AlyxDinas Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Try 31 and a professional game designer. Professional implies that it actually is your profession, Henry. You haven't been a professionally hired designer for a gaming company for half a decade since you moved to the education field and when you were it was for a Phoenix based company that apparently has no website and whose largest IP they worked on was My Little Pony, if I recall correctly. And you worked there for a year. Edited June 7, 2012 by AlyxDinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 RANDLE... That idea isn't bad... I don't even think it's necessary but I would take it just to maybe get 10 more percent of the population talking about something else. Agreed, but the 10% on the L2P side would be replaced by the 10% L2P from the Mar/Sen rerollers.... Even with that type of CD change, I would still run away from you though (unless I was defending). Good thing this isn't Arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Trolololololol Lol. Sadly, the only cure for the sting of butthurt is to cauterize the wound with burning embers of IRRATIONAL HATRED VLARGARAGARAGARAGARG. Edited June 7, 2012 by Superawesomerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) No I meant blackout because I was using it as an example from the other classes I listed. Marauders force cloak, although lasts for a max of 6 seconds doesn't break on dot damage, or randomly drop them out of stealth after 1 second like ops/scound assassins/shadows. Only someone lucky enough to hit them with an AE direct damage will break it early. You did noting to justify why the defensive cool down are as powerfull as they are. If anything you explained why every class should have the same exact defensive cool downs. Your first paragraph has to be a joke, you cannot believe that Mara/sent's absurdly powerful defensive cool downs are warranted because you are "squishy". All melee classes defensive cool downs should be no better and no worse then any other melee classes defensive cool downs. Err.. squishiness has a lot to do with it compared to other classes that need melee range (do you not understand that melees will always draw more focus fire, more likely to be hit by AoE damage/more likely to get both targeted taunted as well as AoE taunted/most likely to be recipients of anything to prevent functionality be it CC, stuns, knockbacks, slows or roots - and they suffer from all of this far more than ranged classes. Maras/Sents (annihilation being an exception to an extent only because they can force charge + off GCD deadly sabre to get their DoT's on quickly - but for many of their damage fillers + finishers, they're no exception) need to actually build up their rage before they can dish out their damage. Take away any of their activated defensives, and annihilation (currently) will be the only viable spec since it will at least get DoT's up on a single target before dying to anything with significant DPS. Maras/Sents lack a "hard stun" - they don't have anything that lets them dish out good dps on a target unable to defend itself (unless you're annihilation, have full DoT's on someone and use force choke - again, annihilation being the only exception) - which is the primary functional application of Undying Rage (yes, I'm aware it doesn't only affect one target, but it can be countered or bypassed altogether - both of which result in ). Also, if any of the marauder/sentinel defensive abilities are too powerful or on such quick cooldowns that they're OP'd... why is it that marauders die just as much if not more (typically more if you're carnage or rage) than everyone else on their team that doesn't have them? Not sure if you're one of the ones that said they have a lv. 50 mara, but I'd suggest you try playing it in a warzone without using any of its defensive abilities. You'll quickly understand that the class simply doesn't function without them. If you can name any class that would be as gimpy as a mara/sent without defensive cooldowns the way they currently are, then I'll gladly concede to your "superior wisdom". And why are you comparing blackout (which only gives stealth level increase for 2 of the 3 assassin specs and a force maintaing application if specced into for the last) to force camo in the first place? Assassins have shroud (best defensive IMO - particularly if you're tank-specced) + deflection (similar to our saber ward)\, stealth, combat stealth, at least 2 methods of "hard-stunning" (3 if you're deception), self-healing from 2 specs, force speed (which tankassin can spec it to break slows/roots and can also be reduced to a 20s cooldown), taunts (if you don't like that they don't directly affect you, pair up with another class that has them and enjoy chain taunts, or just stick with your group), slows, an AoE knockback, AoE damage and accuracy debuffs (if tank specced) - and yet you've chosen blackout to be the ability to compare with force camo? Sorry, but the best defensive abilities in the game right now are taunts (typically when you have multiple teammates that can throw them out - and they become rediculous when you have 4-5 classes that toss them out yet still dish out huge DPS). Edited June 7, 2012 by SinnedWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 How about 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) professional implies that it actually is your profession, henry. You haven't been a professionally hired designer for a gaming company for half a decade since you moved to the education field and when you were it was for a phoenix based company that apparently has no website and whose largest ip they worked on was my little pony, if i recall correctly. And you worked there for a year. epic!!! Edited June 7, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Agreed, but the 10% on the L2P side would be replaced by the 10% L2P from the Mar/Sen rerollers.... Even with that type of CD change, I would still run away from you though (unless I was defending). Good thing this isn't Arena. LMAO! Let em roll marauders and sentinels! I LOVE how many bad marauders there are in WZ's... it just further proves a point of a L2P issue. Of course it still doesn't help cuz they would blame it on gear and even if they had WH with augments there would be another excuse to follow. It's never ending... It;s like those people that blame lag every time they die on MW3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 1.1 watchman spec was way stronger ... 