Healers are fine. Perfectly fine. In fact probably a little more than fine.

[RickyChavez]

Yeah usually my sorc healer gets interrupted and then interrupted and then interrupted and interrupted and interrupted and then I die.

[The_Old_One]

Yeah usually my sorc healer gets interrupted and then interrupted and then interrupted and interrupted and interrupted and then I die.

 

But if you have that many interrupt on you that frequently, often you are outnumbered...

[DartLexx]

Channeled abilities can be interrupted by stuns and knockbacks. One good dps can completely shut down good Sage healer by interrupring him and making him move. If healer doesn't move he will be able do some healing, but he will die much faster.

 

IMO, Sage healers don't need any buffs in common sense. We need redesign, because lightly armored, kiting class needs at least 1 more instant heal and maybe, just maybe, 1 defensive CD that makes us uninterruptable. Sure, we should lose something in this bargain, but that will make our life much easier in PvP.

 

Basically, I want all 3 healers to be brought in line. They can have different designs, weaknesses and strong sides, but all should be overrally ballanced.

Edited June 15, 2012 by DartLexx

[LancelotOC]

Healers seem to only be a problem when you can't get any on your side in your Warzone.

[fungihoujo]

Well there you have it folks, irreputable proof that healers are fine.

 

Someone who does not play a healer, who has always said he hates healers and always been against them, and who plays a sentinel and has always said if sentinels aren't the best class in the game it is a failure on BW's part- is saying healers are fine.

 

That is the kind of unbiased truth we're looking for.

 

You accuse me of saying the same things Walsh- but you're like a broken record, and have been for months- whether it was prelaunch saying how no trooper or scoundrel should be a match for a jedi knight because that's how it is in lore, or going on for months about how you couldn't beat sorcerers before 1.2 so the nerf was deserved, and how healers are too strong and how you can't figure out how to kill them.

 

You do nothing but try to keep your vision of the game- from lore to gameplay mechanics- in favour of what you want it to be.

 

This thread is the same as every thread you post or post in- you wanting other classes to be nerfed/stay nerfed, and for your class to be buffed/stay buffed. That is all- that is always all it is.

[Helig]

Well there you have it folks, irreputable proof that healers are fine.<...........>

 

Edited because I'm an idiot who can't see sarcasm.

 

/hangs head in shame

Edited June 15, 2012 by Helig

[Digtahk]

I have played Merc healer since day 1, they were overpowered then and are still overpowered now in terms of the effect they have on the game. The fact that it feels underpowered because you go down like a sack of **** when focussed does not mean this is so. The only problem they have at the moment is resource constraints when under pressure healing themselves.

 

The fact that no premade would even entertain the idea of going into an 8 man without at least 1 healer proves this point.....Oh and playing healer in SWtor is far easier than playing DPS competently they are the very easy to play at all levels because they lack options, the real difference between a good and bad healer is a good healer knows who to keep up and who to let die.

[Kitzinger]

I'm going to chime in here as I just started healing as an Operative in PvP. I noticed that if I'm running around and trying to heal I become nothing more than a big target for the scum bag Republic bastards. Sometimes I am lucky enough to get my stealth up but pretty much it's almost instant death for me once I've brought attention that I'm a healer. A few times of that and I found a trick which was to go into cover near an object that covers me up from being seen. With that I am able to pretty much Snipe heal, cleanse, and toss Fire Grenades without being noticed. If somebody does notice me then I stealth out or throw a Flash Bang and bolt to a new hiding spot. I put out decent damage so it doesn't make sense for me o just sit back and heal. I also noticed when playing the game with other healers that most don't cleanse... the ones that do though make a huge difference.

I'm starting to get a good feeling about how to play my Operative and I would say that being able to put up a good offense when needed is just as important as putting up a good defense. Sometimes I'll team up with a Sorcerer who heals and together we put out enough burst damage to take out anybody who tries to one vs one us. My biggest fear right now is the Fire Trap, Snipers, and then Troopers.

[Kalifus]

Healing does seem to be fine atm its just that pugs make healers lives a living hell. When my BH healer is guarded he is unstoppable and can heal like no other. When he's in a pug group and everyone is doing their own thing he dies pretty fast and is no use to the team.

[fungihoujo]

I have played Merc healer since day 1, they were overpowered then and are still overpowered now in terms of the effect they have on the game. The fact that it feels underpowered because you go down like a sack of **** when focussed does not mean this is so. The only problem they have at the moment is resource constraints when under pressure healing themselves.

