Skolops Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 That is funny, since the dev in charge of WvWvW, Mike Ferguson, specifically says: Yes, The Mists is the name for the Warzone Lobby in GW2. It's NOT the open world PvP area. You are demonstrating how very little you actually know about this game. I'd suggest learning about it before zerging to it as the next great thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 As another poster pointed out, you're the one who is completely wrong. You don't get bolstered in open world WvWvW PvP, only in their version of Warzones. Read it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Yes, The Mists is the name for the Warzone Lobby in GW2. It's NOT the open world PvP area. You are demonstrating how very little you actually know about this game. I'd suggest learning about it before zerging to it as the next great thing. This will help you to get things right. http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world Edit: You are thinking Heart of the Mists, which is the Warzone equivalent. Trust the people who played, you are definitely bolstered in WvWvW. Edited July 28, 2012 by Scritchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirn Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 That is funny, since one of the devs in charge of WvWvW, Mike Ferguson, specifically says: Yes and you will be as effective as a lvl 10 in the 10-49 bracket because you won't have all your skills. You can go there, but you won't make a meaningful contribution until you level up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 This will help you to get things right. http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world Ok, here's what you're misunderstanding. When you enter WvWvW, your LEVEL gets side-kicked to 80, but your skills and gear do NOT. This is why when you watch the DEVELOPER videos explaining it, they suggest lower level characters entering WvWvW should try to participate in some of the PvE components of the WvWvW objectives, like resource gathering, to try to contribute, because they will have a very hard time against other players of higher levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 If guild wars didn't look like every other fantasy game out there I might buy it. I prefer sci-fi over fantasy. BW probably figures that there's nothing they can do to keep ppl going to GW2. It's gonna happen regardless of anything tyhey do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadjay Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 While I'm still enjoying SWTOR and would like to see it succeed and remain a quality AAA MMO that I could enjoy for years to come, I can see the writing on the wall. Bioware is trying to pretend that everything is fine and keep saying that they are dedicated to continuing to put out high quality content but the problem is that EA isn't, they thought they could take the Starwars IP, make a MMO clone, bolster it with the "story" pillar and poof, the WOW killer. well, it didn't work. Too much was spent on "story" and not enough on things like the engine so we could actually fight more than 8 other players without it turning into a slide show, or maybe putting in features that are common place in today's MMO market, let alone do anything innovative or new ( aside from voice overs). This game had huge pontental and maybe there is a small chance it still does but with Bioware now running on a skeleton crew it seems unlikely that anything truly exceptional is coming out anytime soon. As far as I can see it, BW has one month to implement something truly amazing or we have one more month before we return to pre 1.3/ server merge numbers. While some of you say we don't care if you leave for GW2 and " enjoy your GW2" "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and all that, well, lots of people are going to leave whether you like it or not. Maybe GW2 isnt for everyone, i can see and acept that but there are more people who will be leaving on a month later for MoP whether you like that or not. The thing you should care about is pop numbers, Aug. 25th and Sept. 25th is a huge 1-2 punch that is going to be really hard for SWTOR take. I'm going to get all I can out of this game until then but as a PvPer if they don't come out with atleast a plan for open world PvP that knocks my socks off in the next month I think SWTOR will be down for the count come Sept 25th. Just my 2c, flame all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 While I'm still enjoying SWTOR and would like to see it succeed and remain a quality AAA MMO that I could enjoy for years to come, I can see the writing on the wall. Bioware is trying to pretend that everything is fine and keep saying that they are dedicated to continuing to put out high quality content but the problem is that EA isn't, they thought they could take the Starwars IP, make a MMO clone, bolster it with the "story" pillar and poof, the WOW killer. well, it didn't work. Too much was spent on "story" and not enough on things like the engine so we could actually fight more than 8 other players without it turning into a slide show, or maybe putting in features that are common place in today's MMO market, let alone do anything innovative or new ( aside from voice overs). This game had huge pontental and maybe there is a small chance it still does but with Bioware now running on a skeleton crew it