Draiganx Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well, after a few days of research, it has come to my attention that it is frankly impossible for there to be so many Human NPC's in the empire. I understand the whole Sith speices story, and the dark jedi ect, I understand how the sith got to where they were, and how the Empire was made. BUT! All the sith that fled from Yavin after the great hyperspace war, with the new Dark Lord of the sith, would have either been sith Pure Blood, Massassi, or some human-sith cross breed. Therefore, the huge bulk of the population in the Empire should not be human (I also take into account for human/alien slaves, and human that would have joined the empire after the war started. So can some one please explain this to me? (Not to mention there is no such thing as a pure 100% sith in the game, this would mostly likely also be false, there should still be plenty of them around) And if I have not made my question/reasoning clear I will gladly explain in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 first off it was koriban they fled not yavin second the reason humans are not treated with discust if due to the fact the the exiled dark jedi who found koriban years ago were human and ended up ruleing over the sith species as the first dark lords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 While no expert in genetics (and Star Wars genetics actually make scientists die a little inside), I am going to go with the fact that human traits are dominant to Sith traits and that since Sith Purebloods are hybrids and the original SIth race is practically extinct, these human traits become progressively more selective and eventually, any one with Sith family bloodline would have very little Sith blood as the generations became more and more human over the course of 300 years (even more since the Great Hyperspace War was closer to 400-450 years ago, I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draiganx Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) first off it was koriban they fled not yavin second the reason humans are not treated with discust if due to the fact the the exiled dark jedi who found koriban years ago were human and ended up ruleing over the sith species as the first dark lords Where is the rest of this point? Lol! Im not so sure. I believe it was either other sith worlds, (like the emperor's home world), or yavin, the SW:TOR time lines dont make this very clear. And as to of the above post, yes I guess you could be right. But I find it hard to believe that in 5000 BBY it was a 95% sith, 4% SIth human mix, and a 1% pure human group.... and then by 3600 BBY it was a 98% human group, 2 % sith-human mix. BTW, for some reason in the SW:TOR vidoes, specially looking at the great hyperspace war ones.... things change... the vidoes seem to go back and forth depicting the Sith Empire as it should be, all sith, and then almost completely with out sith. Edited July 5, 2012 by Draiganx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Where is the rest of this point? Lol! Im not so sure. I believe it was either other sith worlds, (like the emperor's home world), or yavin, the SW:TOR time lines dont make this very clear. And as to of the above post, yes I guess you could be right. But I find it hard to believe that in 5000 BBY it was a 95% sith, 4% SIth human mix, and a 1% pure human group.... and then by 3600 BBY it was a 98% human group, 2 % sith-human mix. BTW, for some reason in the SW:TOR vidoes, specially looking at the great hyperspace war ones.... things change... the vidoes seem to go back and forth depicting the Sith Empire as it should be, all sith, and then almost completely with out sith. my point is that humans helped make up the very first sith empire so regardless of weather they were humans who left koriban or ones that were taken or joined later means that sith will acept any humans and treat them as equels as long as they ern it. as the large amount of humans as you said were probbaly slaves taken during the hyperspace wars in fact i think the timeline video points that out during the vikean one i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draiganx Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) I see, I still believe it is outragiously out of wake in terms of the numbers though, and the apperence of said humans. And even when the "humans" helped form the sith empire, all of those humans bread with the sith. So thats why in the great hyper space war everyone looks sith. Naga Shadow just had more human blood in him then most. Example - (We are excluding the MASSASSI and the Mutant Sith sub spieces/ class) A - REAL sith traits - Red Fur/veyr hair skin Chimp like nose and month Chin horn Far out, spiky eye brows Face tenticles 4 digit hands, 3 digit feet B - Human/SIth mix traits - Red, pale red skin Humanized face structure face tenticles 5 digit hands, 5 digit feet no fur humanized teeth no chin horn semi long eye brow spikes During the great hyperspace war, 100% of the sith empire looked like that (either A or B). So with that being said.... it is that same ratio of A and B in the group that fled. Meaning (aside from slaves) that everyone else was either 100% sith or atelast 50% sith/massassi. So please.... tell me where all this human blood came from, becuase humans should be exstinct in the new sith empire!? Edited July 5, 2012 by Draiganx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Easy. Vitiate fled with other Sith during the Great Hyperspace War until he stumbled across DK and started building his own Empire. I don't think it's ever stated how many followers he fled with nor what species they are, it's safe to assume that Sith,hybrids and humans tagged along. You have a long gap of time taking place from the Dark Jedi first encountering the Sith species until Vitiate leaving after that incarnation of the Sith Empire in which there could have been a massive influx of human Sith immigrants to Korriban or the conquering of various human populations in the Unknown regions that added more humans to the Empire's numbers. I see there is a lot of argument about what Sith/human hybrids look like as well. Canon has the offspring of humans/near humans and pureblood