Infiltration

[MiaRB]

MiaRB, I've only read a handful of your posts but your information is laughably inaccurate and it seems like you're a diehard Infil fanboy. I guess having a favourite spec is cool or whatever, but completely disregarding the merits of other specs seems close minded and stupid.

 

Anyway, you seem like you're pretty bad at this game from what I have read and would greatly appreciate it if you stopped posting because you suck.

 

Thanks.

 

where am i disregarding the merits of other specs? ive said many time, all shadow specs are good and people should play the one that fits how they like to play and is fun. what information is "laughably" inaccurate? when i say that 18% critrate is way to low for inf spec?

Edited June 23, 2012 by MiaRB

[InariOkami]

im not going to go look for it, was either at guild sumit or maybe one of the weekly Q&As. when talking about the 1.2 changes they said that augments caused their target numbers to be overshot( in PVE as well as PVP). it may not seem like much, but that number gets amplified on crit attacks and gets amplified even more with WZ adrenal boost. the higher your base damage the bigger the boost from WZ adrenals and then those numbers gets amped up even more when you are talking about a team of 8 people.

 

yes, getting ride of WZ adrenal damage boost and the changes to relics will cut down on a damage boost. which is a good thing overall, because the amount of damage people could put out with relics and adrenals was pretty over the top. but, it will not hurt any class/spec more than any other because, as i said, you are spending most of your time in WZs without either.

 

specs that can single target damage with bursts will still burst and will still be effective and needed. with full time static boost from relics and with more augments slots damage will still be up overall in WZs. keeping the damage reduce part of WZ adrenals will counter that somewhat.

 

anyway, tuesday will be here soon enough and everyone can play and see for themselves.

 

Even if you multiplied 24 by however much surge you had it would come nowhere near an overall 12-15% damage increase. Arguments like "herp i hit someone for 7k with project in infiltration , it's viable l2p!!!!" and "everyone plays kinetic cuz they suck, infiltration is good" are ridiculous. There's a reason that an overwhelming majority of shadows and assassins play KC/darkness in pvp, and that's because we've been pidgeonholed as a class into playing it to be viable, and it's one of the best specs in the game right now. Quit attacking people because they play a spec that's designed to be viable; infiltration needs to be thrown out and reworked completely. It's a one trick pony thats extremely easy to counter for anyone with a brain, and even if yo manage to kill someone, you're a sitting duck for 75 seconds and totally worthless. Don't get me wrong, I love the spec, but it just has no place for anyone who wants to be serious in pvp, and is going to be in an even deeper hole of awfulness come 1.3. People like you that claim the spec is any good are just holding the people who actually want it to be good back from getting the buffs that we need to a tree that is just terrible.

Edited June 23, 2012 by InariOkami

[Xinika]

im not going to go look for it, was either at guild sumit or maybe one of the weekly Q&As. when talking about the 1.2 changes they said that augments caused their target numbers to be overshot( in PVE as well as PVP). it may not seem like much, but that number gets amplified on crit attacks and gets amplified even more with WZ adrenal boost. the higher your base damage the bigger the boost from WZ adrenals and then those numbers gets amped up even more when you are talking about a team of 8 people.

 

yes, getting rid of WZ adrenal damage boost and the changes to relics will cut down on a damage boost. which is a good thing overall, because the amount of damage people could put out with relics and adrenals was pretty over the top. but, it will not hurt any class/spec more than any other because, as i said, you are spending most of your time in WZs without either.

 

specs that can single target damage with bursts will still burst and will still be effective and needed. with full time static boost from relics and with more augments slots damage will still be up overall in WZs. keeping the damage reduce part of WZ adrenals will counter that somewhat.

 

anyway, tuesday will be here soon enough and everyone can play and see for themselves.

 

You don't seem to get it. It's not the damage that's the issue. (Maybe the way the damage is done)

Instead of foaming at everything I post, try reading.

