Idea to increase Deception dps

[Sanen]

Im like alot of ppl who lvled the assassin class we lvled as deception and loved it and when we hit 50 we found out the dps was not as good as madness spec so we either respeced, rerolled another class or stayed true to the spec, so ive gotten an idea of how to kind of increase our dps in pve and pvp some.

 

Deception needs a damage over time (dot) ablilty. We could have something like the crushing madness spell/raze perk in madness tree where whenever we use discharge or shock it has a chance to deal some damage over a few seconds.

 

Maul. At times on some fights we cant be behind our target and and we just see duplicity proc and we cant maul the boss or mob cuz we cant be behind the target so i would say make a talent or add to a talent so we could use maul even if we are not behind our target. Also from like i said above u could make it so that when we maul our target it could make the target bleed for a few secs for some damage.

 

Last is our last talent point. You could up the damage from it.

 

I know ther are some ppl who say deception doesnt need a buff cuz of how it can be in pvp with its burst but we all know if u dont kill your target within a few secs u might as well be dead but o well i hope someone from bioware gives this some thought and im looking forward to the future of this class and the game.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Sanen

[PlagaNerezza]

Honestly,

 

I think it would be better if its stealth mode gave you immunity from being detected when you used it to allow you to hit and run.

 

I don't think the dps is bad. I think it has no survivability because you cannot hit and run and has absolutely zero survivability.

[Okamakiri]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation. Boost Force regen or lower the cost of abilities, and DPS will go up without raising burst in PVP. They can start by removing the 10s ICD on Saber Conduit.

[mrdert]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation. Boost Force regen or lower the cost of abilities, and DPS will go up without raising burst in PVP. They can start by removing the 10s ICD on Saber Conduit.

 

This, this, and this. Our force regen needs a buff. Nothing OP, just a tweak.

[Boarg]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation.

 

This, this, and this. Our force regen needs a buff. Nothing OP, just a tweak.

 

The problem with buffing force regen for Infiltration is it's so force efficient when played correctly that it tips over into the realm of having near-unlimited force pretty easily. In other words, force management becomes trivial and the spec gets more boring, stale, and has a lowered skill cap because there's less decision making involved in playing it.

 

For comparison, look at Pyro PT's. They have just as much or more resource management to worry about, yet they can do more than enough damage even with their limited resource. It's definitely more punitive when they screw up at the very least.

 

I would be very wary of changes that could dumb down our force management too much just to provide a damage bandaid. A better fix would be just making the attacks we already use more productive - probably including our basic attack.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Boarg

[scottberg]

Ideas I have

 

1. Eliminate seldom used and seldom recommended skills such Avoidance, Resourcefulness and Static Cling from the tree.

 

2. Move Dark Embrace up to the 2nd tier (one up from the bottom)

 

3. In the place of Dark Embrace add a 3 point Willpower buff skill (3/6/9%)

 

4. Change Deceptive Power (it currently increases force by 10): make it a 2 point skill. Buff it by making the first point add 50 force, and the 2nd point adds 100 force (which would increase total force to 250 instead of the 110 max we have now).

 

5. Add a 3rd point to Induction which would increase the Maul critical strike damage by 50%

 

After all this my tree would look like this:

 

Numbers in () = number of points that could go into skill

 

7th Tier - Voltaic Slash (1)

6th Tier - Crackling Blast (5)

5th Tier - Static Charges (2) - Low Slash (1)

4th Tier - Entropic Field (2) - Saber Conduit (3) - Fade (2)

3rd Tier - Induction (3) - Surging Charge (1) - Dark Swell (1) - Deceptive Power (2)

2nd Tier - Obfuscation (2) - Recirculation (2) - Dark Embrace (2)

1st Tier (bottom) - Insulation (2) - Duplicity (3) - Willpower Buff (3)

Edited July 6, 2012 by scottberg
Spelling correction

[Sanen]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation.

 

I would agree with that on some point. but even madness spec can hit the point of force starvation but not as bad as deception but that can be rework to the point of the talent that helps with force regen can have its numbers increase and really it wouldnt be a big dps increase just a very small one.

[DemonJin]

Just my thoughts...

 

1. Increase the dmg of VS and change the animation of it so it's less recognizable making us less predictable from a visual perspective.

2. Give all three specs the same utility ability such as force pull or something, but by doing that they'd have to give something in return for darkness. ( this is more for group utility in pvp)

3. Give us the talent to inc WP like the sorcs got.

 

As for those who say deception is force starved. There's a reason for that. This spec at the moment is more like a sprinter rather than a marathon runner so to speak. So better force consumption would be nice but not necessary IMO. I never really have problems with my force.

[Renskin]

I think they need to get rid of some useless talents, get some of that damage out of the Darkness tree and give it to Deception.

 

For example, Resourcefulness would be much better on a Tankasin then a Deceptionsin. Give us Nerve Wracking, and the 15% base Shock Damage buff. Also, get rid of the 20% armor buff while in Surge/Lightning Charge...there is just too much damage talents/synergies in the Darkness tree. Its a Defensive tree, not a Damage tree, so lets get some damage in the Deception tree....

 

 

Just my opinion. A few talent changes here and there. Move some stuff around. Madness is always doing damage to something, Deception has a lot of blank periods where you're just approaching your target. Thus why Madness always does more damage in PvP, unless you are always in the fight as a Deceptionsin..but even then, you're getting crushed.

[murshawursha]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation. Boost Force regen or lower the cost of abilities, and DPS will go up without raising burst in PVP. They can start by removing the 10s ICD on Saber Conduit.

