How would you go about neutrality tiers?

[chimunga]

There's been some discussion about the lack of neutral-based leveling relics in the game. And while some think it would just be best to remove the whole LS/DS system from relics, I think it would be great to have neutrality tiers, just like you have LS/DS tiers.

 

Obviously, it would have to work different from LS/DS tiers. You can't just say that you have to have 5000+ LS points, and 5000+ DS points. That would cause uneveness, because I could have say 5117 LS points and 8006 DS points. And that's not neutrality. I think it would be best to require like 1000+ LS and 1000+ DS and have them within 200 points of each other.

 

Am I over complicating things? Should the whole system for relics just be taken out so that everyone can use them?

 

How would you go about it?

 

(Also, please don't tell me to just pick a side. BW puts a big point on story in the game, and I should not have to sacrifice my story options for gear. There should be options for everyone.)

[InnerPieces]

My thought was always something like 1000 LS and 1000 DS = Neutral I. That sort of thing. It should be far more difficult to remain neutral in a setting like this and makes neutrality something more interesting.

 

Unfortunately, I already have 5 capped and I'm working on my 6th. An introduction of neutrality would be too little, too late for me (pending my attention is held long enough for more slots and my attention is held long enough to enjoy them lol). I'd have loved a neutral option from the beginning.

Edited June 27, 2012 by InnerPieces

[chimunga]

My thought was always something like 1000 LS and 1000 DS = Neutral I. That sort of thing. It should be far more difficult to remain neutral in a setting like this and makes neutrality something more interesting.

 

Unfortunately, I already have 5 capped and I'm working on my 6th. An introduction of neutrality would be too little, too late for me (pending my attention is held long enough for more slots and my attention is held long enough to enjoy them lol). I'd have loved a neutral option from the beginning.

 

 

Yes, but having it 1000 LS point and 1000 DS points means that anyone could be considered neutral. My Level V LS Consular has more than 1000 DS points. So would she be considered neutral too? Probably not. There has to be a cap as to how far the points can be from eachother.

[Raekor]

Yes, but having it 1000 LS point and 1000 DS points means that anyone could be considered neutral. My Level V LS Consular has more than 1000 DS points. So would she be considered neutral too? Probably not. There has to be a cap as to how far the points can be from eachother.

 

That's actually impossible. Level V is achieved with 10000 points, but the max you can have is also 10000. So if you have 9000 LS and 1000 DS, when you get 100 more LS you will minus it from the DS. You end up with 9100 LS and 900 DS.

 

Additionally if you have 10000 LS and are level V LS, if you get DS you go down and lose your title and are demoted to level IV.

 

Edit: I hope that made sense.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Raekor

[InnerPieces]

Yes, but having it 1000 LS point and 1000 DS points means that anyone could be considered neutral. My Level V LS Consular has more than 1000 DS points. So would she be considered neutral too? Probably not. There has to be a cap as to how far the points can be from eachother.

 

Well no because LS V is far more than 1000 DS points and therefore would not balance out and not be neutral. I see where you are coming from though and agree there should be a limit how far one can go from the other or else you lean more toward one side than the other. You could still balance it out both ways though. Sorry I don't know how many points are needed per level off the top of my head. Let's say, for the sake of arguement, you need a thousand times the level you want. 1,000 = 1, 2,000 = 2, etc. In that case, you could still need 2,000 LS and 2,000 DS points to be Neutral II with 500 points of wiggle room. So if I had 2,000 LS points and 2,420 DS points, I'd still be neutral. If I keep acting passionately, the dark side will overcome me. Instead, I have to calm myself and react more logically for awhile. I bring my LS up to 2450 with DS 2420 and now I can act out of emotion again. As long as you keep leap-frogging the point of separation (in this case 500 points) you remain neutral.

 

I'd like to think I'm normally better at explaining myself, but I am tired. Agree or not... I just hope it made sense.

Edited June 27, 2012 by InnerPieces

[chimunga]

Well no because LS V is far more than 1000 DS points and therefore would not balance out and not be neutral. I see where you are coming from though and agree there should be a limit how far one can go from the other or else you lean more toward one side than the other. You could still balance it out both ways though. Sorry I don't know how many points are needed per level off the top of my head. Let's say, for the sake of arguement, you need a thousand times the level you want. 1,000 = 1, 2,000 = 2, etc. In that case, you could still need 2,000 LS and 2,000 DS points to be Neutral II with 500 points of wiggle room. So if I had 2,000 LS points and 2,420 DS points, I'd still be neutral. If I keep acting passionately, the dark side will overcome me. Instead, I have to calm myself and react more logically for awhile. I bring my LS up to 2450 with DS 2420 and now I can act out of emotion again. As long as you keep leap-frogging the point of separation (in this case 500 points) you remain neutral.

