Marauders are overpowered

[fujeo-finel]

Confirm/Deny?

[stringam]

Who cares? there will be another fotm soon and marauders will be nerfed and back to being free kills. Edited July 11, 2012 by stringam

[fujeo-finel]

Who cares? there will be another fotm soon and marauders will be nerfed and back to being free kills.

 

So you're ok with being overpowered because someone else will be overpowered later on?

[Nolenthar]

PvP, ? as long as PT/Vanguard exists, Marauder are not OP in PvP and Marauder can however easily be countered if you know how they work (like all classes), and some classes are clearly our nemesis (Marauder is gunslinger breakfast).

 

PvE ? we are the best melee dps class (single target) along with sniper being best single target range (better AOE though), capable of doing the most dps when fights allow us to do so (most of raid content is melee unfriendly) but on the meantime we're one of the 2 AC in the whole game who can't be anything else than dps, so the trade off is fair.

 

All content in the game can be cleared without a marauder.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nolenthar

[Helig]

Marauder is strong, but exactly overpowered? I wouldn't say so. It has its limitations, but I can definitely see it being toned down a little.

 

Frakking PTs drive me mad, though. 1200 expertise, 18kHP - half of it gone in a single stun. But, unlike the Operative, he can maintain solid pressure even after that burst, making the fight kind of one-sided if he gets lucky with crits. Buck armour penetration. Seriously. Buck it. I hate it with passion.

[Altheran]

Are they strong ? Yes.

 

Overpowered ? I don't think so, or at least not for all specs. The only two outrageous things that come to me are Undiying Rage when used at very low life, and Rage spec smash that deals too much damage for an AoE.

[fujeo-finel]

So am I correct in saying that you believe some aspects of the Marauder class should be toned down?

[G_Vega]

More like there are some aspects of EVERY class that seem overpowered.

[Helig]

So am I correct in saying that you believe some aspects of the Marauder class should be toned down?

 

Yeah, Camo shouldn't be a shield wall spell. Used to be a stealth\movement speed\hostile channel break\gap-closing cooldown. In 1.2 it got 50% damage reduction baseline.

 

Also, Cloak of Pain - free, 50% uptime in most situations, boosts raw mitigation to tank levels (and beyond for Ele\Int damage). Seriously, in Soresu stance, full Defense, my Guardian has 47-ish% damage mitigation. My Annihilation Marauder has 45 under Cloak of Pain. CLoP DR also doesn't seem to be subject to armour penetration (since it's not armour - just flat damage reduction).

Edited July 11, 2012 by Helig

[Altheran]

So am I correct in saying that you believe some aspects of the Marauder class should be toned down?

 

You can say "toned down" if you want...

Although some of the changes I have in mind look more like "mechanics changes" than a "tuning down".

 

For exemple, Undying Rage wouldn't cost 50% of current health anymore, but 10% of max health. The ability wouldn't be stuck at the "low-life use", but won't be quite free anymore. And it shouldn't mitigate environnement damage anymore, walking through fire in Huttball without being hurt is quite cheap.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Altheran

[fujeo-finel]

I'm not an expert on Marauders, so I can't add anything constructive. I'd rather ask the people who do play Marauders. So please, don't derail the thread.

 

On a semantic issue though, I'm asking whether or not Marauders are overpowered, not any of their abilities.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Notannos
rude quote

[Nolenthar]

Then I'm sorry.

 

Strong melee class with very good single target dps (annihilation spec) and very good AOE burst (if rage spec) that is shared with jug who does better at it.

 

Due to the fact it's only melee (oppositely to PT/Vanguard who have some long range abilities), Marauder have been given good defensive cooldown, which, when well used, can make a difference (+20% mitigation for 6 seconds, refresh on damage taken for max 30 seconds). It however wears medium armor compared to PT/Jug who have heavy armor and give them the same base mitigation than a marauder using CoP (which can easily fade off if no fight happening for 6 seconds)

 

Probably the most painful abilities the marauder have is Undying Rage which makes him immune to damage for 6 seconds at the cost of half his life (which if used at very low health means not much).

Consensus says that if a marauder is approaching 10% it's time to CC him as Undying Rage will be popping if off cooldown.

 

Marauder have bad CCs however with one AOE stun which breaks on damage and one channeling stun.

 

In PVE I already answered, best dps class along with sniper (which is ranged).

