No luck in EC HM

[LKaras]

Does anyone have any advice? My guild has tried this raid numerous times and no matter how close we get (2-3% HP) we can't even clear the first boss. What are we doing wrong? We're all in Rakata gear. I wear all augmented gear. So why can't we kill the first boss?

 

I would love any advice, because we are completely out of ideas.

[Vankris]

i'm assuming no one died and try goes to enrage.

 

i'll tell you what we did, not sure it'll work for you.

 

we have had everyone uploading their combat log on askmrrobot (that site can merge log) and we identified some weak point in dps. our gunslinger were 700 dps, barely above the tank at 650 dps. so he spent some time on the net, looking up build and rotation, practice on its dummy in his ship, now, he's one of our top dps, about 1200 dps on toth and zorn hm.

 

beside that, the obvious, are you using all stim, are you using adrenal, do you have all the buff and debuff you need.

 

don't be affraid to use logs, they are here to help you. any information you can get on them will be useful for the next encounter as well

[Kakachan]

You have to kill these 2 giants at exactly same time, if you wipe at %2-3 that mean you kill other one too fast and the one which is still alive soft enrages, jumps and wipes most of raid, bring both to %1 at same time then finish them almost at same time, second boss is almost same also, you need to finish off both tanks at same time.

[LKaras]

You have to kill these 2 giants at exactly same time, if you wipe at %2-3 that mean you kill other one too fast and the one which is still alive soft enrages, jumps and wipes most of raid, bring both to %1 at same time then finish them almost at same time, second boss is almost same also, you need to finish off both tanks at same time.

 

We aren't killing either one.

[Kakachan]

We aren't killing either one.

 

What is your group setup? If you have gunslingers make sure you armor debuff them properly. Also make sure everyone using stims. You definitely cant do enough dps as group if it enrages, try to improve it as group with some black hole mods and augments. Even if you dont use dps meter in fight you can see who is weak chain by checking percentage on bosses and try to improve that player by helping him/her. Last solution try a more dps heavy setup with more gunslingers and sentinels.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Kakachan

[Haldirg]

If you are wiping at 2-3% , kill Toth first as his soft enrage is not so good. At roughly 5% or so , switch dps and kill Toth , and then heal through Zorn's soft enrage. By the time you get Toth down you should have 4-5% on Zorn which is like 36-45 k health( and that is not a lot ).

 

Not sure it will work 100% for you though as everything matters, healers, dps, tanks, etc., but practice makes perfect.

 

Good Luck!

Edited June 11, 2012 by Haldirg

[Styrka]

Find someone nice enough to teach your players how to deal damage. YouTube is also a good source of basic DPS tutorials.

[Typeslice]

You have to kill these 2 giants at exactly same time, if you wipe at %2-3 that mean you kill other one too fast and the one which is still alive soft enrages, jumps and wipes most of raid, bring both to %1 at same time then finish them almost at same time, second boss is almost same also, you need to finish off both tanks at same time.

 

You don't need to kill them at the exact same time, but if you are going to kill one first, make sure it's Toth. You can ping pong Zorn between your tanks and range him down. Not necessary on tanks either. Left tanks usually dies for us with right tank still at about 10% - you can zerg him down pretty easily.

[CitizenFry]

Another night, another 20 wipes on HM Z&T. We've got story mode EC basically on farm, but these guys are a roadblock.

 

Partial logs:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/2d78e708-58d6-42e3-932a-916280fdfac0/overview#d=0,b=1

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/3efe28ff-f36c-4163-a369-f5b45ef57e77/overview#d=0,b=1

 

group makeup is 2 vanguard tanks, 2 sage healers, gunnery commando, gunslinger, watchman, guardian

 

One run we got as far as Handler Murdok jumping down, but we'd already lost both tanks and one healer, and everyone else was in bad shape, so he wiped up the remainder within just a few seconds.

[schnopsnosn]

Another night, another 20 wipes on HM Z&T. We've got story mode EC basically on farm, but these guys are a roadblock.

 

Partial logs:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/2d78e708-58d6-42e3-932a-916280fdfac0/overview#d=0,b=1

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/3efe28ff-f36c-4163-a369-f5b45ef57e77/overview#d=0,b=1

 

group makeup is 2 vanguard tanks, 2 sage healers, gunnery commando, gunslinger, watchman, guardian

 

One run we got as far as Handler Murdok jumping down, but we'd already lost both tanks and one healer, and everyone else was in bad shape, so he wiped up the remainder within just a few seconds.

 

From breezing through the logs one thing is quite sure:

Your DPS suck.

[snwmnx]

There is another, more lengthy post, on HM Toth / Zorn. I would direct you to reading that as there is a lot of good info on the strategy in there.

 

Also, your DPS needs - needs - to be higher. You are most likely going to be butting against enrage unless your DPS are pushing more than 1k DPS on these guys.

Edited June 11, 2012 by snwmnx

[Mavery]

Another night, another 20 wipes on HM Z&T. We've got story mode EC basically on farm, but these guys are a roadblock.

 

Partial logs:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/2d78e708-58d6-42e3-932a-916280fdfac0/overview#d=0,b=1

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/3efe28ff-f36c-4163-a369-f5b45ef57e77/overview#d=0,b=1

 

group makeup is 2 vanguard tanks, 2 sage healers, gunnery commando, gunslinger, watchman, guardian

 

One run we got as far as Handler Murdok jumping down, but we'd already lost both tanks and one healer, and everyone else was in bad shape, so he wiped up the remainder within just a few seconds.