[MiaRB]

Even if you multiplied 24 by however much surge you had it would come nowhere near an overall 12-15% damage increase. Arguments like "herp i hit someone for 7k with project in infiltration , it's viable l2p!!!!" and "everyone plays kinetic cuz they suck, infiltration is good" are ridiculous. There's a reason that an overwhelming majority of shadows and assassins play KC/darkness in pvp, and that's because we've been pidgeonholed as a class into playing it to be viable, and it's one of the best specs in the game right now. Quit attacking people because they play a spec that's designed to be viable; infiltration needs to be thrown out and reworked completely. It's a one trick pony thats extremely easy to counter for anyone with a brain, and even if yo manage to kill someone, you're a sitting duck for 75 seconds and totally worthless. Don't get me wrong, I love the spec, but it just has no place for anyone who wants to be serious in pvp, and is going to be in an even deeper hole of awfulness come 1.3. People like you that claim the spec is any good are just holding the people who actually want it to be good back from getting the buffs that we need to a tree that is just terrible.

 

who am i "attacking"? who have i told to play inf spec? im not the one who chimes in with, "inf sucks and anyone who says otherwise is a fanboy or is lying". ive said many times that all three specs are good and people should play the one they like and have fun playing.

 

it doesnt mater one bit what i say on the forums. there are enough people who play inf spec and do well for BW to look at metrics and see that its not nearly as bad as complainers claim. yes, i get that is the reason many of you get so upset and throw insults around anytime anyone says they do fine with the spec. no need to get all upset. if the spec is not performing then BW will make adjustments to it, like they do with other specs. but those changes will be based off actual data from the game.

 

as far as one trick pony, its only that way if YOU choose to make it that way. low acc, low crit, high power stats = one trick pony that cant do much until potency comes off CD. on the other hand, enough acc and the right critrate, and it isnt a one trick pony and doesnt depend on potency for crits. channeled attacks and attacks with activation times are the easiest to counter, every class can have their big attacks countered. again, with good crit and good acc, it doesnt mater if a project gets countered because you can just follow it up with another, or a shadow strike or spinning strike. and if you didnt know, there are ways to avoid having potency, project/breech countered. if you know a KC spec is going to pop res as soon as they see those two CS attacks then dont hit the with project and breech until their res is gone. wow!! so hard to do that!

 

do you think KC spec attacks cant be countered?

Edited June 24, 2012 by MiaRB

[stephenalandavie]

KC in DPS gear FTW!

[nicolasMVP]

get a room

[Xinika]

get a room

 

Derailed topic is derailed!

[Deathstroke]

One Word

 

Balance.

 

I played infiltration through rank 70. Enjoy it! However, it is lackluster in competitive group play. If you want a more offensive spec over KC go balance you will enjoy!

Edited June 24, 2012 by Deathstroke

[stephenalandavie]

Hahaha yeah okay. Says the guy who said that infiltration could beat tank specs 1v1 (Kinetic)

Oh you didn't forget about that one, did you?

 

Who says infil can beat kinetic? i laugh at the Deception assassins

[reinforever]

Infiltration hasn't been reworked because it doesn't need to be. Just like the "arika" spec it takes getting used to and some planning. It's a different playstyle than you're used to. Burst will still exist, just brought down a little while the sustained damage while waiting for CD's is going to go up. As far as team play goes, I'm the one that my guild looks to to go and cap a node when we've only got one because I take out their one person guarding the node (hey look at that, 1v1 is very useful in pvp) and take the node and usually the game. I live without stims anyways, so if anything I'm getting a boost from constant relics AND augments. Just because we're not meant to go in the midst of a battle and kill people there doesn't mean that our spec isn't viable.

[reinforever]

One Word

 

Balance.

 

I played infiltration through rank 70. Enjoy it! However, it is lackluster in competitive group play. If you want a more offensive spec over KC go balance you will enjoy!

 

I thank you for not trying to force an opinion and also suggesting something in a respectful manor, but I've played balance and didn't see it as useful as infil is to me and my team as a whole.

Edited June 25, 2012 by reinforever

[Xinika]

i laugh at the Deception assassins

Who doesn't?

[teremx]

I thank you for not trying to force an opinion and also suggesting something in a respectful manor, but I've played balance and didn't see it as useful as infil is to me and my team as a whole.

 

Sever Force; that is all.

