1.3 Maras/Sents no nerfs?

[Superawesomerman]

The mez effectively makes you and anyone you shield immune to op openers, and reduces cooldown to sprint; i wrote more in my link. Healing something thats being focused is hard, but you should be mitigating damage as opposed to straight healing and / or healing early. If you start healing too late your target is screeeewed.

 

The damage is really nothing special :/ but the regen is nice, particularly with the high crit most sages have anyway.

[ClutchJedi]

Sorry, don't have time to read through the first 50 pages

 

I'm curious to know what you want nerfed?

 

Making undying rage have a healing debuff isn't going to help and raising the cooldown isn't going to be a option for BW. Haven't seen them change many defensive cd's in patches. Even if they do make it 2min for example, it's still going to be 1min 45sec with set bonus and 1 min 15sec in rage spec so not really going to make a difference.

 

Can't nerf saber ward or intimidating roar or you'll nerf jugs in the process whihc isn't necessary and aren't op abilities in it's self.

 

Force Camo can't be 100% reduced damage anymore, 50% only for all specs instead of 100% only for anni,. Don't know how you can necessarily nerf this without changing cd's which doesn't really make the biggest differnce. Maybe make it last less but I don't even stay in it for the whole duration.

 

Cloak of Pain is really good but only reapplies the 20% dmg reduction if you keep on hitting them so there is a way to stop the buff, JUST DON'T ATTACK THEM!!!. Not much nerfing you can do there besides the 20% whihc isn't the problem.

 

Obfuscate doesn't work on every class and it's melee range. Doesn;t really need a nerf nor is it the problem.

 

If you nerf annihilation in any way shape or form, all marauder will just go rage spec because there both pretty much on par with each other besides one being the better 1v1 and has self healing. Then you'll be even more made because they can undying rage more in rage spec and they aren't that much easier to kill to be honest. Also, they can't nerf rage without nerfing jugg and that won't happen.

 

Carnage has no extra survivability in their spec and there damage is on par with the other two but die faster, so no need to nerf them in pvp.

 

So my question is, what do you want nerf because whatever you want them to do isn't going to fix the problem. The problem is you! There is no nerf out there that would make a radical difference that wouldn't destroy the class. You want to make the class get owned in every fit and make it the worse class in the game.

Edited June 9, 2012 by ClutchJedi

[Ballzz]

Hybriding sage is Bout survival and cc, not damage. The damage is incidental. If you want to heal and not survive, that is totally up to you, but if you'd rather not take advice and qq on the forums, well, there's really nothing more to be said.

 

Thank you for bolstering the argument that healing spec sages are not viable in PVP. I accept your apology.

[HyperThomas]

This is a down right lie as a sent/mara sitting in full BM gear i was sitting at 24%...

Oh yeah: http://i46.tinypic.com/29pccah.jpg

WRONG! It is possible to get to 31.5%, or higher than 25% as you stated.

 

Rebuke (Can almost always be up and allows the sentinel to sit at 46% damage reduction (in **** gear) FACT: Shadow has no ability like this)

Guarded by the Force (Better than force shroud: FS is resistant to only force and tech attacks and therefore can be countered, GBTF cannot be countered and reduces damage by 99% from ALL sources... also need to talent FS to have it last the same amount of time as GBTF)

Saber Ward (Better than Deflection: They both last the same amount of time, but Saber Ward comes with a 25% DR to force and tech attacks)

Force cloak and force camouflage are pretty much equal, if you are dotted with force cloak, you will pop out, if you are dotted with force camouflage dots will not pop you out + 50% damage reduction and a speed increase for force camouflage.

SO yeah, overall the defensive abilities are better for Sentinel.

No response to this? I guess marauder defensive abilities are better then.

 

No stealth adds such a far more valuable stategic advantage of being able to attack who you want when you want how you want that makes it so powerfule.

Exactly what I was saying. Not that useful.

 

Actually I've seen easymode, one of the biggest contributors to the sith warrior site, who does a ton of the math and all that stuff for mara say that it worked the way i've said it on the marauder forums many times. So please sir.

 

No one takes that crappy riposte talent anyways, it's a waste and you can pull far greater value from somewhere else.

 

See my link for mara armoring values.

Well that website is wrong... and you are wrong once again... proof:

This is my level 19 sentinel on PTS. Just look at the buff bars... nub.

Before Rebuke: http://i45.tinypic.com/awex51.jpg

After Rebuke: http://i48.tinypic.com/1058z68.jpg

 

All healing classes can cleanse them and force shroud removes them. Please learn the game sir.

Um actually there is 1 Marauder dot that is not removable by anything, this is a known fact.

 

The only thing you proved is that you don't know crap about the game and you're a sub par player.

