Aim vs. Power (PVP)

[bumpy_anderson]

There have been several posts on the powertech forums about this subject. I was wondering if there are some differing opinions here. Personally, I've been stacking a fair amount of aim while keeping my power above 600. I've heard many mention hitting 2k aim which would be extremely difficult without using pve mods and/or a matrix cube rather than a WH relic. I'm basically wondering what some of you guys are doing.

[BlastingGravy]

Aim is undeniably better than power, because it give an increased crit chance in addition to bonus damage. So if the choice is as simple as choosing between an equal amount of aim or power, choose aim. Not all itemization decisions are that straightforward, however.

[bumpy_anderson]

Yeah, thats pretty much what I'm thinking. I've been focusing on getting my crit around 35% through aim and stack power from there.

[BlastingGravy]

The diminishing returns on crit chance for aim are negligible, so there is no reason to stop at a certain value of crit chance.

[Nezyrworks]

Aim is undeniably better than power, because it give an increased crit chance in addition to bonus damage. So if the choice is as simple as choosing between an equal amount of aim or power, choose aim. Not all itemization decisions are that straightforward, however.

 

While you are right, you are also very wrong. If your main goal is to get as much bonus damage as possible while still benefiting vastly from additional crit % from aim you should minimize the pre-buffed aim score, due to hardcap at around 1800 aim.

 

With power mods (mods not enhancements), you get more bonus damage while still having amount of bonus crit. Now if you splash 5% aim buff, and possible 9% aim tallent you will get to around 1800 (rakata stim might be good enough). Stacking aim above 1800 will hinder your damage benefited with crit ratio (crit returned per point above 1800 is just not worth the loss of aditional 0.03 damage per point of power vs aim).

 

Example:

War Hero Nimble mod 26a

+64 aim, +12 Power (64x0.2 + 12x0.23 = 15,56 damage)

Assuming your aim is at 1700 you will also get less critical % per point due to diminishing returns on Aim above soft cap 1550 and close prior 1800 hardcap)

 

War Hero Agile mod 26

+51 aim, +39 Power (51x0,2 + 39x0,23 = 19,17 damage)

Here the amount of crit per point-wise will be higher due to overall lower aim score.

 

You are also not taking into consideration that post buff, your aim will be 5% higher thus your critical % will benefit even less with having 5% plus to 1800 aim than 5% to 1700.

 

Per point power mods and enhancements are the best source of damage wise, BUT to keep crit on minimal 25% you should get to 1800 aim post buff while having all mods and enhancements with 39/41 power. This will also increase (and vastly overcap) your surge value because 41 power mods will result in additional 53 surge rating bonus.

 

PVP wise BURST is they key, that means high power and high surge is BETTER than aim.

 

My current stats are (buffed + rakata stim)

584.4 bonus damage

Crit chance: 32,15%

Accuracy: 91.90%

Surge: 79.39%

Tech Dam 919.4

tech crit: 33.31%

Edited July 14, 2012 by Nezyrworks

[BlastingGravy]

If your main goal is to get as much bonus damage as possible while still benefiting vastly from additional crit % from aim you should minimize the pre-buffed aim score, due to hardcap at around 1800 aim

Wouldn't your goal be to maximize total damage, rather than maximizing bonus damage? There is no hard cap at 1800 aim. Crit chance from primary stats are given by this formula:

30% * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) )

Like all diminishing returns formulas in TOR, it is an exponential decay function, so technically the hard cap is unreachable.

Example:

War Hero Nimble mod 26a

+64 aim, +12 Power (64x0.2 + 12x0.23 = 15,56 damage)

Assuming your aim is at 1700 you will also get less critical % per point due to diminishing returns on Aim above soft cap 1550 and close prior 1800 hardcap)

 

War Hero Agile mod 26

+51 aim, +39 Power (51x0,2 + 39x0,23 = 19,17 damage)

Here the amount of crit per point-wise will be higher due to overall lower aim score.