seems unlikely that anything truly exceptional is coming out anytime soon. As far as I can see it, BW has one month to implement something truly amazing or we have one more month before we return to pre 1.3/ server merge numbers. While some of you say we don't care if you leave for GW2 and " enjoy your GW2" "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and all that, well, lots of people are going to leave whether you like it or not. Maybe GW2 isnt for everyone, i can see and acept that but there are more people who will be leaving on a month later for MoP whether you like that or not. The thing you should care about is pop numbers, Aug. 25th and Sept. 25th is a huge 1-2 punch that is going to be really hard for SWTOR take. I'm going to get all I can out of this game until then but as a PvPer if they don't come out with atleast a plan for open world PvP that knocks my socks off in the next month I think SWTOR will be down for the count come Sept 25th. Just my 2c, flame all you want. Like I said, I think it's becoming more and more clear that it's the non-competitive, open world PvP crowd that is really looking to leave for GW2. I don't think the game is going to retain many hardcore PvPers for very long. Whether they return to TOR, go back to WoW, or do something else I'm not sure, but I just can't see them sticking with GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Ok, here's what you're misunderstanding. When you enter WvWvW, your LEVEL gets side-kicked to 80, but your skills and gear do NOT. This is why when you watch the DEVELOPER videos explaining it, they suggest lower level characters entering WvWvW should try to participate in some of the PvE components of the WvWvW objectives, like resource gathering, to try to contribute, because they will have a very hard time against other players of higher levels. But your gear and skills DO level. You don't hit like a level 5 once you go into WvWvW, you hit like an 80 wearing your equivalent gear at 80. You don't get the extra skill points or traits that an 80 will have, but the stuff you have unlocked definitely does level (any weapon skills and traits). The devs are saying you will be at a disadvantage against an 80, which makes sense. Their gear will have more bonuses than yours. You can still contribute, though. And unlike the other guy said, you won't feel compelled to grind just to contribute. It is like the bolster in 10-49 warzones. Oddly enough, a lot of people think 10-49 warzones are fun and 50 warzones are frustrating. Like I said, I think it's becoming more and more clear that it's the non-competitive, open world PvP crowd that is really looking to leave for GW2. I don't think the game is going to retain many hardcore PvPers for very long. Not sure how you can say only non-competitive PVPers are looking forward to GW2. Their version of warzones are the very definition of competitive, there is no gear, it is all skill. That is what competitive PVPers want, a skill vs skill environment, not this gear vs gear until you are all finally maxed then it is skill vs skill. Edit: And I'm fairly certain that competitive players are looking forward to the tournament system being implemented. Edited July 28, 2012 by Scritchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 and then there will be QQ'in about balance and lack of PvP there to and the cycle repeats its self till the next mmo that comes out so you can go there and do the same to. i got to say you mmo players are consistent if nothing else i'll give you that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) But your gear and skills DO level. You don't hit like a level 5 once you go into WvWvW, you hit like an 80 wearing your equivalent gear at 80. You don't get the extra skill points or traits that an 80 will have, but the stuff you have unlocked definitely does level (any weapon skills and traits). The devs are saying you will be at a disadvantage against an 80, which makes sense. Their gear will have more bonuses than yours. You can still contribute, though. And unlike the other guy said, you won't feel compelled to grind just to contribute. It is like the bolster in 10-49 warzones. Oddly enough, a lot of people think 10-49 warzones are fun and 50 warzones are frustrating. Not sure how you can say only non-competitive PVPers are looking forward to GW2. Their version of warzones are the very definition of competitive, there is no gear, it is all skill. That is what competitive PVPers want, a skill vs skill environment, not this gear vs gear until you are all finally maxed then it is skill vs skill. People enjoy lowbie warzones because everyone there sucks (less presssure to perform well) and there are few if any premades. Same reason people prefer regular WZs vs. RWZs. This is the same reason why people prefer huge world pvp. When in big zergs, individual skill doesn't really matter much. All that matters is numbers, and class comp (having healers). Edited July 28, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 But your gear and skills DO level. You don't hit like a level 5 once you go into WvWvW, you hit like an 80 wearing your equivalent gear at 80. You don't get the extra skill points or traits that an 80 will have, but the stuff you have unlocked definitely does level (any weapon skills and traits). The devs are saying you will be at a disadvantage against an 80, which makes sense. Their gear will have more