Says the guy that doesn't know that marauders can get higher damage reduction. Proven by me.

Says the guy that doesn't know how rebuke works. Proven wrong by me.

Says the guy that doesn't know that some of his DOTs are not removable. KNOWN FACT SON.

Who's the sub par player now? Who's the nub that went to the fail website that is clearly wrong?

 

Please just stop, you have lost all credibility in this thread.

[Saltydogg]

Some sort of sick joke, right?

 

NO its not. Cry babies will always cry. They are straight DPS classes. They cant heal themselves unless they are in one spec. Why do so many people cry about a melee dps that can be cc'ed and burnt down?

[dcgregorya]

It's pretty obviously that teams that are stacked with Maras/Sents are going to be the best teams. Denying that the proposed changes don't benefit them is the same as sticking your head in the sand.

 

I really don't think either of the above are true. Sentinels/marauders have short duration cooldowns. If you look at pacify, just as an example, it lasts for 4 GCDs. Camo lasts for 2.5 GCDs, and 'guarded by the force' lasts for 3 GCDs. The reason why some sentinels seem godly and others are just plain bad is that the timing is very difficult to nail down to maximize the effectiveness of those cooldowns.

 

When the TTK is longer, the inherent value of those cooldowns go down. Part of the reason why guarded by the force seems OP is because it lasts 5 seconds - which is enough time to kill some other classes under focus fire.

 

With the relic and especially adrenal changes, which will reduce burst DPS by as much as 30%+ in some of cases, the value of those cooldowns go down quite a bit.

 

You don't have to believe me either, it'll come out one way or the other and we'll both see what happens when things go live.

Edited June 9, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Xerain]

Oh yeah: http://i46.tinypic.com/29pccah.jpg

WRONG! It is possible to get to 31.5%, or higher than 25% as you stated.

 

 

Where's the full screen shot for this? I'd like to see buffs and things of the sort. the guy is sitting at 300 less str then me and 200 endurance. Also armor is determined off of armor raiting attached to the armoring so he most likely has some sort of buff applied giving him more armor.

 

 

No response to this? I guess marauder defensive abilities are better then.

 

No they're on par as i've stated before.

 

 

Exactly what I was saying. Not that useful.

 

 

Stealth not useful? Ok i just stated why it was useful, if that's not useful to you then you're not very good at pvp are you... oh wait we're here and you're calling for nerfs because you can't beat a class.

 

 

Well that website is wrong... and you are wrong once again... proof:

This is my level 19 sentinel on PTS. Just look at the buff bars... nub.

Before Rebuke: http://i45.tinypic.com/awex51.jpg

After Rebuke: http://i48.tinypic.com/1058z68.jpg

 

Muh bad I was told it worked a certain way so why would i bother looking?

 

 

Um actually there is 1 Marauder dot that is not removable by anything, this is a known fact.

 

What dot? Please tell me, bleeds are a physical effect.

 

 

Says the guy that doesn't know that marauders can get higher damage reduction. Proven by me.

 

Showing a cropped screen shot didn't prove anything, sitting in all 146 armorings i'm sitting at a little over 25% mitigation. So no... He's got some sort of buff on him that's either adding armor.

 

Something like this

http://www.torhead.com/ability/fT32OSN/reconstruct

 

or you ever stop to think he's sitting in shii-cho form? Bet you didn't.

 

Says the guy that doesn't know how rebuke works. Proven wrong by me.

 

I was told how it worked by someone else muh bad i was wrong. oh well.

 

Says the guy that doesn't know that some of his DOTs are not removable. KNOWN FACT SON.

 

What dot isn't removable??? please tell me.

 

Who's the sub par player now? Who's the nub that went to the fail website that is clearly wrong?

 

Who is the one crying for nerfs? Not me. Oh boo hoo hoo marauders can get the same armor as assassins for up to 50% of the time.

 

Please just stop, you have lost all credibility in this thread.

 

OOoooo i was wrong on one thing, oh well. You're still crying for nerfs.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Xerain

[HyperThomas]

OOoooo i was wrong on one thing, oh well. You're still crying for nerfs.

 

Not crying for nerfs, simply stating the facts, I pointed out one thing that i had a problem with, just like you said you had a problem with Shadow healing, and how you said it was a 4 ability class. I actually had the balls to say that Shadow my main played class needed a nerf, all I see you doing is denying things on the forums and trying to defend a class that should have been slightly nerfed in the defense department along side with Shadow.

 

Where's the full screen shot for this? I'd like to see buffs and things of the sort. the guy is sitting at 300 less str then me and 200 endurance. Also armor is determined off of armor raiting attached to the armoring so he most likely has some sort of buff applied giving him more armor.

