Tank class DPS justification ...

[applekirks]

Yeah healers should not be able to stun and dps since they can heal. Its too op because they can heal. They should not be able to have slow's and cc because they can heal.

[skotish]

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m511/skotish/smashbros.png

 

These 2 jugs done this to me i cryed all night about it they didn't even crit i could not even get my hots away

NERF!!!

[Siorac]

The class is the tank. The spec is well...the specialization.

The Jug is a TANK class.

 

So what if they don't Specialize for tanking?

They are still tanks.

 

Heavy armor

Single target Taunts

AE Taunts

Reduces dmg stance that increases armor above default heavy (approx 30% mitigation to approx 50%)

Guard

 

All these abilities can be used regardless of SPEC.

They are TANK abilities making the class a TANK.

 

And if DPS spaced Jugs and Guardians are not tanks then i guess BW forgot to inform these guys.

 

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9039/screenshot2012070100492.jpg

 

Top 3 damage classes in a competitive game also have great to excellent protection stats.

Yea seems balances to me.

 

By this utterly retarded logic ALL Operatives/Scoundrels and Sages/Sorcerers are healers. They have heals, they can heal themselves and others - they are healer abilities making the class a healer. Should I post screenshots of Sages doing 300k damage and 100k healing?

 

People should realize that Focus Guardians are one-trick ponies who live for those crits. Yeah, the guy can kill you with three Force Sweeps. If you stand around for the 27 seconds it takes, that is. The QQ about them is insane because 1) heavy armour means little in this game, 2) they have next to no defensive cooldowns or damage reduction talents. They're squishy as hell. Yes, they can Guard in exchange for a slight drop in damage. Big deal.

[Helig]

All tanks are OP. Period.

 

Even IF you spec your tank class for DPS, you still have HEAVY ARMOR. You DPS like a pure DPS class, but you can soak up way more damage.

 

Bioware has no idea about class balance.

 

/thread

Yeah, heavy armour is overpowered. It offers whole 5% Energy\Kinetic mitigation bonus over Medium and whole 10-11% over Light. This 5% is definitely allows them to soak up "way more" damage than "DPS" classes.

 

Oh, wait, it doesn't. Side-stepping cover to activate Ballistic Dampers adds way more mitigation to my Sniper. 50% uptime on Cloak of Pain, not mentioning other cooldowns, adds a lot more mitigation to my Marauder. Guard stance cripples Focus\Rage generation and lowers damage directly. And it's just a 15-17% bonus, depending on gear level, to Kinetic\Energy mitigation. Can't really stance-dance as well, because it forces you to lose Rage\Focus.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Helig

[Siorac]

Yeah, heavy armour is overpowered. It offers whole 5% Energy\Kinetic mitigation bonus over Medium and whole 10-11% over Light. This 5% is definitely allows them to soak up "way more" damage than "DPS" classes.

 

Oh, wait, it doesn't. Side-stepping cover to activate Ballistic Dampers adds way more mitigation to my Sniper. 50% uptime on Cloak of Pain, not mentioning other cooldowns, adds a lot more mitigation to my Marauder. Guard stance cripples Focus\Rage generation and lowers damage directly. And it's just a 15-17% bonus, depending on gear level, to Kinetic\Energy mitigation. Can't really stance-dance as well, because it forces you to lose Rage\Focus.

 

I'd like to add that the base defense chance of Consulars/Inquisitors is 5% higher than that of Guardians/Juggernauts.

[vimm]

Focus guardians not sure what the mirrors called

Its force sweep and singularity stacks

So after the leap or zelous leap which is a short range leap/attack they are garenteed a crit to their

Sweep ability this has a 5 mtr range and is somewhat easy to negate

When they leap to you knock them back or stun them and the move out of range

If done successfully you will have nutered their damage greatly

 

Singularity is gained by force stasis/choke combat focus and force exhaustion

 

Sounds like Vengeance/Vigilance to me, based on the OP's description.

[Helig]

Sounds like Vengeance/Vigilance to me, based on the OP's description.

 

Pretty sure it's Rage. It isn't all that easy to get 4k screams in Vengeance - unless with solid Pooled Hatred stack and a gear advantage. Rage has 30% crit damage bonus on Force attacks, so I can perfectly see Scream critting that high in this spec.

[Siorac]

Sounds like Vengeance/Vigilance to me, based on the OP's description.

 

Well, if we take the OP's word for it that the 6k crit was followed by a 4k Force Scream then it probably was a Rage Juggernaut. Vengeance can crit Scream more reliably but hitting 4k in Vengeance would require insane amounts of Surge. Which is something that Rage Juggs like to stack and they have the 30% Force damage increase talent.

[kirorx]

ahhh thats cute

[Soapland]

The point is this ...

