mainstat for it by taking the few weird mods that have especially high Power/Crit but especially low endurance.

 

Its really not difficult to understand. I dont see why you're having such a hard time with this.

 

If a player does not change enhancements and wants to gain surge they must augment for it. In this case they are missing out on Power. By changing out accuracy enhancements for surge enhancemenets you are INDIRECTLY giving yourself more power in the sense that you do not have to augment for surge. Therefore any augment you would have had to waste on surge is now replaced by power, so this is a gain in power.

 

If you do not augment for surge or change enhancements then you have significantly less surge than a player who has changed enhancements while also having more accuracy than you need and therefore you still have inferior itemization.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Boarg]

You're yet another person responding to things that neither I nor anyone else said.

 

There is no claim that increasing power takes Infiltration from being a mediocre spec to a great one. Neither I nor anyone else has even come close to suggesting as such.

 

What has been asserted is that stacking power over crit is the correct gearing approach for playing Infiltration - nothing more, nothing less - and that is what he and I disagree about. I have provided more, I think, than sufficient mathematical evidence to demonstrate that he is in fact incorrect in this regard.

 

That extra 400 - 500 power results in an extra 800 - 1000 burst damage, which is incredibly significant.

 

Lets say you have a power stacker that ditches all their crit, and a balanced gearset guy that keeps 200 crit and puts the rest into power.

 

200 power results in 48.3 extra weapon damage and 48.3 extra force damage.

 

So, damage coefficients for the hard hitting abilities:

 

1.74 - Force Breach

1.85 - Project

2.37 - Shadow Strike

3.09 - Spinning Strike

 

Assume a target with 35% armor reduction and 12% internal/elemental reduction. Pretty much middle of the road in pvp. Also, 75% base crit multiplier. Assume having 2 stacks of CS for Project and 5 stacks of Exit Strategy for Force Breach for maximum effect. Assume Shadow Strike is used with Find Weakness proc only.

 

 

Extra damage on non-crits:

 

Force Breach = 48.3*1.74*(1-0.12)*1.3 = 96.15

Project = 48.3*1.85*(1-0.35)*1.3 = 75.50

Project w/ Upheaval proc = 75.50*1.5 = 113.25

Shadow Strike = 48.3*2.37*(1-0.21) = 90.43

Spinning Strike = 48.3*3.09*(1-0.35) = 97.01

 

Extra damage on crits:

 

Force Breach = 96.15*(1+0.75+0.50) = 216.34

Project = 75.50*(1+0.75+0.50) = 169.88

Project w/ Upheaval proc = 169.88*1.5 = 254.82

Shadow Strike = 90.43*(1+0.75+0.30) = 185.38

Spinning Strike = 97.01*(1+0.75) = 169.77

 

 

This is closely representative of the increases you would actually see in game on crits and non-crits. Not bad and it all adds up, but it's not exactly impressive in a world where these abilities can crit for what they do even without these extra amounts.

 

Now comparatively, going from 0 to 200 critical rating increases critical hit chance by 7.81%.

 

Then you pop those two guys into Simcraft and run 20k iterations or something…and the guy that kept 200 crit does more dps. And then you try them both in real pvp, and in my experience they both burst hard enough to kill people easily, but the extra average sustained damage from the more frequent crits is able to partially remedy a weakness in the spec which is sustained damage.

 

This doesn't mean you go "oh, crit > power !!!1!1" and start stacking crit (WoW player mentality)…because adding the next 200 crit doesn't look as good. It just means run a properly balanced gearset.

 

 

As for folks inferring too much from your previous posts… It's a thread about the viability of a spec with lots of people essentially saying learn to play or learn to gear -it's okay / not so bad. People tend to assume its related to the thread topic. And the same criticism can go for me here, too…I'm pretty far off into the woods at this point just clarifying the crit vs. power thing.

[Boarg]

Its really not difficult to understand. I dont see why you're having such a hard time with this.

 

If a player does not change enhancements and wants to gain surge they must augment for it. In this case they are missing out on Power. By changing out accuracy enhancements for surge enhancemenets you are INDIRECTLY giving yourself more power in the sense that you do not have to augment for surge. Therefore any augment you would have had to waste on surge is now replaced by power, so this is a gain in power.

 

If you do not augment for surge or change enhancements then you have significantly less surge than a player who has changed enhancements while also having more accuracy than you need and therefore you still have inferior itemization.