 

I concur with the poster above me. Your DPS aren't good enough to kill them in HM. You should be aiming for 1100+ DPS from each DPSer. This is easily fixed by theory crafting.

 

Also to add in from earlier in this thread: you do not have to kill both drouks at the same time. In fact, I recommend killing Toth before Zorn.

[CitizenFry]

Well, I found another problem in my logs...my rDPS are getting Fearful in almost half the runs. :/

 

eta: I made a graphic of a problem I think I have noticed with my rDPS, maybe this will help.

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1bVeN95Wl4WaED2URvbZELk2N9zX8us02I6ffHubzCrI/edit

Edited June 11, 2012 by CitizenFry

[TheRealCandyMan]

To be honest, at least in our guild, Toth and Zorn was the hardest boss fight in all of HM EC.

[Mavery]

Well, I found another problem in my logs...my rDPS are getting Fearful in almost half the runs. :/

 

eta: I made a graphic of a problem I think I have noticed with my rDPS, maybe this will help.

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1bVeN95Wl4WaED2URvbZELk2N9zX8us02I6ffHubzCrI/edit

 

That's just bad positioning on the part of RDPS and / or tanks. Make sure the tanks are bringing mobs to the same spot every time and tell the RDPS to sit at 29m+ and they'll never take it.

[CitizenFry]

That's just bad positioning on the part of RDPS and / or tanks. Make sure the tanks are bringing mobs to the same spot every time and tell the RDPS to sit at 29m+ and they'll never take it.

 

Quote from my gunslinger: "I was beyond 30m and I still got Fearful." But yeah, that's an rDPS positioning issue.

[Fumanchu_Fow]

Quote from my gunslinger: "I was beyond 30m and I still got Fearful." But yeah, that's an rDPS positioning issue.

 

Your Rdps is not aware of what is happening. He might have started out at 30m but you only get fearful from within 25m I believe. I've sat at about 27 for entire fight and never had it. There is no reason for a range dps to get fearful if the fight is done correctly.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Fumanchu_Fow

[jamescloutier]

There is also a dot that needs to be cleansed. It stacks and reduces your dps. If the dps class doesn't have a cleanse you'll want to get a healer to do it for them.

 

But as it has been stated in another post , bare minimum DPS should be 550 from each tank and 1100 from each DPS and at that you might just scrape by.

[Typeslice]

To be honest, at least in our guild, Toth and Zorn was the hardest boss fight in all of HM EC.

 

They're generally more forgiving than Kephess though.

[Devenia]

BW extended the range of Fearful to 30 yards in a recent patch, so you actually have to back out a few steps to avoid getting it now (I think - not entirely sure as I'm a healer usually). But yea, rDPS getting Fearful or their DoT not getting cleansed would be major dps killers. How is your melee doing though? Are the bosses going down at the same rate?

[Kiisu]

If the gear is equal then imo a gunnery commando should not out-dps a slinger. (For reference: my last Zorn kill was 371 114 dmg done (1302.3 dps) as DF slinger).

 

Also let your sentinel save insipartion for when the targets are under 30% (for that extra boost from those skills that require <30% target health) and time your relics/adrenals accordingly.

 

When it comes to positioning, dps can safely remain at 28-30m without getting fearful, as long as the spot where toth lands is at least as far as zorn. Basically rdps should remain perpendicular to the "line" between bosses, so that the landing spot for toth isn't closer to rdps than zorn itself.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Kiisu

[TheRealCandyMan]

BW extended the range of Fearful to 30 yards in a recent patch, so you actually have to back out a few steps to avoid getting it now (I think - not entirely sure as I'm a healer usually). But yea, rDPS getting Fearful or their DoT not getting cleansed would be major dps killers. How is your melee doing though? Are the bosses going down at the same rate?

 

They said they did in the patch notes but I've never got it staying at 29m.

[Aurojiin]

They said they did in the patch notes but I've never got it staying at 29m.

To the best of my knowledge, Fearful is applied 30m from the center of Toth's landing spot when he leaps. However, your range finder measures from the edge of the target's hitbox, so being 30m from Toth is over 30m from his center.

 

I find that when RDPS are picking up Fearful yet saying they're at 30m, it's because they're not at a right angle to both bosses. So while they're just on 30m away from Zorn, they are slightly closer to Toth when he lands.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Aurojiin

[Crooching]

You said one of your top dps is now at 1300, this is your problem a rakata'd out sent should be able to hit about 1500 on a training dummy, give or take some depending on exact build.

 

obviously a training dummy is a different scenario from a boss, but there isn't too much difference in first boss ec.

 

Ensure tank swaps are quick and precise, and during the red circles rock phase, make sure you keep dps up and do not run around like headless chickens

[TalkingDinosaur]

Let me tell you a story about my first run in HM EC. We got to Kephess and he enraged at 2%. He wiped my group leaving me and a healer left. I looked at his HP bar and he had 183 health left. I used Dispatch and watched as my saber was half way at him when I looked down to see the purple circle around me. Then when my dispatch was inches away I died and the fight reset.