So disheartened right now by PvP.

[Chemic_al]

Sins and Shadows supposedly got a nerf, and in PvP they still can run in tank stance, and do MORE dps than a DPS Sorc.

 

I have 1250 expertise, almost full WH yet I still see TANK stance Assassins outdps me by a fair margin.

 

I got hit today by Project ~4600, and Force Breach ~3900.

 

I'm lucky if my hardest hit, a death field crit does ~3.5k.

 

How come the metrics are not picking this stuff up? Is it because Sorcs do loads of AoE damage, so the numbers look good when in fact they are useless at burst and single target focus?

 

Either way, sorcs are a joke.

 

At least let us change our advanced class so I can have tank survivability and good dps. Because currently, I have neither.

[arkzehhh]

Tankasins still need a massive nerf in the damage department yeah, The funny thing is the only lvl 50 i have is an assasin. In before all the 'Im so bad, all i play is tankasin people post'.

 

/thread

[JeffIncredible]

You are absolutely right. This is not the class I signed up for.

[whattt]

My biggest bane atm is well geared/skilled pt's and vanguards.

 

The inability to cancel the slow proc+their ability to pull+their burst damage output makes me give up. I don't bother wasting a CD when I start taking a beating from one of the ones I know unless he is low on health. It's pointless to do otherwise.

 

I'll agree with you, next on that list is assassins/shadows... that's because of their high initial burst + spell immunity CD + force speed + ability to pull. We're an easy target for them and are victimized as a result.

 

Marauders, everyone seems to be having issue with them. As (as much as I hate to say it) DPS sorcs are a kite class... I think other classes may have it worse. We have more counters to work with, but the execution has to be precise. We fare better than some classes against them, but it's still a tough draw.

 

IMO there's some things that need some attention, but I honestly feel like no one is listening... we're all just unskilled and under geared in Bioware's eyes. It has nothing to do with the counters present and our ability to mitigate.

Edited July 7, 2012 by whattt

[FodderofCannon]

The reason no one is listening is all the sorcs re-rolled Maras and Sents.

[whattt]

The reason no one is listening is all the sorcs re-rolled Maras and Sents.

 

I'm posting here, so that's not entirely true.... although I am sure many have re-rolled.

[FodderofCannon]

I'm posting here, so that's not entirely true.... although I am sure many have re-rolled.

 

Yeah I tried my sorc again , respecced a few times trying to find a dps combo that works, but basically nothing I do compares to my other dps classes. Basically I do ok when I'm not being chased the whole map by bands of sents and or pyros. The dumb ones I kill, but otherwise it' no contest. On my Sent, Jugg, Vang and Shadow there is no Sage/Sorc that I can't kill. Never met one that din't go down in seconds really, save a healer that just healed himself and kited me till his team arrived, and really that was my own fault.

 

Yeah some "Elitz's" might make it work, but really? Why bother? Just roll a class that can compete on a even playing ground., because its pretty clear to me that this class is the red-headed step child of pvp dps classes.

[whattt]

I think the biggest issue with sorcs getting a buff is the fact that our class in tied in with healers.

 

A minor improvement on any scale ties into the fact of keeping our teams alive... which many sorcs don't care to do, nor are spec'ed to do.

 

But because of this it makes it more problematic.

 

If the ability seems viable, some will go hybrid just for the talent.

 

If it's across the board then it becomes unfair to other healer classes.

[Helig]

Sins and Shadows supposedly got a nerf, and in PvP they still can run in tank stance, and do MORE dps than a DPS Sorc.

 

I have 1250 expertise, almost full WH yet I still see TANK stance Assassins outdps me by a fair margin.

 

I got hit today by Project ~4600, and Force Breach ~3900.

 

I'm lucky if my hardest hit, a death field crit does ~3.5k.

 

How come the metrics are not picking this stuff up? Is it because Sorcs do loads of AoE damage, so the numbers look good when in fact they are useless at burst and single target focus?

 

Either way, sorcs are a joke.

 

At least let us change our advanced class so I can have tank survivability and good dps. Because currently, I have neither.

First, Darkness Sins in PvP DPS gear are pretty much DPS, because right now their armour values are closer to heavy armour DPS than to tanks.