Sith, looking more Sith but also being different than Purebloods; their appearances vary wildly in a short amount of time from appearing Sith but only having 4 digits on their hands to having no bone spurs and pinkish skin and so on.Generations and generations of Sith/human interbreeding dilutes the Sith features even more and the human characteristics become dominant and they appear more human. Take Ebya T'dell of the Lost Tribe of Sith for example, who had to be examined because she appeared "more Sithlike" than the rest and all she had was high cheekbones and pinkish skin. (Tthe Lost Tribe went out of their way to wipe out red skinned Sith among their original numbers, kill any red skinned Sith children and barred anyone who had Sith like features from producing offspring) Edited July 5, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I see, I still believe it is outragiously out of wake in terms of the numbers though, and the apperence of said humans. And even when the "humans" helped form the sith empire, all of those humans bread with the sith. So thats why in the great hyper space war everyone looks sith. Naga Shadow just had more human blood in him then most. Example - (We are excluding the MASSASSI and the Mutant Sith sub spieces/ class) A - REAL sith traits - Red Fur/veyr hair skin Chimp like nose and month Chin horn Far out, spiky eye brows Face tenticles 4 digit hands, 3 digit feet B - Human/SIth mix traits - Red, pale red skin Humanized face structure face tenticles 5 digit hands, 5 digit feet no fur humanized teeth no chin horn semi long eye brow spikes During the great hyperspace war, 100% of the sith empire looked like that (either A or B). So with that being said.... it is that same ratio of A and B in the group that fled. Meaning (aside from slaves) that everyone else was either 100% sith or atelast 50% sith/massassi. So please.... tell me where all this human blood came from, becuase humans should be exstinct in the new sith empire!? again slaves i mean i doubt the sith mixed with all the huma slave they probally were freed alowed to be part of the empire and breed with each other. i mean i think the sith species would have only breed with a human if they were strong in the force so they dont produce a child that isnt its important to them after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 There are three apparent races that were considered the civilized regulars of the old Sith Empire society. -Humans -Sith -Hybrids The above points out what existed. Now, let us take a few facts into account: -97% of the TOR Sith Empire's population had Sith DNA (assume they exclude slaves) -Sith Purebloods are human-sith hybrids with just enough DNA to show Sith traits in some form -Sith blood exists in humans although it is becoming increasingly low with each generation. -The Republic believed the Sith Empire was completely eradicated -Some portion of the Sith population fled known space under guidance of the Sith Emperor With the above facts, we can make some wonderful assumptions on the topic: -Sith Purebloods are becoming exceedingly rare due to the fact their genetic traits are recessive to most human traits (which are dominant) -Most, if not all, humans in the Empire contain Sith DNA in their genetics -Only a certain portion of the original Sith Empire's population actually eluded the Republic and avoided being listed as MIA during the genocide of their worlds. Now here is what I gather from all of this: The original Sith species was largely eradicated when the Republic razed their worlds and attempted to obliterate the Sith from the galaxy (both the Order and the people). Let us say 3 million fled with their future Emperor. Of those 3 million, let us say 1 million were pure humans (or 80% human) and the rest were Sith-human hybrids (since as far as we know, the only pure Sith left that did not intermingle with Dark Jedi became Sith experiments to become monstrosities or worse, like the Massassai). If the Sith-human hybrids held recessive traits, and nearly four centuries later, the Empire's population had 97% with Sith DNA, then we can assume that over the maybe 20-30 generations (if a generation is 20 or so years), Sith blood greatly diminished and continued to become more and more recessive, and finding pureblooded Sith was probably non-existent so eventually, your Sith blood died out and your great-great-great grandson was most likely 95% human. Therefore, the Empire is largely human because human traits dominate in the galaxy by evolutions standards (also why the humans dominate the other species in numbers, diversity, and area) and the Sith traits just diminished with each generation until actually having enough Sith blood to be a Sith pureblood was so remarkable. On top of this (discard my old numbers), the section of Sith population that fled with the Emperor may have been mostly humans and Sith-human hybrids with mostly human traits and whichever had a Sith trait be visible in their appearance were a minority among the section of the population that actually escaped. Therefore, the chance of slowing this genetic breed by natural selection would not be hindered as the pool of recipients to mix and match would be limited to a mostly human trait population (which was still a dominant trait). That is how I rationalize it. I don't see the issue personally. