1.3 Maras/Sents no nerfs?

[Coldin]

 

I guess my opinion is that I'd much rather see the other ACs in a Marauder-like situation, having 3 viable trees instead of only 1.

 

I can agree with that.

 

I don't think adrenal/relic changes will make much of a difference in terms of overall class balance though. Damage will just be more consistent. In some ways, it might actually be worse if everyone is really going to get a 200 increase in power 100% of the time, instead of a 400 increase just some of the time.

[Astarica]

So far as classes actually capable of doing DPS goes, you got Tankasin and Marauder and then there's everyone else in terms of survivality. Tankasins are getting nerfed next patch anyway.

 

Go play a Merc/PT if you want to see a class that doesn't have many defensive CDs. They might as well have just 1 CD (Energy Shield).

[Kawiki]

So far as classes actually capable of doing DPS goes, you got Tankasin and Marauder and then there's everyone else in terms of survivality. Tankasins are getting nerfed next patch anyway.

 

Go play a Merc/PT if you want to see a class that doesn't have many defensive CDs. They might as well have just 1 CD (Energy Shield).

 

Tankasins (in DPS gear) does not have nearly the amount of DPS as Maras. They do have similar survivability however. Why one is getting a nerf and the other is not does not make any sense.

[Invictusthetaru]

Pyro burst is being tweaked down by 1.3's hit to burst mechanics, which is really what people are talking about when they talk about Pyro DPS.

 

I don't know a lot of DPS classes that can't do 500k damage in a WZ when fighting against guarded healers and not dying themselves, and 5k burst is really not a lot at the moment.

 

Either way, I'm waiting to see how the 1.3 changes play out before I decide how I feel about Pyro burst potential, though right now it's a bit higher than what I think was intended. /shrug

 

I guess my opinion is that I'd much rather see the other ACs in a Marauder-like situation, having 3 viable trees instead of only 1.

 

Except it really isn't considering the relic change is adding +117 power per relic instead of 400 for 20 seconds. So really their damage over time will be even better, minus the whole stim use thing.

 

Powertechs will be the kings of 1.3. They are the best class at melting healers as of now, so in tandem with a maruader or snipers trauma healers won't last 3 seconds. They already don't when properly focused, but it takes much less if you have a good PT.

 

Not to mention they have a snare on an insta use attack that's easy to maintain, not that it matters because their target is dead before the 2nd snare wears off normally.

 

Only thing good about this class is that both sides can have them. Gonna need players dedicated to stunning the opposing teams powertech while you take out the healers, because they don't drop with a dedicated healer.

[Invictusthetaru]

On every singly one of my classes I would rather fight a good marauder than a good powertech. Edited June 20, 2012 by Qishari
quoted insults

[Superawesomerman]

Tankasins (in DPS gear) does not have nearly the amount of DPS as Maras. They do have similar survivability however. Why one is getting a nerf and the other is not does not make any sense.

 

Maras can be cced, tanksin cannot. If the tanksin is on the field he will have to be dealt with, no way around it.

[Invictusthetaru]

Maras can be cced, tanksin cannot. If the tanksin is on the field he will have to be dealt with, no way around it.

 

Yeah it's clear why shadows need a little nerf. I can kite marauders for days on my shadow, in fact I enjoy that they think they can kill me. Only spec that stands a chance is carnage and that's only if my sprint isn't up so I can break the throw root. Otherwise it's just spinning kick master strike and continue my rotation.

[Astarica]

Maras can be cced, tanksin cannot. If the tanksin is on the field he will have to be dealt with, no way around it.

 

It's pretty funny people always seem to argue about something along the lines of "DPS when it matters", because clearly when the Marauder is rooted 5m from his target that can't possibly be a time where you needed some "DPS when it matters" while the Tankasin can do his full rotation from 10m away. For that matter, we still edge out Mara in survivality but clearly when the Marauder is dead and back at his base, that can't possibly be a time where you need some "DPS when it matters" while the Tankasin continues fighting.

 

Of course Tankasin aren't going to beat anyone fighting a target that stays still. But the reason why there's balance is because a lot of classes are dead when you need the DPS that matters. Your 0 DPS (because you're dead) is signficantly less than my DPS in that situation.

