End Game Woes & the LFG Tool without an iLvL ?

[Suromir]

Unless he can do it. I mean, I can probably make a Bird House out of fisher price tools.

 

you're just being simple here.

 

it's not to keep someone from enjoying the game, it's to keep the other 3 (7 in OPs) from having theirs ruined.

 

there should be a gear requirement for each queue with the LFG..fact.

 

you're extremely rude and arrogant to go into an HM FP (or Ops of either difficulty) w/o the health/mana/dps required to complete it. if you can't perform YOU are wasting EVERYONE ELSE'S time. fact.

 

they need to add a minimum gear iLvl requirement to queue for HM's and OPs of any flavor...set it to what is actually needed.....if you want to be carried through something by 3/7 others then get a guild and have them do it.

 

seriously, it's the undergeared person that's being arrogant/selfish here..not those simply asking someone be able to CONTRIBUTE (in a meaningful way) to a run.

[Mallorik]

You are reading my point backwards. It's the other people complaining that they have to carry others and want them removed from being able to try.

 

Nobody is trying to prevent anyone from trying new content. You just seem tot hink there should be no effort needed at all to progress in cotnent. You think its fine for someone to just skip content and the people who didnt skip it should be fine with picking up the slack.

 

You have been ranting on this board about people being "lazy" for months and months, yet you think it is just fine for someone to ding 50, que up for a hm fp in their green gear and expect a group of strangers to work twice as hard or even worse fail over and over wracking up a repair bill.

[KitePolaris]

Nobody is trying to prevent anyone from trying new content. You just seem tot hink there should be no effort needed at all to progress in cotnent. You think its fine for someone to just skip content and the people who didnt skip it should be fine with picking up the slack.

 

You have been ranting on this board about people being "lazy" for months and months, yet you think it is just fine for someone to ding 50, que up for a hm fp in their green gear and expect a group of strangers to work twice as hard or even worse fail over and over wracking up a repair bill.

 

Not only that, he gives the distinct impression it's everyone else's fault if this fresh 50 doesn't gear up. I have 4 50s. Every time I hit 50 o a new toon, the first thing I do is use all my comms to get mods from vendors and stick them in my gear and queue up for normals since the gear they drop is still decent. I have the humility and the respect for other players to not rush straight into HMs, let alone T2 HMs and the operations. Why should I rest my success betting on other people's efforts to get me there?

[Mallorik]

Not only that, he gives the distinct impression it's everyone else's fault if this fresh 50 doesn't gear up. I have 4 50s. Every time I hit 50 o a new toon, the first thing I do is use all my comms to get mods from vendors and stick them in my gear and queue up for normals since the gear they drop is still decent. I have the humility and the respect for other players to not rush straight into HMs, let alone T2 HMs and the operations. Why should I rest my success betting on other people's efforts to get me there?

 

And that is the way it is meant to be, The gear aside, i dont care how good you think you are at playing your class. When you hit 50 running normal mode fps will make you better.

[Daethorz]

Havent ran into issues yet with it, i started queing in full battlemaster.

 

Issue now is repetitiveness & not enough content to be amused, starting to feel like 4.3 Dragonsoul all over again sadly.

 

I will grab recruit gear & que for HM level 1's as soon as i hit 50, i feel i have enough skill to make up for my gear.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Daethorz

[KitePolaris]

Havent ran into issues yet with it, i started queing in full battlemaster.

 

Issue now is repetitiveness & not enough content to be amused, starting to feel like 4.3 Dragonsoul all over again sadly.

 

I will grab recruit gear & que for HM level 1's as soon as i hit 50, i feel i have enough skill to make up for my gear.

 

You've obviously never healed a Pyro PT in DPS recurit gear queued as a tank in a T2 HM.

[Desdecardo]

Well... you can just inspect their gear before they start. Pretty easy thing to do. Thats what I do.

 

And its really not that important for hardmodes flashpoints unless the rest of the team stinks. I've carrier people through those just so they could get the gear. Had the tank and dps with not a single piece of lvl 50 gear and we healed through and dropped HK without enraging.

 

I would suggest not complaining so much, points out your own flaws if you have to notice those things. And maybe stop playing games. Sounds like its a bit too stressful your your tastes.