 

You just don't seem to be seeing how this gear tweaking stuff works for people who know what they're doing. People are smart enough to augment willpower (or at least power as a close 2nd for Infiltration) and they wouldn't in a million years augment surge or accuracy or something like that. They know to use power relics. Anything else is just asking to gimp your whole gearset when it gets to final stats.

 

All that leaves is tweaking mods and enhancements. And there's only a limited set of options with those.

 

The first option is high base stats or low base stats in both slots. However, with enhancements the only base stat is endurance, so there's not really an option there for a dps player.

 

From there, the stat slots on the mods and enhancements only trade surge for accuracy and crit for power. There are no options to trade accuracy for power or crit for surge, etc. Does not exist.

 

A full war hero set has 530 combined surge and accuracy...you can't reduce it any lower than that and still use war hero gear. And 530 is already enough that people generally wish they could trade a little bit of it away for power or something, but they can't. Of course you can increase that amount with augments, but it would be a really, really bad thing to do because it comes at the expense of much more valuable stats.

[Skolops]

You just don't seem to be seeing how this gear tweaking stuff works for people who know what they're doing. People are smart enough to augment willpower (or at least power as a close 2nd for Infiltration) and they wouldn't in a million years augment surge or accuracy or something like that. They know to use power relics. Anything else is just asking to gimp your whole gearset when it gets to final stats.

 

All that leaves is tweaking mods and enhancements. And there's only a limited set of options with those.

 

The first option is high base stats or low base stats in both slots. However, with enhancements the only base stat is endurance, so there's not really an option there for a dps player.

 

From there, the stat slots on the mods and enhancements only trade surge for accuracy and crit for power. There are no options to trade accuracy for power or crit for surge, etc. Does not exist.

 

A full war hero set has 530 combined surge and accuracy...you can't reduce it any lower than that and still use war hero gear. And 530 is already enough that people generally wish they could trade a little bit of it away for power or something, but they can't. Of course you can increase that amount with augments, but it would be a really, really bad thing to do because it comes at the expense of much more valuable stats.

 

What are you talking about? If course you can trade it away and still use War Hero gear. You put in the armoring from the base WH pieces, get the mods from some other preferable item - Force Mystic's Gloves, for example - and boom - no accuracy.

[Gidoru]

You just don't seem to be seeing how this gear tweaking stuff works for people who know what they're doing. People are smart enough to augment willpower (or at least power as a close 2nd for Infiltration) and they wouldn't in a million years augment surge or accuracy or something like that. They know to use power relics. Anything else is just asking to gimp your whole gearset when it gets to final stats.

 

All that leaves is tweaking mods and enhancements. And there's only a limited set of options with those.

 

The first option is high base stats or low base stats in both slots. However, with enhancements the only base stat is endurance, so there's not really an option there for a dps player.

 

From there, the stat slots on the mods and enhancements only trade surge for accuracy and crit for power. There are no options to trade accuracy for power or crit for surge, etc. Does not exist.

 

A full war hero set has 530 combined surge and accuracy...you can't reduce it any lower than that and still use war hero gear. And 530 is already enough that people generally wish they could trade a little bit of it away for power or something, but they can't. Of course you can increase that amount with augments, but it would be a really, really bad thing to do because it comes at the expense of much more valuable stats.

 

Those people who have good reading comprehension and are good enough to know what they are doing will notice that i am a correct and there is nothing wrong with what im saying. I went out of my way to state it in the simpliest terms, but apparently my point escaped you.

 

Enhancements from Warzone Gear come in 4 types.

1. Power and Accuracy,

2. Power and Surge

3. Crit and Surge

4. Crit and Accuracy

 

Now, most WH sets have 2 pieces enhancements that have either Crit Surge, or Power Surge, and 3 pieces that have Crit Accuracy or Power Accuracy.

Therefore, if you were to swap out an Accuracy enhancement for a Surge Enhancement, you GAIN SURGE, and LOSE ACCURACY.

 

Since the goal of most players is to get Surge rating to amount to about 78% Crit damage, you need more than the base enhancements on the given set in order to achieve this number.

 

Suppose for a moment that you have no intention of swapping out any of the enhancements on your base set. You will probably ONLY have 70-72% crit damage increase. Therefore, if you wanted to increase it without swapping enhancements as i just mentioned, the only means of doing this would be to augment for surge.

