Infiltration

[reinforever]

...and how exactly does this thread disprove my claims against infil?

 

Claims (in no particular order)

 

1. Not very Team Geared. Response: exceptional at stalling until help can arrive due to cc's and whatnot. Also quick to cap nodes out of stealth usually as stated above.

 

2. Predictable. Response: Very short rotation, and even if the big hit is countered, it's quick to be back (way I play anyways, especially after 1.3 hits also)

 

3. Force manageability. Response: Theres a perk or two that allows for faster regen, so I hardly EVER run out of force, and if I do, I pop blackout and restore it back and then all is well.

 

There's probably a couple others you have I'd be glad to counter.

[Xinika]

Claims (in no particular order)

 

1. Not very Team Geared. Response: exceptional at stalling until help can arrive due to cc's and whatnot. Also quick to cap nodes out of stealth usually as stated above.

 

2. Predictable. Response: Very short rotation, and even if the big hit is countered, it's quick to be back (way I play anyways, especially after 1.3 hits also)

 

3. Force manageability. Response: Theres a perk or two that allows for faster regen, so I hardly EVER run out of force, and if I do, I pop blackout and restore it back and then all is well.

 

There's probably a couple others you have I'd be glad to counter.

 

1 - Due to single target CCs? How well is that fending off against multiple people? Scrappers have one of the best aoe mezzes in-game. Guardians... let's not even go there.

2 - 2x CS. Oh now what?

3 - Delayed battles (which will occur moreso in 1.3) will make this impact more.

 

Perhaps you are used to small scale encounters, and that somehow makes you think the spec is fine. Let's see that when rateds come out.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Xinika

[teremx]

Claims (in no particular order)

 

1. Not very Team Geared. Response: exceptional at stalling until help can arrive due to cc's and whatnot. Also quick to cap nodes out of stealth usually as stated above.

 

2. Predictable. Response: Very short rotation, and even if the big hit is countered, it's quick to be back (way I play anyways, especially after 1.3 hits also)

 

3. Force manageability. Response: Theres a perk or two that allows for faster regen, so I hardly EVER run out of force, and if I do, I pop blackout and restore it back and then all is well.

 

There's probably a couple others you have I'd be glad to counter.

 

1) Better to cap nodes out of stealth? Sure you have Increased stealth level baseline, but ANY OTHER spec(except my Arika) can use blackout to increase stealth level to be undetectable, where you have to save it for regen in Inf.

 

2) If it's countered, odds are everyone's seen spinny 1 and spinny 2. You might not be around to see another project, let alone spinny 3.

 

3) It's worse than Balance and Kin's force replenish skills.

[reinforever]

1) Better to cap nodes out of stealth? Sure you have Increased stealth level baseline, but ANY OTHER spec(except my Arika) can use blackout to increase stealth level to be undetectable, where you have to save it for regen in Inf.

 

2) If it's countered, odds are everyone's seen spinny 1 and spinny 2. You might not be around to see another project, let alone spinny 3.

 

3) It's worse than Balance and Kin's force replenish skills.

 

1. I don't HAVE to save it for a quick regen.

 

2. Lack of argument on your part.

 

3. Our replenish skills aren't what make it manageable, it also has a lot to do with how inexpensive our moves are. The only time I ever need to pop blackout for force is if I'm doing stuns.

[reinforever]

1 - Due to single target CCs? How well is that fending off against multiple people? Scrappers have one of the best aoe mezzes in-game. Guardians... let's not even go there.

2 - 2x CS. Oh now what?

3 - Delayed battles (which will occur moreso in 1.3) will make this impact more.

 

Perhaps you are used to small scale encounters, and that somehow makes you think the spec is fine. Let's see that when rateds come out.

 

1. Mind maze works wonders while you take down a second person. As for 3 people on one, anyone would die.

 

2. You forgot the occasional SS proc and Exit strategy, making it a little less predictable.

 

3. I'm assuming you're thinking stuff will be delayed because of the adrenal and relic changes, but relic changes just mean that it'll be on me all the time, and I never used adrenals in the first place so no, they won't be longer for me, if anything they will be shorter.