 

Second, they have a lot of multitarget moves that rack up their damage on the scoreboards - and not the useful kind of damage.

 

Third, you were hit for that much by a Deception Assassin\Infil Shadow.

 

 

 

Not saying that Sorcs don't need some love though. They do. But things aren't as bad as some people make them look. I do just fine on my Balance Sage. It's all about positioning, situational awareness and picking targets.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Helig

[Chemic_al]

First, Darkness Sins in PvP DPS gear are pretty much DPS, because right now their armour values are closer to heavy armour DPS than to tanks.

 

Second, they have a lot of multitarget moves that rack up their damage on the scoreboards - and not the useful kind of damage.

 

Third, you were hit for that much by a Deception Assassin\Infil Shadow.

.

 

The shadow was running Combat Technique. I checked. And I'm more than capable of identifying which stance a shadow or assassin is in, and on a side note rather presumptuous of you to tell me what stance a Shadow was in, in a game you weren't part of.

 

Even if alot of their damage is multi-target - hmm let me think, kinda like sorcs, they can still hit a single target far harder than we can. What damage is a sorc putting out that is actually useful then? You know the sort of burst that maras, pts and sins are doing?

 

And I'm sure us sorcs would love to be able to dps and get some ability that buffed our passive mitigation up to heavy armour levels. Never mind the self heals through uninteruptable harnessed darkness/shadows coupled with a damage buff, force shroud, pull, aoe slow, taunts, spikes, stealth, mind trap etc. Keep saying sorcs are a utility class, but Assassin have alot more than sorcs do. Heck don't even have an execute move.

 

Sick of being told we're a kiting class when the other melee classes have the tools to counter everything we can do to kite them.

[Helig]

The shadow was running Combat Technique. I checked. And I'm more than capable of identifying which stance a shadow or assassin is in, and on a side note rather presumptuous of you to tell me what stance a Shadow was in, in a game you weren't part of.

 

Even if alot of their damage is multi-target - hmm let me think, kinda like sorcs, they can still hit a single target far harder than we can. What damage is a sorc putting out that is actually useful then? You know the sort of burst that maras, pts and sins are doing?

 

And I'm sure us sorcs would love to be able to dps and get some ability that buffed our passive mitigation up to heavy armour levels. Never mind the self heals through uninteruptable harnessed darkness/shadows coupled with a damage buff, force shroud, pull, aoe slow, taunts, spikes, stealth, mind trap etc. Keep saying sorcs are a utility class, but Assassin have alot more than sorcs do. Heck don't even have an execute move.

 

Sick of being told we're a kiting class when the other melee classes have the tools to counter everything we can do to kite them.

Combat Technique Force Breach doesn't hit that high. It just doesn't. I can believe that a Particle Accelerated Potency Project hit as hard as it did, but not Breach. Unless it was Shadow Technique Force Breach.

 

Sins are in a fairly nice place now. Raw physical mitigation is at Vengeance Juggernaut levels (outside Unstippable\Enraged Defense), self-healing is fairly tame, and they don't do as much burst as regularly as Marauders\Vengeance Juggs. They can surely dish out a lot of pain in a short time, but that requires a setup, unlike the charge=>Ravage=>Impale=>Scream=>Throw combo. As far as single target DPS goes, it's rather mediocre, especially compared to the competition.

 

I'm more concerned about geared PTs right now. If they get lucky, they can eat through more than a half of a decently-geared character's HP bar in one stun. Buck armor penetration. Seriously.

 

Yes, you *are* a kiting class. Problem is with the chaotic nature of random PvP. 1 vs 1, I can kite even marauders (unless they outgear\outskill me by a fair margin) as Balance Sage. But when you get charged from 5 directions, and immobilized every 5 seconds, there isn't much you can do. That's why I'm a proponent of giving Sages\Sorcs an accessible talent that would break snares and roots on Force Speed (better yet, makes them immune to them for the duration), because so far, roots are the most annoying thing for me when I'm kiting. Especially with the number of roots available to players in PvP.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Helig

[Boyana]

I think the biggest issue with sorcs getting a buff is the fact that our class in tied in with healers.

 

A minor improvement on any scale ties into the fact of keeping our teams alive... which many sorcs don't care to do, nor are spec'ed to do.

 

But because of this it makes it more problematic.