[stephenalandavie]

Infiltration hasn't been reworked because it doesn't need to be. Just like the "arika" spec it takes getting used to and some planning. It's a different playstyle than you're used to. Burst will still exist, just brought down a little while the sustained damage while waiting for CD's is going to go up. As far as team play goes, I'm the one that my guild looks to to go and cap a node when we've only got one because I take out their one person guarding the node (hey look at that, 1v1 is very useful in pvp) and take the node and usually the game. I live without stims anyways, so if anything I'm getting a boost from constant relics AND augments. Just because we're not meant to go in the midst of a battle and kill people there doesn't mean that our spec isn't viable.

 

Its no good when it is only useful in "certain" situations as you put it, when it comes to other things this tree is lacking.

[reinforever]

Its no good when it is only useful in "certain" situations as you put it, when it comes to other things this tree is lacking.

 

It's a good defender for nodes, and it's a good solo or partner capper for nodes. There's always something for me to do, that the spec excels at.

[Xinika]

It's a good defender for nodes, and it's a good solo or partner capper for nodes. There's always something for me to do, that the spec excels at.

 

Same can be said about any spec. So what exactly is your point? Did you make this thread just to shoot down every valid point someone brings up against this spec?

[stephenalandavie]

It's a good defender for nodes, and it's a good solo or partner capper for nodes. There's always something for me to do, that the spec excels at.

 

Hardly a good defender of Nodes when up against two

[Boarg]

Hahaha yeah okay. Says the guy who said that infiltration could beat tank specs 1v1 (Kinetic)

Oh you didn't forget about that one, did you?

 

In a WZ setting, I usually beat most tanks 1v1 when I get to attack them from stealth as Infiltration. Good players too, and it usually doesn't take long. Also, other specs I technically shouldn't beat 1v1 like Annihilation/Watchman and Pyro/AS. Even good players make mistakes when they get surprised or aren't mentally prepared. Sometimes they don't have enough cooldowns on tap.

 

In a prepared duel setting, things often go differently and the good players that should win, do win.

[Boarg]

Hardly a good defender of Nodes when up against two

 

From stealth, it's better at stalling for time than most. I've kept two people busy for crazy amounts of time before...and then when they finally think they have me dead to rights -> cloak out and start over. It can do the stealth part better than KC because KC is ridiculously easy to get spotted from stealth while trying to maneuver for mind mazes, etc. KC is better at brute force defending, though.

 

No delusions about KC being able to successfully kill 2 people in a fair fight, though. And by fair I mean, not bad players in not bad gear. Any two specs in the game and KC dies if the players are even in the same neighborhood for skill.

[Xinika]

In a WZ setting, I usually beat most tanks 1v1 when I get to attack them from stealth as Infiltration. Good players too, and it usually doesn't take long. Also, other specs I technically shouldn't beat 1v1 like Annihilation/Watchman and Pyro/AS. Even good players make mistakes when they get surprised or aren't mentally prepared. Sometimes they don't have enough cooldowns on tap.

 

In a prepared duel setting, things often go differently and the good players that should win, do win.

 

No offense but I'm truly wondering what your perception of "good" players are. Especially tanks such as KCs, VGs. Guardians on a whole just should never lose either. I really should bother him to make more videos, but there is a tank in our guild that is sitting steadily at 25k hp and his skill is unquestionable. He knows what he's doing and he simply will not lose to a DPS 1v1. Nor should any (decent) tank for that matter. The tools are too simple for you to outlast your opposition.

 

Edit: Are you talking about catching them completely off-guard (IE: 20% HP?)? Or? I don't mean to come off harshly or *****y, but I'm just wondering with some of these claims.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Xinika

[Boarg]

No offense but I'm truly wondering what your perception of "good" players are. Especially tanks such as KCs, VGs. Guardians on a whole just should never lose either. I really should bother him to make more videos, but there is a tank in our guild that is sitting steadily at 25k hp and his skill is unquestionable. He knows what he's doing and he simply will not lose to a DPS 1v1. Nor should any (decent) tank for that matter. The tools are too simple for you to outlast your opposition.

 

Edit: Are you talking about catching them completely off-guard (IE: 20% HP?)? Or? I don't mean to come off harshly or *****y, but I'm just wondering with some of these claims.

 

I mean things like finding someone solo guarding at full health, usually they've been there at least a little while and not usually having any idea that action is about to ensue. Maybe I picked up a WZ buff along the way over. And by good players, I mean people in good guilds capable of making good scoreboard numbers at the least. They know how to play and win.

