Give Mercs Flame Burst

[Individual]

I think mercs should get this ability too. Would make the class more viable

[Garundor]

Have to disagree mate. Merc is a ranged dps class. FB is a 10m instant cast that is of most benefit to a pyro powertech in applying CGS. I don't see the point of mercs having a 10m ability when they can be at

30m happily throwing rockets. Just my opinion but it seems to me that you may have some issues with how you are playing the class of you have come to a conclusion like that.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Garundor

[clearsighted]

It's hugely powerful to kite melee with, and by instantly applying the first tic of its dot upon application, the damage is nearly doubled when it crits. It's like an instant, cheap attack that can repeatedly do 2k+ damage. Better than tracer missile.

 

It's just added gravy for pyros that it resets their railshot, and they can grapple people closer.

Edited July 3, 2012 by clearsighted

[Swaggz]

I think lowering Missile Blasts cost to 16 heat instead of 25 and having a talent in the Pyro tree that would allow Missile Blast a 100% chance to apply the CGC DoT would make more sense. It would give Pyro (and Arsenal for that matter) a more spamable instant cast and Pyro's would get that 100% CGC DoT ability that we've been asking for. This wouldn't really make either spec OP since MB doesn't really hit very hard and even at 16 heat, we would still have to weave in Rapid Shots. Just gives us another option.

[Canis_Anubis]

Terribly unbalanced, imo. It would make Power Shot totally pointless to a Mercenary, and give them insane mobility at virtually no cost. All Mercs need is a bit more escape/root/snare ability so they can kite a bit more effectively than they currently do.

[Swaggz]

Terribly unbalanced, imo. It would make Power Shot totally pointless to a Mercenary, and give them insane mobility at virtually no cost. All Mercs need is a bit more escape/root/snare ability so they can kite a bit more effectively than they currently do.

 

Which part would make us imbalanced? And what does that have to do with PS?

[cashogy]

I think lowering Missile Blasts cost to 16 heat instead of 25 and having a talent in the Pyro tree that would allow Missile Blast a 100% chance to apply the CGC DoT would make more sense. It would give Pyro (and Arsenal for that matter) a more spamable instant cast and Pyro's would get that 100% CGC DoT ability that we've been asking for. This wouldn't really make either spec OP since MB doesn't really hit very hard and even at 16 heat, we would still have to weave in Rapid Shots. Just gives us another option.

 

i would love to see missile blast just have its heat cost reduced to 16. it makes no sense for such a low damaging attack to have one of the highest heat costs.

 

i dont think it needs to proc CGC though. id rather see power shot have a 100% chance to proc CGC, since power shot is more similar to flame burst from a mechanics standpoint.

[Phrase]

i dont think it needs to proc CGC though. id rather see power shot have a 100% chance to proc CGC, since power shot is more similar to flame burst from a mechanics standpoint.

 

Except that Power Shot:

 

1) has a 1.5 second cast time.

2) can be deflected, parried, resisted, etc.

3) is mitigated by armor and shields

4) is ranged instead of tech (lower inherent accuracy)

Edited July 4, 2012 by Phrase

[Swaggz]

i would love to see missile blast just have its heat cost reduced to 16. it makes no sense for such a low damaging attack to have one of the highest heat costs.

 

i dont think it needs to proc CGC though. id rather see power shot have a 100% chance to proc CGC, since power shot is more similar to flame burst from a mechanics standpoint.

 

I was looking at it from the instant cast aspect like Flame Burst is for PT's. Either way, we need something that has a 100% proc for CGC that doesn't cost a crap ton of heat.

[Macroecon]

Terribly unbalanced, imo. It would make Power Shot totally pointless to a Mercenary, and give them insane mobility at virtually no cost.

 

LOL. PowerShot is already totally pointless to a Merc in PvP. And that insane mobility that you speak of is already in the game. For PT Pyros. So what needs to be explained is not, why Flame Burst exists. It's why gimp one AC with an ability that is useless while the other AC gets an non-interruptible, auto CGC proc ability that ignores all defender armor and makes that AC balanced vs. the numerous melee dps in the game.

[Sookster]

It would make Power Shot totally pointless to a Mercenary

 

Isn't power shot already pointless?

[dcgregorya]

I don't understand all the whining on these boards about mercs in PVP. Mercs are excellent in PVP when played by a good player. Compare to a Pyro PT we've got in the order of 3-4% less DPS and having casted abilities, in exchange for 20m-25m extra range, fusion missile, knockback with snare, ability to offspec heal, etc.