 

If the ability seems viable, some will go hybrid just for the talent.

 

If it's across the board then it becomes unfair to other healer classes.

 

Give us Healing/Dps Stance where in Healing Stance you can use 'xxx' spell but not in DPS Stance and vise versa.

[Chemic_al]

Combat Technique Force Breach doesn't hit that high. It just doesn't. I can believe that a Particle Accelerated Potency Project hit as hard as it did, but not Breach. Unless it was Shadow Technique Force Breach.

 

Good thing I have combat logging then:

 

[16:42:06.885] [@Shadow] [@Me] [Project {876461091192832}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4905* kinetic {836045448940873}) <4905>

 

[16:48:21.084] [@Shadow] [@Me] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (3921* internal {836045448940876}) <3921>

 

I can assure you this Shadow was running Combat Technique.

 

Yes Powertechs and Vanguards are a huge problem too, but I'm posting this because as a sorc DPS I should not be outdpsed by a class running a tank stance with tank talents, even with dps gear.

 

Basically, our damage is no where near on par with how fragile we are. I can't for a single moment fathom why Bioware seem oblivious to this rather glaringly obvious point.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Helig]

Good thing I have combat logging then:

 

[16:42:06.885] [@Shadow] [@Me] [Project {876461091192832}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4905* kinetic {836045448940873}) <4905>

 

[16:48:21.084] [@Shadow] [@Me] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (3921* internal {836045448940876}) <3921>

 

I can assure you this Shadow was running Combat Technique.

 

Yes Powertechs and Vanguards are a huge problem too, but I'm posting this because as a sorc DPS I should not be outdpsed by a class running a tank stance with tank talents, even with dps gear.

 

Basically, our damage is no where near on par with how fragile we are. I can't for a single moment fathom why Bioware seem oblivious to this rather glaringly obvious point.

To be fair, Darkness has a lot of talents that can be classified as DPS, unlike the Guardian Defense tree, for example, which is mainly resource conservation, utility and threat. A lot of Darkness\Kinetic mechanics are, plainly put, DPS mechanics, like stacking, unloading, procs, procs amplified by cooldowns. So I would classify a DPS-geared Kinetic Shadow running in Combat Technique a DPS character, as opposed to a tank.

 

I'd also be very careful about buffing Sorc damage - particularly, Internal\Elemental attacks. I'm all for honest Kinetic\Energy attacks getting a well-deserved, albeit controlled boost, though.

[Chemic_al]

To be fair, Darkness has a lot of talents that can be classified as DPS, unlike the Guardian Defense tree, for example, which is mainly resource conservation, utility and threat. A lot of Darkness\Kinetic mechanics are, plainly put, DPS mechanics, like stacking, unloading, procs, procs amplified by cooldowns. So I would classify a DPS-geared Kinetic Shadow running in Combat Technique a DPS character, as opposed to a tank.

 

Fine call them a DPS character, doesn't change the fact it's a dps with a TON of survivability, utlity and defensive cooldowns, effectively heavy armour that can, rubbing salt into a wound, outdps their sorc counterparts that have no defensive cooldowns, and no burst damage.... and just poor tree design. They have two dps trees already, shouldn't be doing that dps in tank tree. It's plain stupid.

 

I'd also be very careful about buffing Sorc damage - particularly, Internal\Elemental attacks. I'm all for honest Kinetic\Energy attacks getting a well-deserved, albeit controlled boost, though.

 

That's just a start, they need an "oh ****" button too.

[Helig]

[

Fine call them a DPS character, doesn't change the fact it's a dps with a TON of survivability, utlity and defensive cooldowns, effectively heavy armour that can, rubbing salt into a wound, outdps their sorc counterparts that have no defensive cooldowns, and no burst damage.... and just poor tree design. They have two dps trees already, shouldn't be doing that dps in tank tree. It's plain stupid.

Not a *TON* of Survivability. Not after the nerf. Yeah, I envy Resilience with all the blackness of my heart. But other than that, they don't really have strong defensive cooldowns, unless we count Harnessed Shadow'd TK throw as a healing "cooldown". I find that my Marauder has more staying power than DPS-geared Tankasin.

 

That's just a start, they need an "oh ****" button too.

A good start would be root-break on Sprint. It's my biggest "want" on my Sage.