[Superawesomerman]

On every singly one of my classes I would rather fight a good marauder than a good powertech.

 

Took on three guys with my vanguard friend coletrane the day, cc mara, stun op opener, kill sorc, kill op, attack mara, kill sorc again, cc op, kill mara, kill op, kill sorc again, lol. Would have gone on forever if that buttheads moonunit hadntve butted in. I cursed him out in guild.

[Varicite]

Except it really isn't considering the relic change is adding +117 power per relic instead of 400 for 20 seconds. So really their damage over time will be even better, minus the whole stim use thing.

 

Powertechs will be the kings of 1.3. They are the best class at melting healers as of now, so in tandem with a maruader or snipers trauma healers won't last 3 seconds. They already don't when properly focused, but it takes much less if you have a good PT.

 

King of 1.3, huh? I'd love to see it, but I don't believe it, to be honest.

 

Also, Marauders are still the best class at melting healers, hands-down. I'm not even sure where you even got the idea that PTs would be better than a class that has 2 interrupts (6 sec cd, 12 sec cd), short cd gap closer, high uptime snare, and HEALING DEBUFF.

 

I hope you aren't going to say something about Dispels, since those actually wreck Pyro PTs much more than Anni Maras.

 

Last time I checked, you can still use every single ability in your repertoire, whether or not your target is bleeding. Pyros can't.

 

Not to mention they have a snare on an insta use attack that's easy to maintain, not that it matters because their target is dead before the 2nd snare wears off normally.

 

This is somehow worse than Rupture's 50% snare that lasts 3 times as long as Flame Burst's, or the fact that you have Crippling Slash that is also a 50% snare that lasts 12 seconds? That's SIX times as long as the Flame Burst snare you're complaining about, btw, costs the same in resources and also has no cooldown.

 

Only thing good about this class is that both sides can have them. Gonna need players dedicated to stunning the opposing teams powertech while you take out the healers, because they don't drop with a dedicated healer.

 

Pyro is one of the easiest classes to ruin entirely just by putting a raid mark on them. Any 2 DPS will destroy one so long as they have any idea what to do.

 

PS) You know what other class doesn't drop with a dedicated healer...? Hint: This thread is discussing them.

 

Can we start talking about reality now, guys?

[Varicite]

Took on three guys with my vanguard friend coletrane the day, cc mara, stun op opener, kill sorc, kill op, attack mara, kill sorc again, cc op, kill mara, kill op, kill sorc again, lol. Would have gone on forever if that buttheads moonunit hadntve butted in. I cursed him out in guild.

 

Yes, I routinely demoralized terrible players on my PT too.

 

The class is very good at that. : )

[Superawesomerman]

It's pretty funny people always seem to argue about something along the lines of "DPS when it matters", because clearly when the Marauder is rooted 5m from his target that can't possibly be a time where you needed some "DPS when it matters" while the Tankasin can do his full rotation from 10m away. For that matter, we still edge out Mara in survivality but clearly when the Marauder is dead and back at his base, that can't possibly be a time where you need some "DPS when it matters" while the Tankasin continues fighting.

 

Of course Tankasin aren't going to beat anyone fighting a target that stays still. But the reason why there's balance is because a lot of classes are dead when you need the DPS that matters. Your 0 DPS (because you're dead) is signficantly less than my DPS in that situation.

 

shrug, and people still want maras nerfed.

[Invictusthetaru]

Took on three guys with my vanguard friend coletrane the day, cc mara, stun op opener, kill sorc, kill op, attack mara, kill sorc again, cc op, kill mara, kill op, kill sorc again, lol. Would have gone on forever if that buttheads moonunit hadntve butted in. I cursed him out in guild.

 

Yeah. My favorite part is when people say you can kite a powertech. Good luck kiting something with a grapple and an insta snare that does damage. On my shadow it's fine..because...well, shadows are OP. I can 1v1 them decently on my guardian as well if all my CD are up but it's a very hard fight and it's only because I'm a good player. but on my gunslinger it's just game over.