 

The fact that no premade would even entertain the idea of going into an 8 man without at least 1 healer proves this point.....Oh and playing healer in SWtor is far easier than playing DPS competently they are the very easy to play at all levels because they lack options, the real difference between a good and bad healer is a good healer knows who to keep up and who to let die.

 

Strawman argument when you say 'nobody will go into combat without a healer so they're fine'.

 

I could just as easily say 'no premade would even entertain the idea of going into an 8 man without at least 1 dps', what have I proven? That the role has value, nothing else.

 

It'd be like saying 'we need a helicoptor, army men, and guns to perform this black ops- but we don't have any marines so we're going to use old men in wheelchairs. Since we need people, and obviously can't have a mission without them- we can use just anyone for that role and it'll be fine'. Healers fill a role, but the quality of healing has dropped significantly with changes, while the quality of dps has gone up with changes (expertise, gear, nerfs/buffs).

 

That's all DPS nuts are saying 'a healer is able to heal more than someone without healing', fascinating discovery there, you must be proud of yourselves for figuring it out.

[Digtahk]

Healers fill a role, but the quality of healing has dropped significantly with changes, while the quality of dps has gone up with changes (expertise, gear, nerfs/buffs).

 

Please provide evidence to support this claim....I am a healer and I believe it to be just your opinion. You once again state your opinion as fact without any evidence yet fail to understand the basis for anyone else's argument.

 

The fact that healers are a requirement in any form structured pvp is actually definitive proof of their usefulness. If they were unable to get any heals off as you erroneously suggest then they would not be chosen.

 

What actually are you disputing?? Using a term like strawman when you are clueless as to its meaning just makes you look like a fool. Are you suggesting that your 8 man team would run without a healer?? The whole concept of balance is one where you bring the player not the class, there are other classes which I would def not bring to a rated wz (these are by definition in my opinion unbalanced).

 

Healers are fine....

[clearsighted]

Op/scoundrel healers are overpowered atm.

 

The other two are okay.

[DartLexx]

Why some of you use general term "healers"? Do you believe that Sage\Sorc == Commando\BH == Scoundrel\Operative in PvP? I maybe wrong, but I think that Scoundre\Op healers are fine in pvp. Not sure about Commandos\BH, though I strongly believe that Sages\Sorcs are the worst here in terms of healing (yea, we have nice Huttball utility, but who doesn't?).

 

I don't suggest that healing must be buffed or nerfed in general. I also don't know where PvP healing should be in develepers from PoV. But why three healing classes aren't ballanced? Why there's one class that most pvp players agree is the best healer, and there's another one which every burst dps tries to burn down first because it's sooo easy?

[gwath_rommelo]

Throw a commando healer in there, and see if he can survive 1vs1, non warhero gear. people never said scoundrel healer was bad(best healer atm), it is sage and commando that got hit with the no longer useful stick.

 

Agree 100%

[Orangerascal]

Oh and playing healer in SWtor is far easier than playing DPS competently they are the very easy to play at all levels because they lack options, the real difference between a good and bad healer is a good healer knows who to keep up and who to let die.

 

This part here tells me alot .

 

Healing classes are much harder to play in this game, compared to a dps class. DPS is faceroll easy because they are the aggressor. Their only role is focus fire and burst their opponents down, while occasionally throwing a CC and managing defensive cooldowns. A healer on the other hand needs to do all that, plus dodge the aggression train whilst triaging which person on your team to heal.

 

When a dps is out of position, it's fine the healer heals him or he dies. When the healer is out of position your whole team dies.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Orangerascal

[LancelotOC]

Why some of you use general term "healers"? Do you believe that Sage\Sorc == Commando\BH == Scoundrel\Operative in PvP? I maybe wrong, but I think that Scoundre\Op healers are fine in pvp. Not sure about Commandos\BH, though I strongly believe that Sages\Sorcs are the worst here in terms of healing (yea, we have nice Huttball utility, but who doesn't?).

 

I don't suggest that healing must be buffed or nerfed in general. I also don't know where PvP healing should be in develepers from PoV. But why three healing classes aren't ballanced? Why there's one class that most pvp players agree is the best healer, and there's another one which every burst dps tries to burn down first because it's sooo easy?

 

This.