[Chemic_al]

Ability to stealth, mind trap and seethe when one on one useless too? Heck even just stealth when a fight goes south.

 

You play a balance sage, how many times when you're beating on an assassin and they shock you, quite likely getting that 3rd stack of harnessed darkness, pop shroud (on 45s cooldown must be nice) so all your dots are cleansed, your current attacks/cc will do nothing and then to top it off the start pelting you with a force lightning that hits harder than your own telekinetic throw, and the shock most certainly hit harder than your own project? Yea that hurts. Big time. I won't even go into the rakata med pack/overcharge sabre, 15% extra health abuse either that comes from % of total healing based abilities. You said it. Envy.

 

And since their dps abilities are hitting harder than mine, even though I have my talents in a DPS tree and they don't. Nerf? What nerf. I don't see it, they still OP

 

Oh and you talk about kiting - how do you kite something that probably has lower cooldown force speed, a force speed that breaks snares when yours doesn't, and they can pull you back, since you know unlike them you don't have shroud to stop that stuff happening.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Helig]

Ability to stealth, mind trap and seethe when one on one useless too? Heck even just stealth when a fight goes south.

From my experience, vanish cooldowns don't always place you out of combat in PvP. Can't Seethe in a thick fight, can't stealth with a DoT on you without spending Resilience, which they'd have to use to overcome my kiting.

You play a balance sage, how many times when you're beating on an assassin and they shock you, quite likely getting that 3rd stack of harnessed darkness, pop shroud (on 45s cooldown must be nice) so all your dots are cleansed, your current attacks/cc will do nothing and then to top it off the start pelting you with a force lightning that hits harder than your own telekinetic throw, and the shock most certainly hit harder than your own project? Yea that hurts. Big time. I won't even go into the rakata med pack/overcharge sabre, 15% extra health abuse either that comes from % of total healing based abilities. You said it. Envy.

 

And since their dps abilities are hitting harder than mine, even though I have my talents in a DPS tree and they don't. Nerf? What nerf. I don't see it, they still OP

 

Oh and you talk about kiting - how do you kite something that probably has lower cooldown force speed, a force speed that breaks snares when yours doesn't, and they can pull you back, since you know unlike them you don't have shroud to stop that stuff happening.

They can be rooted through Speed, and I tend to use my own Speed to counter their Resilience. Slow on them as much as possible, and, if they aren't all that good, their only chance of getting within 10 meters of me is creeping up to me in stealth and pulling me. Shadows are one of the easiest classes to kite, tbh. They pull, I push. They sprint, I root, they Resilience, I sprint. You aren't expecting to tank them, exchanging force power for force power, blow for blow, are you? Yes, they'd tear you a new one if you stay within 10 meters. But hey, good thing you have a 30-meter range on the vast majority of your abilities, right?

 

Granted, it all goes (or may go) to hell if someone else interferes and starts rooting and slowing you down. But hey - that's what team PvP is all about.

 

 

That said, yes, Sages\Sorcs could use some love. But it's not nearly as catastrophic.

[Metajedi]

From my experience, vanish cooldowns don't always place you out of combat in PvP. Can't Seethe in a thick fight, can't stealth with a DoT on you without spending Resilience, which they'd have to use to overcome my kiting.

 

They can be rooted through Speed, and I tend to use my own Speed to counter their Resilience. Slow on them as much as possible, and, if they aren't all that good, their only chance of getting within 10 meters of me is creeping up to me in stealth and pulling me. Shadows are one of the easiest classes to kite, tbh. They pull, I push. They sprint, I root, they Resilience, I sprint. You aren't expecting to tank them, exchanging force power for force power, blow for blow, are you? Yes, they'd tear you a new one if you stay within 10 meters. But hey, good thing you have a 30-meter range on the vast majority of your abilities, right?

 

Granted, it all goes (or may go) to hell if someone else interferes and starts rooting and slowing you down. But hey - that's what team PvP is all about.

 

 

That said, yes, Sages\Sorcs could use some love. But it's not nearly as catastrophic.