 

I see posts about how as a merc DPS you need to stay far back from the fight to survive but then the same people praise PTs, who *have* to be under 10m in order to do any effective DPS with no more survivability at all...

 

I feel like a lot of this is "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Mercs, both pyro and arsenal are absolutely fine for PVP both ranked and unranked.

 

Honestly, if you're having trouble making mercenary work its probably just not a playstyle suited for you and I encourage you to try out some other classes and see if they are a better fit. In reference to the OP, FB is a 10m instant cast that is built for PT to kite with because they have to be in melee range. If you feel like it wouldn't be OP to have FB plus all your other tools then you're playing the class wrong.

Edited July 7, 2012 by dcgregorya

[HeVans_]

I don't understand all the whining on these boards about mercs in PVP. Mercs are excellent in PVP when played by a good player. Compare to a Pyro PT we've got in the order of 3-4% less DPS and having casted abilities, in exchange for 20m-25m extra range, fusion missile, knockback with snare, ability to offspec heal, etc.

 

I see posts about how as a merc DPS you need to stay far back from the fight to survive but then the same people praise PTs, who *have* to be under 10m in order to do any effective DPS with no more survivability at all...

 

I feel like a lot of this is "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Mercs, both pyro and arsenal are absolutely fine for PVP both ranked and unranked.

 

Honestly, if you're having trouble making mercenary work its probably just not a playstyle suited for you and I encourage you to try out some other classes and see if they are a better fit. In reference to the OP, FB is a 10m instant cast that is built for PT to kite with because they have to be in melee range. If you feel like it wouldn't be OP to have FB plus all your other tools then you're playing the class wrong.

 

Arsenal is not even close to fine in PvP, put a decent marauder on the enemies arsenal merc, he will kill the merc in under 10s and move on, regardless of the merc's gear/skill. You essentially are playing 7v8 if you have an arsenal on your team.

[Swaggz]

I don't understand all the whining on these boards about mercs in PVP. Mercs are excellent in PVP when played by a good player. Compare to a Pyro PT we've got in the order of 3-4% less DPS and having casted abilities, in exchange for 20m-25m extra range, fusion missile, knockback with snare, ability to offspec heal, etc.

 

I see posts about how as a merc DPS you need to stay far back from the fight to survive but then the same people praise PTs, who *have* to be under 10m in order to do any effective DPS with no more survivability at all...

 

I feel like a lot of this is "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Mercs, both pyro and arsenal are absolutely fine for PVP both ranked and unranked.

 

Honestly, if you're having trouble making mercenary work its probably just not a playstyle suited for you and I encourage you to try out some other classes and see if they are a better fit. In reference to the OP, FB is a 10m instant cast that is built for PT to kite with because they have to be in melee range. If you feel like it wouldn't be OP to have FB plus all your other tools then you're playing the class wrong.

 

No one is complaining about our DPS. Hell, I know as Pyro we're just fine in that department when it comes to PvP. It's the lack of basic utility that other classes have that we don't is what most are trying to point out. THat and Pyro mercs do need an ability that has a 100% CGC proc on it...

[Individual]

I don't understand all the whining on these boards about mercs in PVP. Mercs are excellent in PVP when played by a good player. Compare to a Pyro PT we've got in the order of 3-4% less DPS and having casted abilities, in exchange for 20m-25m extra range, fusion missile, knockback with snare, ability to offspec heal, etc.

 

I see posts about how as a merc DPS you need to stay far back from the fight to survive but then the same people praise PTs, who *have* to be under 10m in order to do any effective DPS with no more survivability at all...

 

I feel like a lot of this is "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Mercs, both pyro and arsenal are absolutely fine for PVP both ranked and unranked.

 

Honestly, if you're having trouble making mercenary work its probably just not a playstyle suited for you and I encourage you to try out some other classes and see if they are a better fit. In reference to the OP, FB is a 10m instant cast that is built for PT to kite with because they have to be in melee range. If you feel like it wouldn't be OP to have FB plus all your other tools then you're playing the class wrong.

 

Good merc player vs good any other class player, and merc still loses. Sorry, some of you are having delusions of grandeur imo. This is class is the worse DPS class in the game right now. Why? All our heavy hitters can be interupted. It's pretty fail when you consider how many cc abilities and interupts people have. You can roll as pyrotech and do a decent amount of dmg, but you'll still die once a stick or powertech gets on you.