 

And how exactly will rateds make it so that people won't try to solo cap?

[teremx]

1. I don't HAVE to save it for a quick regen.

 

2. Lack of argument on your part.

 

3. Our replenish skills aren't what make it manageable, it also has a lot to do with how inexpensive our moves are. The only time I ever need to pop blackout for force is if I'm doing stuns.

 

1) You don't have to, but if you don't all of a sudden #3 becomes a problem

 

2) Really? So saying you will likely be dead before you can continue your rotation against decent players if it's stopped the first time is a lack of an argument?

 

3) Spinny x2, thats 25 each, 25 for a SS, 23 for project. 98 force over 4 GCDs. Unless you've hacked your force regen up i would hardly call the moves inexpensive when combined.

 

I'm done buddy, either you're having fun trolling or you were a die-hard rouge in another game and have a need to be pure melee.

Edited June 26, 2012 by teremx

[reinforever]

1) You don't have to, but if you don't all of a sudden #3 becomes a problem

 

2) Really? So saying you will likely be dead before you can continue your rotation against decent players if it's stopped the first time is a lack of an argument?

 

3) Spinny x2, thats 25 each, 25 for a SS, 23 for project. 98 force over 4 GCDs. Unless you've hacked your force regen up i would hardly call the moves inexpensive when combined.

 

I'm done buddy, either you're having fun trolling or you were a die-hard rouge in another game and have a need to be pure melee.

 

1. Like I said I only use blackout for stuns, and rarely ever for when I'm doing a rotation so NO it doesn't become a problem.

 

2. I watch for their counters, if they pop one before I fire off a strong hit, I'll save the others and do CS or saber strikes to stack exit strategy until his counter wears off and then resume the rotation OR I could go for stuns which sometimes I will do, but only if I haven't popped my blackout to sneak up on them.

 

3. Combined with the 10 force regained every 10 sec~ and the force regen for first 6 sec, yeah it makes it seem pretty inexpensive. No I don't survive drawn out fights, usually it doesn't get to that though.

 

TBH this is my first mmo and no I'm not trolling, I just hope to help people realize that this spec is on par with others

[Xinika]

1. Like I said I only use blackout for stuns, and rarely ever for when I'm doing a rotation so NO it doesn't become a problem.

 

2. I watch for their counters, if they pop one before I fire off a strong hit, I'll save the others and do CS or saber strikes to stack exit strategy until his counter wears off and then resume the rotation OR I could go for stuns which sometimes I will do, but only if I haven't popped my blackout to sneak up on them.

 

3. Combined with the 10 force regained every 10 sec~ and the force regen for first 6 sec, yeah it makes it seem pretty inexpensive. No I don't survive drawn out fights, usually it doesn't get to that though.

1 - PvP is a constant shift in tactics and metagame, you're bound to run into it sooner or later.

2 - Again, what is with this 1v1 argument? 1v1 does not mean this spec is group viable. See what I did there?

3 - But what happens if it does? I mean, are you fighting players partially afk or something?

 

 

TBH this is my first mmo and no I'm not trolling, I just hope to help people realize that this spec is on par with others

 

... so take advice from people who have been playing multiple MMOs for years. It's not on par.

You need to play at a competitive level, and hopefully tomorrow will give you that opportunity.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Xinika

[reinforever]

... so take advice from people who have been playing multiple MMOs for years. It's not on par.

 

Just because It's a spec you're not used to using doesn't mean it's not as good as other specs. Maybe for YOU that's the case, but not everyone else. If you think that infil sucks and swear to never use it, so be it, I just hope that you let others decide for themselves instead of being quick to jump in and say not to. I respect the specs you've chosen and made, but I personally don't do as well with them as I do with infil, as is the case with others as well.

 

ALSO one last thing before I stop arguing/wasting my time with you. Capping and defending nodes AS SOLO are definitely group beneficial.