 

this, I was going to say madness/balance spec destroys any melee spec are you retarded ? Their force lightning is stronger, wanna know why ? because its limited to 10m range....yours is spammable at 30M.. USE YOUR RANGE. If you can drop 3 dots on him at 30 M and slow him the entire way to you.... oh he pulled you ? Knock back.... oh he slowed you ? Purge..... you can root / slow him any time you want and the only defense he has in force shroud every 45 seconds.... you should MURDER any melee... Marauders included which I regularly do,

 

marauders have attacked me at 25 % force power and 60 % life and before they finished me off I had them down to 10 %, 1 on 1 sorcerors can be insanwly resiliant if you know how to kite... ant btw the only way they were able to kill me is because I ran out of force power lol....

 

infact thats my only complaint about this spec is force power use

[whattt]

this, I was going to say madness/balance spec destroys any melee spec are you retarded ? Their force lightning is stronger, wanna know why ? because its limited to 10m range....yours is spammable at 30M.. USE YOUR RANGE. If you can drop 3 dots on him at 30 M and slow him the entire way to you.... oh he pulled you ? Knock back.... oh he slowed you ? Purge..... you can root / slow him any time you want and the only defense he has in force shroud every 45 seconds

 

The scenario you are painting is a best case scenario to open with for a Sorc/Sage. The fact is more often than not that is not the case.

 

Stealthers tend to attack when stealthed, so forget about the 30m you have at the opening and forget about having 1/3rd your health. You are also assuming you have every cool down available when you are the squishiest and most picked on member of your team.

[Forgon]

Any lightning tree sorcerers down here? How is that maneuverability in PVP?

[Chemic_al]

this, I was going to say madness/balance spec destroys any melee spec are you retarded ? Their force lightning is stronger, wanna know why ? because its limited to 10m range....yours is spammable at 30M.. USE YOUR RANGE. If you can drop 3 dots on him at 30 M and slow him the entire way to you.... oh he pulled you ? Knock back.... oh he slowed you ? Purge..... you can root / slow him any time you want and the only defense he has in force shroud every 45 seconds.... you should MURDER any melee... Marauders included which I regularly do,

 

marauders have attacked me at 25 % force power and 60 % life and before they finished me off I had them down to 10 %, 1 on 1 sorcerors can be insanwly resiliant if you know how to kite... ant btw the only way they were able to kill me is because I ran out of force power lol....

 

infact thats my only complaint about this spec is force power use

 

3 dots at 30m and slow all the way there. Wow, what assassins let you do that? Most of em I know will force speed to me and spike me. That's if they haven't got to me by stealth. And as for slowing them all the way there.... their speed breaks the slows... not going to happen.

 

Sorry, dude of course I can beat the bads, but the good players will not let you place 3 dots on em that easy. As for marauders, the good ones use camo to get to you, and once you're in melee range, good luck getting away, they have a counter to everything you can try. And you're going to eat two hits of ravage when they leap to you, which is nasty enough.

 

I imagine you'll tell me that every powertech is scared of you too....

Edited July 8, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Metajedi]

k first this guy

 

The scenario you are painting is a best case scenario to open with for a Sorc/Sage. The fact is more often than not that is not the case.

 

Stealthers tend to attack when stealthed, so forget about the 30m you have at the opening and forget about having 1/3rd your health. You are also assuming you have every cool down available when you are the squishiest and most picked on member of your team.

 

Of course were looking at a best case scenario, you cant complain about a worst case scenario, any class is DEAD in the water with out their oh **** buttons. A Marauder with out his defensive cool downs ready is dead real fast. If your upset that you get killed when your at half health or something...then just quit the game this is objective pvp not dueling. I also do not find myself the most picked on member of my team because I know where to be, I make sure im not noticed, and if I am noticed then no big deal if I die I die... if I get focused then they are not focusing my healer... I had one game where 2 marauders focused me the entire match because I am squishy so my tank just guarded me and taunted them, and the healer kept me up while we burned them down each time. I mean thats just bad.

 

 

3 dots at 30m and slow all the way there. Wow, what assassins let you do that? Most of em I know will force speed to me and spike me. That's if they haven't got to me by stealth. And as for slowing them all the way there.... their speed breaks the slows... not going to happen.

 

Sorry, dude of course I can beat the bads, but the good players will not let you place 3 dots on em that easy. As for marauders, the good ones use camo to get to you, and once you're in melee range, good luck getting away, they have a counter to everything you can try. And you're going to eat two hits of ravage when they leap to you, which is nasty enough.