bonuses than yours. You can still contribute, though. And unlike the other guy said, you won't feel compelled to grind just to contribute. It is like the bolster in 10-49 warzones. Oddly enough, a lot of people think 10-49 warzones are fun and 50 warzones are frustrating. I've seen it explained several times, and I am quite certain that you are incorrect. Gear does not level in WvWvW. Not sure how you can say only non-competitive PVPers are looking forward to GW2. Their version of warzones are the very definition of competitive, there is no gear, it is all skill. That is what competitive PVPers want, a skill vs skill environment, not this gear vs gear until you are all finally maxed then it is skill vs skill. I say this because from what I have seen of the structured PvP, it's just not good. It's different and so its attracting people, but I really, truly don't think its got the characteristics that are going to retain people. The real sign, I think, is in that the biggest item people are pointing to is the gear thing. You see people talk about liking other aspects of it sometimes, but not usually. It's usually all about the gear. I think once that novelty wears off, you'll see people start to leave. It's hard for me to put it into words, exactly, its just that when I look at what their PvP is and how it works, it doesn't strike me as having much longevity with the truly competitive. On the other side of things, there's the fact that at least 80% of the time when I see people excited about the game, they mention and focus on large, open world PvP. Like I said, the more I read people posting about it, the more it becomes clear that these posts are very, very often concerned with world PvP - which ArenaNet themselves specifically say is not meant to be balanced or competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Not sure how you can say only non-competitive PVPers are looking forward to GW2. Their version of warzones are the very definition of competitive, there is no gear, it is all skill. That is what competitive PVPers want, a skill vs skill environment, not this gear vs gear until you are all finally maxed then it is skill vs skill. Edit: And I'm fairly certain that competitive players are looking forward to the tournament system being implemented. iunno about that. It could just be the loud minority, but I think "competitive pvpers" like getting "leet gearz" and status symbols to rub in "baddies'" faces. I think if they couldn't get their super leet gear, they wouldn't play. case in point: the first guild I was in wouldn't run nightmare mode for a month after farming hard mode on all sorts of mains and alts. why? as our defacto guild leader said, "there's no point. it's the same gear." eventually (like 2 weeks before 1.2 hit) they did a title run. the guild was not full of crap players. in fact, the guy who said that was probably the best sage on server. but he also had that kind of cocky attitude that you find in pvpers (which of course he also did). I can just imagine him and ring-leaders like him leading leading their followers off to something else if there's no gear incentive for pvp. Edited July 28, 2012 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDLION Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Honestly, GW2 sux I've been in the last couple Beta weekends and that is really aweful. I know it's a Beta, but damn! Honestly, I really don't see any game out there or in development that grabs me. All I do is PVP, and I'll take SWTORs warzones over GW2 WVW laggy, buggy, setup. I will say that SWTOR needs to hurry up and give us more warzones and open world PVP ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synxos Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 While I'm still enjoying SWTOR and would like to see it succeed and remain a quality AAA MMO that I could enjoy for years to come, I can see the writing on the wall. Bioware is trying to pretend that everything is fine and keep saying that they are dedicated to continuing to put out high quality content but the problem is that EA isn't, they thought they could take the Starwars IP, make a MMO clone, bolster it with the "story" pillar and poof, the WOW killer. well, it didn't work. Too much was spent on "story" and not enough on things like the engine so we could actually fight more than 8 other players without it turning into a slide show, or maybe putting in features that are common place in today's MMO market, let alone do anything innovative or new ( aside from voice overs). This game had huge pontental and maybe there is a small chance it still does but with Bioware now running on a skeleton crew it seems unlikely that anything truly exceptional is coming out anytime soon. As far as I can see it, BW has one month to implement something truly amazing or we have one more month before we return to pre 1.3/ server merge numbers. While some of you say we don't care if you leave for GW2 and " enjoy your GW2" "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and all that, well, lots of people are going to leave whether you like it or not. Maybe GW2 isnt for everyone, i can see and acept that but there are more people who will be leaving on a month later for MoP whether you like that or not. The thing you should care about is pop numbers, Aug. 25th and Sept. 25th is a huge 1-2 punch that is going to be really hard for SWTOR take. I'm going to get all