Showing a cropped screen shot didn't prove anything, sitting in all 146 armorings i'm sitting at a little over 25% mitigation. So no... He's got some sort of buff on him that's either adding armor.

 

Something like this

http://www.torhead.com/ability/fT32OSN/reconstruct

 

or you ever stop to think he's sitting in shii-cho form? Bet you didn't.

I know it is shi-cho form, the fact is I said it I said I saw someone with 31.5% damage reduction. You said that was a lie... therefore you are wrong.

 

What dot isn't removable??? please tell me.

Umm, the force one... only removable by a special Sage ability, nothing else removes it (FS does not remove it as you stated before). DUH? (2/3 WRONG)

 

I was told how it worked by someone else muh bad i was wrong. oh well.

(3/3 WRONG)

why would i bother looking?

Cause you play the class and you should know.

 

Who is the one crying for nerfs? Not me. Oh boo hoo hoo marauders can get the same armor as assassins for up to 50% of the time.

 

Dug yourself a deeper hole, first of all I am not crying for a nerf, my original post in this thread was stating I was fine with the Shadow nerfs, and that I was pointing out that post 1.3 Marauders will be able to have within 4% of damage reduction of a TANK shadow. (4 WRONG) (Go back and check the post yourself)

Also: Same armor as assasins for up to 50% of the time? it is actually going to be 16% more than a shadow for 50%+ of the time. (5 WRONG)

 

Fact is, I am not crying for nerfs, I was happy with the Shadow nerfs and actually made posts on the forums detailing why I knew it needed to be nerfed. You spend your time in threads trying to defend a class that so obviously has too much defense for a DPS class. I'm not calling for a nerf of Marauder, I was pointing out a problem I had with the class... I will go back into the game dominating Marauders like I always have, even with the nerf, especially if I face bads that don't know their class like you.

 

1 wrong? nah... 5 points you have made that are obviously wrong.

Credibility in this thread has just nosedived for you, get out and go learn your class instead of being a bad on the forums.

 

I believe my destruction is done here, farewell good sir.

Cif

Edited June 9, 2012 by HyperThomas

[Superawesomerman]

Thank you for bolstering the argument that healing spec sages are not viable in PVP. I accept your apology.

 

/sigh

no prob, bro.

[Xerain]

Not crying for nerfs, simply stating the facts, I pointed out one thing that i had a problem with, just like you said you had a problem with Shadow healing, and how you said it was a 4 ability class. I actually had the balls to say that Shadow my main played class needed a nerf, all I see you doing is denying things on the forums and trying to defend a class that should have been slightly nerfed in the defense department along side with Shadow.

 

You're sitting here posting "OH LOOK WHAT THEY CAN DO I WANT TO DO THAT OR THEM NOT TO DO THAT!!!" That's crying for nerfs.

 

It's not a problem just seemed a bit ridic for a tank class but it's whatever, i think shadows are in a good place and don't need nerfed at all, more like their other specs need to be made viable for pvp.

 

3 buttons really.

 

And shadow doesn't need a nerf, those nerfs are goign to ruin their tanking for pve as they're going to be FAR too squishy with nothing to make up for it now, they're not getting anything to fill in the gap for the area of pve. Not that I care about that but I just hate to see stupid crap happen because of some crying female dog pvp'ers like yourself.

 

I know it is shi-cho form, the fact is I said it I said I saw someone with 31.5% damage reduction. You said that was a lie... therefore you are wrong.

 

I said from armor and you stated from armor.

 

 

Umm, the force one... only removable by a special Sage ability, nothing else removes it (FS does not remove it as you stated before). DUH? (2/3 WRONG)

 

Bleeds are a physical effect, what force dot do we have? Overload saber is a force ability that applies a physical bleed effect on the target and rupture... well i'll let you look at that

 

 

(3/3 WRONG)

 

What? Sorry i was wrong, oh well get over it.

 

Cause you play the class and you should know.

 

Eh not worried.

 

 

Dug yourself a deeper hole, first of all I am not crying for a nerf, my original post in this thread was stating I was fine with the Shadow nerfs, and that I was pointing out that post 1.3 Marauders will be able to have within 4% of damage reduction of a TANK shadow. (4 WRONG) (Go back and check the post yourself)

Also: Same armor as assasins for up to 50% of the time? it is actually going to be 16% more than a shadow for 50%+ of the time. (5 WRONG)

 

Yes you are, you're sitting here going "oh look what they can do and i'm getting nerfed!!!" If you think rebuke/cop is up 50% of the time you have no clue about how the class plays then because it never is, the longest duration i get out of it is if i'm carrying the ball in huttball and i have a good healer on me.