[Macroecon]

I don't understand all the whining on these boards about mercs in PVP. Mercs are excellent in PVP when played by a good player. Compare to a Pyro PT we've got in the order of 3-4% less DPS and having casted abilities, in exchange for 20m-25m extra range, fusion missile, knockback with snare, ability to offspec heal, etc.

 

3-4% less DPS? No. More like ~15%. Yes, the AoE knockback is useful, particularly in Huttball. But the ability to offheal is worthless in PvP. Now compare the utility of the Merc Pyro's AoE knockback with what PT Pyro brings to the table - Grapple (singlehandedly worth as much as the AoE knockback in Huttball, plus it is useful in other maps as well), AoE stun, taunt, AoE taunt, and interrupt. Even if Merc Pyro's dps were even with PT Pyro, you'd still see PT Pyros outnumber Merc Pyros by 20:1 in ranked warzones. There's a reason for that.

 

But back to the OP's suggestion.....I wouldn't mind if Powershot was simply replaced with "FlameBurst". Make Powershot a 10m range ability that that casts instantly, autoprocs CGC and is an elemental attack. There is NO rational reason BW can come up with to not do this. It already exists in the game for a superior AC. Even with this, Merc Pyro is still inferior to PT Pyro on multiple utility issues.

[Sinsavz]

dcgregorya doesn't play merc does he?

 

Opinion discarded.

[T-Assassin]

dcgregorya doesn't play merc does he?

 

Opinion discarded.

 

i still think he has a point. Merc is not 'useless' in PvP, well, Merc/PT (Arsenal is in serious need of some loving).

 

his point of survivability is VERY valid.

 

on my Merc, i average 2 deaths per match. on my VG/AS, i average 6-9 deaths. having to be >10m of the action gets me singled out quite a bit (or it could be my bright orange Trooper armor )

 

not to mention, grapple a dude into the slime/fire, you're gonna be getting a return visit...(i had 5 dudes chase me into the pit last night...LOL!! and that's how we scored our only goal...i think i deserve an assist!! not to mention i killed the BC while the entire team was surrounding him (BURST!!!), spiked the ball w/ 23 sec left, called out mid, and we picked up the ball for a 1-1 victory!!!)

 

here's the deal:

 

PT has BURST and GRAPPLE...that's it!!! that's the difference.

 

but, the biggest factor in PvP IS burst! not so much in PvE, where you can sustain a fight for several minutes.

 

PvP is all about killing or being killed, as quickly as possible....there's really no place for sustained DPS. you need to be able to finish the deal, something Merc cannot do very well, and something a PT/VG does VERY well.

 

Lastly, PT's burst is accross the board, since it is primarily elemental damage. Merc/PT relies HEAVILY on weapons damage (RS, PS, UL, RaS) meaning, they can damage any class...i leave tanks alone, until they are the only enemy >25m...

 

Merc needs some work...it can be played, and can be played well...i think i do a damn good job.

 

but, PT/VG's just do it better, faster.

Edited July 11, 2012 by T-Assassin

[Choffware]

T... you have to try the new barrage/unload now that target tracking is fixed. I'm dying to know what you think. Hits like a truck.

[T-Assassin]

T... you have to try the new barrage/unload now that target tracking is fixed. I'm dying to know what you think. Hits like a truck.

 

i'll check it out and see if i can notice any significant difference.

 

been hitting up PvE quite a bit lately and leveling an alt...

 

it's hard getting any respect as a Merc, even if you are the baddest mofo on the server

[Macroecon]

PT has BURST and GRAPPLE...that's it!!! that's the difference. but, the biggest factor in PvP IS burst! not so much in PvE, where you can sustain a fight for several minutes...PvP is all about killing or being killed, as quickly as possible....there's really no place for sustained DPS.

 

I fundamentally disagree with this line of thought. People are used to thinking about PT this way because of their experience in warzones to date which has been dominated by the 1v1 encounter. But in a match vs. highly coordinated opponents, the battles are longer and and there can be a role for sustained dps. The problem for Merc dps is that not only is their burst lower, so is their sustained dps output. And they can not make up for this via other utility methods. Frankly if your PT/Vanguard is only focusing on his burst dps and grappling, he is NOT near his full potential. The PT/Vanguard's AoE stun can single handedly turn the tide of a battle for a node if used correctly. Correspondingly his taunt and AoE taunt can easily add 10% productivity to his damage numbers, boosting his overall damage/protection/heal numbers to 25% greater than a comparably skilled Merc player. There is nothing the Merc Pyro does better than the PT Pyro - and certainly not survivability where the PT/Vanguard's interrupt is the deciding factor.