 

I can speak for Sages as I play one. If you feel we are overpowered then may I suggest you roll a stealth class and camp the shuttles where levelers land on planets for your pvp fix. In my opinion it's more about you needing a big crutch to be competitive in pvp rather than sages being overpowered.

 

Try the easy stuff for now until you build up your self confidence to actually play against equals.

[fungihoujo]

Please provide evidence to support this claim....I am a healer and I believe it to be just your opinion. You once again state your opinion as fact without any evidence yet fail to understand the basis for anyone else's argument.

 

The fact that healers are a requirement in any form structured pvp is actually definitive proof of their usefulness. If they were unable to get any heals off as you erroneously suggest then they would not be chosen.

 

What actually are you disputing?? Using a term like strawman when you are clueless as to its meaning just makes you look like a fool. Are you suggesting that your 8 man team would run without a healer?? The whole concept of balance is one where you bring the player not the class, there are other classes which I would def not bring to a rated wz (these are by definition in my opinion unbalanced).

 

Healers are fine....

 

You have nothing to prove your claim either. I gave an example, a clear example that would be fairly easy for anyone to understand...

 

Oh, but you just want to insult me rather than discussing anything after all. And a healer isn't a class- all that means is that you might take 1 of 3 ACs as your healer- quite likely as you wouldn't take a DPS sorc or commando for any reason, and likely not a dps operative either.

 

Regardless- if you're going to get on someone's case about showing facts maybe you could show some facts that 'healers are fine, in fact probably more than fine' when it comes to balance. Congrats on having your own definition of balance, impressive that it's not the one anyone actually ever uses.

 

But, you want proof rather than opinion when I say that the state of healing has decreased while the state of DPSers have increased in their ability since 1.2.

 

Expertise- used to have equal values for damage, armour mitigation, and healing. Now, at 1000 expertise, you have 20% damage, 17% mitigation, 11% healing increase. You can get a couple 100 more expertise, likely around 25% damage, 14% heal increase or so. Point is- fact that damage has increased, healing has decreased in effectiveness compared to 1.2. Mitigation is also now lower than it was before.

 

Could go into the gear increase- which prompted even more increase in damage done- but it'd take a considerable amount of time to actually go through the values and I don't feel like wasting all that time.

 

TTK was made shorter in 1.2- that obviously benefits dps over healers, gives a smaller window a dps has to keep CC up and lock down, a smaller window for healers to heal up targets/self, and a smaller window for a dps to have to play well to kill a healer- while meaning healers in turn have less room to mess up than before. All benefits to dps, none to healers. That's opinion of course- opinion that's been said a million times all over these forums since 1.2 with complaints about TTK- but still opinion.

 

So, more facts. Pre 1.2- healers could burst more and had smaller windows they could be interrupted in. Example- double DI proc. In 3 seconds, after using resurgence on 6 sec CD- you could get off 2 1.5 sec DIs. Partly a bug, partly the mechanic- none the less, fact is it was significant healing burst- that is now gone in 1.2 for healers. Now, there's no 1.5 DIs, period- you have 2.5 second DI, very easy to interrupt, and takes longer to cast too. Decrease in burst, in healing, in ability to get heals off- fact supporting my claim.

 

Add to that Consumption- no longer free of health cost. Before, every 9 sec, got a free one off innervate. Now, pay 11% of your health for 8% of your force, every time. Factual decrease in resource regeneration/increase in the damage a healer takes.

 

Now, since you've called me out on presenting facts, and on saying 'Healers fill a role, but the quality of healing has dropped significantly with changes, while the quality of dps has gone up with changes (expertise, gear, nerfs/buffs).' was a lie.

 

Your turn to provide some facts to prove I am incorrect in saying the quality of healing dropped since 1.2. Remember, by your own words- wouldn't want to just be stating opinions.

[Darth_Philar]

I don't know about the other classes, but a heal specced Sorc/Sage (i.e. 31 points in the healing tree) is completely underpowered in PvP. No heal spec Sorc/Sage can survive a 1v1 against anyone, and they will die within 3-4 GCDs if the entire team isn't helping to keep them alive (guards, taunts, peels, etc.). We have to spec deep into the lightning/TK tree in order to obtain ANY form of utility that can be used to keep us alive, so deep that we aren't a heal spec anymore, but rather a low damage, low healing, short lived, hybrid pest.