 

And besides... most high end sets have mods that dont really make sense sometimes. So if you really want the perfect gear you are going to need to do a lot more work with a social guild like the OPs.

 

Also, if your healer can heal through 5-10 seconds of an enrage on a HM Flashpoint, they need to work on their gear.

 

Plus how would you figure out iLVL when the majority of the gear is modable? Makes the game even more dumbed down because you can just look at their gear and tell them to bugger off if the gear doesnt meet your high standards.

[KitePolaris]

Plus how would you figure out iLVL when the majority of the gear is modable? Makes the game even more dumbed down because you can just look at their gear and tell them to bugger off if the gear doesnt meet your high standards.

 

Gear already has an ilevel. And when you switch mods in and out, it changes with them. I.E. 140, 124, 136.

Edited July 8, 2012 by KitePolaris

[Skidrowbro]

Nobody is trying to prevent anyone from trying new content. You just seem tot hink there should be no effort needed at all to progress in cotnent. You think its fine for someone to just skip content and the people who didnt skip it should be fine with picking up the slack.

 

You have been ranting on this board about people being "lazy" for months and months, yet you think it is just fine for someone to ding 50, que up for a hm fp in their green gear and expect a group of strangers to work twice as hard or even worse fail over and over wracking up a repair bill.

 

First off, if you read my earlier posts in this thread, I have said HM's should not have been included with the LFG. Players should not be pugging HM's with randoms. All that is going to lead to is people like you complaining and the players who aren't geared complaining and asking for nerfs.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[Desdecardo]

seriously, it's the undergeared person that's being arrogant/selfish here..not those simply asking someone be able to CONTRIBUTE (in a meaningful way) to a run.

 

Its not under geared its under experienced. I've seen under geared people still out dps someone in full col gear. You can have people in the best gear and still stink. You can have someone who knows their roll and can bust through a HM.

 

To say someone who is under geared is immediately a load, is a generalization.

[KitePolaris]

Its not under geared its under experienced. I've seen under geared people still out dps someone in full col gear. You can have people in the best gear and still stink. You can have someone who knows their roll and can bust through a HM.

 

To say someone who is under geared is immediately a load, is a generalization.

 

When we say undergeared, we aren't saying oranges or even tionese/recruit (except for Tanking Capable classes who queue as tank when they are DPS). It's people who hop in there with greens, no relics, empty moddable gear. These things happen. No good player enters an HM with three 'semi-modded' pieces. I'm sorry.

[Tsillah]

You are reading my point backwards. It's the other people complaining that they have to carry others and want them removed from being able to try.

 

How does matching people remove anyone?

 

Surely, you are a troll.

[Skidrowbro]

How does matching people remove anyone?

 

Surely, you are a troll.

 

You are asking for it to match the perfect group for you. Guess what it won't. You want the perfect group, form it yourself.

 

Also, put this in the suggestions thread for adding a gear check for the LFG.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[JohnWinger]

I think something we can all do is if we run into a unguilded, under geared player in a instance or on fleet is feel them out. See what kind of attitude they have and maybe recruit them. Its hard to be a shy solo player sometimes you (the geared player) have got do the reaching out.

 

Tools that exclude players are bad. I understand the need to have geared people in nightmare and hard modes. But we cant get into the habit excluding players for SMs and regular FPs. You want the game to grow and be around a while. Help them out.

[Tsillah]

You are asking for it to match the perfect group for you. Guess what it won't. You want the perfect group, form it yourself.

 

Also, put this in the suggestions thread for adding a gear check for the LFG.

 

1) This is not what I am asking. That is simply your false interpretation, probably done on purpose.

2) I did put something in the suggestion box already last week. And before you start, I am not the OP of this thread.

3) You are dodging any form of argumentation and reasoning. You are most definitely a troll and apparently derailing this thread seems to be your object (to get it closed).

[Skidrowbro]

1) This is not what I am asking. That is simply your false interpretation, probably done on purpose.

Whining on the forums about an LFG that doesn't match you with the exact players you want

 

2) I did put something in the suggestion box already last week. And before you start, I am not the OP of this thread.

I didn't say you were the OP, just stating in general this should be in the suggestions forum

 

3) You are dodging any form of argumentation and reasoning. You are most definitely a troll and apparently derailing this thread seems to be your object (to get it closed).