I can out of this game until then but as a PvPer if they don't come out with atleast a plan for open world PvP that knocks my socks off in the next month I think SWTOR will be down for the count come Sept 25th. Just my 2c, flame all you want. This^ EA already said Tiger Woods is more important to them than this game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) EA already said Tiger Woods is more important to them than this game.... So was the women he cheated on his wife with... oh wait. Edited July 28, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 While I'm still enjoying SWTOR and would like to see it succeed and remain a quality AAA MMO that I could enjoy for years to come, I can see the writing on the wall. Bioware is trying to pretend that everything is fine and keep saying that they are dedicated to continuing to put out high quality content but the problem is that EA isn't, they thought they could take the Starwars IP, make a MMO clone, bolster it with the "story" pillar and poof, the WOW killer. well, it didn't work. Too much was spent on "story" and not enough on things like the engine so we could actually fight more than 8 other players without it turning into a slide show, or maybe putting in features that are common place in today's MMO market, let alone do anything innovative or new ( aside from voice overs). This game had huge pontental and maybe there is a small chance it still does but with Bioware now running on a skeleton crew it seems unlikely that anything truly exceptional is coming out anytime soon. As far as I can see it, BW has one month to implement something truly amazing or we have one more month before we return to pre 1.3/ server merge numbers. While some of you say we don't care if you leave for GW2 and " enjoy your GW2" "don't let the door hit you on the way out" and all that, well, lots of people are going to leave whether you like it or not. Maybe GW2 isnt for everyone, i can see and acept that but there are more people who will be leaving on a month later for MoP whether you like that or not. The thing you should care about is pop numbers, Aug. 25th and Sept. 25th is a huge 1-2 punch that is going to be really hard for SWTOR take. I'm going to get all I can out of this game until then but as a PvPer if they don't come out with atleast a plan for open world PvP that knocks my socks off in the next month I think SWTOR will be down for the count come Sept 25th. Just my 2c, flame all you want. everything is there for open world pvp ilum its a open zone where you can pvp you just wont go there because theres no rewards, if you want rewards go do raids where you get loot drops pvp is about killing other players NOT REWARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyube Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) I say this because from what I have seen of the structured PvP, it's just not good. It's different and so its attracting people, but I really, truly don't think its got the characteristics that are going to retain people. The real sign, I think, is in that the biggest item people are pointing to is the gear thing. You see people talk about liking other aspects of it sometimes, but not usually. It's usually all about the gear. I think once that novelty wears off, you'll see people start to leave. It's hard for me to put it into words, exactly, its just that when I look at what their PvP is and how it works, it doesn't strike me as having much longevity with the truly competitive. On the other side of things, there's the fact that at least 80% of the time when I see people excited about the game, they mention and focus on large, open world PvP. Like I said, the more I read people posting about it, the more it becomes clear that these posts are very, very often concerned with world PvP - which ArenaNet themselves specifically say is not meant to be balanced or competitive. Think i adressed this multiple times in this topic but three times is the charm. A large part of the pvp crowd will get their full wh gear soon, but for various reasons have no rated wz team (lets face it ,the rated implementation in this game starts to become rather hilarious). What goal is their for those people to pvp ? What kind of longetivity is there in swtor to entertain those people? Weirdly enough the act of pvp'ing is already fun enough for a lot of people and not the gear grind cause thats just a means to an end and for some it's an actual barier to enjoy pvp. People can still grind to rank 70 in GW2 if they so desire and all signs point to the fact that it might take a while before you reach that. Besides that gw2 gives hardcore pvp'ers one of the best carrots in the entire game. Exclusive gear and if you manage to win a monthly / yearly tournament everyone who plays gw2 pvp will know since there will be a giant monument with your name on it. So yeah gw2 already offers more then this game did before 1.3 and obviously it managed to keep you entertained. The WvsW thing. People are excited since not a single mmo since dark age of camelot has done such a thing and thus its unique in the current mmo scene. Its easily marketable so it make sense that they take that aspect of the game and mention it to everyone who wants to hear it. Furthermore people who have fond memories of dark age of camelot and maybe even the first version of av in WoW hope to find some of those old memories back in wvsw. That doesnt