Edited June 26, 2012 by reinforever

[Xinika]

Just because It's a spec you're not used to using doesn't mean it's not as good as other specs. Maybe for YOU that's the case, but not everyone else.

 

I leveled as Infil 11-50 in warzones ( I did no questing) and majority my time spent as a Shadow overall has been as infil. I find the spec fun and believe it's the way a Shadow should be played but I'm not blind to it's dramatic drawbacks. Nice one though.

 

If you think that infil sucks and swear to never use it, so be it, I just hope that you let others decide for themselves instead of being quick to jump in and say not to. I respect the specs you've chosen and made, but I personally don't do as well with them as I do with infil, as is the case with others as well.

 

At no point I ever "swore" not to use it. I use whatever is most beneficial to a team effort. If it was Infil, then I would be maining it. Unfortunately it's not. I'm not telling you to use my specs. I'm telling you to be open-minded and unbiased.

 

ALSO one last thing before I stop arguing/wasting my time with you. Capping and defending nodes AS SOLO are definitely group beneficial.

 

And what other class/spec can't do that? Hm? Your argument is flawed, but you're obviously some die-hard infil (fan?) or something. When someone tells you otherwise, you blast them with ignorance and the argument "I'm right, you're wrong". Quick question: Have you tried any other spec? How much do you even know about your own Shadow?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Xinika

[reinforever]

Quick question: Have you tried any other spec? How much do you even know about your own Shadow?

 

 

Leveled completely as a Balance spec. since then I tried a KC spec for a week. Arika for a couple days then switched to infil, switched to a kc balance hybrid then finally back to ifnil and stayed there. So i have quite a bit of experience with the specs.

[Xinika]

Leveled completely as a Balance spec. since then I tried a KC spec for a week. Arika for a couple days then switched to infil, switched to a kc balance hybrid then finally back to ifnil and stayed there. So i have quite a bit of experience with the specs.

 

And how long have you been playing Infil?

[reinforever]

And how long have you been playing Infil?

Combined total, probably 2 weeks. Been playing almost every day almost all day cause it's summer break for me.

[Xinika]

Combined total, probably 2 weeks.

 

This makes sense.

[reinforever]

This makes sense.

 

Elaborate.

[InariOkami]

Elaborate.

 

Just wait till tomorrow and you'll understand

[TERRAFIRMA]

I've been playing Infiltration since launch... about 33 days play time atm <- get a life bro!

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed this spec albeit that it has diminished in PVP viability since 1.2 due to many of the issue's that has been bought up in this and many other threads...

 

I agree that the Infil spec is probably the worst spec for group support in a burst damage role...

 

After 1.2 I altered my play style more to suit the outcome of the game... I run a standard PVE oriented 02/31/08 spec and I certainly do not go to the lengths of gear itemisation as some of you.. I'm geared in all augmented stalker (some Warhero rest BM)...

 

I generally top the table in every game of PVP I play.. even if we lose. I don't top the table in damage, kills, healing or protection or even objectives... it's because I have a presence in each stat column...

 

I'm not kidding myself that I can burst down a geared tank... or solo against two people, so I don't... I target the weak or those who I see have used defensive or offensive cool downs... I stand in a tank stance, guard another player (generally a healer) and work around the madness, using AoE taunts and picking my target carefully... Whilst stealthed I mark key targets for the group, ninja cap and I've also found the class/ spec great at preventing caps, even against 2 or 3 for a good 10 - 15 seconds which makes all the difference...

 

Not as annoying as a operative (man I hate the sound of that shiv) not as damaging as a sentinel, not as durable or versatile as a Vanguard but I enjoy the role they can play if played well.

 

I sincerely hope they geninunely review and rework the infil spec - it was good - it could be great again if they added some thought into the ethos of the class - more abilities to support group dynamics - I know a shadow is supposed to run solo but surely there could be some sort of "veil" they could throw down similiar to the vanguard smoke bomb that reduces enemy stats and increases crit/ surge or something that is comparable to inspiration...