Argument: "I want players with my gear expectations to be matched in the group Finder. Reasoning: "Form the group yourself"

[Elyx]

To the OP:

 

Your request isn't unreasonable nor unacceptable...I can understand why you make the requests that you do.

 

I've been playing MMO's since DAoC day. I remember researching ilvl back when it wasn't shown on the gear....i remember endless theorycrafting threads about RE'ing gear stats to get those calculations. Finally having the ilvl shown on the gear was a blessing and a curse when it finally happened. More of a curse, but it had its high points.

 

I'm against the current creation of the LFG tool completely. I'm against the idea of why one is necessary when they have done such a bang up job of merging servers. I won't argue the details because that would derail the thread. But the fact that it's here means we need to live with it. I can pretty much get a group together in the same amount of time that the LFG takes on my server. I know that lower population servers have it harder (i merged...it seemed the logical choice. worked out great).

 

The problem isn't the lack of ilvl (though it could "help"....not sure im convinced it would help more then hurt, but ill leave that on the table). The problem is the LFG tool becomes the standard the moment it's implemented. I knew this would happen...the pro-singers of LFG talked about it being an "Option", and indeed as it stands you don't "have to" use it. But your post OP pretty much shows that it is definitely the standard now, because it has become the method by which people compare how they can get groups and thereby get their "dailies" done.

 

The real issue is that Bio made it the standard by giving us rewards that overshadow ANY OTHER ASPECT OF THE GAME. there is NOTHING in the game that is more rewarding atm then using the tool. period. people who are gearing up in columni pieces will ignore Rakata (the next logical step) because its' simply too hard to get into runs to get those pieces. As ane example, LI only drops rakata off the LAST BOSS. why worry about that when you can run BH endless times and get 25 black hole comms a week? add in the 6 from the weekly, and your netting 40-41 comms without ever having to step into anything harder then HM BT.

 

There is no reason to NOT use the Finder now. there is no reason to run much other then one run a day. they bait and tag us with benefits that outperform anything else. It is no wonder that people are asking for their own additions to the finder. though the OP's request is understandable and withing logical reason, I wouldn't be suprised to see a ton of wild requests thrown out with this thing.

 

IN all actuality, they need to reverse the reward system. the reward for randomly pugging a slot or two should be the fast grouping time IN ITSELF. organizing a run with your guild or friends list is far harder...I think that the BH comms should be a reward for MANUALLY setting up a group, and the LFG should rewuard standard daily tokens (of which there is already a quest for...it should just automatically drop into your quest log when you queue for a pug). if they did that, then people would have allot of reason to MANUALLY set up their team...and those who "need" the LFG can still use it, and they will be rewarded by getting a group when other means are simply too difficult for them. it's not hard to impliment either...LFG has a random button and a manual button. manual button enabled, you select 4 people you choose yourself, and once the group is full it engages, and you can choose the run of your choice. random does it all....random.

 

this is the pivotal issue in just about every LFG/RDF tool i've seen to date. players have rapidly found that RDF/LFG nets the fastest results with the least amount of work and least amount of accountability. There is NO REASON why we should further emphasis a bad solution to a bad issue by rewarding those who choose the easy path (not easy bad...simply easier). its very logical...the reason why a pre-made meal is more expensive then buying similar quality ingredients and making it yourself....the reward is a fast meal with little effort. If pre-made meals were cheaper then making yourself....the grocery business would be OUT of business. that is not logical, and I don't understand why LFG should be illogical either. the reward is the fast group. the comms should be rewarded for manually setting up a group. not the other way around.

 

TL - DR: I don't disagree with your request OP, but The issue isn't lack of ilvl. It's a broke system that rewards people for being lazy and being unaccountable. you may not be either....but the system rewards them anyways. changing the rewards is a ncessity if the LFG system is going to be a positive addition to the game.

[Skidrowbro]

the reward is the fast group. the comms should be rewarded for manually setting up a group. not the other way around.

 

Finally, someone understands

[Madjuan]

I don't see how a 20-minute BT HM gets the same reward as 2.5 hours of mucking about with people in SM EV because the all of the DPS were undergeared...exaggeration? Nope, I had that experience tonight thank you very much.