 

You know me from PN obviously, I don't pug pvp, so a dot isn't going to be sticking in rated pvp and keep the ability up 50% of the time anyways.

 

Oh and the talent to lower the CD on it with riposte is crap. Points are better spent somewhere else.

 

Fact is, I am not crying for nerfs, I was happy with the Shadow nerfs and actually made posts on the forums detailing why I knew it needed to be nerfed. You spend your time in threads trying to defend a class that so obviously has too much defense for a DPS class. I'm not calling for a nerf of Marauder, I was pointing out a problem I had with the class... I will go back into the game dominating Marauders like I always have, even with the nerf, especially if I face bads that don't know their class like you.

 

Yeah happy your class got nerfed because? Your most viable spec is going to be how good post 1.3? Marauder is a dps class with too much defense, then shadow is a tank class with too much offense?

 

I have a problem with powertechs being able to put out such scary amount damage so fast but i don't go run around and tell everyone that it needs nerfed because it doesn't. PT's have their weakness and and it makes it perfectly worth the damage they put out, just like carnage marauder. Awesome burst - Lowered survivability.

 

You must remember who i am from PN for some reason, probably because I ripped your face off over and over again like I do to everyone else on that scrub server.

 

1 wrong? nah... 5 points you have made that are obviously wrong.

 

What 5?

 

Credibility in this thread has just nosedived for you, get out and go learn your class instead of being a bad on the forums.

 

I believe my destruction is done here, farewell good sir.

Cif

 

I know my class hence why i don't think anyone needs nerfed. It's other people like you who don't know how to play against other classes properly that cry nerf. (cept for merc dps, they don't currently count as they're pretty screwed)

[Chemic_al]

I know my class hence why i don't think anyone needs nerfed. It's other people like you who don't know how to play against other classes properly that cry nerf. (cept for merc dps, they don't currently count as they're pretty screwed)

 

Really? Such arrogance and assumption on your part, with flat denial of the fact that some classes (not just merc) are quite a bit weaker than others.

 

Mara - Medium Armour, High DPS, Good burst (better in some specs than others but good), 4 Defensive Cooldowns, Sabre Ward, Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage and Force Camo - Stupidly high survivability.

 

Let's compare that to say, a sorceror.

 

Sorc - Light Armour, Good DPS but no burst, 0 Defensive Cooldowns with a lousy bubble that stops one hit - Poor Survivability.

 

A Sorc has nothing other than bubble to mitigate damage, got no way of escaping combat, has to rely on kiting which is pointless because a good mara has too many gap closers and snares to ever let one get away.

 

Hell, even a madness sorcs dots hit for far less than a mara's, and a mara can get them to all auto-crit. Ravage made immune to interupt so pretty much anyone has to eat 2 hits of it.

 

Oh and let's see, as if that wasn't enough, give them a 30m leap that also roots and interupts. Hmm. All this for mashing one button, all the while knowing the person has to eat two hits of ravage.

 

It's a bad joke, *** really is.

 

I've yet to see one plausible reason why a mara even needs GBTF or Force Camo, and if anything by way of class design, they shouldn't even be on the class - they are typically given to classes that are squishy and actually need defence (you know like a sorc?). A mara's high offence is their defence already. There is nothing "L2P" when talking about some matchups, it is clearly totally stacked, and yet people here keep wanting their OP class left alone as if there's nothing wrong. Sure, I can understand that, but it ruins the game in the long run.

 

Sins got the nerf, (albeit in a totally stupid way, but they needed one), and Maras need one too. You cannot defend such class imbalance if you're actually being objective.

 

So yeah take GBTF and Force Camo away from Mara's. Give them to sorcs. Let's, speaking hypothetically, say this actually happens. How long before all those FoTM maras that rely on these totally OP abilities to actually be any good, start calling for a nerf. Hmm? Now the problem isn't the poor players, it's the good ones that can take such an amazingly good skillset and totally own with it.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Chemic_al

[HyperThomas]

I know my class hence why i don't think anyone needs nerfed. It's other people like you who don't know how to play against other classes properly that cry nerf. (cept for merc dps, they don't currently count as they're pretty screwed)

 

Well at the end of the day I don't really mind the Shadow nerfs, I know something needed to be done and stated on the forums something needed to be done. I do agree, the nerf for Shadow tank should have been their damage rather than their defense, but we cannot help that, BW was nerfing all tanks, not just Shadow Tank.

I only ever saw you once on PNW, when you got top damage in my first ever Novare Coast just after 1.2 and just before I left that failure server. Made me think you were decent. I know realise and have proven you don't know many aspects of your class, from DOTs to Rebuke to Damage Reduction. Ask any decent Marauder in that s**t hole, they will tell you one DOT can only be removed by a special Sage/Sorc ability. You got Rebuke wrong, thanks for admitting. Damage reduction, not once did you or I refer to armor rating being the cause, don't try that lie son.