 

I'd like to think I'm normally better at explaining myself, but I am tired. Agree or not... I just hope it made sense.

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

That's actually impossible. Level V is achieved with 10000 points, but the max you can have is also 10000. So if you have 9000 LS and 1000 DS, when you get 100 more LS you will minus it from the DS. You end up with 9100 LS and 900 DS.

 

Additionally if you have 10000 LS and are level V LS, if you get DS you go down and lose your title and are demoted to level IV.

 

Edit: I hope that made sense.

 

Maybe my numbers are off. I haven't played my Shadow in a while. But I understand what you're saying.

[Raekor]

That is what I was thinking as well, given a max of 10,000 points.

 

Rank 1 - 1,000/1,000

Rank 2 - 2,000/2,000

Rank 3 - 3,000/3,000

Rank 4 - 4,000/4,000

Rank 5 - 5,000/5,000

 

I could see my smuggler or operative doing this, if I ever get to play her or him again.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Raekor

[InnerPieces]

That's actually impossible. Level V is achieved with 10000 points, but the max you can have is also 10000. So if you have 9000 LS and 1000 DS, when you get 100 more LS you will minus it from the DS. You end up with 9100 LS and 900 DS.

 

Additionally if you have 10000 LS and are level V LS, if you get DS you go down and lose your title and are demoted to level IV.

 

Edit: I hope that made sense.

 

That does make perfect sense as to how it currently works. I think we are discussing ways of implementing a neutrality concept into the current system. I could be wrong, though. Honestly, we could just let it all make sense and make Smugglers and Bounty Hunters neutral too. Of course, we'd have to go back in time several years to make that possible. Oh, and be a major component of the development team. But eh.. it's fun to speculate sometimes.

[chimunga]

That is what I was thinking as well, given a max of 10,000 points.

 

Rank 1 - 1,000/1,000

Rank 2 - 2,000/2,000

Rank 3 - 3,000/3,000

Rank 4 - 4,000/4,000

Rank 5 - 5,000/5,000

 

I could see my smuggler or operative doing this, if I ever get to play her or him again.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking too. To be fair though, you'd have to half the current tier numbers. I don't have the numbers in my head right now, but I think the first tier is 1000, and the next is 3000, and after that it's maybe 6000? I don't remember. But if we pretend those numbers are correct, for neutral tiers, I was thinking it would be like

 

R 1- 500/500

R 2- 1500/1500

R 3- 3000/3000

 

And so on. The only reason I say that is because it creates an equality to the LS/DS tiers, because you're achieving the same amount of points.

 

That does make perfect sense as to how it currently works. I think we are discussing ways of implementing a neutrality concept into the current system. I could be wrong, though. Honestly, we could just let it all make sense and make Smugglers and Bounty Hunters neutral too. Of course, we'd have to go back in time several years to make that possible. Oh, and be a major component of the development team. But eh.. it's fun to speculate sometimes.

 

Ah, don't we all wish that. It would only make sense or something.

[Raekor]

Yeah, I'd forgotten what the beginning tiers were at. I wonder if we will see it in 1.4 (I have a feeling coding it is going to be a lot harder than we make it out to be for some reason).

[chimunga]

Yeah, I'd forgotten what the beginning tiers were at. I wonder if we will see it in 1.4 (I have a feeling coding it is going to be a lot harder than we make it out to be for some reason).

 

You're probably right. It just sucks, because I have a sniper that's sitting at 3335 DS and 3278 LS. And I got nothin to show for it. The only relics I can use are Matrix cubes, and you can only use one of those. I feel jipped. It's hard staying Neutral. Lots of diplomacy fine-tuning/

[Raekor]

Yeah, it is annoying. Thankfully once you hit 50 the LS/DS relics are useless and they are all neutral.

 

If/when they implement it I think they need to have some comparable but still different campaign level alignment affected relics. Not sure how that would work either, unless the give you a "spell" that is useful and people can see your alignment from it's use. More of an RP thing though.

[chimunga]

Yeah, it is annoying. Thankfully once you hit 50 the LS/DS relics are useless and they are all neutral.

 

If/when they implement it I think they need to have some comparable but still different campaign level alignment affected relics. Not sure how that would work either, unless the give you a "spell" that is useful and people can see your alignment from it's use. More of an RP thing though.

 

I know. That's what everyone keeps telling me, but I'm a leveler, not an endgame-er. And the Devs seem for us to want to focus on alts. They talk about it all the time. So I just wish there were more options.

Edited June 27, 2012 by chimunga