mean people arent interested at all in spvp, it' s just harder to market and explain to people what makes it better and different from other games. You're honestly the perfect example. In the last bwe there where always more then 370 game going in Europe alone, and countless tournaments. The interest was so great in it that the servers couldnt handle the load. I wonder if swtor could actually boast those numbers ever during its lifetime. But yeah, this topic might aswel be called SOOOOO....GW2 and MOP are comming since the pvp and pve of MOP is better then swtor as well so you end up with a game which does nothing remarkable and it remains to be seen if the downsized Bioware Austin can actually save this game. Finally most of you act like people who grew disapointed in gw2 would magically return to this game with barely any new content. Why wouldn't they go too MOP? Especially since a lot of swtor players have a wow past. Edited July 28, 2012 by kyube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 iunno about that. It could just be the loud minority, but I think "competitive pvpers" like getting "leet gearz" and status symbols to rub in "baddies'" faces. I think if they couldn't get their super leet gear, they wouldn't play. case in point: the first guild I was in wouldn't run nightmare mode for a month after farming hard mode on all sorts of mains and alts. why? as our defacto guild leader said, "there's no point. it's the same gear." eventually (like 2 weeks before 1.2 hit) they did a title run. the guild was not full of crap players. in fact, the guy who said that was probably the best sage on server. but he also had that kind of cocky attitude that you find in pvpers (which of course he also did). I can just imagine him and ring-leaders like him leading leading their followers off to something else if there's no gear incentive for pvp. The vast majority of players want "leet gearz", including me. It's a core part of the RPG genre, and why people enjoy RPG games. They love getting that new "shiny". People still play even if there's no new gear to get, but they certainly won't play as much if there's no new gear to grind, or something to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoLombardi Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 You're forgetting GW2 is probably going to be bad. I played the beta and sadly it was a COMPLETE letdown. Have fun paying for everything. But i mean... Im a juggernaut and im happy with pvp. >.> Wait until you hit endgame pvp. Then there is NO FoTM classes. Trust me. Everything balances out. You don't have to pay for anything besides the game....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 You don't have to pay for anything besides the game....... He is a Jug that doesn't believe there are any FOTM classes and that end game PVP is balanced, why even bother talking to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 The vast majority of players want "leet gearz", including me. It's a core part of the RPG genre, and why people enjoy RPG games. They love getting that new "shiny". People still play even if there's no new gear to get, but they certainly won't play as much if there's no new gear to grind, or something to grind. first ever RPG games i have played and reasons why final fantasy - storyline best ones ever elder scrolls - storyline baulders gate - storyline there's more but am sure you can see the pattern if the storyline of the game is not gripping and i dont get a feel for the toon am playing it gets shelved fast just like fallout 3, heavily sword and two worlds did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 first ever RPG games i have played and reasons why final fantasy - storyline best ones ever elder scrolls - storyline baulders gate - storyline there's more but am sure you can see the pattern if the storyline of the game is not gripping and i dont get a feel for the toon am playing it gets shelved fast just like fallout 3, heavily sword and two worlds did Gear is not the main reason why I play RPGs, but it certainly is part of the reason. Character progression is important to me. That includes plot and char dev as well as gear. And Fallout 3 had a good story, whatchu talking about mang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liammozz Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 And Fallout 3 had a good story, whatchu talking about mang. haha i have tried to play it three times i get to the same point every time the first village with the big bomb in the middle and just go ughhh and stop playing i dunno why but it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 everything is there for open world pvp ilum its a open zone where you can pvp you just wont go there because theres no rewards, if you want rewards go do raids where you get loot drops pvp is about killing other players NOT REWARDS Everything is NOT there for open world PvP. Illum becomes a slide show when more than 16 people show up, and slows down considerably at 10. The game engine can't support it. Until BW fixes that, there's no point in open world on this game. People don't go to Illum because it sucks, period. Even when there were rewards for Illum it was dead last on my priority list because of the game engine problems, and I knew a lot of other people who felt the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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