There 3/3 wrong, please learn your class.

I still haven't cried for a nerf, I have only constructively stated why I believe Sentinel should have been lightly nerfed with Shadow. What have you done? Fed us BS information about your class because you got no idea about it.

Kudos to you sir. Nice try... I will give you that.

[Legelas]

I know my class hence why i don't think anyone needs nerfed. It's other people like you who don't know how to play against other classes properly that cry nerf. (cept for merc dps, they don't currently count as they're pretty screwed)

 

You are so arrogant it isn't even funny. He has proven you wrong, you were wrong about your own class, you expect anyone to take you seriously about your opinions, grow up, you are the bad here.

[Adzzy]

Well at the end of the day I don't really mind the Shadow nerfs, I know something needed to be done and stated on the forums something needed to be done. I do agree, the nerf for Shadow tank should have been their damage rather than their defense, but we cannot help that, BW was nerfing all tanks, not just Shadow Tank.

 

First they decided to increase raid difficulty by making it so healers cant heal.

 

Now they've decided to try and make it so tanks cant tank

 

You know what comes next dont you?

 

And in the meantime, the pvp community dies because at the end of the day its a pve game, and pvp has been such an afterthought it's painful, sad considering how fun and balanced 1.1 was (the agent classes needed some improvement, but the rest were all there or thereabouts).

 

I do wonder if the devs believe in trickle down though, as they seem to have decided some time back to give the players what the devs want to give them rather than what the players wanted.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Adzzy

[Xerain]

Well at the end of the day I don't really mind the Shadow nerfs, I know something needed to be done and stated on the forums something needed to be done. I do agree, the nerf for Shadow tank should have been their damage rather than their defense, but we cannot help that, BW was nerfing all tanks, not just Shadow Tank.

I only ever saw you once on PNW, when you got top damage in my first ever Novare Coast just after 1.2 and just before I left that failure server. Made me think you were decent. I know realise and have proven you don't know many aspects of your class, from DOTs to Rebuke to Damage Reduction. Ask any decent Marauder in that s**t hole, they will tell you one DOT can only be removed by a special Sage/Sorc ability. You got Rebuke wrong, thanks for admitting. Damage reduction, not once did you or I refer to armor rating being the cause, don't try that lie son.

There 3/3 wrong, please learn your class.

I still haven't cried for a nerf, I have only constructively stated why I believe Sentinel should have been lightly nerfed with Shadow. What have you done? Fed us BS information about your class because you got no idea about it.

Kudos to you sir. Nice try... I will give you that.

 

No all our dots can be removed by all the healers. Hence why cleanse is such a pain. All healers have the ability, go ask your healers, go test it out with the healers.

 

We've been talking armor here and you've been comparing annihilation marauder to tankasin. You know how much sitting in shi-cho form as an annihilation marauder would hurt you? 10% melee damage and 15% dot crit... great idea there! Annihilation marauder is not getting 30% damage reduction passively so stop trying to talk about things that dont' apply to specs. "Thier dots crit so hard and they do 5k smashes and have 3 roots!!!"....

[HyperThomas]

First they decided to increase raid difficulty by making it so healers cant heal.

 

Now they've decided to try and make it so tanks cant tank

 

You know what comes next dont you?

 

And in the meantime, the pvp community dies because at the end of the day its a pve game, and pvp has been such an afterthought it's painful, sad considering how fun and balanced 1.1 was (the agent classes needed some improvement, but the rest were all there or thereabouts).

 

I do wonder if the devs believe in trickle down though, as they seem to have decided some time back to give the players what the devs want to give them rather than what the players wanted.

 

Shadow nerf should have been their damage, but it wasn't, because BW wanted to nerf all tanks... bad move, but atleast is balances us Shadows a bit. Now we need to balance DPS with too much defense.

I have played GW2 Beta, the balance is so good already, they actually treat the PvP in the game totally separate from PvE, because of their unique combat system, PvE doesn't interfere with PvP when one or the other needs balancing. Unless BW takes pvp in this game a little more seriously, I am gonna leave... no that is not a threat, just stating this to warn them that they don't give PvP enough attention.

[AKfourtyseven]

Considering the changes to tanks and more specifically the nerfs to the damage output of guardian/jugg- there is no way that marauder/sent is going to escape a nerf when the next pass comes.

 

If a tank spec assassin was deemed to live too long (wrong) and tank spec jugg deemed to do too much damage (wrong again) then its fairly obvious marauders have an impending adjustment to their cooldowns coming.