 

They can kill my slinger in about 5 seconds, I buy time when I predict railshot and get a good dodge up. I think the reason I get so frustrated is because it's such amazing damage for such a faceroll rotation. All the while knowing they can snare you if needed.

 

I would say if you are a keyboard turning clicker, play powertech. You can still do pretty well.

[Varicite]

Yeah. My favorite part is when people say you can kite a powertech. Good luck kiting something with a grapple and an insta snare that does damage. On my shadow it's fine..because...well, shadows are OP. I can 1v1 them decently on my guardian as well if all my CD are up but it's a very hard fight and it's only because I'm a good player. but on my gunslinger it's just game over.

 

They can kill my slinger in about 5 seconds, I buy time when I predict railshot and get a good dodge up. I think the reason I get so frustrated is because it's such amazing damage for such a faceroll rotation. All the while knowing they can snare you if needed.

 

I would say if you are a keyboard turning clicker, play powertech. You can still do pretty well.

 

All I really read from this is:

 

Your Shadow and Guard can beat Pyro, but you lose to them on your ranged class, so they should be nerfed?

 

And this has ... what.. to do w/ Marauders?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Varicite

[Invictusthetaru]

King of 1.3, huh? I'd love to see it, but I don't believe it, to be honest.

 

Also, Marauders are still the best class at melting healers, hands-down. I'm not even sure where you even got the idea that PTs would be better than a class that has 2 interrupts (6 sec cd, 12 sec cd), short cd gap closer, high uptime snare, and HEALING DEBUFF.

 

I hope you aren't going to say something about Dispels, since those actually wreck Pyro PTs much more than Anni Maras.

 

Last time I checked, you can still use every single ability in your repertoire, whether or not your target is bleeding. Pyros can't.

 

 

 

This is somehow worse than Rupture's 50% snare that lasts 3 times as long as Flame Burst's, or the fact that you have Crippling Slash that is also a 50% snare that lasts 12 seconds? That's SIX times as long as the Flame Burst snare you're complaining about, btw, costs the same in resources and also has no cooldown.

 

 

 

Pyro is one of the easiest classes to ruin entirely just by putting a raid mark on them. Any 2 DPS will destroy one so long as they have any idea what to do.

 

PS) You know what other class doesn't drop with a dedicated healer...? Hint: This thread is discussing them.

 

Can we start talking about reality now, guys?

 

What I love about marauders and sentinels is their predictability and knowing I can shut them down. If I don't have stuns up on a PT I know the fight won't last long. I don't think they are OP, they are just frustrating. And if you look at the classes I have you'll understand why I prefer to fight mara's.

[Superawesomerman]

Yes, I routinely demoralized terrible players on my PT too.

 

The class is very good at that. : )

 

In small engagements hybrid sage just dominates anni maras. They can't touch me, and if they attack my vanguard I just dispel his dots while your vanguard goes romping over everything, lol. Meanwhile I'm ccing anyone else who feels like interfering.

 

unless you're playing with a lot of dot classes a mara by itself is totally manageable.

[Astarica]

Pyro is one of the easiest classes to ruin entirely just by putting a raid mark on them. Any 2 DPS will destroy one so long as they have any idea what to do.

 

PS) You know what other class doesn't drop with a dedicated healer...? Hint: This thread is discussing them.

 

Can we start talking about reality now, guys?

 

The weird thing is that although I know this I don't make a beeline for the PT.

 

I can't prove it but it feels like the games where the enemy has a dominant PT as opposed to a dominant Marauder/Tankasin are easier to win. I think this is because Mara/Tankasin are the ones who are making the hard kils (against protected healers). A well protected healer is protected by both tank and DPS. That is, he has Guard but he also has guys killing whoever is on him. PT only have DPS, so they get killed by the healer's protective DPS. Mara/Tankasin can withstand the protective DPS while chasing down the healer.

 

PT are certainly very good at mashing relatively low value targets, i.e. random mid tier DPS. But Mara/Tankasin aren't bad against them either, and games are never won by how fast you can melt a Sniper or Juggernaut's face. It's definitely helpful but the game is rarely won on just that.