 

Anyway I enjoy the class and the spec - dissapointing when it so affected by change in the game and hope they make some positive rectifications to the spec/ class soon

 

You won't see me in 1.3... I'll be stealthed in the corner and it's not because I'm scared.. I just dropped something and I'm looking for it

[richardya]

Just one comment about the "Predictability" of infiltration.

This is really only an issue in a 1 v 1 battle. If you're in a mosh of battle, it is common to do the two twirls on one target and then unload on another. Additionally, if there is someone else (or multiples) attacking your target, the target may not be concentrating on you. Most players don't know when to pop the defensive, (in high level ranked this will change.)

 

I have big issues with force management & I would like some type of buff to the regeneration or to Proundity/Blackout. It just doesn't work out if you are doing what you are supposed to. I think when you play against teams of well geared people and you unload everything and they are still up, you can not be out of resource when the spec has defensive weakness (ie glass canon.)

 

I have been doing pretty well with infiltration. The War Zones in SWToR generally favor the player that is alert and tactical and knows the other classes/players, more than the player who maxes out his damage. However, if playing in high level ranked where everyone is playing at a high level and well geared, I fear I will be forced to switch to KC.

Edited June 26, 2012 by richardya

[Deathstroke]

Sever Force; that is all.

 

Exactly. People, you can't play balance like infiltration. Infiltration is bursty and promise you, well geared, competent players you can't burst.

 

Sever Force is an awesome utility and damaging skill it by passess resolve, adds consistent pressure with dots and most of all roots. Play against a marauder/Sentinnel who relies on force leap to not only stay and in range and do damage but build rage/focus and with sever force you can completely dance around outside the melee range and really put the class to shame.

 

I played KC and you can do the same but it's just you eating there damage with better self healing and longer duration of resilience 1.3 doesn't help that. Balance capitalizes on control. If you like to control a fight. Go balance.

[teremx]

Exactly. People, you can't play balance like infiltration. Infiltration is bursty and promise you, well geared, competent players you can't burst.

 

Sever Force is an awesome utility and damaging skill it by passess resolve, adds consistent pressure with dots and most of all roots. Play against a marauder/Sentinnel who relies on force leap to not only stay and in range and do damage but build rage/focus and with sever force you can completely dance around outside the melee range and really put the class to shame.

 

I played KC and you can do the same but it's just you eating there damage with better self healing and longer duration of resilience 1.3 doesn't help that. Balance capitalizes on control. If you like to control a fight. Go balance.

 

I've gone toe to toe with a great unkillable Jugg from my server as Balance, it was going pretty good... fight lasted forever and ended when 3+ from each team came .

[reinforever]

Just wait till tomorrow and you'll understand

 

Hey it's "tomorrow" now, just wanted to say that DAMN I'm happy with the changes made. Played 4 ranked with my guild and won 3. No complains from my guild about being a ****** spec seeing as to how I was capping and defending nodes like no other and was usually ranking in the top 4 of the team except the one we lost (huttball). My theory was correct, I still have a burst, but I just have a lot of damage being put out during some of the CD's as well ahh this was a great patch.

[stephenalandavie]

Exactly. People, you can't play balance like infiltration. Infiltration is bursty and promise you, well geared, competent players you can't burst.

 

Sever Force is an awesome utility and damaging skill it by passess resolve, adds consistent pressure with dots and most of all roots. Play against a marauder/Sentinnel who relies on force leap to not only stay and in range and do damage but build rage/focus and with sever force you can completely dance around outside the melee range and really put the class to shame.

 

I played KC and you can do the same but it's just you eating there damage with better self healing and longer duration of resilience 1.3 doesn't help that. Balance capitalizes on control. If you like to control a fight. Go balance.

 

Is there any real benefit to force technique though as balance?

[Deathstroke]

Is there any real benefit to force technique though as balance?

 

Balance revolves around force technique. Without Force technique, the theme of the tree and it's synergy is pointless. Unless you tend to go hybrid and if that is the case you won't being throwing much dots, utilizing force technique or have enough skill points to pick up sever force.