 

I imagine you'll tell me that every powertech is scared of you too....

 

Ok first off a spike is usually a terrible opener unless its a deception sin... im assuming we are talking kinetic /darkness so they can spike out of stealth. Thats fine its a two second stun and kinetics do not hit that hard, their Damage is mediocre at best. And if he force speeds you and spikes you what does he have left ? A force pull HAHAHAHAA im sorry but you must be terrible at the game heres how this scenario should go.

 

Force speed to Spike > your stunned for 2 seconds > your bubble is probably enough to eat most of the shock/whither opener > immediatly strafe and overload do it on the run, but dont out range your own overload you can sneak a good few extra meters in > then bring on creeping terror ( hes rooted for 2 seconds ) You should still be strafing about 20-25 yards out now and affliction ( thats two out of three that dots that I placed on pretty easily )

im easily close to max range at this point frying him with force lightning now more often then not procing crushing darkness, and he has NOTHING he can do all three dots should be on him with in a matter of a few seconds after the spike.

 

Then hes gonna force pull ( OH NOEZ) what a joke thats what you save force speed for ive seen this same scenario happen time and time again NOW you force speed away and begin your rotation again ( btw dont forget Death field I dont open with it because its more important to get out of melee first, but it depends on the situaton if he doesnt force pull me by time the first force lightning is finished I assume its on cool down for him and I DF him) This whole thing will take 10-15 seconds usually his force speed will be close to finished cool down and if he uses it right away and catches up to you after your force speed then just knock him back and root him again....

 

There is absolutely no possible way for a darkness sin to keep up with a madness sorc... in a 1 v1 situation you should win every single time. Oh and if doesnt open with a force pull you still have a force slow and your roots that he cant do a thing about it... he slows you ? Purge and lol And dont tell me his force speed breaks slow... is slow on a long cool down???? no its not... his force speed will break slow it cant do jack about the second slow .

Also dont forget that a lot of their kill power is reliant on the 3 stacks of darkness lighting hit... so let them gather 3 stacks of darkness proc recklessness and hit you with lighting....you can interrupt it cant you ? jesus christ people.

 

 

 

 

Now pyro techs REALLY? This is what your complaining about ? Yeah I would say pyrotechs should be afraid of a good Sorceror, Pyrotechs are essentially useless outside of 10 meters...and you have three times that range.... you can dot them up from 30m and ALL THEY HAVE is one pull on a long cool down... I think its 45 seconds.

 

What else do they have ? You can purge the effect from combustible gas cylindar and their ranged damage is weak in order to survive they NEED to reset rail shot, in order to do that you need to be in range for fire spam and rocket punch.... once you get passed the grapple the game is yours, im serious about that they cant even interrupt your heals because the interrupt is melee range lol. I am sorry sir but if these two classes bother you, then you are bad... its all about strategy my friends learn the weaknesses of your enemy and exploit them.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Metajedi

[Metajedi]

Any lightning tree sorcerers down here? How is that maneuverability in PVP?

 

I tried it... I suck at it lol but it does work for some people probably needs a lot of practice, I personally love the mobility of madness but here watch this guy who is 31 point lightning

 

http://www.swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3447

[Chemic_al]

 

Now pyro techs REALLY? This is what your complaining about ? Yeah I would say pyrotechs should be afraid of a good Sorceror, Pyrotechs are essentially useless outside of 10 meters...and you have three times that range.... you can dot them up from 30m and ALL THEY HAVE is one pull on a long cool down... I think its 45 seconds.

 

What else do they have ? You can purge the effect from combustible gas cylindar and their ranged damage is weak in order to survive they NEED to reset rail shot, in order to do that you need to be in range for fire spam and rocket punch.... once you get passed the grapple the game is yours, im serious about that they cant even interrupt your heals because the interrupt is melee range lol. I am sorry sir but if these two classes bother you, then you are bad... its all about strategy my friends learn the weaknesses of your enemy and exploit them.

 

Really, you call people bad, and yet here you show your ignorance of basic sorc abilities.

 

1) Sorc without corruption talents cannot cleanse a tech dot like CGC

2) it can be reapplied instantly, so why bother?