1.2 gear is ridiculously stronger. Guess which matters more! Obviously you don't know how expertise works at all, pre or post 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 LMAO! Let em roll marauders and sentinels! I LOVE how many bad marauders there are in WZ's... it just further proves a point of a L2P issue. Of course it still doesn't help cuz they would blame it on gear and even if they had WH with augments there would be another excuse to follow. It's never ending... It;s like those people that blame lag every time they die on MW3. I do enjoy facetanking the recruit geared rerollers. It makes up for the WH ones wrecking me. This is the attitude need to get to before they can understand it could be a L2P/Gear issue. I say it's a bit of all three. Out of all the WH ones, three are leet, two are great, one is good, rest are average like me, but UDR/GBF gives the average ones the "Big Joker" or "2 of diamonds/hearts" at the end of most encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 So wait? You're saying that a melee DPS SHOULD have a slightly higher DPS to compensate for the difficulty of staying on top of a target. A problem that ranged DPS doesn't have to deal with nearly as often. Well this is just mind blowing... Please only share logic on the forums in small doses... I'm not sure I can handle any more at this point. I didn't say anything of the sort, but feel free to continue putting words in my mouth to make your own argument seem stronger. If you would like compensation for the difficulty of staying on top of a target, choose your leap ability, a ridiculous number of interrupts for *********** with ranged chars, higher dps, heavier grade armor, or insane defensive cooldowns...not all five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) ... Okay hold on. First I am laying down a few facts, for one melee have to be compensated for the added difficulty of having to close and remain in melee range. No class that doesn't have to deal with that should be doing equal damage... Breaking news: operatives and assassins are also melee classes. Edited June 7, 2012 by matslarson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSideTOR Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Maras/Sents working as intended huh? Best defensive CDs, best DPS. I can already see ranked WZ premades... 4-5 Maras in WH gear, (3 of any healer) on any WZ map, you will not be able to kill their healers before the flying monkeys kill you and your healers will not be able to survive the onslaught.. Yes, working as intended, we all just have to L2p, cc GBTF and what other generic statements to defend their class am I forgetting? Oh yeah they're "squishy", can ONLY DPS, and they can't CC others... BW is in a rush to push out 1.3 to avoid losing more subscribers so I doubt they actually spent too much time reviewing class balance. There are barely any improvements for classes that need it (cough commandos cough) or nerfing those that are currently over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintiel Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Mara/Sent's giving you problems still? I think the real problem here is a lack of willingness to learn how to beat them. Maybe it's people throwing stuns at the wrong time. I can't say everyone plays the same, but here's a few easy things I do. Keep in mind I've barely played their class as I hate sitting in melee chasing people. Keep moving. I consider myself good at pvp but it's insanely difficult to keep a player locked in melee range. Even if they drop a slow on you, move. If you have to stop to cast, move cast, move again, cast. Just don't stand there and eat it cause that's the fastest way for a mara/sent to crank out the damage. Weave the crowds. Most of the time someone else's aoe stun or damage will hit/slow/disable the mara/sent if you move through a crowded area in pvp. Allies or enemies, it's hard to focus on a single target in a group of people with fighting going on all around. LoS still works on a mara/sent, especially if you get knocked back. This helps you avoid saber throws and charge. If they rush towards you, and they almost all will be running to get back into melee, set yourself up to sit in their dead zone where they cant charge and only have 2 ranged abilities. If you can survive one saber throw, chances are you're going to win. Save your stuns! One to get back out of their melee range, two for the pop of their 'last stand'. If you haven't used your stuns before, use them at about 25% then pile on the damage. Even if they break it, chances are they'll die from the minor ticks, and if their final stand ability isn't up well, you just won anyway. Good mara/sents probably know tricks to get around most of this stuff but then again most mara/senties are bad bad baddies. If you're a healer, this stuff probably isn't going to work for you, but your team should be drawing the maras off you anyway... sorry puggers. And if you're a true pvp tank well... you probably walk around with mara/sents nipping at your heels all day giggling and wondering why people are screaming for nerfs for these poor glow stick swingers that tickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I didn't say anything of the sort, but feel free to continue putting words in my mouth to make your own argument seem stronger. If you would like compensation for the difficulty of staying on top of a target, choose your leap ability, a ridiculous number of interrupts for *********** with ranged chars, higher dps, heavier grade armor, or insane defensive cooldowns...not all five. I actually completely misunderstood what you said then cuz I honestly thought I was agreeing with you. But 1 and a half is a ridiculous number? And I say half cuz force choke isn't really a an interrupt since it limits the marauder, but it comes in handy as an interrupt of course. And seriously... I would trade UR for a knockback or stun any day.... cuz if I don't get a heal in that 5 seconds I'm either dead or cloaked to run away and heal anyways. Personally I would rather have a stun or knockback for hte utility... especially for huttball. UR can come in handy around the goal line or when needing a few extra seconds to pass... but stuns and KB's def have more utility than UR. Of course... I think everyone can also agree that we don't need more stuns or KB's in this game. Edited June 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshadz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Maras/Sents working as intended huh? Best defensive CDs, best DPS. I can already see ranked WZ premades... 