 

This would be a glorious change.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation. Boost Force regen or lower the cost of abilities, and DPS will go up without raising burst in PVP. They can start by removing the 10s ICD on Saber Conduit.

 

I agree here, coming out of stealth: discharge, VS VS shock; maul and go saber strike to get force up for another rotation.

With maul procs u are force starved, without them u are waiting on shock CD..

Either way, our DPS gets stumped there.

 

Force lighting should be put into our rotation, like every discharge will build a buff stack, perhaps a self heal like madness and darkness have would be nice for Ops.

And building stacks does nothing for pvp, you usually die before u get enough stacks, lol.

[Soull]

saber conduit needs to have its ICD lowered, which has been said by others. also, i would like surging charge to proc more often, so static charges can get to a stack of 5 quicker. many times, the cd of discharge will have expired, but i'll only have 2-3 stacks of static charges up. discharge, being our hardest hitter (with overcharge saber active) would be more constantly hard hitting.

 

also, i cannot remember the name of the skill you train, but in essence, it raises our shock damage by a certain %, and the final rank is at level 50. it actually doesn't work like it should, giving us no increase in the damage of shock. while shock is already hard hitting (when it crits), deception sins need to stack power to get it to crit high. meanwhile, other classes can hit just as hard with other skills by having balanced stats of power and crit;. let it actually raise the damage of shock so we don't have to sacrifice crit in order to hit as hard as other classes that don't need to do so.

 

on a pvp note, i'd like for all sins to get force pull like they did in early beta. how will this increase dps? ever been kited as a deception sin? yeah, i thought so. force pull won't put an end to that, but it'll sure help.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Soull

[Kaisernick]

a quicker cooldown on blackout would help, it would alow us to jump in and out of attack more often.

 

but i beleive all stealth classes should have this as it can be difficult in pvp once to go out of stealth if blackout is still on a CD your odds of survival are slim.

[KiranK]

The problem with Deception DPS is Force starvation. Boost Force regen or lower the cost of abilities, and DPS will go up without raising burst in PVP. They can start by removing the 10s ICD on Saber Conduit.

 

We NEED burst in PvP. It's the only thing that makes playing a glass canon worth while. If we can't burst, why are there assassin type classes in the first place. Is that not their entire reason for existence? If we can't burst, what can we do?

 

Yes, remove the 10s CD on saber conduit, but also add a talent that gives maul a guaranteed critical on proc. Fix the damn animation on maul and shadow strike so they don't take a year only to fail due to "must be behind target" and give us a way to lower the CD on our stun.

[deags]

I would just like to having a high damage from stealth opener like the Ops do with hidden strike, the lack of a good stealth attack on a stealth based spec really sucks... Edited July 18, 2012 by deags

[bbare]

One thing would be to buff the voltaic slash skill a good 5-10%. Another may be to increase force regen. My favorite would be to give a skill that increases critical chance. Deception assassins rely on their crit more than any other class in the game and they get no bonuses to their crit chance from their tree. It makes no sense.

[KingpinDragon]

What about making it more survivable instead? Added, If force was more plentiful the DPS would be pretty good.

[WoruulKeei]

How about the Madness talent Torment also reduces cost of Voltaic Slash. It would be a small boost but over some longer fights would add up to a lot of extra force and perhaps also lower ICD for Saber Conduit.

[murshawursha]

What about making it more survivable instead? Added, If force was more plentiful the DPS would be pretty good.

 

Increased survivability would be good for PvP, but it wouldn't really do anything ot increase PvE viability. The goal here is to try to improve both.

[AwkwardGinger]

One thing would be to buff the voltaic slash skill a good 5-10%. Another may be to increase force regen. My favorite would be to give a skill that increases critical chance. Deception assassins rely on their crit more than any other class in the game and they get no bonuses to their crit chance from their tree. It makes no sense.

 

This. Its sad that a deception sin has to nerf their power to itemize for crit when no other class really has to rely on crit as much (at least no other class that I've played). A boost to the crit chance of shock/project and discharge/forcebreach would go a long way.

 

Perhaps stacking Static charges would also increase the crit chance of your next discharge?

[Echoo]

Bioware stated in their Q & A that deception isn't behind on dps, they are within 5% and people need to learn to play. More like learn to balance bioware. lol

[timidobserver]

Bioware stated in their Q & A that deception isn't behind on dps, they are within 5% and people need to learn to play. More like learn to balance bioware. lol

 

Yeh they totally aren't behind. It's just that nobody can figure it out.

[WaldoA]

The problem with buffing force regen for Infiltration is it's so force efficient when played correctly that it tips over into the realm of having near-unlimited force pretty easily.

 

I've got a 50 Operative, and I can pretty much spam skills all day long and not have to worry about energy while I have Tactical Advantage up, honestly they regain crazy amounts of energy, I don't see why assassins shouldn't get something to boost force regen other than popping out of stealth or using blackout especially when the abilitys use up a heck of alot of force each.

[Sanen]

I've got a 50 Operative, and I can pretty much spam skills all day long and not have to worry about energy while I have Tactical Advantage up, honestly they regain crazy amounts of energy, I don't see why assassins shouldn't get something to boost force regen other than popping out of stealth or using blackout especially when the abilitys use up a heck of alot of force each.

 

 

See if i do remember operatives need to be behind ther target just to do most of ther dps right. Well for assassins we only have one skill that requires us to be behind the target.

[ElitehunterDS]

Yeh they totally aren't behind. It's just that nobody can figure it out.

in other word all players without exception are baddies and Bioware design is perfect.. Wait a sec, No it isnt!