If you had read my post, you would have seen that I said that aim was superior if you were choosing between equal amounts of aim and power. The difference between the second mod you listed and the first is -13 aim and +27 power (I assume that the first mod has more endurance to make the overall stats even). This is hardly equal amounts.

You are also not taking into consideration that post buff, your aim will be 5% higher thus your critical % will benefit even less with having 5% plus to 1800 aim than 5% to 1700.

I did take those into consideration, please do not make baseless assumptions.

Per point power mods and enhancements are the best source of damage wise, BUT to keep crit on minimal 25% you should get to 1800 aim post buff while having all mods and enhancements with 39/41 power. This will also increase (and vastly overcap) your surge value because 41 power mods will result in additional 53 surge rating bonus.

I'm afraid that I don't know what you are trying to say here. What does power have to do with surge?

 

Ok, time for some math.

We'll start by assuming that you have 1800 aim while buffed, as you said. If I add 1 point of power, my bonus damage goes up by:

1*0.23*1.05=0.2415 (the 1.05 is from the knight buff)

If I add 1 point of aim, it goes up by:

1*0.2*1.05*1.05=0.2205 (the second 1.05 is from the consular buff)

Thus, the difference is:

0.2415-0.2205=0.021

So this is how much more bonus damage, per point, power gives you over aim. Now for aim's crit chance. At 1800 aim, your crit chance increases by approximately 0.005% per point. This makes your increased damage from this crit chance:

x*0.00005*1.05*0.5=0.00002625x (assuming base surge damage)

The variable x is the damage done by your attack. If we set this value equal to the difference in bonus damage, we can find the minimum attack damage value at which aim becomes more valuable than power.

0.00002625x=0.021 => x=800.

I am a vanguard tank, and nearly every single one of the attacks in my rotation hits for more than 800 damage. For a DPS, the idea that anything other than a DOT tick could hit for less than that is laughable. I do understand that the biggest single source of damage for an assault spec is their DOTs, so I'm curious, what do they tick for? Even if they ticked for considerably less than 800 damage, the increased crit damage on your harder hitting abilities should more than make up for it.

Also notice that I made two assumptions:

1. I used the base surge damage, ignoring any surge rating or tree talents.

2. I did not include aim-increasing tree talents.

Both of these factors, if included, would make the math favor aim to an even greater degree.

Edited July 15, 2012 by BlastingGravy

[Sanctusvox]

Good arguments for both sides. my 2cents. I have run stacking power. then i changed to stacking AIM. i decided to stay with stacking aim for now. The reason is i can take the 3 points from steely resolve and place them other places. I'm also bio-chem... so i can stem. Since i run assault my ion pulse is my slow and plasma cell dot. i can take 2 of the points that would have boosted aim and put them into frontline offense. giving me 6% more damage on my ion pulse. i use this as a power supplement. I am running a unique spec however, because i have tailored my gear to my style of play. So AIM vs. POWER is also about your bonus. if you have the eliminator set bonus then the natural crit to hib would be better matched with power. I am using the PvE set bonus to get an 8% damage boost to my hib. so Aim for me is way more important so i can max certain things in my build. Feel free to follow the links in my sig. i have videos of it in action.

[DenitharPurloin]

Aim is great to stack.

 

If you chose the 9% increase to aim AND have access to the consular/sorcerer buff 5% increase, it is much better than power.

 

2000 Aim: (2000 x 1.14 = 2280) 2280 x 0.20 = 456 Bonus Damage

2000 Power: 2000 x 0.23 = 460 Bonus Damage

 

So, if you have ready access to the consular buff (alt or friends) and have taken the 9% Aim bonus in your skill tree, the difference at 2000 stacked Power (absurd number) is still only 4 Bonus Damage, plus you get the effect of critical chance increase (diminished though it may be).

 

For a trooper, or a gunslinger...main stat is king. Not the same for a knight or a consular though.

[CivicTiger]

Aim is great to stack.

 

If you chose the 9% increase to aim AND have access to the consular/sorcerer buff 5% increase, it is much better than power.