[Invictusthetaru]

All I really read from this is:

 

Your Shadow and Guard can beat Pyro, but you lose to them on your ranged class, so they should be nerfed?

 

And this has ... what.. to do w/ Marauders?

 

I think marauders are fine too. Must be nice to have both these classes leveled up though, huh?

[mikedee]

shrug, and people still want maras nerfed.

 

people are still saying they are fine...every class is cc'able just to many noobs that don't understand what cd's classes have.

[Superawesomerman]

Yeah. My favorite part is when people say you can kite a powertech. Good luck kiting something with a grapple and an insta snare that does damage. On my shadow it's fine..because...well, shadows are OP. I can 1v1 them decently on my guardian as well if all my CD are up but it's a very hard fight and it's only because I'm a good player. but on my gunslinger it's just game over.

 

They can kill my slinger in about 5 seconds, I buy time when I predict railshot and get a good dodge up. I think the reason I get so frustrated is because it's such amazing damage for such a faceroll rotation. All the while knowing they can snare you if needed.

 

I would say if you are a keyboard turning clicker, play powertech. You can still do pretty well.

 

bikinisage force speeds away during a stun! As long as there's Los nearby.

[Varicite]

What I love about marauders and sentinels is their predictability and knowing I can shut them down. If I don't have stuns up on a PT I know the fight won't last long. I don't think they are OP, they are just frustrating. And if you look at the classes I have you'll understand why I prefer to fight mara's.

 

LOL, okay, it does make a lot more sense now....

 

And I guess I can agree w/ you about Mara vs Pyro fights. Pyro is also pretty predictable, but it's the kind of predictable that means you are going to eat 2 Rail Shots very soon.

 

Didn't meant to jump down your throat like that. Please forgive.

[Astarica]

shrug, and people still want maras nerfed.

 

To be fair the survivality argument is generally in favor of the Marauder against any class but the Tankasin (who are definitely going to be nerfed).

 

I think Mara needs to be tweaked some, but people need to realize that a well timed root does take out a Marauder completely during these crucial moment you really need his DPS. I don't think Marauder's offense is overpowered (though it's certainly top notch) but you shouldn't do top notch DPS while being the second hardest DPS to kill.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Astarica

[Varicite]

I think marauders are fine too. Must be nice to have both these classes leveled up though, huh?

 

lol, it wasn't intended that way. I was getting my arse handed to me by Marauders on my PT, and I wasn't very good at recognizing their cooldowns to know WHAT I needed to CC.

 

So I rolled one prior to 1.2, but shelved it for a long time as I was leveling other classes.

 

I recently joined a new guild that uses me as a support DPS a lot, and I thought that Carnage would fit that bill more perfectly than anything else I had at the time, so away I went!

 

But yes, it is nice to have all of the alpha classes leveled. : P

[Invictusthetaru]

lol, it wasn't intended that way. I was getting my arse handed to me by Marauders on my PT, and I wasn't very good at recognizing their cooldowns to know WHAT I needed to CC.

 

So I rolled one prior to 1.2, but shelved it for a long time as I was leveling other classes.

 

I recently joined a new guild that uses me as a support DPS a lot, and I thought that Carnage would fit that bill more perfectly than anything else I had at the time, so away I went!

 

But yes, it is nice to have all of the alpha classes leveled. : P

 

Yeah I love my carnage mara too >. Gods of huttball. And my guardian. And my shadow. ****. So many Gods!

 

I make due on my slinger as well. And yeah it isn't that they aren't predictable, throw plastique, apply dots, rail shot, punch and or snare, rail shot. But there is just nothing you can do about it w/out cc because everything is insta cast, which is why I get frustrated I think.

[mikedee]

In small engagements hybrid sage just dominates anni maras. They can't touch me, and if they attack my vanguard I just dispel his dots while your vanguard goes romping over everything, lol. Meanwhile I'm ccing anyone else who feels like interfering.

 

unless you're playing with a lot of dot classes a mara by itself is totally manageable.

 

Unless you are very skilled a sage/sorc is destroyed by a decent mara/sent. As hybrid spec we get toasted(don't stand a chance). We need to have root(severe force) to compete with melee atm. Stop being silly...You guys should be ashamed.