 

Now there are 2 possible outcomes of this scenario.

 

1. You augment for Surge and as a result are missing out on some Power augments from the slots augmented with Surge. Therefore, a player who DID swap enhancements and reached the desired amount of surge without augments has a greater amount of power, given that he has augmented for Power. He also has less accuracy, but seeing as this state is largely unnecessary, this doesnt matter.

Therefore you can conclude that as a result of swapping enhancements the second person has *****INDIRECTLY**** increased his power as well.

 

2. You do not augment for Surge and instead augment for Power or otherwise Willpower. In this case you have the same amount of Power as someone who swapped enhancements, but LESS surge.

Therefore in this case, your gearing is still NOT OPTIMAL because you are missing surge while having an over abundance of accuracy.

 

Since the original contention was that one cannot gain Power by swapping enhancements, and my response was that you indeed can, i think i have adequately proven that i am correct. You CAN infact gain power although INDIRECTLY by swapping enhancements.

To say that you CAN do something is to suggest it is a possibility, not that it is a certainty. Therefore i was not saying that you ALWAYS gain power by swapping enhancements.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Gidoru

[Astarica]

What are you talking about? If course you can trade it away and still use War Hero gear. You put in the armoring from the base WH pieces, get the mods from some other preferable item - Force Mystic's Gloves, for example - and boom - no accuracy.

 

The Force Mystic has additionally the Power + Alacrity or Crit + Alacrity flavors which no Assassin would ever use.

 

Force Mystic set tends to come with more of the High Power + Low Endurance or High Crit + Low Endurance variants of the standard mods. That said it's pretty obvious what you're giving up when you take those mods. The drop off in Endurance is quite noticeable so it's not something you get for free.

[Astarica]

I didn't think there are people who put Surge augments over Power/Willpower/Crit because they didn't have enough Surge. If you want more Surge, I think Force Mystic earring has Surge + Power.

[PowerReaper]

Use a hyrbrid build if its that big a deal, try Arika or something like that. Deception is so useless and just wow underpowered =/

[Skolops]

The Force Mystic has additionally the Power + Alacrity or Crit + Alacrity flavors which no Assassin would ever use.

 

Force Mystic set tends to come with more of the High Power + Low Endurance or High Crit + Low Endurance variants of the standard mods. That said it's pretty obvious what you're giving up when you take those mods. The drop off in Endurance is quite noticeable so it's not something you get for free.

 

Well for one thing, you are playing Infiltration. You're not really interested in an extra 1000 or so Endurance. That said, the Force Mystic's gloves have a high endurance mod and a lower endurance enhancement. You could also get the Force Master's boots, which have a much higher power mod but lower endurance on it, with higher endurance on the enhancement.

 

Or, if you really want that endurance, you could get both and take the mod from one and the enhancement from the other. Whatever the case may be, the point is that you are incorrect: you can get rid of your accuracy to whatever degree you would like in favor of power and surge while still wearing War Hero.

[foxmob]

I enjoyed playing deception in pvp, but it IS useless in pve, and it lacks utility in pvp (compared to tank in stalker gear). if you have a tank with two sets of gear....man....do that. so yeah. deception is fun, but I'd take the versatility of a darkness assassin 10/10 times in my premade/rwz team.

[Gidoru]

I didn't think there are people who put Surge augments over Power/Willpower/Crit because they didn't have enough Surge. If you want more Surge, I think Force Mystic earring has Surge + Power.

 

What do you not understand about the following sentence. I have stated it atleast 3 times.

 

*******HYPOTHETICAL********

If you were to use your BASE SET (STALKER SET) and you did not intend to swap out enhancements, then you would NOT have the ideal amount of Surge and therefore IF YOU WERE SO INCLINED, the only way to increase your surge to would be augment for surge.

 

Now assume for a moment the above is true. If you wanted to get the ideal amount of surge you would lose out on power augments, meaning that someone who DID swap enhancements for Surge and did not augment for surge has MORE POWER THAN YOU DO.

 

This statement does not in any way suggest that one SHOULD augment for Surge or whether people do or do not augment for Surge.

 

This merely suggests that if you wish to get your ideal stat distribution, which includes having your ideal power and crit, you need to swap enhancements and lose accuracy. Therefore, where a properly min/maxed character is concerned(ie someone with 77-78% crit damage) swapping enhancements indirectly provides you with more power.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Gidoru