 

2000 Aim: (2000 x 1.14 = 2280) 2280 x 0.20 = 456 Bonus Damage

2000 Power: 2000 x 0.23 = 460 Bonus Damage

 

So, if you have ready access to the consular buff (alt or friends) and have taken the 9% Aim bonus in your skill tree, the difference at 2000 stacked Power (absurd number) is still only 4 Bonus Damage, plus you get the effect of critical chance increase (diminished though it may be).

 

For a trooper, or a gunslinger...main stat is king. Not the same for a knight or a consular though.

 

He wins this thread.

imo even without 6-9% Aim talent, Aim is always, always, always better (in terms of augments)

Edited July 21, 2012 by CivicTiger

[KBsFuRy]

So AIM vs. POWER is also about your bonus. if you have the eliminator set bonus then the natural crit to hib would be better matched with power.

 

I couldn't agree more... QFT

[Praiden]

so i prefer 1250 aim from my gear which puts me just over 1800 aim fully buffed with my base aim. and start to stack power augs. overall i got to ~75% surge maybe a little higher because about 53 surge from 72% will get you just over 3% extra were another 53 surge on top of that is only a bonus 1.5% about. then i head to crit till you get 32% from gear cause buff are calculated after stats so the 3% talent and 5% from smugg is just flat and will get you to 40% with out DR affecting it at all(not sure when DR start to kick in for crit). then stack power from there on in. i do keep some accuracy on my gear just a little about 150 i think which is about 95%. though this is just my opinion and what i have noticed

 

I COULD BE WRONG

[Aelaias]

Why does having the eliminator set bonus make power stacking preferable especially from the perspective of one skill vs all the others.

[NoaFlux]

I know this might be a stupid question. But what should I do for Qyzen then?

 

I am trying to give him Aim then Power/Defense augs.

 

But my current ear piece has 33 power, and a good amount of strength 80. Plus endurance and accuracy.

 

Isn't that decent? Compared to just aim, endurance, and like 12% crit and surge I might get from a similar PvE piece?

Edited September 14, 2012 by NoaFlux

[DacRycar]

Coefficient of Power is .24.

Coefficient of Aim is .2.

 

Power will give you a tiny bit more but its not a huge deal - unless you're one of "those people."

 

As for myself, I did the Power thing. Now I just stack Aim. K.I.S.S.

 

I know this might be a stupid question. But what should I do for Qyzen then?

 

I am trying to give him Aim then Power/Defense augs.

 

But my current ear piece has 33 power, and a good amount of strength 80. Plus endurance and accuracy.

 

Isn't that decent? Compared to just aim, endurance, and like 12% crit and surge I might get from a similar PvE piece?

 

Just use the new Force Wave and don't be bias when making polls. Then stack Aim on Qyzen, but mostly work on getting your Presence as high as you can (Legacy, datacrons, etc). Presence will affect your companions greater than their primary stat. Some people even have a seperate set of gear augmented for Presence.

Edited September 14, 2012 by DacRycar

[NoaFlux]

I apologize if I made you mad I was just trying to help.

 

Also wanted to say sorry to the OP. I just realized this is for PVP. Forget I posted.

Edited September 14, 2012 by NoaFlux

[Infalliable]

The way they effect your stats, assuming you have the +9% aim buff and class buff they're almost the same with aim being slightly better.

 

B/c of how many of the items have their stats distributed, you usually are picking those that have the highest aim+power after you get the base accuracy, surge, and crit levels you want/need.

 

Like an earlier poster mentioned, one of the options is mod A or mod B with -13 aim and+27 power. Mod B is better, but not because it has more power. It's because it has +14 aim+power. It has more stat points total that add directly to damage.

 

 

Also don't worry about the diminishing returns on critical chance from aim. It's negligible. Critical chance is effected by both the "critical rating" secondary stat and aim. They're on 2 completely separate curves. The diminishing returns on critical chance are only significant from "critical rating."

Edited September 14, 2012 by Infalliable