 

I have yet to see a pure DPS hit for 6k and I've been playing since Beta. No Sniper, no Gunslinger, no Marauder and no Sentinel has hit me for the amount of damage that this Jugg hit me for. I understand that they have a DPS tree, but don't you think a PURE dps should hit like this and not a class that wears heavy armor with a ton of mitigation?

 

justify it as you must, but it's wrong ...

 

I'm a hybrid too ... and I hit NOTHING like this.

 

Fyi, the focus/rage tree which you are complaining about, the one with the 6k smashes, is a shared tree between ACs. So marauders can do that too. Used to be they couldn't do it as well as juggs, but after 1.2 bioware made it level, so their smash hurts just as much assuming the same gear.. You don't notice getting hit by maras that hard because the vast majority of them choose not to spec into rage, they go annihilation which is not as in-your-face impressive i'll grant you that, but its way way more overpowered. You should pvp more, then you'd find out juggs smashes are just the tip of the broken iceberg.

[Stavroz]

By this utterly retarded logic ALL Operatives/Scoundrels and Sages/Sorcerers are healers. They have heals, they can heal themselves and others - they are healer abilities making the class a healer. Should I post screenshots of Sages doing 300k damage and 100k healing?

 

People should realize that Focus Guardians are one-trick ponies who live for those crits. Yeah, the guy can kill you with three Force Sweeps. If you stand around for the 27 seconds it takes, that is. The QQ about them is insane because 1) heavy armour means little in this game, 2) they have next to no defensive cooldowns or damage reduction talents. They're squishy as hell. Yes, they can Guard in exchange for a slight drop in damage. Big deal.

 

300k dmg followed by 100k healing is one thing

450K dmg with 100k protection is a total different.

 

Simple maths 300 + 100 = 400

450 + 100 = 550

i think 550 is the bigger number.

 

Also ppl that say heavy armor makes little difference in this game are always ppl that have never played a Sage/Soc in this game.

Here is an idea...rip all your mods/enhancements/armourings out of your gear and put it into a light Armour shell then put all that light armor onto your JUg/Guardian then enter some competitive warzone games.

 

I guarantee you that you wont be saying heavy armor makes little difference any more.

 

Your second point is garbage also.

 

Saber ward is an excellent Deensive cooldowm. Unspeced it gives you a 50% chance above and beyond your base chance to "deflect/parry" white damage.

And b4 you say oh but white damage is nothing.

 

Ravage/master strike is white dmg, as is rail shot/high impact bolt as well double strike/thrash as well as most of the Sniper/gunslingers abilities.

 

Ask these classes how frustrating it is when one of their high powered abilaties is simply deflected or parried...

 

PLus it also gives you above that a flat EXTRA 25% dmg reduction across the board against all force and tech attacks.

 

 

This defensive cooldown is an excellent and very useful ability.

 

Then you say oh but guards Jugs can only hit for 6k dmg every 12 secs with Smash force sweep.

Sure that's fantastic. But Deathfeild/Force in balance that the sage/sorc has is also on a 12 sec timer and can hit for nowhere near as much as that.

 

Give our Force in balance a guaranteed 5+k hit if its not that big of a deal that a 12sec ability can hit that hard.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Stavroz

[alcek]

 

But in case you need further proof here are the same players in a quick Novre coast 100-0 which is a "quick" game with a sentinel in the mix to satisfy you.

Low and behold the DPS tanks outperform everyone again.

 

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2662/screenshot2012063001264.jpg

Big sigh. Enemy kills - 0. ZERO. So an undergeared team of noobs on the enemy side got farmed non stop by a geared team, probably on vent, coordinated, getting heals and guards. This isn't a proof, it is a slaughter.

Your other screens look similar.

200k dmg + 200k guard in a game is possible for every tank, in tank spec and gear. EVERY tank.

Don't wanna start the screen war with pics of omg performing sentinels, immortal ops healers, insane powertechs and so on.

The sentinel in my team is better for guarding nodes than me, dps "guardian". He lasts longer, does better 1v1 when needed, heals like a half-healer. He does better damage, the regular margin is 1.5 in his favour.

The exact same applies to the shadow tanks.

And the vanguard tanks.

All of these are at least 2 times better overall than poor juggs/guardians.

But you come here and start flaming a mediocre class with a single semi-playable tree, that gets evaporated when alone and does okish in a group with support heals, but this is true for any other class in the game.

The only time i feel op is vs a sage healer, and it very much depends on how good is he and are my cds up or not. If i am lucky with my moves, i could kill one /pre 1.3, i doubt i can do this now/ inside ~15 seconds /both with top gear/. But, as u see, this is more of a sage healer issue than a guardian one, because i think they need a little buff, either in defenses or the healing.

I just read your last post. To add more things to the topic, the dps sage in my group outdpses me EVERY game, regardless of whether i stay in combat all the time or not.

Edited July 5, 2012 by alcek