 

I feel your pain. I've tried using group find to run sm ops a few times. One run lasted over three hours and we still couldn't kill SOA. It wasn't for lack of trying! Some people are simply not geared for these encounters and/or have no sense on how to play their character.

[Maigrey]

I think people are getting skill and gear confused.

 

You don;t know the skill of the player you are being grouped with, all you know is his gear, given even odds the player is good or bad, I will take the better geared player every time.

 

In short, i don't care if the bad geared player might have amazing skill or the good geared player might be poorly skilled, since the opposite is just as likely to be true, if not more so.

[Fardarter]

Yes, we need something to exclude others from enjoying the game with us and not helping them out. Please make it happen Bioware

 

I don't think its such a bad idea for hard-modes. If you don't have the gear you should be doing normal content until you have level 50 stuff. Also, what about the rest of the group? Isn't their enjoyment important too? More importantly though the devs need to make it so leaving a group that just started does not send you back to fleet it sends you into a black hole(should cut down on abuse). Also the group finder should be across all servers. The "community" argument so many people made goes out the window with large scale server transfers.

[Styxx]

I don't think its such a bad idea for hard-modes. If you don't have the gear you should be doing normal content until you have level 50 stuff. Also, what about the rest of the group? Isn't their enjoyment important too? More importantly though the devs need to make it so leaving a group that just started does not send you back to fleet it sends you into a black hole(should cut down on abuse). Also the group finder should be across all servers. The "community" argument so many people made goes out the window with large scale server transfers.

 

No, no and no. You got it all wrong.

 

You see.. we are expected to carry a blue/green/below 50 geared guy through all content. We are even asked to, because, poor them... they need a hand.

 

But we are forbidden to ask a minimum gear for certain content.. because, you see... they have every right to come in blues in Tier 2, but we don`t have the right to ask a minimum of Columi gear.. no siiir. And no, I don`t like boosting lazy bums through Lost Island on MY money. And no, they have no right to ask me to... they should stick to their Tier 1 and gear up... because blues will not be enough. There might be the brilliant player that MIGHT pull it off.. but I haven`t met her/him yet.

 

Funny how this goes only one way.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Styxx

[SeatherQ]

I

Finally, as an example, if said tool did exist and we were queued as a 4 man party with 2 tanks, 1 dps, & a healer in full Col/Rak/BH gear for a KP HM or an EC SM; surely it is more than reasonable to expect that the remainder of the players found via a tool would also be geared to a similar standard in order to give us a fighting chance of completing hard mode operations. Obviously then we still have communications issues for synchronisation of puzzles/bosses etc etc, but at least half the party wouldn't get wiped by the trash mobs in their Tio gear...

 

Personally I want there to be a gear-score requirement, but I think you are taking it to far to have them all match up to your gear level, this will just make ques take to long. The gear-score requirements should be based on the content you are queued for and should be based on what should reasonably be able to finish the content.

 

If I get into a group on one of my 50s for story kp or ev and I have more hp than one of the tanks that does not mean they don't have the gear to complete it, However I did get into a story KP where one of the tanks had 13k hp and the other was probably slightly above what should be required gear-wise.

 

There are giving black hole comms as a daily reward to give geared people an incentive to help others gear and experience more content and I am fine with doing some carrying but I want a realistic shot at finishing and getting my daily reward when I use the group finder and I don't need 7 other people in full Rakata or BH gear to do it, but if enough people are still in mostly greens it can become a problem.

[amnie]

may I ask why would a 'geared up' person run a hm fp (even LI) to begin with?

 

I tell you why: so you get the black hole coms.

 

here's the funny thing: I'm 100% convinced bioware added those so the geared up people would queue aswell - so in turn the people who normally wouldn't be able to do it can still get in a group for those runs. larger pool of people. nothing else. (and maybe because it takes a while to get the gear for hm denova if you only get the bh coms from story mode... heh. what do I know)

 

 

 

I still want to know how often it actually happens that you queue up for an operation run and it sends you into an ops with completely undergeared people. I still don't believe it's as common as people claim it is.

[TKMaster]

I quit WoW because my gear got caught between tiers. Edited July 9, 2012 by LexiCazam
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