Edited June 9, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[HyperThomas]

No all our dots can be removed by all the healers. Hence why cleanse is such a pain. All healers have the ability, go ask your healers, go test it out with the healers.

 

We've been talking armor here and you've been comparing annihilation marauder to tankasin. You know how much sitting in shi-cho form as an annihilation marauder would hurt you? 10% melee damage and 15% dot crit... great idea there! Annihilation marauder is not getting 30% damage reduction passively so stop trying to talk about things that dont' apply to specs. "Thier dots crit so hard and they do 5k smashes and have 3 roots!!!"....

 

No they cannot, your arrogance is still showing, only a Sage can remove one of your unique DOTs... and FS cannot remove it like you said. You were WRONG? YEAH.

Tankasin and Marauder, not Annihilation... I never stated that...

...Still making up crap to cover up how wrong you were about your own class.

 

Ima let you think about this overnight:

Post 1.3:

Marauders, a DPS class with the best defensive CDs in the game.

Tank Assasins, a Tank class with the best DPS for a tank in game.

 

Tank Assasins, nerfed in defense, that was a wrong move, but no-one really cares, I will still dominate because of the OP damage I can do as a tank.

That means Marauder is gonna get nerfed in the DPS, that is NOT what is needed, it is the over the top defensive CDs and overall defense of a marauder that needs nerfing. They will still own even with a DPS nerf because of the defense.

See what I am getting at? They have made a mistake with nerfing shadows the wrong way, and therefore Marauders are next because no-one at BW knows how to manage PvP balance.

 

Say marauder DPS was nerfed this patch...

We would have Shadows still dominating because of massive DPS.

We would have Marauders dominating because of massive defense for a DPS class.

 

The real way to have fixed class balance is:

Nerf Shadow damage.

Nerf Marauder defense.

 

Here is why: Now we are gonna end up with:

Shadow a tank class with less defense than a Marauder (DPS).

Marauder a DPS class with less damage than a Shadow (tank).

See what I mean? That is why I am calling for a nerf to defense of Marauder in a constructive and clear way, so they do not get it wrong when it comes the time to nerf them.

 

Marauder and Shadow are still gonna dominate everywhere because Shadow was not nerfed correctly, and Marauder will not be nerfed correctly.

 

Once again, you were still wrong about your own class. Everyone reading this knows, live with the fact.

Edited June 9, 2012 by HyperThomas

[Xerain]

Really? Such arrogance and assumption on your part, with flat denial of the fact that some classes (not just merc) are quite a bit weaker than others.

 

Like who? Maybe stabby ops but that's it and they can still rock someone right out of stealth helping the team. If they rock a healer right out of stealth while he's trying to keep someone up then they picked a great time to help the rest of the team.

 

Mara - Medium Armour, High DPS, Good burst (better in some specs than others but good), 4 Defensive Cooldowns, Sabre Ward, Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage and Force Camo - Stupidly high survivability.

 

Let's compare that to say, a sorceror.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

Sorc - Light Armour, Good DPS but no burst, 0 Defensive Cooldowns with a lousy bubble that stops one hit - Poor Survivability.

 

A Sorc has nothing other than bubble to mitigate damage, got no way of escaping combat, has to rely on kiting which is pointless because a good mara has too many gap closers and snares to ever let one get away.

 

Sorc has a 30m range with a channeled attack that has a snare on it that can be talented to be spammable.

 

The best marauder spec has one gap closer. Sure you can use camo to close a gap but i can also use charge to get out of focus fire but that fact doesn't make charge a defensive cooldown now.

 

Hell, even a madness sorcs dots hit for far less than a mara's, and a mara can get them to all auto-crit. Ravage made immune to interupt so pretty much anyone has to eat 2 hits of it.

 

Oh and let's see, as if that wasn't enough, give them a 30m leap that also roots and interupts. Hmm. All this for mashing one button, all the while knowing the person has to eat two hits of ravage.

 

Pretty sure 30m charge is a standard for the warrior archtype in MMO's.

 

If you're playing smart you should be able to avoid ravage completely.

 

It's a bad joke, *** really is.

 

I've yet to see one plausible reason why a mara even needs GBTF or Force Camo, and if anything by way of class design, they shouldn't even be on the class - they are typically given to classes that are squishy and actually need defence (you know like a sorc?). A mara's high offence is their defence already. There is nothing "L2P" when talking about some matchups, it is clearly totally stacked, and yet people here keep wanting their OP class left alone as if there's nothing wrong. Sure, I can understand that, but it ruins the game in the long run.

 

Force camo is an aggro drop? GBTF is like a mara/sent version of a stun is the best way to put it.

 

No it's a l2p issue when there are videos that have been posted on these forums of madness sorcs dominating sent/maras in 1v1... good thing this game isn't based around 1v1 so stop the QQ on it.