[T-Assassin]

I fundamentally disagree with this line of thought. People are used to thinking about PT this way because of their experience in warzones to date which has been dominated by the 1v1 encounter. But in a match vs. highly coordinated opponents, the battles are longer and and there can be a role for sustained dps. The problem for Merc dps is that not only is their burst lower, so is their sustained dps output. And they can not make up for this via other utility methods. Frankly if your PT/Vanguard is only focusing on his burst dps and grappling, he is NOT near his full potential. The PT/Vanguard's AoE stun can single handedly turn the tide of a battle for a node if used correctly. Correspondingly his taunt and AoE taunt can easily add 10% productivity to his damage numbers, boosting his overall damage/protection/heal numbers to 25% greater than a comparably skilled Merc player. There is nothing the Merc Pyro does better than the PT Pyro - and certainly not survivability where the PT/Vanguard's interrupt is the deciding factor.

 

yeah, tbh i really kinda disreguard the taunts, altho i should not...i use them very regularly, and if no tank is consistantly guarding, i usually lead in protection. (i'm literally taunting if not directly attacking every oppotunity i get, especially those attacking healers)

 

your point is very valid.

 

my stand on survivability, from my experiences with both, still lean towards Merc. (just because i can play the class blindfolded...Merc since Firebug days...)

 

i'm sure once i get more time on my VG, and actually run Premade (i've ONLY run solo), my opinion may veer slightly.

 

but, as i've said, in RANKED or even a premade, solid group, PT/VG definitely brings more to the table PvP wise. the burst, paired with interrupt, allows PT/VG to burn healers and most ranged DPS with little to no issue. where i have to be somewhat lucky with procs and timely stuns/kb to bring down a well played healer.

 

PvE, i know, who gives a darn , Merc (both specs) should perform slightly better than a DPS PT/VG, IMO.

[dcgregorya]

Arsenal is not even close to fine in PvP, put a decent marauder on the enemies arsenal merc, he will kill the merc in under 10s and move on, regardless of the merc's gear/skill. You essentially are playing 7v8 if you have an arsenal on your team.

 

Put a decent marauder against a terribad merc and merc dies in under 10 seconds and move on. Put a decent marauder against me and it's about 3/4 that the marauder dies after a drawn out painful fight. It sounds arrogant but it's not, it has to do with the fact that I use every skill I have. I mez and heal, I pop medpacks, I pop WZ adrenals, I pull said marauder through my allies, I cleanse his bleeds off me, I do everything it takes to win while 99.98% of other arsenal mercs I see in PVP are trying to run their PVE rotation and then being shocked when they get interrupted and stand there doing nothing.

Edited July 12, 2012 by dcgregorya

[dcgregorya]

3-4% less DPS? No. More like ~15%. Yes, the AoE knockback is useful, particularly in Huttball. But the ability to offheal is worthless in PvP. Now compare the utility of the Merc Pyro's AoE knockback with what PT Pyro brings to the table - Grapple (singlehandedly worth as much as the AoE knockback in Huttball, plus it is useful in other maps as well), AoE stun, taunt, AoE taunt, and interrupt. Even if Merc Pyro's dps were even with PT Pyro, you'd still see PT Pyros outnumber Merc Pyros by 20:1 in ranked warzones. There's a reason for that.

 

But back to the OP's suggestion.....I wouldn't mind if Powershot was simply replaced with "FlameBurst". Make Powershot a 10m range ability that that casts instantly, autoprocs CGC and is an elemental attack. There is NO rational reason BW can come up with to not do this. It already exists in the game for a superior AC. Even with this, Merc Pyro is still inferior to PT Pyro on multiple utility issues.

 

15%? You're on crack. It's rare I don't top damage but if I don't top damage and it's to a PT it's maybe 3% difference. It's called range, merc has it, PT does not - grapple is only usable once every 45 seconds and wasting it on a 1vs1 in huttball would be silly. If you'd trade power shot @ 30m for flame burst @ 10m you're playing the wrong class.

[dcgregorya]

No one is complaining about our DPS. Hell, I know as Pyro we're just fine in that department when it comes to PvP. It's the lack of basic utility that other classes have that we don't is what most are trying to point out. THat and Pyro mercs do need an ability that has a 100% CGC proc on it...

 

We don't have utility? We can offspec heal to keep people up when needed, cleanse for 1vs1's, we have 2 knockbacks (arsenal), a mez, a hard stun and tons of damage potential. What utility do you want exactly?