[Renita]

<< Throw a commando healer in there, and see if he can survive 1vs1, non warhero gear. people never said scoundrel healer was bad(best healer atm), it is sage and commando that got hit with the no longer useful stick. >>

 

Saying commandos and sages are "no longer useful" is exaggerating any point you're trying to make to the point of being irrelevant. Also, as numerous healers liked to say pre-1.2: the game isn't about 1v1.

 

I can name 2 level 50 commandos on my server that can survive one on one given the proper cooldowns, and I fair pretty well on my level 43 toon in the lowbie bracket. As for sorcerers and sages, force speed and line of sight works for a lot of sages. They are not impossible to kill, but they don't just roll over and die unless they have several people on them stunning and rooting them so they can't get away.

 

But as you say later in your post, the game isn't about 1v1. And all healers will be extremely effective when they have the team watching their back.

[Khoraji]

I don't know about the other classes, but a heal specced Sorc/Sage (i.e. 31 points in the healing tree) is completely underpowered in PvP. No heal spec Sorc/Sage can survive a 1v1 against anyone, and they will die within 3-4 GCDs if the entire team isn't helping to keep them alive (guards, taunts, peels, etc.). We have to spec deep into the lightning/TK tree in order to obtain ANY form of utility that can be used to keep us alive, so deep that we aren't a heal spec anymore, but rather a low damage, low healing, short lived, hybrid pest.

 

Not true. Sorc/Sage healers might be the squishiest of the 3 healers, but they are just as viable.

[Darth_Philar]

Not true. Sorc/Sage healers might be the squishiest of the 3 healers, but they are just as viable.

 

Not without excessive 3rd party support they aren't. If you die, your whole team has to run back to the spawn point otherwise a lone enemy can intercept and keep you in a respawn loop.

[Khoraji]

Not without excessive 3rd party support they aren't. If you die, your whole team has to run back to the spawn point otherwise a lone enemy can intercept and keep you in a respawn loop.

 

Possibly, I dont play one. But they can put up monster healing numbers when they do have support, which you should almost always have unless your solo-q'ing with bad pugs.

[Achyllis]

After spending quite a bit of time in PvP this week I agree that Operative healers are fine now. When guarded in a WZ, disturbingly rare in PUGs, we are actually valuable. Unguarded and with CDs gone, it's just a matter of time until you wear me down.

 

Smart opponents won't let me pull them away from objectives. Others will inevitably get a kill but ideally only after I have walked them away from where they need to be.

 

I can't speak to BH and Sorc as I don't PvP on them. I created a baby tank instead so I can be sure somebody guards the healers.

 

You all make too much of Cloaking Screen! It is on a 3 minute CD and DOTs break it.

 

If the complaint is that healers are hard to kill 1 v 1 then I suggest you swap to a FPS. BW has given Force Users all sorts of utility tricks the rest of us don't have to provide some lore related inherent advantages. Those REALLY shine in PvP.

 

Why have healers and non Force users if we are to be training dummies?

[Laforet]

Throw a commando healer in there, and see if he can survive 1vs1, non warhero gear. people never said scoundrel healer was bad(best healer atm), it is sage and commando that got hit with the no longer useful stick.

 

Healers WILL BE FINE in 1.3 with the end of adrenal shot, but that doesnt delete the fact that scoundrel/operative healing is way more efficient (in PVP) than sorc or commando.

 

Commando needs more fuel and sorc needs not a straight buff but a serious overlook on the "usuability" of some of the skills (especially our long cast heal) and (maybe) a raw damage reduction cooldown, like 20% dmg reduct for like 10 secs with a 1-2 min CD, just to disincourage continuous focus fire on seers, which seems to be a no brainer right now since we are the weak link of the chain in any group fight.

 

Some tweaking is needed but im happy with the state of healing atm. Please no more sweeping changes a la 1.2, just fine tune the game now.

[Laforet]

Possibly, I dont play one. But they can put up monster healing numbers when they do have support, which you should almost always have unless your solo-q'ing with bad pugs.

 

A sorc let alone to freecast can put serious numbers, that is true. As it is true with any one class.

 

Now bear with me a moment. Whos going to let a sorc freecast in rateds? No one right. OK.

 

So when we are focused we actually need more babysitting then, lets say, a scoundrel or even a commando.

 

So in a highly competitive organized PvP match we become a liability to our team because we need more babysitting than the other healers.

 

Also the sorc cant put up big numbers when on the run (kiting) which is the only way we will survive a decent dpser because our heals on the run are lacklustre.