 

In PvP, when I face them, I clearly don't fear them more than many other classes. I generally struggle more against a jug who have more CC, or against a PT or a sniper (unless I can approach him without him noticing). I mostly PvP on a shadow for the reference.

 

I would answer no to your question. It's not OP imo.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nolenthar

[Kurfer]

Confirm/Deny?

 

If you think that title belongs to Marauders over Juggs and PT's then you have not been playing rated's...

[WaldoA]

Marauders are only overpowered if your stupid enough to stand and try out-damage them simply by bashing rotations, then again all classes would be overpowered that way..

 

Not hard to see that Marauder is a melee class, slows/knockbacks/DoTs and interrupts are free kills.

[basketballbum]

I'm not an expert on Marauders, so I can't add anything constructive. I'd rather ask the people who do play Marauders. So please, don't derail the thread.

 

On a semantic issue though, I'm asking whether or not Marauders are overpowered, not any of their abilities.

 

You obviously think marauders are op and got destroyed by at least 1 to start this thread on the marauder forum and none of the other class forums. No they are not op, I'm not trying to flame you or call you a troll but in general I'm sick of seeing other classes complain because they can't out damage a marauder, the only class which would have this as a semi viable argument is the sniper since they are the only pure dps ac. As far as our defensive cds the only one I think needs tweaking is undying rage and that is by reducing all incoming healing by 100% for 10 seconds after its activation.

 

If the other classes really want to have the capability to do the damage a marauder does then make them a marauder essentially. I'm saying take away tank's abilities to guard and taunt unless traited high in their tanking trees, take away healers ability to cast heals unless traited high in their healing trees. Then buff their upper level dps trees so they have the capability of dpsing like a marauder.

[Drator]

I think most classes are close to where they should be, however I do think sorc healers and merc dps need some sort of a buff in order to be desired in rated wzs. Edited July 11, 2012 by Drator

[Nolenthar]

I think needs tweaking is undying rage and that is by reducing all incoming healing by 100% for 10 seconds after its activation.

 

 

Then technically you can as well remove the ability.

[Helig]

Then technically you can as well remove the ability.

 

E-nope. It'll still be more useful than Enure.

[Nolenthar]

E-nope. It'll still be more useful than Enure.

 

Yes, but useless compared to force camouflage then.

[coldserpent]

I'm not an expert on Marauders, so I can't add anything constructive. I'd rather ask the people who do play Marauders. So please, don't derail the thread.

 

On a semantic issue though, I'm asking whether or not Marauders are overpowered, not any of their abilities.

 

With the title of this post, your statement shows a different agenda. If you're not willing to play one, and level it up to see for yourself, all this reeks of is a witch hunt, or someone who has a FotM playstyle.

[Helig]

Yes, but useless compared to force camouflage then.

 

Considering Camo is already *too* useful, fine by me, actually.

[Omophorus]

The only thing I'd consider overpowered is Force Camo.

 

I respect the argument that we need a way to escape combat as we're totally shackled to melee range to be effective, but the more I play, the more I think that the combination of offensive power and defensive cooldowns are sufficient to give us our niche, and that the vanish is excessive. The other melee ACs with stealth are squishy, and the other sturdy melee ACs don't have stealth.

 

What I would propose as a change is to remove the vanish aspect of Force Camo, but leave the threat modification mechanic untouched (to avoid breaking PVE). In exchange, Marauder should get a second off-GCD interrupt with a 30s-1m CD and a 30m range and 10m minimum range (not Force Charge... needs to be usable whilst rooted).

 

I frequently find myself using Force Camo as a way to interrupt a channeled attack, and removal of the cloak mechanic would necessitate an alternative way to gain some minimum level of protection from ranged damage. Greater vulnerability to Ravage would be annoying, but I don't have a fair or balanced answer for how to deal with it (I don't think Marauder should get a knockback).

 

That said, I'd miss being able use Force Cloak to quickly sneak past mobs in PVE, but that's a price I'll pay.

[Helig]

Disagree. I think Camo should just lose some (or even all) damage reduction. It's a stealth\disruption cooldown, not a shield wall.

 

Otherwise, it should remain the same.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Helig

[Smuglebunny]

another one of "these" threads to be ignored by BW.

[Nolenthar]

Considering Camo is already *too* useful, fine by me, actually.

 

Well, I don't know why I'm talking to you, whiner spotted.