4-5 Maras in WH gear, (3 of any healer) on any WZ map, you will not be able to kill their healers before the flying monkeys kill you and your healers will not be able to survive the onslaught.. Yes, working as intended, we all just have to L2p, cc GBTF and what other generic statements to defend their class am I forgetting? Oh yeah they're "squishy", can ONLY DPS, and they can't CC others... ROFL that made my day I don't think much is needed to nerf them, BW; increase the cooldown on their defensive abilities! It is not normal that force camo is better than shadow/sins's vanish... I had to make a shadow to find out how force camo is just too good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Breaking news: operatives and assassins are also melee classes. Breaking news! Operatives and Assassins have many attacks that are 4m+ range and can spec for at least 1 with 30m range! Also they don't have to build resources and can front load burst much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ROFL that made my day I don't think much is needed to nerf them, BW; increase the cooldown on their defensive abilities! It is not normal that force camo is better than shadow/sins's vanish... I had to make a shadow to find out how force camo is just too good No it's not... I have a 50 assassin and camo is not better then a sins vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Obviously you don't know how expertise works at all, pre or post 1.2. You are incorrect, sir. Also, was not referring to expertise. WH sent gear is very well optimized, unlike some classes (cough scoundrel). since watchman triple dips on expertise and double dips on crit, and the majority of our accuracy was removed, the 1.2 patch was a gigantic gear upgrade for us, and as noted, we scale insanely with gear. I am very well aware that expertise was balanced to be zero sum in 1.2. Your grasp of the obvious could be a little tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You are incorrect, sir. Also, was not referring to expertise. WH sent gear is very well optimized, unlike some classes (cough scoundrel). since watchman triple dips on expertise and double dips on crit, and the majority of our accuracy was removed, the 1.2 patch was a gigantic gear upgrade for us, and as noted, we scale insanely with gear. I am very well aware that expertise was balanced to be zero sum in 1.2. Your grasp of the obvious could be a little tighter. You do know pre 1.2 a good marauder was using champ mods over BM mods right so your argument is invalid as you can itemize your gear to the way you want it. If you weren't doing that well then you're one of those bad mara/sents. So no there was no huge gear upgrade and insane dps upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshadz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 No it's not... I have a 50 assassin and camo is not better then a sins vanish. Force camo doesn't break on damage, vanish does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matslarson Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Xerain Marauder///Sentinel Port Nowhere///The Swiftsure My Current build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRrRMfsZuMM.1 I see where your totally unbiased argument is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Force camo doesn't break on damage, vanish does. Yeah this is true but camo lasts 4 seconds and they both can serve as target drops. You can get away much better with the vanish and go heal up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I see where your totally unbiased argument is coming from. cause i don't play other classes right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I didn't say anything of the sort, but feel free to continue putting words in my mouth to make your own argument seem stronger. If you would like compensation for the difficulty of staying on top of a target, choose your leap ability, a ridiculous number of interrupts for *********** with ranged chars, higher dps, heavier grade armor, or insane defensive cooldowns...not all five. Derp... can't use leap on anyone if rooted or it's on cooldown or if target is too close (as carnage - annihilation maras can reduce its minimum range, and rage can use obliterate for targets within 10m) we also can't always keep melee range against kiters that have slows when they aren't slowed or roots. Rediculous number of interrupts? What, all ONE of them that we have to be in melee range to use (but maybe you're counting force charge - which isn't an interrupt per say - I consider it to be a disrupt, and most classes have this capability with more than one method)? Seriously, how the hell does that make us shut down ranged classes (particularly if they use instant-cast abilities)? We have higher DPS than snipers/slingers or pryo p-techs/vg's? We have heavier grade armor compared to sage/sorc ONLY (which is covered up by their bubbles). Our cooldowns are bursty (and we're not the only ones with burst defensives) - stretch out the fight by kiting effectively and all we have left is undying rage (which you can LEARN TO BYPASS by saving your hard stuns for when we're ~30% health and follow it up with burst damage - 1 person of ANY class/spec can manage this - assassins/shadows, pyro p-techs/vg's can drop us from 40-50% health to dead before stun expires). UR is the most predictable defensive cooldown for when it gets applied - learn to bypass it completely if possible, or use any of the plethora of methods to counter maras/sents to avoid getting slammed while it's up for all 3 possible attacks they might manage to get off if you're facetanking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshadz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Yeah this is true but camo lasts 4 seconds and they both can serve as target drops. You can get away much better with the vanish and go heal up. In the heat of a battle (as in not in 1 vs 1 fights), force camo > vanish. Sins have to pray that vanish doesn't break too early. You can get healed while force camoed which is not the case with vanish unless you have masked assault from the infintration tree. Even if it lasts 4 secs, it's more than enough for marauders/sents to run away and get healed. I'm not saying that vanish is worthless but compared to force camo, it's weaker. cause i don't play other classes right? That doesn't make you unbiased. Edited June 7, 2012 by Darkshadz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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