 

Sins got the nerf, (albeit in a totally stupid way, but they needed one), and Maras need one too. You cannot defend such class imbalance if you're actually being objective.

 

So yeah take GBTF and Force Camo away from Mara's. Give them to sorcs. Let's, speaking hypothetically, say this actually happens. How long before all those FoTM maras that rely on these totally OP abilities to actually be any good, start calling for a nerf. Hmm? Now the problem isn't the poor players, it's the good ones that can take such an amazingly good skillset and totally own with it.

 

LOL give sorcs camo and UD... you're joking right. Give me 30m range on all my attacks then.

 

No they cannot, your arrogance is still showing, only a Sage can remove one of your unique DOTs... and FS cannot remove it like you said. You were WRONG? YEAH.

Tankasin and Marauder, not Annihilation... I never stated that...

...Still making up crap to cover up how wrong you were about your own class.

 

Go ask in general chat on the server you're on.

 

Ima let you think about this overnight:

Post 1.3:

Marauders, a DPS class with the best defensive CDs in the game.

Tank Assasins, a Tank class with the best DPS for a tank in game.

 

 

Tank Assasins, nerfed in defense, that was a wrong move, but no-one really cares, I will still dominate because of the OP damage I can do as a tank.

 

Yeah you're not going to live as long so your damage isn't going to be as good specially against good players that know how to negate your healing.

 

That means Marauder is gonna get nerfed in the DPS, that is NOT what is needed, it is the over the top defensive CDs and overall defense of a marauder that needs nerfing. They will still own even with a DPS nerf because of the defense.

See what I am getting at? They have made a mistake with nerfing shadows the wrong way, and therefore Marauders are next because no-one at BW knows how to manage PvP balance.

 

Of course we're going to get nerfed because of all these other stupid nerfs that never should of allowed to happen because of QQ like this whole thread. Class balance is pretty good and if you can't tell that then you're being blind or your information is skewed because you only pug or you think it's all about the 1v1. Not enough of the QQ'ers on the forums here take this as a team game.

 

Say marauder DPS was nerfed this patch...

We would have Shadows still dominating because of massive DPS.

We would have Marauders dominating because of massive defense for a DPS class.

 

The real way to have fixed class balance is:

Nerf Shadow damage.

Nerf Marauder defense.

 

Here is why: Now we are gonna end up with:

Shadow a tank class with less defense than a Marauder (DPS).

Marauder a DPS class with less damage than a Shadow (tank).

See what I mean? That is why I am calling for a nerf to defense of Marauder in a constructive and clear way, so they do not get it wrong when it comes the time to nerf them.

 

Well taking away cooldowns or adding time onto them isn't going to help much, in a team setting i rarely ever blow UD and COP never gets the full uptime because I either die or the target i was attacking that was attacking me back died and the buff dropped.

 

Marauder and Shadow are still gonna dominate everywhere because Shadow was not nerfed correctly, and Marauder will not be nerfed correctly.

 

I think shadows are going to be much squishier then they previously were and the nerf was stupid and a bit over the top for both pve and pvp.

 

Once again, you were still wrong about your own class. Everyone reading this knows, live with the fact.

 

 

NOPE. not wrong.

[Chemic_al]

Nope Xerain, you already have an AOE mez and rage building Force Choke,

 

And whilst you may need an aggro drop, force camo has to be the stupidest way of doing it. And you know full well, that it's used for alot of other things too.

 

As for GBTF, meh, like a stun you say, except a stun only hits one person and fills resolve, whilst GBTF means you can suck up the DPS of everyone for 5 secs and not build resolve. So, if you want to equate it to a stun, you get way more utility out of it....

 

So yet again, I think you are basically saying, there's no reason for you to have those abilities and they are inherently strong for a high DPS class.....

 

And no, I'm not joking about giving them to sorcs, they actually need them. You have force leap to get to melee distance, and spammable snares. KB you say? Well your leap is on shorter CD than any KB.... so yeah. And way to prove my point, you want to keep your OP toys.

 

Nicely done

Edited June 9, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Astarica]

Shadow nerf should have been their damage, but it wasn't, because BW wanted to nerf all tanks... bad move, but atleast is balances us Shadows a bit. Now we need to balance DPS with too much defense.

I have played GW2 Beta, the balance is so good already, they actually treat the PvP in the game totally separate from PvE, because of their unique combat system, PvE doesn't interfere with PvP when one or the other needs balancing. Unless BW takes pvp in this game a little more seriously, I am gonna leave... no that is not a threat, just stating this to warn them that they don't give PvP enough attention.

 

Taunt does different things in PvP compared to PvE.