 

I'll also note that you've made comments yourself about being able to 1v1 virtually anyone in pretty much all the pvp specs, and regardless of bioware nerfs, etc.

 

Should they win? In many cases, yes. All the tanks should at least, but they don't. They should beat you too, but they don't. I don't always win, but usually I find a way to get the job done. Against an average player, it's usually over in 5 to 7 gcds, and I usually still have 90%+ health left...they're dead by the time they get their hand out of the cheetos bag, I guess. I don't know what they are doing. An average tank doesn't live much longer if they don't seriously start using cooldowns immediately. It could be that a lot of players don't have enough respect for Infiltration and wait too long to start using enough cooldowns. It's not like they can immune my damage...just reduce it. And if they are playing defensively to live, I'm still killing them and am way ahead on health bars. Could I beat your 25k Guardian tank? I should hope not...I shouldn't be able to carve through that much hp and that many cooldowns before running on fumes. That would be pretty much my worst possible matchup. If even KC could kill him, it would take so long that it would be pointless to try. But me and my Scrapper buddy could tear him a new one if he stayed somewhere alone, and he's not gonna do enough damage to be a threat to either of us.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Boarg

[Xinika]

I mean things like finding someone solo guarding at full health, usually they've been there at least a little while and not usually having any idea that action is about to ensue. Maybe I picked up a WZ buff along the way over. And by good players, I mean people in good guilds capable of making good scoreboard numbers at the least. They know how to play and win.

 

I'll also note that you've made comments yourself about being able to 1v1 virtually anyone in pretty much all the pvp specs, and regardless of bioware nerfs, etc.

 

Should they win? In many cases, yes. All the tanks should at least, but they don't. They should beat you too, but they don't. I don't always win, but usually I find a way to get the job done. Against an average player, it's usually over in 5 to 7 gcds, and I usually still have 90%+ health left...they're dead by the time they get their hand out of the cheetos bag, I guess. I don't know what they are doing. An average tank doesn't live much longer if they don't seriously start using cooldowns immediately. It could be that a lot of players don't have enough respect for Infiltration and wait too long to start using enough cooldowns. It's not like they can immune my damage...just reduce it. And if they are playing defensively to live, I'm still killing them and am way ahead on health bars. Could I beat your 25k Guardian tank? I should hope not...I shouldn't be able to carve through that much hp and that many cooldowns before running on fumes. That would be pretty much my worst possible matchup. If even KC could kill him, it would take so long that it would be pointless to try. But me and my Scrapper buddy could tear him a new one if he stayed somewhere alone, and he's not gonna do enough damage to be a threat to either of us.

I see. Good point.

[reinforever]

Same can be said about any spec. So what exactly is your point? Did you make this thread just to shoot down every valid point someone brings up against this spec?

 

I'm not saying this spec is BETTER than other specs. I'm saying it's not necessarily worse then others like you seem to believe. And I made this thread for people that want to spec infil but have been fed the "info" by you or others to not.

Edited June 25, 2012 by reinforever

[Xinika]

I'm not saying this spec is BETTER than other specs. I'm saying it's not necessarily worse then others like you seem to believe. And I made this thread for people that want to spec infil but have been fed the "info" by you or others to not.

 

...and how exactly does this thread disprove my claims against infil?

[teremx]

I've played most specs out there (not every variation of Kinetic or Kinetic Hybrid, but a few changes in the specs doesn't change the feel too much i would assume), and in my opinion, Infiltration is not quite garbage, but very well could/should be tomorrow. Heck, a Kin/Balance spec i made to screw around with that's 23/2/16 and runs around in Force Technique I feel is better than Infiltration, and that's sad.

 

This is my personal ranking. >/= means greater than or equal to.

Balance = Tank Hybrid = Tank >/= 23/2/16 Force Tech.>my Arkia =/>Arkia or w/e >Inf.

 

It's at the bottom of the list behind the Arkia set, Balance, my lolz Force Tech spec, and however many tank specs we have, somewhere near 3 large variations i would assume. So 6 specs, 3 of which are hybrids play better than Inf., that is once again sad.

Edited June 25, 2012 by teremx