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draiganx Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Easy. Vitiate fled with other Sith during the Great Hyperspace War until he stumbled across DK and started building his own Empire. I don't think it's ever stated how many followers he fled with nor what species they are, it's safe to assume that Sith,hybrids and humans tagged along. You have a long gap of time taking place from the Dark Jedi first encountering the Sith species until Vitiate leaving after that incarnation of the Sith Empire in which there could have been a massive influx of human Sith immigrants to Korriban or the conquering of various human populations in the Unknown regions that added more humans to the Empire's numbers. I see there is a lot of argument about what Sith/human hybrids look like as well. Canon has the offspring of humans/near humans and pureblood Sith, looking more Sith but also being different than Purebloods; their appearances vary wildly in a short amount of time from appearing Sith but only having 4 digits on their hands to having no bone spurs and pinkish skin and so on.Generations and generations of Sith/human interbreeding dilutes the Sith features even more and the human characteristics become dominant and they appear more human. Take Ebya T'dell of the Lost Tribe of Sith for example, who had to be examined because she appeared "more Sithlike" than the rest and all she had was high cheekbones and pinkish skin. (Tthe Lost Tribe went out of their way to wipe out red skinned Sith among their original numbers, kill any red skinned Sith children and barred anyone who had Sith like features from producing offspring) Ok so this makes more sense to me, in other words you believe all the "humans" in the empire have some sith blood in them, but the human triats are way super powerful and more numerous. Meaning generation by generation everyone became more human looking. This I can accept, however what still is off is the odd number of humans in the time line vidoes, but this I will write off as saying the producers rushed em! lol and @ Forgon - thank you sir! Edited July 6, 2012 by Draiganx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Ok so this makes more sense to me, in other words you believe all the "humans" in the empire have some sith blood in them, but the human triats are way super powerful and more numerous. Meaning generation by generation everyone became more human looking. This I can accept, however what still is off is the odd number of humans in the time line vidoes, but this I will write off as saying the producers rushed em! lol and @ Forgon - thank you sir! You are welcome. Keep in mind, what we see in the Timeline video is, basically, a bunch of pureblood humans and Vaiken (a known human) so most likely,a sizeable human population did exist. My big issue is actually knowing the numbers that fled the Empire, the numbers that attacked the Republic, and the numbers at the end of the Empire. The codex acknowledges the Empire's number inferiority and implies their surprise attack and an unprepared Republic was the cause of their major victories and that the Treat of Coruscant was the only saving grace that prevented the Republic's collapse due to you-know-who. However, I am still curious of the census before, during, and after the war (as well as the founding) to actually understand how "small" the Empire's numbers were. Did a few million flee the known galaxy and then multiplied into a trillion or only a few billion? When comparing trillions of sentients in a galactic republic to a small Sith Empire, numbers help understand a lot more about their situation (and the flaws of their elitist society). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luhrsen Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Despite the fact that most people in the empire look fully human( or even alien I suppose), as HK tells you in his flashpoint; 98% of the imperial population has some trace of Sith blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Despite the fact that most people in the empire look fully human( or even alien I suppose), as HK tells you in his flashpoint; 98% of the imperial population has some trace of Sith blood. Correction: 97% efficient genocide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZirusZero Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Correction: 97% efficient genocide! What about the 1%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Despite the fact that most people in the empire look fully human( or even alien I suppose), as HK tells you in his flashpoint; 98% of the imperial population has some trace of Sith blood. It's 97%, not 98. I just played through it again a few hours ago. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterkabal Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I see, I still believe it is outragiously out of wake in terms of the numbers though, and the apperence of said humans. And even when the "humans" helped form the sith empire, all of those humans bread with the sith. So thats why in the great hyper space war everyone looks sith. Naga Shadow just had more human blood in him then most. Example - (We are excluding the MASSASSI and the Mutant Sith sub spieces/ class) A - REAL sith traits - Red Fur/veyr hair skin Chimp like nose and month Chin horn Far out, spiky eye brows Face tenticles 4 digit hands, 3 digit feet B - Human/SIth mix traits - Red, pale red skin Humanized face structure face tenticles 5 digit hands, 5 digit feet no fur humanized teeth no chin horn semi long eye brow spikes During the great hyperspace war, 100% of the sith empire looked like that (either A or B). So with that being said.... it is that same ratio of A and B in the group that fled. Meaning (aside from slaves) that everyone else was either 100% sith or atelast 50% sith/massassi. So please.... tell me where all this human blood came from, becuase humans should be exstinct in the new sith empire!? Um... because they interbred with both humans and aliens? We are also talking about an empire right? Because to my understanding that even an imperialist dictatorial empire with slaves in it would have more than just two species in it... right? Also, in case you're forgetting they had other systems they had conquered under their rule. Your entire question of "where did all the humans come from" is simply begging the question that there were only humans, sith/pure bloods and Massassi; which is bad logic even in the Star Wars Universe. Edit: Also on the Sith starting world, there is a quest where they hint at the fact that the number of pure blooded Sith are in the minority in the Empire. Edited July 7, 2012 by Masterkabal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterkabal Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Despite the fact that most people in the empire look fully human( or even alien I suppose), as HK tells you in his flashpoint; 98% of the imperial population has some trace of Sith blood. Key word, "some trace." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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