 

EQ2 has abilites that do totally different things in PvP versus PvE but it didn't make the PvP any better. The capability to pull this off is rather simple, but just because the capability exists doesn't mean you're any more likely to get the balance right.

 

For example you could do the Tankasin armor nerf and not affect PvE by making say all players now have 10% more armor penetration versus any character in Dark Charge. This would not touch the PvE aspect (leave armor the same) while lowering Tankasin armor for PvP. However, there is absolutely no reason to believe this solution I just made up is any better than whatever they're doing. It might even be worse. People like to say how PvP influences PvE or vice versa and while that's certainly true at some level, there's just no guaranateed that even if PvP has nothing to do with PvE, you'd have a system that's any better. You can still totally screw up PvP even when you're not concerned iwth PvE in any way.

[Tickboom]

While sentinels could use a tad bit of tweaking on their defensive CDs, the real problem is peoples lack of understanding of how the CDs work.

Guarded by the Force IS preventable, just dont needlessly hand the sent/mara a full resolve bar and either stun the mara/sent during the CD or stun right before when your confident you can line up a killshot. Takes 50% of the sentinels CUURENT hp to activate for a 99% damage reduction.

Rebuke - Lasts 6 seconds if you dont attack me. 20% dmg reduction and lasts up to 30secs, refreshed to full duration on being attacked. (I know its harder than it sounds)

Saber Ward - Standard D CD.. nothing special here.

Force Camo- Really the only thing this thing could use is possibly a longer CD. 45s Currently(1min 30s/2mins?)

 

And backpeddling... thats responsible for more of my kills then anything else. Why people think backpeddling away from me will somehow help at all is beyond me. Any talented rdps class that knows how to KITE PROPERLY gives me trouble if they arent terribly undergeared.

[Astarica]

While sentinels could use a tad bit of tweaking on their defensive CDs, the real problem is peoples lack of understanding of how the CDs work.

Guarded by the Force IS preventable, just dont needlessly hand the sent/mara a full resolve bar and either stun the mara/sent during the CD or stun right before when your confident you can line up a killshot. Takes 50% of the sentinels CUURENT hp to activate for a 99% damage reduction.

Rebuke - Lasts 6 seconds if you dont attack me. 20% dmg reduction and lasts up to 30secs, refreshed to full duration on being attacked. (I know its harder than it sounds)

Saber Ward - Standard D CD.. nothing special here.

Force Camo- Really the only thing this thing could use is possibly a longer CD. 45s Currently(1min 30s/2mins?)

 

And backpeddling... thats responsible for more of my kills then anything else. Why people think backpeddling away from me will somehow help at all is beyond me. Any talented rdps class that knows how to KITE PROPERLY gives me trouble if they arent terribly undergeared.

 

Not attacking for 6s usually costs you more DPS than just powering through the Rebuke, and there's no guaranteed anyone else wouldn't just refresh the duration with some kind of AE, or even a dot. Rebuke basically has no counter. It must be powered through in any realistic situation and while some classes can pull this off, most classes cannot.

 

Not all rdps have great kiting abilities. Arsenal Merc only have one good knockback. The rocket punch one will barely you knock you further than 4m and they don't have a reliable snare. Kiting a Marauder is very hard. I've said that just because it's hard doesn't mean you face tank the Marauder, but stop pretending it's easy. Quite a few classes have a very hard time establishing any kind of distance between themselves and the Marauder.

[Legelas]

LOL give sorcs camo and UD... you're joking right. Give me 30m range on all my attacks then.

 

NOPE. not wrong.

@ blind arrogance... How are you not wrong?

Hyper is right, one of our DOTs is only removable by a Sage/Sorc ability.

You were wrong about Rebuke I tested it too, directly adds 20% to my 32% damage reduction.

And yeah I have 32% damage reduction in full WH, which you said was a lie... so wrong.

So yeah you were wrong. Just please go, no-one reading this takes you seriously anymore.

At least I know my class... can't wait until we are inevitably nerfed, you clearly have no idea.

 

I am glad we have people with common sense asking for nerfs in the right way rather than blindly calling something OP. Full credit go to those people (not arrogant people like you), especially the ones that accept their class being nerfed, don't see that very often.

[Astarica]

The problem with mitigation effects is that most people don't realize it's additive instead of multiplicative. That is, if an ability says 'reduce damage by 20%' you'd think it takes whatever damage you take and subtract 20% from it, but that's not how it works. If your base mitigatio is 30%, rebuke adds 20% to it and gets you 50%. You're going from taking 0.7X to 0.5X damage, which is a 29% damage reduction compared to what you're taking before.

 

This is why Rebuke is probably overpowered. If it applied its effect multiplicatively, it wouldn't be so bad.